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View Full Version : Springs, Springs, Springs.



Boostd4
07-22-2004, 12:20 PM
Ok, so I've been researching Evo suspension options for a couple of weeks, but I have yet to find "real world" opinions on normal lowering springs.

I found a great thread on spring rates and ride heights on EvoM...but by going through the threads I didn't really see any feedback from the occasional track/auto x guys.

Ultimately I want to go to a coilover setup, but just don't have the cash right now (plus there are other mods I need to do first). Given the cost of a set of springs, this seems like the best way to go for now. But, I want something that will still compliment the stock shocks. I do about 2 track days a year and 5-6 auto x events a year. My concern is still keeping a nice stiff suspension that won't decrease grip or handling. From what I've been reading the Tiens are on the top of my list right now.

Can anyone with any type of spring on stock shocks please leave some feedback on handling and overall feel?

DRFTR8
07-22-2004, 12:26 PM
Go get the tien S if you want the drop and the stock ride( slight stiffer) or get the tien H if you want a softer ride and slight high change

Boostd4
07-22-2004, 12:31 PM
Go get the tien S if you want the drop and the stock ride( slight stiffer) or get the tien H if you want a softer ride and slight high change

I definitely want to keep the stock ride, if not a little stiffer. But getting the center of gravity down is another concern.

What suspension setup are you running?

DRFTR8
07-22-2004, 12:40 PM
I have the Tien S and i like the ride and the way it looks...like i said B4 if you wanna check out my ride your welcome to check it out...

BluEvo
07-22-2004, 12:52 PM
i have the h-techs on the way, i'll let u know how they are after i get them installed and aligned.

Boostd4
07-22-2004, 01:22 PM
I have the Tien S and i like the ride and the way it looks...like i said B4 if you wanna check out my ride your welcome to check it out...


Yeah I'd definitely like to see what the drop looks like. 2" in front and 0.9 in the rear seemed kinda weird to me.

Whooopasss
07-22-2004, 01:36 PM
Tanabe for me.. looks ok.. ride is a little hard..

DRFTR8
07-22-2004, 01:46 PM
I have the Tien S and i like the ride and the way it looks...like i said B4 if you wanna check out my ride your welcome to check it out...


Yeah I'd definitely like to see what the drop looks like. 2" in front and 0.9 in the rear seemed kinda weird to me.

tell me when...and ill let you check it out...

chrisw
07-22-2004, 03:50 PM
save your money and go for coilovers.

EvoVIII
07-22-2004, 04:53 PM
I got a Coilover but I kinda retain the stock height, drop the front about 1inch, 0.6inch in the back, but looks way better then the Stock already, I don't want to drop too much coz it will get my CF Lip Scratched up easily, and ding my Carbon Ti exhaust in the back. just becareful after you lower ur car, and the ride is still a bit stiff even tho I got a EDFC...

PK@WORKS
07-22-2004, 05:42 PM
We would love to sell you our Ride Spings with our alignment recommendations (Stage I) but quite honestly I agree with saving your money and going with coilovers.

We have a demo set of Tein Flexes ($1400) which you can dial in at any height and we also have a variety of springs to suit your specific driving style. Throw in a WORKS rear swaybar and your up to a WORKS Stage III package!

Other than that, the WORKS Ride springs lower the front 30mm and the rear 20mm with 5% stiffer rate in the front and 10% stiffer in the rear compared to stock. Helps reduce the understeer.

Boostd4
07-22-2004, 10:10 PM
Well, the only reason why I'm considering a set of springs at this point is because they are going for less than $150 shipped (installing myself) and the alignment at my local shop is $69. This shop did the setup on my S2000 so I am definitely getting my moneys worth.

Trust me, I'd love to do coilovers now, but the funds are being used in other places right now (house and such).

I've only run static spring and shock combos on my other cars and I've had good luck with them so far. (CRX, Civic Hatch, RX-7,Integra, A4, S4, S2000) I do see the benefit of coilovers...but just can't afford it right now.

TSi_2_EVO
07-23-2004, 01:42 AM
i was wondering how a car with just springs and a good alignment handles compared to stock?

chrisw
07-23-2004, 07:54 AM
A good alignment definately helps.

But the problem is the valving the in the stock struts sucks... the higher spring rates only make the problem worse.

best solution is to be paitent and save for coilovers.

Boostd4
07-23-2004, 10:03 AM
A good alignment definately helps.

But the problem is the valving the in the stock struts sucks... the higher spring rates only make the problem worse.

best solution is to be paitent and save for coilovers.

Well..the spring rates aren't that much different (180lbs front stock vs. 196lbs Tien Front and 225lbs rear stock vs. 268lbs rear Tien) so the ride should be ok and the drop in front is only 1.4" and 0.3" in the rear.

chrisw
07-23-2004, 11:12 AM
fine what ever....

you still don't solve the fundemental problem. That is, the valving in the stock struts sucks.... By lowering the car you will make the already crappy struts work harder and fail sooner than later. Try this before doing springs. With the car settled, try to get a look at the bumpstop. At the stock ride height, you only have about 1.5" between the end of the bump stop and the sleeve for the insert. That's only 1.5" inches of travel before you start hitting the bump stop. When your at full body lean (easy to do with the stock struts) your already riding the bump stops. Even if you up the spring rates and lower the car and cut the bump stops, you still have the same problem. If you eliminate the bumpstop altogether, you bottom out the strut causing it to fail prematurely.

In the end, do what ever you want. IMHO, your best bet is to save your money and wait for coilovers. I came so close on so many different times to buying a set of springs, but I held back for the coilovers. It's was well worth the wait.

EvoVIII
07-23-2004, 11:16 AM
just let it be, if he want to lower the car so bad, he could do it, but I think Tein have engineer the spring to a certain level and met many critical area b4 releasing their product.

Boostd4
07-23-2004, 02:23 PM
fine what ever....

you still don't solve the fundemental problem. That is, the valving in the stock struts sucks.... By lowering the car you will make the already crappy struts work harder and fail sooner than later. Try this before doing springs. With the car settled, try to get a look at the bumpstop. At the stock ride height, you only have about 1.5" between the end of the bump stop and the sleeve for the insert. That's only 1.5" inches of travel before you start hitting the bump stop. When your at full body lean (easy to do with the stock struts) your already riding the bump stops. Even if you up the spring rates and lower the car and cut the bump stops, you still have the same problem. If you eliminate the bumpstop altogether, you bottom out the strut causing it to fail prematurely.

In the end, do what ever you want. IMHO, your best bet is to save your money and wait for coilovers. I came so close on so many different times to buying a set of springs, but I held back for the coilovers. It's was well worth the wait.

I'm not arguing with you on this point..I completely agree that coilovers far outperform spring and shock combos...but the fact of the matter is I am at least 6 months (if not longer) from getting the coilovers. i remember chatting with you in the Gruppe-S parking lot about your Ohlins.

You mentioned above that the overall effect of upping the spring rates and shaving the bump stops would = the same problem with suspension travel. If the overall suspension performance is close to stock but the center of gravity is a little lower...then I will have acheived my short term goal. I'm not going to lie, I'd like to see those wheel gaps disappear as well.

If the stock shocks are so crappy, they will wear out regardless of whether or not I put the springs on. Given the spring rates of the Tiens I'm considering, they are less than 5% stiffer than stock. I'd say that this wouldn't dramatically effect their lifespan by much.

I've run several different spring/shock combos in the past, both with stock shocks and aftermarket shocks. With my research and actual track time on these setups I have yet to lose a shock due to bottoming out or other related issues.

Like I said before...throwing down $120 for a set of springs doesn't seem like a huge investment to me at all. Compared to $1600 for a decent coilover setup, I'd say that I'm still in good shape if I don't save that $120.

Bottom line is that I've spoken with several guys from this board that have the Tiens and they are happy with them. I ONLY started this thread to get feedback as to their performance. If I got feedback that "they sucked" or "the car handled like crap" then I would definitely wait. Based on the conversations that I've had from here and EvoM I have yet to run into anyone that isn't happy with them. For $120, I don't think I can go wrong.

In the end it is my car...don't take it so personally. :D

chrisw
07-23-2004, 03:39 PM
FWIW, I waited 6 months before getting my Ohlins. Trust me it's worth the wait.

and I am not trying to make it personal, just trying to prevent you from wasting valuble mod money. :)

Are you talking about the Tein S-Tech springs? I found a thread on Evom that didn't paint a pretty picture... I'll see if I can find it for ya.

chrisw
07-23-2004, 03:45 PM
here's one... read "evoD" responses...

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=59183&highlight=Tein+tech

hellz Evo
07-23-2004, 04:05 PM
Hi guys,
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Bringing performance to the street while maximizing ride comfort was the goal of the Sustec Pro S-0C. For those who desire performance, comfort, and the overall benefits of coil over suspensions at an affordable value, we are now offering the S-0C Type II without helper springs
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fr-1/4~-2 1/4in /rr -1/4~-2in
TSC072X
MSRP $850.00

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Boostd4
07-24-2004, 01:01 PM
Are you talking about the Tein S-Tech springs? I found a thread on Evom that didn't paint a pretty picture... I'll see if I can find it for ya.

Thanks for the links. I'm actually looking at the H Tech springs. The S Techs seem to be a little too agressive in terms of the drop for the stock shocks. I know the difference isn't that dramatic, but I would like to stiffen up the ride a little and reduce some of the body roll. I'm planning to put a rear sway on at the same time.

chrisw
07-25-2004, 09:47 PM
another good reason not to get springs

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=88657&page=1&pp=15

MarkSAE
07-27-2004, 05:42 AM
I've had my eibach prokits for the past 3k miles and I don't have any problems w/ bottoming out. I just followed the instructions and didn't cut my bump stops. I live in the city and drive over sh!tty roads all the time.

I got my car aligned by Motorsport Techniques right after the install. Although I haven't tracked or auto-x'd my car yet, I can say that it didn't feel like I sacrificed any handling for the slightly lower ride height. In fact, my car feels like it's slaloms better.

The good thing about the eibach prokits is that it kept my car level. It lowered the car about 1.2" F/R. A lot of the lowering springs out there seem to lower the fronts more than the rear.

Why are the stock shocks so sh!tty? They seem to good enough to make our cars handle so well in stock form. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing out their stock shocks w/ lowering springs so that claim has yet to be proven. This seems to be yet another misconception of "stock sucks" when in fact is doesn't.

I have coilovers on my GSX and never use all that adjustability. Having all that adjustability can be a blessing and a curse.

Boostd4
07-27-2004, 08:35 AM
Why are the stock shocks so sh!tty? They seem to good enough to make our cars handle so well in stock form. I have yet to hear of anyone blowing out their stock shocks w/ lowering springs so that claim has yet to be proven. This seems to be yet another misconception of "stock sucks" when in fact is doesn't.


This seems to be a common misconception. I was running a fairly agressive spring on my stock S2000 shocks. I had 3+ auto-x days and two track days on that setup...no signs of any problems. I think the main issue is putting too high of a spring rate on a stock shock, thus creating that "bouncy" effect. Honestly a lot of it is just people's opinions, and they don't necessarily have hard evidence to prove what it is that they are claiming.

Boostd4
08-06-2004, 02:20 PM
Thought I'd post some after pics...

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/boostd4/evodrop1.jpg
http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/boostd4/evodrop2.jpg

ace33joe
08-06-2004, 02:32 PM
^ Congratulations, you installed them at last.
It looks better than stock! I hope your car handles better, and you have more room in your living room, too! :)

DRFTR8
08-06-2004, 03:13 PM
^^ nice job...glad you finally got them on...come by later so i can see them...how you like the ride?

BluEvo
08-06-2004, 03:32 PM
looks good. h-techs or s-techs? i'm still lagging to install my h-techs.

Boostd4
08-08-2004, 03:13 PM
I'm taking it in on monday for an alignment...so far I'm pleased with the setup. It only took me about an hour and a half to install them..very easy.

Boostd4
08-09-2004, 06:49 PM
^^ nice job...glad you finally got them on...come by later so i can see them...how you like the ride?

Well, I like it A LOT better now that the alignment is done. I was way off on all 4 wheels, thus explaining the squirly feeling in corners. I'm very happy with the setup.

Evo916
12-13-2004, 11:12 PM
Boostd4, are those S Tech or H Tech springs?

559EVO
12-14-2004, 07:17 PM
Does anybody here have the RSR titanium springs installed?

Boostd4
12-20-2004, 02:22 PM
Boostd4, are those S Tech or H Tech springs?

They are the S Techs.