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View Full Version : N00b needs help tuning for intake...



socalredline
07-10-2007, 10:42 AM
Anyone want to point me to a thread here that can help me? ive read most the threads on EvoM, and SCE...but still havent gotten a good way to tune for the intake.

Basically, I got a Fujita+UCIP, installed it. Now, i noticed that there is a idle issue, and there is 1psi missing. So, I did a leak test with the air compressor @25psi, read 1.4-1.3bar(hKpa) on the boost gauge, so...i couldnt find any major leaks in the piping. SO...i think that the MAF is just reading funny, and causing the idle problem.

Some people have told me to change the MAF size, some have said to change the MAF Smoothing table, 1 guy said change the other MAF table... Which is the best method fo tuning for the new intake?

thanks in advance for the help.

tam@xperformance
07-10-2007, 11:18 AM
Which is the best method fo tuning for the new intake?

1. Take the car to SpeedElement, GST, or WORKS.
2. Hand over a bit of money.
3. Wait an hour.
4. Enjoy.

;)

socalredline
07-10-2007, 11:22 AM
^lol...thanks for the smarty pants answer :D...

im a DIY kinda guy, until i get all the go-fast parts i need, then its on for dyno tune. I have tuning experience with other boosted cars, and other tuning programs associated. Im new to ECU flash, and cant get the idle problem worked out.

With HPTuners (GM cars) you just changed the MAF size, and it automatically scaled all the MAF tables for you.

p.s. i have a LC-1 and a EGT probe. Im not "flying blind"

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-10-2007, 11:46 AM
What Idle issue are you seeing? And you say you lost 1psi? At peak, up top? Have logs?

socalredline
07-10-2007, 11:52 AM
^yea i have logs. I was waiting for you to see this thread. I need a ECUflash mentor so bad its not funny. Thanks Brian!

I havent really been able to "catch" the rpm issue. But it does it when i am off throttle after acceleration, and at stops. TPS is at 20%, load is around 47, and RPM's will drop to 685rpm on the logs, but it looks like its sitting round 500 on the Tach. Wierd thing is the AFR reads 10-8 when this happens...so i hope that its not just dumping fuel...

where you want me to send the logs? or should i post them?

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-10-2007, 11:54 AM
Sounds like it's leaning/richening out the idle. The fujita is a hard intake pipe right? The Maf doesn't play well with alot of those.

What about the boost issue? It dropped 1 psi where?

Have you logged your current fuel trims?

socalredline
07-10-2007, 11:59 AM
^yea the Fujita is Alum.
I lost the 1psi at peak. used to peak out at 1.36-1.38bar(hKpa) now it only peaks at 1.27-1.28bar.Â* I also lost a bit after peak, not really sure, as there is no way for me to log boost without the JDM Map. I figured it was the UCIP being larger than stock, its a 3" tube that connects to the TB.

i cant seem to locate any boost leaks at the connections tho...its driving me crazy, the good thing about roots superchargers is you dont have to worry bout boost leaks...lol :D

p.s. my laptop wont connect here at work, im gonna grab the thumb drive and post the logs that i happened to catch the RPM drop.

EvoScan 1.31 is what im using to log...

it doesnt read out LTFT's and STFT's for some reason, it just reads out the same thing all the time.

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-10-2007, 12:01 PM
Probably just got some pressure drop across the new pipes.

What does your short trim fuel trim look like? Mitsulogger is a better piece of software to log fuel trims than evoscan.

socalredline
07-10-2007, 12:03 PM
^yea, mitsu logger looks better, i just have to locate my MSDN folder, and re-install MS Office 2005, I havent paid for 2007 yet :D...lol.

socalredline
07-10-2007, 12:18 PM
ok, here are the 2 logs that i gaught the RPM drop. They are both after WOT runs.
...ok, N/m you cant upload attachments here...

im gonna get a screenshot and post.
If you want me to e-mail, i can send logs.

Thanks again bryan :D

socalredline
07-10-2007, 01:02 PM
ok...after all that here is the screen shot. I have the logs in excel format. too noob to upload it here...


This is after 2nd gear WOT:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/SCRLAmike/RPMDrop2.jpg

After 3rd gear WOT:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/SCRLAmike/RPMDrop.jpg

P.S. This is a IX, with the following mods:
Tanabe DP
Fujita Intake and UICP.
Tuned to 11 AFR.
No timing changes (yet)

dl_EVO
07-10-2007, 01:44 PM
i told you not to get an intake!

Intake + EVO = the DeViLZ!

socalredline
07-10-2007, 01:45 PM
^lol...it was a good deal tho! :D

P.S. Quit stalling your car...its baaad, mmmmkay. :lol:

dl_EVO
07-10-2007, 01:47 PM
Not to thread jack, but how are things on the RLF?

I don't go there anymore...

socalredline
07-10-2007, 01:49 PM
Not to thread jack, but how are things on the RLF?

I don't go there anymore...

meh, boring. nothing much going down. Caboose and KSC are going to do a pancake eating contest. Trackslut is getting a pool together for the fastest RLF redline for the summer season. MGM Matt decided to leave the forum. I sold 90% of my parts...:D

thas bout it.

dl_EVO
07-10-2007, 01:53 PM
That forum is only good for arguing with hicks...lol :)

that community is dead...

socalredline
07-10-2007, 01:55 PM
That forum is only good for arguing with hicks...lol :)

that community is dead...

50yrol was right, that forum/car really "jumped the shark"... OH OH, I almost forgot,

DJT Dan is selling his ghetto-turbo-swapped Redline. (LOL) he wants $17K.

dl_EVO
07-10-2007, 01:59 PM
LOL! The 5ft long exhaust manifold! LOL!

What a joke!

I wouldn't give him a half eaten in and out burger for that ghetto rigged POS.

turbotiger
07-10-2007, 03:12 PM
You should log AirFlow HZ.
You should be able to see any disturbances in maf flow through that.

socalredline
07-10-2007, 04:58 PM
^ i did log MAF Hz (i log everything) from stock to this one...no change. Actually a little less Hz out of the new intake...but...could just be turbulence...

p.s. i have those logs as well... if needed :shrug03:

dl_EVO
07-12-2007, 12:15 PM
why don't you just take the intake off and sell it ricer boy.. lol

socalredline
07-12-2007, 12:16 PM
^but its sooo purdy...

dl_EVO
07-12-2007, 12:20 PM
here why don't I buy you an APC sticker to put on your car for your bday you ricer..


it's purdy too!

socalredline
07-12-2007, 12:24 PM
^lol...bastid. :D

i dont give up on things that easily. I gotta keep trying until it works. Ive tried changing around the maf scaling, and it helped...a little. Im too scared to change things too much. The load shoots up a bit when you start messing with these scales.

and, i left a message with my buddy at Enterprise. He is working till 8 tonight. Ill get right on that for you. Your Bday is 4 days before my GF's bday.

p.s. im the opposite of ricer...Alpha is a ricer.

dl_EVO
07-12-2007, 12:29 PM
I don't understand why you want the intake, your going to have to tune the car to get it to stock response. I don't understand ricer..

Well second thought I do kinda understand, you want to grow as a tooner and yada yada. :)

Well don't put too much time into it.. All I need to know if ALL enterprises have them or if it's just the ones in SoCal.

That's cool. Oy cool people are born at the end of August. VIRGO POWAH!
:P

socalredline
07-12-2007, 12:47 PM
:rofl:...

yes...one day i will be able to say that im a decent cartooner...:lol: The problem is that i have been using HPTuners too much with Fullthrottlemike's car and his buddy Warren's RL...that program is slick, it automatically generates the maf values for you when you mess with the maf sizes. That, and you can tune out the fail frequencies to rid yourself of the stoopid p1182 code that you get from intakes.

I dunno, even Bryan said the stock airbox runs into restrictions or around 350whp. so...i dunno. Im trying to squeak as much power out of this car, without having to run 100 octane, or swap turbos, or stoke it :facelick:. lol (im still using RLF smilies...)

Im sure the cars are available at most locations, you just might have to drive to a larger branch to get it (i.e. airport branch, regional branch). Im not 100% sure on the price either, he gives me the Allstate insurance agent discount.

dl_EVO
07-12-2007, 03:19 PM
Well...all you want is 330whp..

So you won't hit that maximum restriction of the airbox riceboy...

So...intake? because? ricer?

I thought so... :)

socalredline
07-12-2007, 03:22 PM
...so you wanna buy a brand new intake?

lol...nah, i eventually want to exceed 330whp...with:
FP Green turbine
headers
ARP head studs
Headgasket
Cams
Springs
Ti Retainers
Larger I/C
Lower intake piping
Meth injection

remember, right now...the goal is jsut 330, i didnt mention 400+ by 2009...lol :D

then after that ill be like Dan, and decide to get a too big Deisel turbo and shoot for a "modern day supra"

PANGES
07-12-2007, 04:03 PM
...so you wanna buy a brand new intake?

lol...nah, i eventually want to exceed 330whp...with:
FP Green turbine
headers
ARP head studs
Headgasket
Cams
Springs
Ti Retainers
Larger I/C
Lower intake piping
Meth injection

remember, right now...the goal is jsut 330, i didnt mention 400+ by 2009...lol :D

then after that ill be like Dan, and decide to get a too big Deisel turbo and shoot for a "modern day supra"


If you just want 330whp, you might not even need the meth.

socalredline
07-12-2007, 04:15 PM
^lol...thats for when i decide to go past 21psi...

Im trying to hit 400whp in 2 years...330whp is this year...

PANGES
07-12-2007, 04:18 PM
^lol...thats for when i decide to go past 21psi...

Im trying to hit 400whp in 2 years...330whp is this year...


I'm running 24psi on 91 octane. All is well.

socalredline
07-12-2007, 04:20 PM
^really? ive never seen anyone run past 20 with any significant timing...you have a better intercooler? and is it 24 peak or 24 constant?

whats your timing advance like @ 4-5K?

PANGES
07-12-2007, 04:23 PM
^really? ive never seen anyone run past 20 with any significant timing...you have a better intercooler? and is it 24 peak or 24 constant?

whats your timing advance like @ 4-5K?


it's just a spike... For the timing stuff, you'd have to beg Andy for that info. :lol:

socalredline
07-12-2007, 04:25 PM
^ahhhh got it, that makes sense...it sucks us left coasters get crap-for-gas

so, that means youre getting 24 peak, then tapers to about 19-22...somthing round there...

timing, bummer, i was hoping to get a hand out :lol:...i gotta get of my a$$ and get that EGT installed...


EDIT: Im still new to the Turbo, all the other cars ive worked on are Roots style superchargers...positive displacement FTW...its easy to calculate boost on one of those...just suck for efficiency, lol. Heaton Superchargers FTL!

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-12-2007, 05:56 PM
The 9's can run a bit more boost in the peak torque area of the powerband. The revised head, etc allows this. Some guys with the good gas and good tune, 93-94 octane run 25psi peak.

On 91, depending on how the car likes it, you can get away with 21-23 psi. This is with about 2-4 degrees ignition timing, again depending on how the car reacts. Every one is different.

On the flipside, the 9's run a bit less timing up top than 8's do on 91 octane. With good boost control (holding boost well), it will be around 10-12 degrees at 7,000 rpm depending on the car.

The sensitive area on the 4G63's for both generations is at 5,500-6,000 rpm, some can only take about 6-8 degrees here, while others can take 10-11 degrees. This of course, is all dependent on the boost level and AFR in this area as well.

I think that you plan on installing an EGT gauge is great. It's not always how much boost you can hold up top. As this can have drawbacks. To hold alot of boost up top on 91 octane you would need to have some low timing numbers, which can increase EGT temps. So being able to keep an eye on this is good.

On top of all this you are limited by the efficiency of your motor. How efficient your exhaust and intake airflow is, determines how much boost and timing you can run. Stock 9's will be different than 9's with full turbo back exhausts, no cat, and a intake. Mivec will also play a part in this. It's a balance between intake cam advancement, timing, boost and AFR.

socalredline
07-12-2007, 06:07 PM
thank you for that rundown. Ive noticed that about the sensitive area around 5.5-6K rpm. I havent really tried to tune the IGN much, other than to reduce knock in that area. I havent gone crazy on the timing as of yet, without the EGT.
In any tuning method, you always start with AFR, then tune Timing, then tune any other variable such as Mivec or boost. After the EGT goes in, its onto Mivec tuning.

Im waiting on a few parts to come in before i start going crazy with the tuning. I really need to find a good catback, and O2 housing.

anyways, ive gotten the Idle problem to be slightly less, by changing MAF scaling up 2 clicks...any possible negative outcome due to this? It did change my load values up a few values by doing this.

Originally, stock, i was able to hit 250+ load in 5th, or 250 on certain peaks depending on RPM. Now i rarely get near 250 in 5th and nowhere near 250 in any gear. Should I change the scaling to try to match, or get close to, what the car was stock? what do you think?