Legality difference between no cat and HFC?

[Evo VIII]

Is it just me, or from what I've understood, a high-flow cat is just as illegal as having no cat at all? Is this true, or is there a difference? The reason I'm asking is because SpeedElement mentioned that high flow cats are illegal in California, so it's got me wondering why people do it.

[UCB]

Yes, both are equally illegal

They do it because they are tree huggers or simply dont like the catless smell :P

[chrisw]

with the right HFC, you can pass the sniffer test. Depending on the smog station, they may or may not let you pass visual. It's up to the technician at that point.

[Unowned]

Yes, both are equally illegal

They do it because they are tree huggers or simply dont like the catless smell :P


Catless also is much louder than a having a Hi-Flow, it's a trade off of things for less power.

[esco]

Yes, both are equally illegal

They do it because they are tree huggers or simply dont like the catless smell :P


Catless also is much louder than a having a Hi-Flow, it's a trade off of things for less power.

I had a muffler delete and a high flow cat and got a mod'd exhaust ticket and BAR saw my cat and said it wont pass smog, its not odb2.

[mtsevovii]

Yes, both are equally illegal

They do it because they are tree huggers or simply dont like the catless smell :P


:lol: agreed

[oneillevo]

Really HFC are illegal? Thats a new one for me, honestly never knew that.

[UCB]

Yes, in CA, removal or modification of cats is illegal.

[ReSin]

I use to run a HFC because of STU ruleset...

Dennis

[warpspeed]

Really HFC are illegal? Thats a new one for me, honestly never knew that.


Now you know. :) California has the strictest smog regulations.

[UCB]

I use to run a HFC because of STU ruleset...

Dennis


ahh yes...tis a reason as well. I was thinking about running a hfc specifically to run in STU

Nahhhh =P

[Ben]

So what I gather from this post is that it's pointless to run a highflow cat since it's just as illegal as a test pipe. That's retarded who makes these laws? So really the only reason you should want a highflow cat on your car is because you actually care enough about the environment to sacrifice a few ponies. Damn I hate these smog laws. Let's all move to Florida and not worry about it.

[EuGeNiLe]

People run high flow cats to pass smog. And if a cop looks under, they will see what looks like to be a cat so they wont automatically ticket you for no cat, but probably get you for modified exhaust. Of course why do that when you can just get cat shields welded around your straight pipe--the obvious smell is a dead giveaway.

So HFC is not pointless, you can feel safer driving around with the rest of your turboback exhaust, and pass smog without altering the system.

Of course its all pointless if your reffed.

[MarkSAE]

High flow cat = less paranoia when driving around the street. I can smell a catless car from pretty far back. The exhaust fumes come through my vents. If I was a cop, that would tip me off to look under your car for a cat.

[Limeyboy]

Passing smog with a HFC is not impossible. Its down to the tech doing the work and if your HFC passes sniffer. A HFC is not actually illegal, as long as your factory cat was "damaged" to the point of needing removed and it meeds the emissions standards. Otherwise, its illegal ;)

[nightwalker]

HFC is illegal regardless. If you damaged your cat, then you are supposed to get another OEM or (and that's a big OR) an OBD2 approved cat.

...on the other hand, a lot of smog techs don't really look underneath to make sure your cat is oem. Only the smog ref would fail you.

[lncrevoviii]

It is quite true that HFC is as illegal as a test pipe.

Why people choose to run a HFC is because it still has the looks of a regular cat, where a testpipe is a nothing but a pipe. Having a HFC will make your exhaust note a bit quieter and the other thing is that you loose a bit of power.


IMO, you can buy a used stock cat and gut it out. Then you have a testpipe which looks 100% stocker, but the smell ofcourse will give it away.

[Positron]

HFC also wont drone so loud inside the cabin. With a testpipe, the exhaust drowned ALOT on the freeway.

[Full Function]

HFC is illegal regardless. If you damaged your cat, then you are supposed to get another OEM or (and that's a big OR) an OBD2 approved cat.


Not all HFC are illegal, the ones we sell are CA. OBDII compliant and will pass sniffer and visual. There is two different kinds of HFCs, compliant and non compliant "race" cats. In the compliant catagory, there is either OBDI or OBDII, and in the OBDII, there is federal and CA versions. You need to get a CA OBDII High Flow Cat.

Jerry

[MarkSAE]

Not all HFC are illegal, the ones we sell are CA. OBDII compliant and will pass sniffer and visual. There is two different kinds of HFCs, compliant and non compliant "race" cats. In the compliant catagory, there is either OBDI or OBDII, and in the OBDII, there is federal and CA versions. You need to get a CA OBDII High Flow Cat.


By the time a cat meets all the CA and OBDII requirements, they're not very high flowing.. haha..

Also, aftermarket cats don't last as long as they're made w/ cheaper materials. OE cats usually cost $800+ whereas aftermarket cats only cost ~$60 for the core. Recyclers pay a lot for old OE cats and almost nothing for aftermarkets.

[warpspeed]

Not all HFC are illegal, the ones we sell are CA. OBDII compliant and will pass sniffer and visual. There is two different kinds of HFCs, compliant and non compliant "race" cats. In the compliant catagory, there is either OBDI or OBDII, and in the OBDII, there is federal and CA versions. You need to get a CA OBDII High Flow Cat.

Jerry


Gee as far as I know there is no Ca. compliant HFC for ODBII vehicles. True, not all HFC are illegal. Those companies that say that statement about being Ca. approved also say for off-road use only. Unless you can post up the c.a.r.b. e.o # for the cat. you guys sell, , we can check if it is a true Ca. compliant HFC. We can check it here:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.php

[DaveLC2]

Yes, in CA, removal or modification of cats is illegal.


If I am not mistaken the cat can be legally replaced after your car is either 5 yrs old or has 60k miles on it. I might be wrong on the years but I am pretty sure about the 60k miles. As far as I know you're NEVER suppose to modify or replace any part of the exhaust before the cat, unless it of course fails. An Evo IX turbo shouldn't be a problem though as most smog techs probably wouldn't notice the difference and it's oem anyway. I want to change my cat but I would like to stay ozone friendly 8)

Dave

[redevil9mr]

What you guys think of Random Technology HFC??? Will they pass the sniffer test???

[DaveLC2]

What you guys think of Random Technology HFC??? Will they pass the sniffer test???


I had one on my Grand National and passed with no problems.

Dave

[MarkSAE]

What you guys think of Random Technology HFC??? Will they pass the sniffer test???


Not the one they sell for the evo. It's only a 100 cpsi (cell per square inch) cat. I read on evom.net that the OE cat is around 400 cpsi. Most OBDII compliant aftermarket cats sold are around 400 cpsi, which is OE spec. So in order to make a cat more "high flowing", the cell density is reduced. So you're basically sacrificing emissions for more flow.

For your reference, I have the Helix HFC, which is 200 cpsi... and my exhaust smells like a test pipe at idle (even w/ stock cams). I doubt my car would pass the sniffer at idle, so I'm sure the Random Tech cat won't pass either. My P0420 cat inefficiency CEL is always on also. I'm guessing you need a 250-300 cpsi or higher cat to pass the sniffer.

[mbrickner]

Yes, in CA, removal or modification of cats is illegal.


Unless it is a replacement because the OEM failed. But in CA our originals are under the special warranty from the dealer and it's either 5 or 7 years ( can't remember, but pretty sure in CA only emissions parts are 7 years, saw it in warranty book). So, probably won't fly if you say it's a replacement.

[DirectorSe7en]

So, someone help. Hypothetical scenario here. Say I get pulled over by a Cop, he looks underneath my car and see's that I have a test pipe.

What does he do? Can he take my car, or just ticket me? How much is the ticket?

Why would I want a test pipe over a HFC if I'll never see a track?

[H8er]

I'd say unless there is some cop that is simply trying to nail you for something, he could possibly look to see if you have a cat on your car... but the chances of this happening are very slim to me. With that said, I would still see no reason in justify using a test pipe for that slim chance.

I believe a HFC to be good enough, though a test pipe will produce more hosre powa!! But that is your choice to make of course :D

[DirectorSe7en]

Well yea, I"m just trying to make sure they can't impound my car or something.

[H8er]

unless you cross the most insane asshole cop on the planet I never foresee that happening.

[mbrickner]

You may get a ticket, I really doubt be towed or impounded unless you ran over a pedestrian in a street race. Just say the cat is farther forward in your downpipe, eek.. I've seen them..

[Mister_Pants]

It all depends on where your at and what your doing. I haven't been keeping up with the laws lately but the last time I checked you can legally be fined up to 1000.00 per emissions control device removed. Not to mention the cost of bringing the car back to a legal state.
Also, a replacement part like a catalytic converter would not necessarily need an EO number if it were classified as a true "replacement" part. A good example would be spark plug wires or coils...it is getting to the point where you could probably pick up a replacement coil form the local NAPA if you needed to. The part you buy would be an aftermarket replacement but would not need an EO number because it is an OE replacement part. Now if your fancy catalytic converter was not designed to be an OE replacement part then yes it may need an exemption order number but a lot of aftermarket replacement cats do not. I haven't been keeping up with the progress in the automotive aftermarket but recently I did see some CA compliant OBD II aftermarket replacement cats showing up on the market. In due time hopefully there will be more choices as far as what's out there.
If anyone is concerned then you should all know that currently the Gov is filing a lawsuit against the EPA in an effort to enforce even stricter emissions standards than what the EPA is allowing. There was an article about it in the paper recently. All these brainwashed Californians don't understand what the repercussions of this will be, but unfortunately at this point it looks like it's going to happen.

[player67]

Whats funny is I had a STRAIGHT exhaust from tubular headers to a test pipe and everything and normal driving my friends said they couldnt sniff anything from my car but at WOT they said my car is like a loud rotting corpse @ 80MPH :lol: My buddyes STi with JUST an HKS hi power catback smelled like garbage

[Mister_Pants]

Did you ask him if he in fact had garbage in the motor?

[Sfkn2]

High flow cat = less paranoia when driving around the street. I can smell a catless car from pretty far back. The exhaust fumes come through my vents. If I was a cop, that would tip me off to look under your car for a cat.



That's true. My wife gets pissed off when she drives behind me. Heh.

[Sfkn2]

It all depends on where your at and what your doing. I haven't been keeping up with the laws lately but the last time I checked you can legally be fined up to 1000.00 per emissions control device removed. Not to mention the cost of bringing the car back to a legal state.
Also, a replacement part like a catalytic converter would not necessarily need an EO number if it were classified as a true "replacement" part. A good example would be spark plug wires or coils...it is getting to the point where you could probably pick up a replacement coil form the local NAPA if you needed to. The part you buy would be an aftermarket replacement but would not need an EO number because it is an OE replacement part. Now if your fancy catalytic converter was not designed to be an OE replacement part then yes it may need an exemption order number but a lot of aftermarket replacement cats do not. I haven't been keeping up with the progress in the automotive aftermarket but recently I did see some CA compliant OBD II aftermarket replacement cats showing up on the market. In due time hopefully there will be more choices as far as what's out there.
If anyone is concerned then you should all know that currently the Gov is filing a lawsuit against the EPA in an effort to enforce even stricter emissions standards than what the EPA is allowing. There was an article about it in the paper recently. All these brainwashed Californians don't understand what the repercussions of this will be, but unfortunately at this point it looks like it's going to happen.


Is it a fix it ticket, or just $1000 fine?

[mbrickner]

I imagine if they really did catch someone they would write the ticket and a state ref.

[Mister_Pants]

Like I said I haven't followed the law very closely lately but IIRC you get the ticket sending you to the state ref PLUS the fine for removing smog devices.

[redevil9mr]

Just don't got WOT when there are police around you.

[mbrickner]

From my research, it's more noticeable when idling, unless by WOT you mean to prevent getting pulled over for speeding and/or loud exhaust.

[DirectorSe7en]

Loud exhaust = most common reason to get pulled over and checked.

[DaveLC2]

Man when I was 19 I just about shit myself. I had removed the cat in my mom's 85 Pontiac Grand Am and put a straight pipe in it's place. The oem muffler had a small hole so the car was hella loud. On Stanley Blvd in Livermore headed toward Pleasanton traffic was slow in the left lane by the Arco so I changed lanes over to the right and I passed a cop a couple of cars up :shock: My mom was in the car. When the officer made the stop and came up along side of us he asked me why the car was SO loud. I told him that there was a whole in the rear muffler. Thankfully he didn't neal down in the uneven dirt and see the shiney silver straight pipe in place of the Cat. I ended up with a $20 fix it ticket and put a new cat from Monument on First St as well as a turbo muffler and found a cop at the Dougnut Wheel in Livermore to sign it off :lol:

Dave

[mbrickner]

Haha.. great classic story