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View Full Version : FIRST MODS STAGED UPGRADES general guidance tuning philosophy



trinydex
09-07-2007, 04:22 PM
in the evo world it is easy to get lost in the hype and misinformation available on the internet. it's not false to say many of the components on the stock evo are suitable for form and function up to a certain threshold. as one progresses past certain thresholds in airflow and support for airflow or power production certain components need to be replaced with more idealized parts to actually achieve higher potentials.

this should happen in the form of staged upgrades. staged upgrades are a general guideline for the general order of performed modifications. it is not a strict path but they are strong suggestions and many times deviating from the path will probably make your car a confused hodgepodge of uncomplimentary modifications.

the below is a course outline of what you might see as a bare bones approach to modifying in light of the flashing technology that is available to us now in the evo world. there are many more bells and whistles and many intermediates steps of tuning that can be inserted at various points. keep reading to the end for discussion.


follow stages

Flashy Stage 1 is:

-3" catback exhaust
-Fuel pump
-Boost Controller

you'll need someone to push the buttons on the laptop for a ecuflash road tune (hence flashy)


Stage 1+ is all of Flashy Stage 1 +:

-3" Downpipe
-Cat Replacement
-Cams

plus the additions of an optional o2 housing or 10.5 hot side if applicable.

insert flashy here.

Flashy Stage 2 is:

-Fuel pump
-Boost Controller
-3" catback exhaust
-Injectors
-Cams
-3" downpipe
-Cat replacement
-Biggie turbo

Someone pushes the buttons for the flashy

Stage 2+ is all of Stage 2 +:

-AEM EMS
-AEM MAP Sensor
-MAFless intake
-GM AIT Sensor
-Wideband
-Upgraded FMIC and IC piping

you'll need someone to push the button on the laptop for the ems tune

Stage 3 is:

-Fuel pump
-Boost Controller
-3" catback exhaust
-1000cc Denso Injectors
-Bigger Cams
-3" downpipe
-Cat replacement
-Bigger turbo
-AEM EMS
-AEM MAP Sensor
-MAFless intake
-GM AIT Sensor
-Wideband
-Upgraded FMIC and IC piping
-Built increased displacement (2.3 or 2.4 Liter)
-Race ported head with oversized valves

you'll need someone to push the buttons on the ems tune



as you can see the basic precept is first you want some way to free up the exhaust flow. sure you can put an intake on too, but you'll want to address the possible air metering issues. reference http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&topic=19987.0

then you want some way to control boost. mainly to raise boost. the problem with this is you need some way to physically monitor it too (at least initially) so that you know the boost is dialed in at the right pressure level for safe operation.

the extra fuel pump action is just for 'safety' and also to maximize the money spent on tuning. every time you pay hard earned cash to get a tune you should actually have something being changed significantly, this is why you need to plan and stage intelligently. keep in mind the FIRST tune you get is gonna be the MOST dramatic (until you get real serious power). it's also the most work (someone will have to work from a premade map to cut time spend down)

you could throw in the injectors at the same time as the fuel pump in order to maximize tuning cost per benefit (and you probably should)

notice there is a subtlety in the stages that suggests you should work from the rear of the exhaust towards the front in terms of order of replacement. it does not make sense or significant gains to tune or otherwise change piping upstream only to clog it downstream. bottom line is that is not an economical way to do things and that's what such a guide is for. if you are going to sandbag your car into all kinds of backwards situations then you don't need a guide and you apparently don't need anymore money either.

the next big piece of work is cams. many times people include the head studs in here also. keep in mind that the only truly proper way to install headstuds is "all at once"Â* with a new head gasket etc. this is an expensive process and many people opt for the cheaper "one by one" method. while this method is met with varying degrees of success many have found coolant or oil leaks through their head gaskets later. this is a risk that one will have to decide upon for his or herself but for a car not going past 26psi there is not a legitimate reason to pursue such avenues given the presented risk.

so the next big progression is a larger turbo. these days a larger turbo can mean one of the evogreen type turbos, a 50 trim, a 3076, gt35r or beyond. for a stock ecu there are several considerations when choosing a turbo.
fuel control capability: this usually has to do with scaling of injectors and the load maps.
idle and rpm range: can you scale the load maps to reach where your highest operating rpm of the turbo is? is your idle workable?
overall ignition timing resolution: can you run smoothly with the stock ecu and its ignition timing resolution.
maf restriction: will your turbo suck up the maf?

when things get too complex then you move to a stand alone ecu system.

stuff like intercoolers and intercooler piping is and should be used at safety and consistency items first and power adders second. that being said it is possible to overwhealm these components when given enough horsepower potential, they can be the limiting factor. but no matter what they're better and best for safety and can be added inbetween any number of stages and should of course be installed at hte same time as other stuff to maximize tuning cost benefit.

eventually ignition system strength comes into question. whether it's gapping plugs, or boosting ignition signal strength, there are products and procedures to do this stuff. you'll likely encounter these types of problems when turning up the boost.

maintenance is the most important of all modifying, and it is the most basic. there is no such thing as reliable power. only maintainable power. how much you want to maintain is up to you.

trinydex
09-07-2007, 04:50 PM
please gurus chime in. i'd like this to be an end all thread that anyone can reference for good unbiased information. i tried to make things vague so there's room for everyone to develop their own modding regimen. tuning philosophy is important and i'm not the end all of that subject.

nightwalker
09-08-2007, 12:32 AM
What fun is it if everyone does the same thing?

Ben
09-08-2007, 01:51 AM
^ He is just trying to help people who want to try to mod right rather than just throw money at the car. Anyways, I'd love to see what some of the tuners on here have to say since I usually look at their cars when I decide what direction to take my car in.

player67
09-08-2007, 01:12 PM
What fun is it if everyone does the same thing?


Well, I guess people really do th same thing, but at different times. Obviously we don't notice because of all the differnet brands and *colors out there. I mean essentialy everyone does intake exhaust and so forth. Cams then big turbo, but some don't do cams and blah blah. Its an ingenious write up by an ingenious guy!

trinydex
09-08-2007, 05:56 PM
the outline is the same. how much money people want to waste on buying things multiple times because they're unsatisfied with their car is the only difference.

atlvalet
09-08-2007, 06:16 PM
how much money people want to waste on buying things multiple times because they're unsatisfied with their car is the only difference.


You need to send this link to Goku then :)

Sometimes better options come out. For example, I have a Nisei Competition IC. It's a great intercooler, however the new IC that FullRace came out with looks interesting to me, and may provide some advantages in spool-up. Sometimes, when you're exploring the limits of the car, you swap out parts. For example, if I get the Full Race IC, it will be my 4th (including stock). I am also on my 3rd set of cams, 3rd set of injectors, and my 2nd aftermarket HFC. Then again, some people aren't looking for the Max set-up, they're just looking for a good set-up. I am chasing the magical 400 DJ whp on 91 without a wacky, aggressive tune.

ignatz
09-10-2007, 08:30 PM
Erik: Better options are always coming out. But that's not really the point. The emphasis should be on "combination". What good is it to keep changing from one state of the art IC to another,Â* with little potential power difference, while you insist on retaining a catalytic(albeit a high flow unit) and using 91 octane gazoline?

It seems kinda senseless to progress up though stage 2, or 3, while still retaining the power robbing catalytic. These convertors act as a restriction, creating way too much backpressure, and increase EGT's markedly,Â* while ultimately slowing down turbo spoolup. No way you'll ever get your VIII to 400WHP on 91 octane through a cat with the Green, on theÂ* stock MAF setup, without using alky or nitrous. JMO. As an added incentive, should you decide to accept this challenge, I agree to eat my hat. 8)Â* Good Luck! , :P

atlvalet
09-10-2007, 10:04 PM
No way you'll ever get your VIII to 400WHP on 91 octane through a cat with the Green, on the stock MAF setup, without using alky or nitrous. JMO. As an added incentive, should you decide to accept this challenge, I agree to eat my hat. 8) Good Luck! , :P


This is exactly why I am aiming for 400whp on 91 with the Green with a high-flow cat. :D

We will have to change your screen name to The Mad Hatter ;)