Works or Vishnu Ecu flash?

[warpspeed]

Hello guys. I just found out that Vishnu has a ecu flash like Works. I was wondering if anybody done this to their Evo. I never really liked those piggyback unit but since Vishnu is doing a "flash", I was wondering if the performance is the same or even better than Works.

thanks :D

[leif]

go vishnu...spend a few more bux and get a dyno tuned flash...

[nebolic]

doesnt works P2 flash get you more power? i'm looking to get a flash too, from what i gathered, xflash still tapers off boost when running to red line but works p2 brain flash holds boost till redline, any suggestions?

[JanSolo]

doesnt works P2 flash get you more power? i'm looking to get a flash too, from what i gathered, xflash still tapers off boost when running to red line but works p2 brain flash holds boost till redline, any suggestions?

I believe the Vishnu Xflash does the same - hold boost at peak till redline, though admittedly, with all my searching on Vishnu and EvoM, I have yet to find anything that states this specifically. Furthermore, the Xflash can be specific to your specific mods and if you have the time and money, can be custom tuned to your car specifically. This was the selling point of the Dynoflash, but I would rather put my money on Shiv vs. Al.

[JanSolo]

After looking some more, it turns out I am wrong about the boost taper on Xflash. There is indeed boost taper on the Xflash. Here is what Shiv said:

"There is still a taper but it begins at 5800rpm, not at 4000rpm like normal. During stress testing (loading up the engine at full boost for 20 seconds intervals to look at output power stability), we needed to have some sort of boost reduction above 6000rpm. Power loss (through heatsoak and knock sensor activity due to the sustained loading) rose from a troubling 30% to a nice 10% which was our goal."

It's the 12th post down (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53611). <- click here!

[howiEVO8]

so how much is the xflash again? and that's all i'll need right? or do i have to buy more parts if i get the xflash? o.O

[xchoirboy]

so how much is the xflash again? and that's all i'll need right? or do i have to buy more parts if i get the xflash? o.O

If you get it during the 24th meet its $295 :lol: . From what i've read you don't need anymore parts. If you have mods then you can go for a custom tune on the dyno.

[JanSolo]

All Shiv does is hook up a laptop to your car via the OBD2 port and uploads a new image of the rom that the car runs off of. That is the quick and easy part. The time consuming part is spent on the dyno. It's also really, really boring for anyone not in the car, watching someone else's car get tuned.

[nebolic]

also, doesnt he take out something in the wastegate? cuz i believe thats how he attains the extra boost, same thing with Works Brain flash.

[JanSolo]

I believe Shiv said something about a restrictor pill being removed. Works changes the boost hose assembly with their own - which happens to look exactly like the stock hose. Uber stealthy.

[nebolic]

so which one are people leaning towards, or is it just a preference of what you want. I'm looking at Works because it holds boost till redline, however Shiv's comment on if you hold the boost till redline it causes knock causes me worry, I'm still stuck on which one to go. Has anyone here have the P2 reflash and anyone here have xflash comment and compare on the two?

[JanSolo]

I had the P2 and never heard an audible knock. But, I don't believe Works would release a product if they knew it caused issues like this.

[nebolic]

so what kind of mods did you also have, do you think its worth the money and also, is the power gain very noticeable? sorry for all the newbie questions, but i'm gathering as much info as i can so i can get a flash too.

[JanSolo]

I really only had 2 performance mods: Buschur catback exhaust and Works P2 reflash.

I think just getting the exhaust makes a huge difference on the top end. That should be your very first investment.

The P2 reflash does make a noticable difference, especially on the top end where the boost generally tapers with the factory ecu image. I noticed that with the P2, my Evo would basically pull till redline, which is probably what you are after. Oh and the Works P2 also raises the rev limiter to 7850, which I have tested. ;) Also you will probably get a little better gas mileage since they lean out the afr a bit.

[nebolic]

nice, those are the only two mods i'm am willing to put on the evo, for stealth and warranty purposes. However I'm looking to get a HKS hiper exhaust, any recommendations on that. I figured its pretty cheap its less than 600 bucks installed (btw its a catback). What do you guys think? And also i'm pretty sure i'll be getting P2 reflash.

[JanSolo]

I personally vote for the Buschur cat back for any Evo, though I do like the HKS. The Buschur is probably the most freeflowing exhaust for the Evo since it is so straight and has fewer bends than other aftermarket exhausts. The price is pretty decent (450$ for the full 3", a little more for the SCCA legal which is a 3" that tapers down to 2.5" so you can use your stock cat) and the quality is very good. If noise is an issue, you can order a manaflow muffler instead of their JDM style can that it usually comes with for 20$ more.

If you do go with an HKS exhaust, you might want to talk to Cal since he works at Gruppe-S and can probably get you a really good deal.

[vtluu]

Note that "SCCA legal" means that (at least for autocross) you can still run your car in Stock or Street Prepared class. Of course if you don't mind going to Street Modified class (and you will, if you mess with the ECU or boost control or engine or turbo in any way) then anything goes. :D

[JanSolo]

The question now is, how will they know you reflashed your ecu? I supposed if you get too good of numbers, someone can challenge you and they can closely inspect your car, but the whole point of the ecu reflash is to be stealthy so no one would actually know you ever had it done.

(And someday, I will have as many posts as you, Tam!)

[nebolic]

great so i think i'm set, to get those two mods, i think i'll be looking at around 1200 dollars together (acck pricey but hopefully it'll be worth it)

[JanSolo]

If you really wanted your car to breathe better, you could get a couple of things: an HKS hiflow air filter, 3" downpipe and a 3" hiflow cat. Add the P2 and you're set. You could always join EvolutionForums.com and hit up Al for his cheap, through the mail Dynoflash which I think is 175$. You definitely have options.

[howiEVO8]

If you really wanted your car to breathe better, you could get a couple of things: an HKS hiflow air filter, 3" downpipe and a 3" hiflow cat. Add the P2 and you're set. You could always join EvolutionForums.com and hit up Al for his cheap, through the mail Dynoflash which I think is 175$. You definitely have options.

I thought we were gonna boycott that Al bastard? lolz jk

[nebolic]

i already have a drop in K&N filter, and i've been reading that if you get an open air filter, it jacks up the Evo cause of the MAF, in any case, i live in sac so rolling over to pleasanton (vishnus xflash) or san francisco (works P2 flash) is not a problem, besides, I dont trust anyone else with my Ecu, no offence to anyone but i like to watch when people work on my car just to make :-)

[howiEVO8]

i already have a drop in K&N filter, and i've been reading that if you get an open air filter, it jacks up the Evo cause of the MAF, in any case, i live in sac so rolling over to pleasanton (vishnus xflash) or san francisco (works P2 flash) is not a problem, besides, I dont trust anyone else with my Ecu, no offence to anyone but i like to watch when people work on my car just to make :-)

yeah i TOTALLY feel you on that..whenver i get anything done to my car....
i always watch the person....cuz the other day the guy that installed my battery was about 2 seconds and a foot away from shorting out my entire electrical system...he had the terminals backwards and was gonna
hook it up...= X

right before i closely zoomed into the details of the pos and neg terminals and i was like "OH FCUK! stop!!! Don't you have it backwards??!?!"
and he was like "holy shizzz, you're absolutely right!? sorrY!"

OMGGG! sajdflsajfdsl;jasfdjksdlfa; thank gawd i was there! and the thing
was i kept debating before i had this done to go get my hair cut while they were working on my car...phew! i'm glad i didn't!

[nebolic]

word good catch, tho i'm not too mechanically inclined, but the mere presence of the owner of the car waching someone working puts pressure on them to do a better job also. yeah i dont trust most people thus, i watch them like a hawk.

[jstockdale]

Well, personally I went with the P2 and havn't regretted it for one second. Works were _very_ profesisonal, and their methods seem to make sense to me. I guess a lot of it is which tuning methology you want to subscribe to. Xflash/Xede doesn't make as much sense to me because although the dyno adjustments do get you the "most power" every time you change your setup you have to pay for more dyno time (which gets expensive _fast_). Once you rule out spending $$$ on the dyno, the P2 is by far the most researched and tested flash for the Evo VIII.

I have almost the entire Works catalogue (according to JanSolo :) ) and love everything.

-S ...

[JanSolo]

i already have a drop in K&N filter, and i've been reading that if you get an open air filter, it jacks up the Evo cause of the MAF, in any case, i live in sac so rolling over to pleasanton (vishnus xflash) or san francisco (works P2 flash) is not a problem, besides, I dont trust anyone else with my Ecu, no offence to anyone but i like to watch when people work on my car just to make :-)

I was talking about this filter below.

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Evo/evoeng/hks_sfilter.jpg

That one won't screw up any air readings at all.

[nebolic]

yeah, but i read reviews that the k&N filters better, so i went with that one instead, 70 bux, but its washable etc... i felt the material on the HKS, didnt like it too much seems like a lot of crap can get through. oh well i think these things are just personal preferences.

[JanSolo]

Xflash/Xede doesn't make as much sense to me because although the dyno adjustments do get you the "most power" every time you change your setup you have to pay for more dyno time (which gets expensive _fast_). Once you rule out spending $$$ on the dyno, the P2 is by far the most researched and tested flash for the Evo VIII.

A couple things to note about the Xflash.

1. There is a wide variety of XFlash maps available for stock, mildly modified and heavily modified vehicles. This means that the vast majority of EVO owners will be able to find an XFlash map that is appropriate for their particular operating conditions and level of modifications.

2. All XFlash customers are entitled to new map revisions, free of charge, as they become available. This means that all XFlash users can update their ECU code as new features and functions become unlocked.

I really can't comment on what Works has to say regarding their tuning philosophy (http://www.worksrally.com/articles/article2.html), but I can say that Vishnu Xflashed Evos show very good numbers on the dyno.

I think the worst thing in regards to Vishnu Tuning is the fact that you generally have to pay 200$ an hour for custom tuning on your car. Ouch.

[nebolic]

hmm so price wises just in case people are wondering...
xflash reguarly is priced $399 plus $200/hr of custom tuning.

P2 works flash is $599 and no tuning there on out.

so it would seem that in the long run the P2 is cheaper?

[JanSolo]

hmm so price wises just in case people are wondering...
xflash reguarly is priced $399 plus $200/hr of custom tuning.

P2 works flash is $599 and no tuning there on out.

so it would seem that in the long run the P2 is cheaper?

Only if you are doing the custom tuning at Shiv's. If you are just downloading maps and uploading them to the ECU, then I suppose Vishnu might end up being cheaper.

[howiEVO8]

so its $299 at the 24th meet, correct?

also...do we gotta bring cash or do they accept CC?

[JanSolo]

Credit card would work fine.

[howiEVO8]

now's my chance to cut up my cc before i charge up anymore on it...haha..c'mon howie you can do it! o.O

[uhoh_evo]

xflash reguarly is priced $399 plus $200/hr of custom tuning.

wait, so is there gonna be a "custom tuning" fee this saturday, too? all together...if i bring cash, how much should i bring?

[JanSolo]

495$ plus tax.

The regular price for the Xflash plus custom tuning is basically 400$ plus 200$ tuning.

The Evo meet/dyno day prices are 300$ for Xflash plus 200$ for tuning.

Doing the math, you save 100$ plus tax.

[uhoh_evo]

hmm...how about split payment? mostly cash and some credit?

[JanSolo]

That would have to worked out with Shiv.

[vtluu]

I'm sure Shiv is flexible when it comes to taking your money. :D

[howiEVO8]

what if you just want the flash without tuning since you dont have anything on your car ? i mean since you already know its stock...hehe

[evo_dadi]

thats what they call a baseline flash which is good for a few hp since it just fine tunes the evo that way.

[xchoirboy]

495$ plus tax.

The regular price for the Xflash plus custom tuning is basically 400$ plus 200$ tuning.

The Evo meet/dyno day prices are 300$ for Xflash plus 200$ for tuning.

Doing the math, you save 100$ plus tax.

Not that I'm complaining but I though the prices were as follows :?

Here is some updated info pertaining to what Shiv is offering up, quoted verbatim:

1. Dyno Runs: 75$ per car for how many runs it takes to get repeatable results (with no tuning). This is usually 4-6 dyno pulls.
2. For custom XFlashes, we'll do $495 for custom Xflash mapping (usual price is $395+200 for tuning). Each car will take 1 hour and should result in 20-30whp gains depending on the level of associated mods.
3. For baseline (no dyno) XFlashes, we'll charge $295 for that day ($100 off).

just asking

[JanSolo]

You are right about the prices, I just added the 5$ to round the prices up. It is technically 495$ for the custom Xflash, but 500$ is just easier to type. ;) So if you look at my post above, I basically said regular price for the Xflash was 600$ and the price on the 24th is 500$. Take away my lazy typing and it becomes 595$ for regular Xflash price and 495$ for Xflash on the 24th.

And because of my laziness, I have had to type ever more.

[vtluu]

Plus tax, of course. :P

[howiEVO8]

okay baseline flash is $295 den? correct? since i won't be needing any tuning?

[JanSolo]

okay baseline flash is $295 den? correct? since i won't be needing any tuning?

Affirmative.

[howiEVO8]

okay how much hp and mpg gain if i just get the baseline flash? I got an hks drop in ;)

[JanSolo]

okay how much hp and mpg gain if i just get the baseline flash? I got an hks drop in ;)

Some people have reported maybe 1 or 2 mpg more, but it obviously depends on how you drive. Personally, my mpg got worse since I drove faster after I got the reflash.

[ytsejam]

got it on saturday.

full tank, 90% freeway, 10% city(lots of boosting).
i filled it in earlier, i got 260 miles and the fuel warning lite was not even on yet, i'd prolly get 275-280 miles before light went on.

EDIT: i was at 173miles at half tank, then last nite we went cruizin, me, thomas and nebolic, and lots of boosting for the other half tank...

EDIT AGAIN: 275-280 miles not MPG...sorry...

[vtluu]

get 275-280mpg
Wow, must be nice having an electric Evo, most of us can get only around 25 mpg! :lol:

[vtluu]

During the break-in period, I did a lot of freeway driving to run up the miles. I found I could average around 24 miles per gallon.

Incidentally, when does your low-gas light go on? I've found that it typically goes on and stays on (assuming a fairly level road) with about 2 gallons left in the tank.

[ytsejam]

yeah 2 gallons is about right

[uhoh_evo]

wait...so stock, what does a baseline flash give in whp?

[ytsejam]

i am not sure since i didn't dyno mine baseline and haven't dynoed after reflash, but i've heard it's between 20-30whp

[wilson1]

baseling flash gives approx. 25 hp for both the P2 and the Xflash.

[howiEVO8]

baseling flash gives approx. 25 hp for both the P2 and the Xflash.

so if i have a drop in does it considered baseline? dumb question sorry, im still a newb...= I

[wilson1]

baseling flash gives approx. 25 hp for both the P2 and the Xflash.

so if i have a drop in does it considered baseline? dumb question sorry, im still a newb...= I

Yes :wink:

[vtluu]

Even if it weren't, would you want to pay $200 custom-tuning your Xflash for the sake of just a $50 mod? :D

[GokuSSJ4]

went tuning is just not about peak #'s but also how smooth the power band becomes ..Thats also important and im sure theres other areas where you can get some nice gains besides top end

[howiEVO8]

Even if it weren't, would you want to pay $200 custom-tuning your Xflash for the sake of just a $50 mod? :D

nah its 295 flat i think...hehe...

to gain about 20-25hp...prolly well worth it..., plus if im gonna save gas...
prolly....hehe...but im thinking of buying 2 more project cars o.O

so im not sure i'm gonna buy anything for my evo...soon....

[559EVO]

I have VISHNU XFLASH stage 0+,with his custom tuning I gained 20 more max HP and 35 more at redline.It was definetly well worth it and then Shiv took me for a ride in my car and his display of driving skills was bad ass!

[thomas]

I have VISHNU XFLASH stage 0+,with his custom tuning I gained 20 more max HP and 35 more at redline.It was definetly well worth it and then Shiv took me for a ride in my car and his display of driving skills was bad ass!

whats up 559EVO, i used to live in that area code!!! now im up in 916...

so what else do you have, when you say "custom tuning" did you get dyno time too.

[559EVO]

I have VISHNU sig turbo back with dyno time,grounding wires,B/M short shifter,HKS turbo timer.What you got thomas?

[thomas]

good sh!t mang, all i have is a k/n drop-in filter and WORKS p2 flash...

ive been seeing alot of heads come up from the Valley. you meeting up with any of 'em?