propane injection

[kataklyzm]

whats up with that? seen it in a few cars on ebay.....to prevent detonation....does it really work? or is it overkill

[Revolver]

Other than on diesels I've only seen propane injection on a few turbo Buicks. www.turbobuick.com The majority of boosted vehicles I see still stick to water injection as it is "safer" to use and only requires you to tap into the washer fluid tank or a small aux tank and is not flamable. Propane requires you to have a pressurized tank of LPG in the trunk. :?

[vtluu]

.....to prevent detonation....
Seems to me using propane in your car could lend a whole new meaning to the term "detonation". :lol:

[kataklyzm]

.....to prevent detonation....
Seems to me using propane in your car could lend a whole new meaning to the term "detonation". :lol:

'specially if you get rear-ended :P

[ovenmit331]

Other than on diesels I've only seen propane injection on a few turbo Buicks. www.turbobuick.com The majority of boosted vehicles I see still stick to water injection as it is "safer" to use and only requires you to tap into the washer fluid tank or a small aux tank and is not flamable. Propane requires you to have a pressurized tank of LPG in the trunk. :?

I've seen the "water-injection" term a lot lately. what exactly is that? It sounds like injecting water into the engine like fuel, but that sounds kinda, how should I say, BAD??? Hydro-lock? If someone could explain this, that would be awesome...

[reefro]

check here... info and forums and what not!

http://www.waterinjection.info/

from their home page:

"Welcome to the new WaterInjection.Info web site. While focused on the injection of water and water mixtures, this site is meant to cover the broad topic of supplemental injection of engine knock suppressing ingredients other than gasoline and diesel fuel. Topics are open to water injection, methanol injection, alcohol injection, propane injection and other injection mixtures meant to supplement the primary gasoline of diesel fuel system of internal combustion engines.

This site focuses primarily on engine knock, engine knock fixes and water injection and mixed methanol injection for gasoline powered, turbo-charged, performance cars. Other information for performance enthusiasts will be periodically included as well."

[david buschur]

We have a kick ass alcohol injection kit out right now. The controller itself is about the size of a pack of cigerettes. The bottle for the resevoir is the stock i/c sprayer bottle, this leaves the factory intercooler sprayer not working. The alcohol is injected in the upper i/c pipe. The kit is progressive so the time when the pump comes on and the time when the pump maxes out can be controlled.

I have used these on turbo Buicks for years but never pushed it much on imports. Now that we started installing them on EVO's I can't say enough good about them. They just amaze me.

I am doing tunes in EVO's on 91-94 octane fuel, with the alcohol, at 22-25 psi boost levels with fairly aggressive timing tables in them.

Great power adder, especially for the guy that doesn't want to mess with race gas.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

[DavidV]

I just posted my comments here:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=120030

"Here comes my $0.02

Water is a more effective anti-detonant than any form of alcohol. To understand this, you have to understand what octane measures. Octane references how easily fuel ignites. The higher the octane, the higher the ignition point. Alcohol raises the effective octane of pump gas. A good alcohol injection system can raise your effective octane to make pump gas behave as though it were as high as 96 octane...

...but...

... pure water raises it even further. In addition, alcohol doesn't cool as well in the cylinder as water, since water has a very high latent heat of evaporation (the actual method by which heat is removed from the cylinder -- the physical process by which liquid water vapor turns to steam). Whatever benefits alcohol may have of absorbing heat pre-combustion as compared to water, are significantly overshadowed by water's effectiveness during combustion -- which is, after all, where a water injection really shines. Add to this the fact that alcohol is much less stable than water from a tuning standpoint (makes it hard to nail down a stable tune), and I guess I can only see one really good reason to use alcohol over water -- if your fuel system is borderline for the amount of boost you would like to run. However, a fuel system that is near max capacity seems to me an odd premise for adding an alcohol injection system. I would either upgrade the fuel system if you insist on running uber rich, or use water injection to run a significantly leaner and meaner tune by reaping the benefits of increased octane and better in-cylinder cooling as compared to alcohol.

If anyone has info to the contrary, please post up. I'm not trying to pick any fights, but I have spent years around this stuff and I always find it fascinating when alcohol/methanol/propane/C02/etc is presented as the next big thing over water, when plain old water seems to win from a physics standpoint every time.

I'm not saying alcohol injection doesn't work -- it clearly does -- I'm just saying for people with adequate fuel systems, water works better."

-- DavidV :D

[Evo442]

David - what kind of safety features does your system have, for example if the alcohol injector get clogged or if you run out of alcohol from the tank?

What kind of HP gains are you seeing from stock boost with say 91 octane to 23 lbs boost with etoh injection?




We have a kick ass alcohol injection kit out right now. The controller itself is about the size of a pack of cigerettes. The bottle for the resevoir is the stock i/c sprayer bottle, this leaves the factory intercooler sprayer not working. The alcohol is injected in the upper i/c pipe. The kit is progressive so the time when the pump comes on and the time when the pump maxes out can be controlled.

I have used these on turbo Buicks for years but never pushed it much on imports. Now that we started installing them on EVO's I can't say enough good about them. They just amaze me.

I am doing tunes in EVO's on 91-94 octane fuel, with the alcohol, at 22-25 psi boost levels with fairly aggressive timing tables in them.

Great power adder, especially for the guy that doesn't want to mess with race gas.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com