ECU Reflash FAQ

[JanSolo]

Hey guys, I am currently putting together a list of questions for ECU reflashers (except Al because I don't have a spell checker powerful enough to fix his his primal attempts at English) and I was wondering if you guys had any questions you wanted to submit. Just think about everything you've ever wanted to know about the Xflash or Works P2 but were afraid to ask and then post them in this public forum for everyone to see. ;)

For instance - and these are just examples.

- How does the reflash change boost taper?
- Does the reflash allow you to raise boost?
- Is the reflash end user tunable presently or will it be in the future?
- Do you sell custom reflashes that take into account current modifications of my car (ie: exhaust, cone style filter, etc.)?

Thanks in advance for any questions you guys can contribute.

[vtluu]

How about:
- Does the reflash raise the rev limit? (And if so, is this safe?)
- How easily can a dealer detect a reflashed ECU?

(I will update this post with further questions as they occur to me...)

[xchoirboy]

Hey Jan did you think about changing your map to test the differences?

[JanSolo]

Hey Jan did you think about changing your map to test the differences?

I don't think I have a way to change my map.

[ob4]

what i like to see is a data loging done on a car b4 and after reflash. ie, timing info, fuel trim, boost numbers, map readings and injector duty cycle numbers, this way we will be able to tell what has changed. too bad, i am still in the process of finding a good data logging sw... the best i've seen is pocketlogger with 20 samples per second.

-ob4

[howiEVO8]

can i use the P2 with the Xede? or was that a stupid question? lolz

[JanSolo]

Yes you can, but you probably don't want to. :) I think the Xede would compliment the Xflash as Shiv can tune it to do so. I am sure he could help you with a custom Xede map to work with the P2, but I would think there is no point to it at all. If you're going to go Xede, get the Xflash as well.

Actually, Shiv could definitely answer this about 1000 times better than I just did.

[wilson1]

can i use the P2 with the Xede? or was that a stupid question? lolz

Yes, but you won't be able to use any of their off the shelf maps.
Like what Jan said, if you want to do it cleanly, then it is best.

On the other hand, since some of us has already paid for the P2, then it's liked 600 bucks down the toilet if you flash it back to stock and should you decided eventually selling the car, then you can sell the Xede and still have the P2 intacted.

Just many ways to do it, pick which one fits you.
Btw, Shiv can tune the Xede to whatever we got , guess that's the beauty of it :wink:

[howiEVO8]

i was reading a previous SCC mag with the vishnu stage 0+
and it had the car timed at 0-60 in 4.7 seconds with all those mods on it ...while Motor Trend go the car to do 4.59 seconds STOCk...what gives? the reason i'm bringing this up is cuz the vishnu stage 0+ has the remapped ECU and Xede...

[vtluu]

0-60 times depend on so many variables: environmental conditions (temperature/humidity/altitude), grip on the starting pad and track, driver skill, tires, etc... Unless you're maybe comparing two Evos driven by the same driver at about the same time of day, comparing times is like comparing apples and oranges. And even the same driver will have good runs and bad runs.

[howiEVO8]

0-60 times depend on so many variables: environmental conditions (temperature/humidity/altitude), grip on the starting pad and track, driver skill, tires, etc... Unless you're maybe comparing two Evos driven by the same driver at about the same time of day, comparing times is like comparing apples and oranges. And even the same driver will have good runs and bad runs.

yuhh..but if he was a good driver...he'd be more consistent ;)

oreo?

[JanSolo]

Then there is the issue of the cars being supplied to the major mags being ringers, aka cars that are more powerful than the standard cars you buy off the lot. That might be your explanation right there and I would not put it past Mitsu to do that.

[howiEVO8]

Then there is the issue of the cars being supplied to the major mags being ringers, aka cars that are more powerful than the standard cars you buy off the lot. That might be your explanation right there and I would not put it past Mitsu to do that.

tru..i've heard about that...i know for sure that the stock JDM evo VIII six speed does 0-60 in 4.6...and does the quarter in 12.6...but then again they're using 100 octane

[warpspeed]

How about this. I don't want to start anything. what about this question. Is there any difference in the Xflash compared to Works P2 or P1. Have one that has the Xflash and the other Works and let them switch cars and see if they can feel any difference.

[vtluu]

Then there is the issue of the cars being supplied to the major mags being ringers, aka cars that are more powerful than the standard cars you buy off the lot. That might be your explanation right there and I would not put it past Mitsu to do that.
What an outrage! Graphics chips manufacturers would never do that with new graphics cards... uh, yeah... :sneaky:

My apologies for driving this thread off-topic.

[JanSolo]

How about this. I don't want to start anything. what about this question. Is there any difference in the Xflash compared to Works P2 or P1. Have one that has the Xflash and the other Works and let them switch cars and see if they can feel any difference.

Hmm.. that is a good question, of course - but I was hoping to make the FAQ specific to each ECU and then just have the vendor answer them accordingly.

BUT, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to take a car with a P2 with the exact same mods as another car with the Xflash and compare them, either with a butt dyno or the real thing. It's a sticky thing though since whomever comes out not looking so good will find something to complain about and declare the contest unfair. Again, I think it's reasonable, but I don't know if the tuners will.

But we should probably try to get talking about what questions you guys have for the tuners.

How about - will your reflash save me gas? What are the long term effects of the reflash on my engine? What AFR does your baseline flash run?

[nebolic]

yo jansolo and vtluu...

I will be a guinea pig for you if you'd like.... I am getting my P2 reflash this week and all i have is a 3 inch catback and drop in filter, i think those are standard mods, therefore if someone gets an xflash we can compare the two. I promise i wont be a biznitch and complain if my $hitz not puling out power, cuz i dont really care.

[vtluu]

I will be a guinea pig for you if you'd like.... I am getting my P2 reflash this week and all i have is a 3 inch catback and drop in filter, i think those are standard mods, therefore if someone gets an xflash we can compare the two. I promise i wont be a biznitch and complain if my $hitz not puling out power, cuz i dont really care.
So much for:

Stock Black Evo 8, keeping it stock.
:lol:

I think the only fair way to compare the two flashes would be to neutralize all other variables by using the same car, same gas, same dyno, same day, etc... Not too complicated logistically but I doubt Vishnu and/or Works would agree to such a thing.

[nebolic]

hehe i got the stealth mods, kind of, except for the exhaust, you should read my other post, moddings an addiction.....

[JanSolo]

I will be a guinea pig for you if you'd like.... I am getting my P2 reflash this week and all i have is a 3 inch catback and drop in filter, i think those are standard mods, therefore if someone gets an xflash we can compare the two. I promise i wont be a biznitch and complain if my $hitz not puling out power, cuz i dont really care.
So much for:

Stock Black Evo 8, keeping it stock.
:lol:

I think the only fair way to compare the two flashes would be to neutralize all other variables by using the same car, same gas, same dyno, same day, etc... Not too complicated logistically but I doubt Vishnu and/or Works would agree to such a thing.

Best way to know would be to ask. Let me ask Shiv from Vishnu and Pete from Works and see if the are interested. I doubt this will work out, but we might as well try.

[warpspeed]

Well like I said, I didn't want to start any friction between the tuners. they are both great. Also we got to keep in mind that the Evos are not alike from the factory( we all know that). I am probably going with Shiv since he is closer.

[Shiv@Vishnu]

Hi guys,

Let me know what questions you have regarding our XFlash. I'll be happy to answer them.

Cheers,
shiv

[JanSolo]

Hi guys,

Let me know what questions you have regarding our XFlash. I'll be happy to answer them.

Cheers,
shiv

Ok, would you be willing to participate in the NorCalEvo.net Reflash Challenge?? :)

Three competitors enter, only one leaves as the victor. Who will it be?

Our competitors: Schizoid Al and his Dynoflush, Shiv "The Tuning Titan" from Vishnu Tuning and "Pistol" Pete from WorksRally.

Hopefully, coming soon..

[wilson1]

[Our competitors: Schizoid Al and his Dynoflush, Shiv "The Tuning Titan" from Vishnu Tuning and "Pistol" Pete from WorksRally.

Hopefully, coming soon..

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[wilson1]

Actually , from what i have seen, P2 and the Xflash are very close in terms of hp gains.

[evo_dadi]

i like that jan!! maybe an event for the next meet ;)

as with flashes i still havent found any real answers if they cooperate with ebc's.since i dont really feel like getting rid of not unless necessary since just installing it on takes a while.

[Shiv@Vishnu]

Actually , from what i have seen, P2 and the Xflash are very close in terms of hp gains.

Where have you seen this? :wink:

[xchoirboy]

Hey Jan did you get your dyno'd? As you know I've done nothing to my car. Maybe it's I got a Tuesday car :lol: . I can't remember if you had any mods on yours. It think the proof would be at the dyno.

[JanSolo]

Hey Jan did you get your dyno'd? As you know I've done nothing to my car. Maybe it's I got a Tuesday car :lol: . I can't remember if you had any mods on yours. It think the proof would be at the dyno.

I agree about the dyno. But, then there is varying perspective - some believe that peak power does not matter compared to the curve itself.

From what Shiv has shown me of P2 vs Xflash dyno runs, the Xflash base reflash generally gains 10 more whp - stock vs stock, on his dyno.

This brings us back to the Xflash vs P2. We really should cut the tuners out of this and do this ourselves. Get two theoretically identical cars and dyno them somewhere and attempt to end the debate ourselves.

Here is what we could do.

1. Fill up on the exact same gas.
2. Use the same exhaust - only takes an hour or so to swap exhausts back and forth to cars, faster if we have a lift. This way, no one can argue that a specific exhaust gave one car any sort of advantage.

Any other rules we could add to make this as even as possible?

Any volunteers? I am willing to volunteer my P2 flashed Evo. Anyone with an Xflash that wants to help end the debate (hint, hint Leroy).

[xchoirboy]

Hey Jan did you get your dyno'd? As you know I've done nothing to my car. Maybe it's I got a Tuesday car :lol: . I can't remember if you had any mods on yours. It think the proof would be at the dyno.

I agree about the dyno. But, then there is varying perspective - some believe that peak power does not matter compared to the curve itself.

From what Shiv has shown me of P2 vs Xflash dyno runs, the Xflash base reflash generally gains 10 more whp - stock vs stock, on his dyno.

This brings us back to the Xflash vs P2. We really should cut the tuners out of this and do this ourselves. Get two theoretically identical cars and dyno them somewhere and attempt to end the debate ourselves.

Here is what we could do.

1. Fill up on the exact same gas.
2. Use the same exhaust - only takes an hour or so to swap exhausts back and forth to cars, faster if we have a lift. This way, no one can argue that a specific exhaust gave one car any sort of advantage.

Any other rules we could add to make this as even as possible?

Any volunteers? I am willing to volunteer my P2 flashed Evo. Anyone with an Xflash that wants to help end the debate (hint, hint Leroy).

So are u saying you're going to change your exhuast? :lol: Bring it on!! Although I hadn't planned on adding anything onto my car at this point. Anyway it should be interesting.

[JanSolo]

So are u saying you're going to change your exhuast? :lol: Bring it on!! Although I hadn't planned on adding anything onto my car at this point. Anyway it should be interesting.

I have a Buschur exhaust. What we could do is either put my stock exhaust back on OR put my Buschur exhaust on your car for the dyno pull. Putting the stock exhaust on my car is probably easier, but just thought I would throw out either option to you.

[vtluu]

Any volunteers? I am willing to volunteer my P2 flashed Evo. Anyone with an Xflash that wants to help end the debate (hint, hint Leroy).
I still think that there would be car-to-car variability that would throw your results into question. You could take two cars w/same exhaust (and everything else) and no ECU flash, dyno both on the same dyno, get each of them flashed (one with Xflash, one with Works), and dyno them both again on the same dyno. The delta (before/after) on each car should be telling... but then one might argue that different cars respond differently to flashing.

If I had a ton of spare cash, what I would do is take a single car with no reflash, dyno it, get the Works flash, dyno it again, get it Xflashed (presumably this overwrites the Works flash), and dyno it again (all three times on the same dyno). Of course all this flashing back and forth burns money--hence the need for aforementioned ton of spare cash. This need not cost anything if Vishnu and Works agreed to such a comparison--whether or not they would, is another question. Anyway even if the results showed one "better" than the other, the results for a different car (or certainly, different mods) could still be very different.

After all is said and done, one could finally argue that a dyno run peak also should not be the sole basis for comparison. One could apply other metrics such as overall drivability, long-term reliability, etc. Some of those could only be measured statistically--and only if we had a large number of samples. Short of that, any evidence one way or the other remains largely anecdotal.

[JanSolo]

It looks like the car to car variance is pretty big. Obviously, if we had tuner interaction with this, it easier, but there is little chance of that happening so we will have to make do. Actually, we technically do not need all the tuners involved - we could just get one car with a flash from one tuner and then get another tuner there to perform their flash.

All this depends on what we are arguing about, of course. I think most people here are probably looking for power, since if reliability was the highest priority, they would probably would not mod their cars, drive them hard or consider a reflash.

Obviously, people want an answer to this and since no tuners are doing it, we might as well do it ourselves. It might not answer all the questions or be perfect way to gauge everything, but it will give us some answers.

[xchoirboy]

Still wondering what's up with with this XFlash Challenge.