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JanSolo
04-09-2008, 10:15 AM
From the Motortrend story about the BMW 135i vs the Evo X MR.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison/index.html


http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_25z+BMW_135_vs_lancer_evolution_MR+lap_di agram.jpg

player67
04-09-2008, 10:26 AM
hmmmmmmm interesting. Id still take a 335i over em tho :lol:

ZK
04-09-2008, 10:29 AM
Nice article! I know many people were comparing these two cars as they're in the same price range.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 10:31 AM
very interesting.. and what would be the outcome if the 335i had a rear diff and tires on par with the evo?(becuase the runflats clearly are no ADVANS).. to me this just points out that the X is severely underpowered in factoryÂ* trim...its got a "super car" transmission and suspension, and should not be pacing a race track with an overpowered "chic" car. Get the car up to 330whp though and its going to be flying!

These performance charts are really sweet BTW

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 10:35 AM
Good Job MR.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 10:36 AM
So the X MR couldn't lose the 135i and kept getting passed. But ultimately because of the corners it eventually came out victorious.

Glad I'm picking the Evo.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 10:39 AM
yeah once the course became more complicated the 135 looks like it had a hard time handling the transitions .. but consider the advantage of ADVANS vs crappy run flats.. no rear diff for the 135.....These are the first things trackers will fix no? probably increase the power of the evo to 300whp+, on the 135I.. close to 390whp + sticky tires and diff... Id be curious to see real world results from owners next year.



So the X MR couldn't lose the 135i and kept getting passed. But ultimately because of the corners it eventually came out victorious.

Glad I'm picking the Evo.

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 10:40 AM
runflats carry a 140 ratingÂ* they are sticky as hell. They are right about the evo, daily driving get old after a certain amount of time, other than that, the car is a blast. Also,BMW claims that open diff is advantageous to their set up's that is why no new bmw has an lsd.

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 10:41 AM
runflats carry a 140 rating they are sticky as hell. They are right about the evo, daily driving get old after a certain amount of time, other than that, the car is a blast.


Maybe the Evo X just needs a bit of sound deadening to make it a bit more tolerable as a daily driver?

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 10:44 AM
^^^ agreed. However for a certain demographic evo's are a second car so I dont know if "softening" it will help or hurt.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:44 AM
LOL a luxury sports car with runflats and no lsd, loosing to a hardcore sports car geared specificly towards the track. Hmmm who would have figured???? Maybe a bit more of a fair comparison would have been the gsr vs. The standard 135i and the MR vs. The 135i Tii? But then again when is it really fair to compare a bmw to a shitsubishi? Ummm yeah, never.

ZK
04-09-2008, 10:45 AM
Maybe the Evo X just needs a bit of sound deadening to make it a bit more tolerable as a daily driver?


I thought the Evo X is miles ahead in daily driver friendliness over the Evo 8/9?

UCB
04-09-2008, 10:45 AM
I think those 390whp figures you are talking about are highly inflated

335is are barely cracking into the 11s IIRC

rodw
04-09-2008, 10:46 AM
MSRP for the X: $38,640

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:48 AM
sammy the Tii will have a LSD, and bmw is making HUGE claims as to its advantage. Also acs installed one and said it transformed the car completely.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 10:53 AM
Maybe the Evo X just needs a bit of sound deadening to make it a bit more tolerable as a daily driver?

The X MR has 13lbs more sound deadening than the GSR. I wouldn't want that weight going up anymore then it already has. :shock:





LOL a luxury sports car with runflats and no lsd, loosing to a hardcore sports car geared specificly towards the track.
Ooooh, so now the "Automatic" X MR is hardcore? :lol:

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:54 AM
runflats carry a 140 ratingÂ* they are sticky as hell. They are right about the evo, daily driving get old after a certain amount of time, other than that, the car is a blast. Also,BMW claims that open diff is advantageous to their set up's that is why no new bmw has an lsd.


sticky doesnt mean its a fast tire. You tracked your 335i so don't tell me rhode tires are as good as advans. Why do you think every car magazine has bitched about them on every test they ever do? Cause they suck arse, that's why.

I'm not saying that the x isn't a good car, but to bash the 135i because its a few seconds slower around a track seems rather stupid.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 10:56 AM
on daily driving the evo.........is this still an issue with the SST? I was pretty excited for the SST and the automatic mode, which would allow the driver to veg out for awhile instead of having to be so damn intense all the time.

And on the subject of Runflats.. they just suck any which way, the GY supercar funflats on the C6 are almost $2000 a just feel dangerous. I hate runflats.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:56 AM
the x mr is geared specificly for the track. IMO its still gay for having a auto though. I never said it wasn't useful or faster.... Just homo.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 11:00 AM
thats for traction reasons.. and poor 60fts, most modded C6 are barely cracking into the 11s for example, but they areÂ* trapping 120mph+Â* Â*The modded 335is pull hard once they are moving.



I think those 390whp figures you are talking about are highly inflated

335is are barely cracking into the 11s IIRC

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 11:02 AM
runflats carry a 140 rating they are sticky as hell. They are right about the evo, daily driving get old after a certain amount of time, other than that, the car is a blast. Also,BMW claims that open diff is advantageous to their set up's that is why no new bmw has an lsd.


sticky doesnt mean its a fast tire. You tracked your 335i so don't tell me rhode tires are as good as advans. Why do you think every car magazine has bitched about them on every test they ever do? Cause they suck arse, that's why.

I'm not saying that the x isn't a good car, but to bash the 135i because its a few seconds slower around a track seems rather stupid.


Doo relax...lol. The run flats are re050 bridgestones, I did drive it on the track and I was surprised how well they handled. I am not bashing the 135i I actually implied that they are right about it the car, it is a good daily driver and ok for track day so over all it will be a more useful car. MR is a mitsu that we all love.

Sorry if I confused you mighty Steevo8 ...please dont hurt me.........

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 11:03 AM
the x mr is geared specificly for the track. IMO its still gay for having a auto though. I never said it wasn't useful or faster.... Just homo.

lol, Fair enough. :lol:



on daily driving the evo.........is this still an issue with the SST? I was pretty excited for the SST and the automatic mode, which would allow the driver to veg out for awhile instead of having to be so damn intense all the time.
Exactly. The X MR will be my DD and the 580-680 is jammed everyday and the most annoying this is staying in 1st gear, stop and go....

The SST has been fixed according to Mitsubishi and the only thing they're waiting for is to ship them to the states, then of course there's customs to wait for..... :?

bdking57
04-09-2008, 11:04 AM
I want to see someone develope some mad left foot braking skills and brake boost that baby all over the autox track.

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 11:07 AM
I want to see someone develope some mad left foot braking skills and brake boost that baby all over the autox track.


Also throw in a LS6.........lol.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:19 AM
MR is a mitsu that we all love.


I ain't trippin yo. Your entitled to your opinion.. Even though its faulty :D

As for the above comment speak for your self. IMO thing only thing the X MR is good for is pictures and to be a track car.

Interior= the loss
auto sports car= the loss
price= the loss
no more 4g63= the loss

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 11:27 AM
no more 4g63= the loss


It sucks that all this development from tuners goes down the drain, yes, but it remains to be see what kind of power people can squeeze out of 4b11. So let's not take out our jump to conclusions map just yet regarding this engine.

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 11:33 AM
Steevo8..... you are impossible.....lol.....

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 11:34 AM
Steevo8..... you are impossible.....lol.....


He's just opinionated, but that does not necessarily mean he is correct.

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Jan,

He is a cool kid... opinionated is an understatement.... ha ha.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:42 AM
what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:44 AM
I have not stated anything as fact really. So theres nothing for me to be correct or incorrect on. Opinionated? Yes I agree :D

fiaevo.com
04-09-2008, 11:46 AM
what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.


+ 1 billion

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 11:46 AM
what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.


It's simple economics: Tuners will develop parts for the car if there is market demand. If the car sells well and there are flaws present in the stock version of the car, then people will develop parts because people want it. If the car sells poorly, no matter how many upgrades can be developed for it, due to lack of demand, development will be low for the X.

chrisw
04-09-2008, 11:50 AM
what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.


It's simple economics: Tuners will develop parts for the car if there is market demand. If the car sells well and there are flaws present in the stock version of the car, then people will develop parts because people want it. If the car sells poorly, no matter how many upgrades can be developed for it, due to lack of demand, development will be low for the X.


very true. that's why we still see people selling part for the old venerable 4g63 in the DSM. Granted these vendors are getting far and few, but it's not bad for a car that's been out of production for almost 10 years.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:52 AM
I agree, and regardless of how well it does or doesn't do, the demise of the mivec 4g63 will cut the development process short as compared to if they would have kept it in the X.






what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.


It's simple economics: Tuners will develop parts for the car if there is market demand.Â* If the car sells well and there are flaws present in the stock version of the car, then people will develop parts because people want it.Â* If the car sells poorly, no matter how many upgrades can be developed for it, due to lack of demand, development will be low for the X.

chrisw
04-09-2008, 12:06 PM
I agree, and regardless of how well it does or doesn't do, the demise of the mivec 4g63 will cut the development process short as compared to if they would have kept it in the X.






what sucks about the 4b11 is that its going to make the top developers stop developing parts for the 4g63. If they would have done a 4g63 I think it would have struck a lot more evo owners eyes because then you could swap some parts over from your viii or ix and trade your car in on one while not falling behind as much and having to buy parts.


It's simple economics: Tuners will develop parts for the car if there is market demand. If the car sells well and there are flaws present in the stock version of the car, then people will develop parts because people want it. If the car sells poorly, no matter how many upgrades can be developed for it, due to lack of demand, development will be low for the X.



I disagree with that. As long as there are people in the EVO community that want to race with the 4g63, then development will continue, albit privately with little factory support.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 12:06 PM
Eventually everyone moves on. It's High School syndrome all over again. You've been in 1 place a long time and don't want to leave what you know.

The X is a step in a different direction in terms of looks and engine type. But it's good for the same amount of power. Sure you have to pour money into it to get it there, but the same is true for current Evo's. Power aint cheap.

If the Evo X had the same asthetics and engine as the Evo IX, then Mitsu would be going against the very name of the "Evolution".

Even you yourself Steve poke fun at poor sales of Mitsu, well, this is their attempt to step in a new direction and garner more appeal for their flagship vehicle. So if anything you should be happy that they're are trying to appeal to more people and retain their loyalists at the same time.

With it being so different, they cant keep everyone, and make everyone happy, but it would be bad business not to try.

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 12:15 PM
I disagree with that. As long as there are people in the EVO community that want to race with the 4g63, then development will continue, albit privately with little factory support.


Yeah, 4G63 development will not die to a standstill, but it will certainly slow down to a trickle. There are still people working on aged Hondas and such that are no longer being produced, but the rate of development is at a crawl compared to when the cars were in production.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 12:17 PM
I just think they should try harder. I'm all good with change but along with evolution shouldn't things get better? The interior is obviously still shitsubishi interior. Why didn't their quality "evolve"? Why make it heavier? Shouldn't it be lighter? Yeah it might help sales some to water down a car to appeal to a larger market but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 12:22 PM
I just think they should try harder. I'm all good with change but along with evolution shouldn't things get better? The interior is obviously still shitsubishi interior. Why didn't their quality "evolve"? Why make it heavier? Shouldn't it be lighter? Yeah it might help sales some to water down a car to appeal to a larger market but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.

You make good points. The only excuse I can think Mitsu would pass along is cost. If they started using BMW type quality what would the price be? As for wieght, I imagine that's due to strict U.S. regulations and the new equipment. Aren't they lighter in Japan?

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 12:23 PM
I just think they should try harder. I'm all good with change but along with evolution shouldn't things get better? The interior is obviously still shitsubishi interior. Why didn't their quality "evolve"? Why make it heavier? Shouldn't it be lighter? Yeah it might help sales some to water down a car to appeal to a larger market but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.


There is not one vehicle out that does not have detractors. The interior is purely about economies of scale - create standardized parts that can be shared across platforms.

The X did get better and worse versus the Evo 8 and 9. Not every change is going to be completely positive in every possible aspect. While the weight has gone up, so has chassis stiffness and I'd venture to guess that the Evo X is better in a crash than the 8 or 9 as well. The Evo X also performs better on a skid pad versus the 8 & 9, yet has lost it's insanely quick ratio steering. So, yes, there are negative aspects as the car moves up in releases, but there are clearly positive improvements as well.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 12:25 PM
I have a dream, that one day shitsubishi will BRING BACK the 4g63 with mivec on not only one cam but BOTH! I have a dream that one day my children will be able to buy a mitsubishi with a quality interior, one that will not rattle with the addition of large cams. I have a dream, that mitsubishi will not royaly fuck their customers on warranty claims!




:( its a shame that this is only a dream though as I am pretty sure none of the above will ever happen.

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 12:44 PM
I have a dream, that one day shitsubishi will BRING BACK the 4g63 with mivec on not only one cam but BOTH! I have a dream that one day my children will be able to buy a mitsubishi with a quality interior, one that will not rattle with the addition of large cams. I have a dream, that mitsubishi will not royaly fuck their customers on warranty claims!


Welcome to the world of business. There is no way that Mitsu is going to throw out the R&D dollars spent on the 4B11. As for quality interiors, I always thought the Diamante had a decent interior for any comparable car for that time period, but certainly the Evo has never been about a plush interior, but rather the performance aspects of the car and while the price tag has certainly scaled, someone ultimately has to pay for the extra bits such as ACD/AYC, the MR's new automatic transmission that is getting rave reviews and the R&D costs for the 4B11. Unfortunately, car companies are not run by rich, generous hippies that want to just hand out money to the world for nothing or who can afford to eat R&D costs. And it's not as if the Evo 8 & 9 were selling in extremely high volumes like the Camry and Ford F150 are, where R&D costs can be spread out more thinly due to high sales, where margins are less thin. This is a low sales volume vehicle and Mitsubishi probably feels justified raising the price of the car especially considering the fact that this small market will be less sensitive to price fluctuations.

ZK
04-09-2008, 12:53 PM
Higher quality interior materials on Mitsubishi = higher costs. If you're ready to pay up for BMW 335i price on an Evo then I'm sure Mitsubishi can make a quality interior.

But in the real world, no one wants to pay that much for an Evo and most Evo buyers could care less. You're basically paying bargain basement price for a high performance car - the costs have to come out of somewhere.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 12:55 PM
I just think they should try harder. I'm all good with change but along with evolution shouldn't things get better? The interior is obviously still shitsubishi interior. Why didn't their quality "evolve"? Why make it heavier? Shouldn't it be lighter? Yeah it might help sales some to water down a car to appeal to a larger market but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.


I think every version of the Evolution has gained weight over the previous version. The tech however has always evolved for each new evo version.

Interior has never been the strong point on the Evo. I think the biggest jump in interior "quality" was from the 6 to the 7. It is obviously not what this car is about.

Also remember that the Evo is and has always been based on the Lancer platform. Couple that with ever expanding safety features, etc.

I can't even imagine what some of the meetings are like for the Evo engineering team after a new Lancer platform is released.

"How the hell are we going to make this one work in Evo trim?!?!?"

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 01:02 PM
"How the hell are we going to make this one work in Evo trim?!?!?"

Widen the body, get better seats and give that bish a Turbo.

:lol:

steevo8
04-09-2008, 01:33 PM
everyone keeps bringing up that it would raise the price of the car if they used higher quality materials. And yes I do agree.. BUT that is why the 135i is so bad ass! You do get a better built car, with higher quality materials, that rides better, has just as much power if not more, mod friendly, WAY better warranty, ect...... For the same price. Then to bash it when compared to a car that beat it on a track by 3sec. :? If the driving dynamics are similar to the e36 like they are said to be, a lot of you evo X nut swingers will be over looking what could potentially be a GREAT car.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 01:36 PM
noÂ* mistake about it.. engine wise 135I >>>> Evo X. The TT BMW engine is likely to be the best bang for your dollar engine since.. well the 4g63. Which brings me to this point...why on earth, when mitsu has dropped out of the WRC, insists on sticking with the 2.0 liter (when there primary competition doesnt) when the car has evolved beyond a rally racer to a legitimate road race car. IMO they should have found some cost effective way to release the standard evo X with a 2.0 liter and a light weight body to conform to tradition, and the MR model should have featured a much larger.. perhaps even a TT V6.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 01:44 PM
no mistake about it.. engine wise 135I >>>> Evo X. The TT BMW engine is likely to be the best bang for your dollar engine since.. well the 4g63.


You obviously haven't been following the 4B11 developments then.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 01:45 PM
the only thing this test showed me is that IF you were to track your car bone stock, you would most likely be faster with the X MR. BUT! Who the hell tracks a bone stock car for long?

bdking57
04-09-2008, 01:46 PM
I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons... while the aftermarket is a completely different story, its pretty annoying that you spend 35K on "track car" and then you get walked by commuter car of equal price... Mitsu was hinting at the fact a year before release that the car would be 330bhp and "significantly" faster.. and it was a total bust, meanwhile they will be like usual.. voiding warranties for mods.





no mistake about it.. engine wise 135I >>>> Evo X. The TT BMW engine is likely to be the best bang for your dollar engine since.. well the 4g63.


You obviously haven't been following the 4B11 developments then.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 01:50 PM
should have come like that is my point.......for bench racers if nothing else :lol:





I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.




I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 01:52 PM
umm the 4b11 is doing almost 300awhp with a air filter and tune. :shock: trust me, I'm impessed. But you can't strap a bunch of hp to a bucket of shit and call it cool. IMO I look for as complete a package as possible. I'll take a few less hp in order to have a car that doesn't rattle or vibrate.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 01:54 PM
Ok see this is the problem with your "points". You try to make one, then when somebody disproves it, you change your point.

You said "or with basic boltons" in the post above, but now once I showed how the 4B11 responds with about as freakin' basic bolt ons as possible you say "should have come like that".

You even made a statement like this earlier in the thread saying the bmw "should have" come with a LSD and no run flats.

So are we discussing stock cars or basic bolt ons, used cars, new cars or real cars with you? Or are your posts just going to continue to be moving targets?



should have come like that is my point.





I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.




I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 01:54 PM
hey come one now.. as far as refinement, its probably the nicest mitsu ever.. im also pretty jelous driving around in my creaky spanish galeon.



umm the 4b11 is doing almost 300awhp with a air filter and tune. :shock: trust me, I'm impessed. But you can't strap a bunch of hp to a bucket of shit and call it cool. IMO I look for as complete a package as possible. I'll take a few less hp in order to have a car that doesn't rattle or vibrate.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 01:59 PM
hmm I guess your making a good point! Im just rather confused because I feel the car should have had more power, and then it would have handidly whoop the rest of the competition.. yet still left a little on the table to basic tuning and what not without having to go overboard. The Evo has a reuptation to uphold while the 135i is.. well a good value commuter car, and probably wont be viewed as much more by the general public. I was expecting "mini me godzilla" from the Evo XÂ* :lol:......There is now a huge void in japanese sports cars between the GTR and the next best thing, evo and STi.... I feel like they should have went up market with the MR model and filled this level of performance. 70K Vs 38K....




Ok see this is the problem with your "points". You try to make one, then when somebody disproves it, you change your point.

You said "or with basic boltons" in the post above, but now once I showed how the 4B11 responds with about as freakin' basic bolt ons as possible you say "should have come like that".

You even made a statement like this earlier in the thread saying the bmw "should have" come with a LSD and no run flats.

So are we discussing stock cars or basic bolt ons, used cars, new cars or real cars with you? Or are your posts just going to continue to be moving targets?



should have come like that is my point.





I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.




I know that tuners will be able to work some magic on it, and mitsu is probably holding back powerwise to increase in subsequent years.. for now im talking about stock output, or with basic boltons.


Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 02:08 PM
hmm I guess your making a good point! Im just rather confused because I feel the car should have had more power, and then it would have handidly whoop the rest of the competition.. yet still left a little on the table to basic tuning and what not without having to go overboard. The Evo has a reuptation to uphold while the 135i is.. well a good value commuter car, and probably wont be viewed as much more by the general public. I was expecting "mini me godzilla" from the Evo X :lol:


I'm not going to pretend I know what is going on with Corporate Mitsu but I would imagine they keep it at a certain HP level as to be very close to their competition as far as power output wise (think STi, etc). Not too over or too under.I would imagine this leaves them headroom to increase power if needed to keep up with the competition. Think of it as a constant shark game between the companies. We all know both the STi and the Evo could be released with 50+ whp more than current with no issues whatsoever.

From what I have seen the 4B11 has a serious handicap put on it from the factory. It is bar-none the richest AFR turbocharged Mitsubishi has ever put out. The Mivec system is also very very pulled back with the factory tune. However the motor itself is over-built a ton. Once we get to tuning the new 4B11, I would not be surprised to see 300whp on our dyno, out of a stock Evo 10 with an open filter and tune. That would truly be an evolution. Stock Evo 9's with comparable changes do about 270-280whp.

player67
04-09-2008, 02:10 PM
LOL a luxury sports car with runflats and no lsd, loosing to a hardcore sports car geared specificly towards the track. Hmmm who would have figured???? Maybe a bit more of a fair comparison would have been the gsr vs. The standard 135i and the MR vs. The 135i Tii? But then again when is it really fair to compare a bmw to a shitsubishi? Ummm yeah, never.


Me and you think too alike its scary....

dabaysevo
04-09-2008, 02:18 PM
I have a dream, that one day shitsubishi will BRING BACK the 4g63 with mivec on not only one cam but BOTH!

:( its a shame that this is only a dream though as I am pretty sure none of the above will ever happen.


I share your dream. I really wished they went all out with the SE. They should have let the 4G63 go out with a bang. MIVEC on both cams, a twin scroll TD06 with a slightly larger hotside. Then man up the brakes to 2pc factory rotors and monoblock calipers, like the did on the RA-R for the last STI. Add factory one piece seat options, re-calibrated bilsteins, and dry carbon accent bits for the JDM nut swingers. That car would have been tits and worthy of a $36-39K price tag. The imaginary TD06 housing would have been the perfect base for a FP Red turbo.

Instead we got a MR without bilsteins, vortex generator, and 6-spd. Other than the lack of 6-spd, what's so special? That's Mitsubishi for you. :lol:

dabaysevo
04-09-2008, 02:24 PM
BUT! Who the hell tracks a bone stock car for long?


<-----This guy. :lol: Other than the catback, there isn't anything major done to my car.

ZK
04-09-2008, 02:29 PM
BUT! Who the hell tracks a bone stock car for long?


<-----This guy. :lol: Other than the catback, there isn't anything major done to my car.



+1 Still stock here. I'm just lowered.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 02:35 PM
and the MR model should have featured a much larger.. perhaps even a TT V6.

I agree. I wish the gap between MR and GSR was much more different. The MR being the formidable Evo. The baller Evo. Kinda like how the FQ models have stages in power.

Speaking of TT V6, when's the next Supra coming out?



Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

+1

steevo8
04-09-2008, 02:52 PM
if you guys that are stock bought cars with runflats I'm pretty sure you would at least change them. IMO tires, pads, lines, fluid are a must on almost all cars.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 02:54 PM
in reality.. the current MR is no different then the Z51 Vs base C6 corvette....the packages are similiar.. Its not like a Z06, GT3, GT2, M series etc packages that brings an new engine and new body to the table. Maybe Mitsu will suprise us and bring the ralliart Evo over.. I would expect a different turbo at the very least.




and the MR model should have featured a much larger.. perhaps even a TT V6.

I agree. I wish the gap between MR and GSR was much more different. The MR being the formidable Evo. The baller Evo. Kinda like how the FQ models have stages in power.

Speaking of TT V6, when's the next Supra coming out?



Again, you haven't been following the 4b11 developments then. +22whp/+22wtq with a bolt on air filter. +26whp with a MBC. +48whp with two parts with no tuning yet? If that's not bang for the buck, I dunno what is.

+1

awdaddict
04-09-2008, 03:01 PM
I have a dream, that one day shitsubishi will BRING BACK the 4g63 with mivec on not only one cam but BOTH!

:( its a shame that this is only a dream though as I am pretty sure none of the above will ever happen.


I share your dream. I really wished they went all out with the SE. They should have let the 4G63 go out with a bang. MIVEC on both cams, a twin scroll TD06 with a slightly larger hotside. Then man up the brakes to 2pc factory rotors and monoblock calipers, like the did on the RA-R for the last STI. Add factory one piece seat options, re-calibrated bilsteins, and dry carbon accent bits for the JDM nut swingers. That car would have been tits and worthy of a $36-39K price tag. The imaginary TD06 housing would have been the perfect base for a FP Red turbo.

Instead we got a MR without bilsteins, vortex generator, and 6-spd. Other than the lack of 6-spd, what's so special? That's Mitsubishi for you. :lol:


:lol:
+2k for the rotors,
1K for the monoblock calipers,
500 for the twin scroll,
250 for the hotside.
Another 250 for the accent.
Recalibrated bilstein for +750.
One piece "racing" seat for $1k.

Ty for the $5750 "MR-R" option :lol:

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 03:12 PM
in reality.. the current MR is no different then the Z51 Vs base C6 corvette....the packages are similiar.. Its not like a Z06, GT3, GT2, M series etc packages that brings an new engine and new body to the table. Maybe Mitsu will suprise us and bring the ralliart Evo over.. I would expect a different turbo at the very least.

As much as I wish they would offer a Ralliart Evo, I just can't see a market for it. What would it offer that the other Evo's dont? Maybe a flashed ECU and bigger brakes and larger Turbo? Might as well be the USDM FQ.

Imagine what it'd cost. :shock:

dabaysevo
04-09-2008, 03:22 PM
I have a dream, that one day shitsubishi will BRING BACK the 4g63 with mivec on not only one cam but BOTH!

:( its a shame that this is only a dream though as I am pretty sure none of the above will ever happen.


I share your dream.Â* I really wished they went all out with the SE.Â* They should have let the 4G63 go out with a bang.Â* MIVEC on both cams, a twin scroll TD06 with a slightly larger hotside.Â* Then man up the brakes to 2pc factory rotors and monoblock calipers, like the did on the RA-R for the last STI.Â* Add factory one piece seat options, re-calibrated bilsteins, and dry carbon accent bits for the JDM nut swingers.Â* That car would have been tits and worthy of a $36-39K price tag.Â* The imaginary TD06 housing would have been the perfect base for a FP Red turbo.

Instead we got a MR without bilsteins, vortex generator, and 6-spd.Â* Other than the lack of 6-spd, what's so special?Â* That's Mitsubishi for you.Â* :lol:


:lol:
+2k for the rotors,
1K for the monoblock calipers,
500 for the twin scroll,
250 for the hotside.
Another 250 for the accent.
Recalibrated bilstein for +750.
One piece "racing" seat for $1k.

Ty for the $5750 "MR-R" option :lol:


Exactly, 32K for our current SE plus the 6K you just figured in= 38KÂ* :D This is near invoice of course. I would have killed for an evo like that.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 03:36 PM
OR you could get a clean used ix se for like 27k do all the above and not only save money but if you bought the car used you would pay less tax if your cool like that, buy most of the parts used and have one seriously sick car. If your worried about the warranty you could always just go with the 135i and not only have a company that backs their product way more then shitsu but also pays for your tires,oil,wiper blades etc for 40k miles.

JanSolo
04-09-2008, 03:38 PM
OR you could get a clean used ix se for like 27k do all the above and not only save money but if you bought the car used you would pay less tax if your cool like that, buy most of the parts used and have one seriously sick car. If your worried about the warranty you could always just go with the 135i and not only have a company that backs their product way more then shitsu but also pays for your tires,oil,wiper blades etc for 40k miles.


BMW will ding you for beating down their cars as well with unsupported, aftermarket mods. Don't think they are unlike any other company out there - you break a car with an aftermarket mod that is unsupported and they will deny you warranty coverage for the issue as well.

ZK
04-09-2008, 03:47 PM
OR you could get a clean used ix se for like 27k do all the above and not only save money but if you bought the car used you would pay less tax if your cool like that, buy most of the parts used and have one seriously sick car. If your worried about the warranty you could always just go with the 135i and not only have a company that backs their product way more then shitsu but also pays for your tires,oil,wiper blades etc for 40k miles.


As the miles pile up, Mitsubishi reliablity > BMW reliability. Repair costs will be more as well for the BMW. An Evo will be cheaper to own and maintain.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 03:58 PM
as a rule of thumb I'll go with that but let's wait a year to see how the X and the MR in paticular hold up.

player67
04-09-2008, 04:00 PM
^thats true. Honestly, I think they shouldve made the RS more impressive.

I think they couldve gone an extra mile in weight saving. Some REAL tires. 2 peice rotors, mono calipers, high perofmrnace pads, redone suspension, a wayy better clutch than the stock pos usdm evo clutch. Unless thats the perfect evo ix for me to take around the track . But of course it all has to be dot approve =\

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 04:14 PM
The stock Evo clutch works just fine, if you are tearing through one under 10k then you are doing something wrong or have way more power than it was rated for.

bdking57
04-09-2008, 04:32 PM
well the auto execs at mitsu are essentially not the brightest bunch... how much did the average evo owner eventually end up spending on his car? Ill assume a good majority of us spent between $5K-10K in various modifications... imagine if Mitsu was capitalizing on this instead of letting it go to 10,000 different aftermarket accesories. They should have brought over official ralliart gear years ago, and certified shops to be ralliart qualified technicians who could complete the installations and keep the warranty intact.

This is why they are a struggling car company..........these automakers need to modernize the formula to cater to post sales support and sales accesory oppurtunities other then car covers and other worthless garbage.

As much as I hate on the GTR.. the nissan execs know what they are doing. Probably the sharpest bunch of auto execs outside of europe. The whole scam with the unchangeable wheels.. well they plan on releasing an entire aftermarket line for the GTR which will be some real bread and butter for them.

ZK
04-09-2008, 04:47 PM
well the auto execs at mitsu are essentially not the brightest bunch... how much did the average evo owner eventually end up spending on his car? Ill assume a good majority of us spent between $5K-10K in various modifications... imagine if Mitsu was capitalizing on this instead of letting it go to 10,000 different aftermarket accesories. They should have brought over official ralliart gear years ago, and certified shops to be ralliart qualified technicians who could complete the installations and keep the warranty intact.

This is why they are a struggling car company..........these automakers need to modernize the formula to cater to post sales support and sales accesory oppurtunities other then car covers and other worthless garbage.



This is really stupid... they already sell some bolt-on parts via Ralliart.

If they were to bring a whole car over, who would buy it? People have said the same thing about Honda and Nissan forever - milk the aftermarket parts market by creating factory "tuner" cars. So they created the "Mugen Civic Si" and "Nismo 350Z" to sell in the USA. And do those things sell? NO.

steevo8
04-09-2008, 04:57 PM
so I just went by the local bmw/subaru dealer cause I saw a 1series out front. Turned out to be a 128 though :( anyways while I was there I checked out the 08 sti.. As much as I hate the whole hatch idea, I must say that the overall quality and interior absolutely shits on the X and anything in the mitsubishi lineup for that matter. I am very impressed to say the least. If you haven't yet looked at it in person I encourage everyone to at least go sit in it.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 04:59 PM
The whole part about tuner cars is the tuning part. The ability to make your car different than the guy next door.

I cannot remember how many times people have seen the FQ series, or the ralliart, or the RA subarus, or the Mugen or Nismo factory "tuner" cars and said "You can do the same thing, with less money, and with the parts you want to your car you already have"

People buy these things for a reason, the potential. With two parts or 50 parts...Why do you think the honda scene is so huge? A stock civic is laughable (to me). Yet I saw a modified one run a 1:58 at buttonwillow two weeks ago.

If somebody thinks that the suits at Mitsubishi have no clue that they created a cult car that thrives on modifications, you are insane.

chrisw
04-09-2008, 05:00 PM
well the auto execs at mitsu are essentially not the brightest bunch... how much did the average evo owner eventually end up spending on his car? Ill assume a good majority of us spent between $5K-10K in various modifications... imagine if Mitsu was capitalizing on this instead of letting it go to 10,000 different aftermarket accesories. They should have brought over official ralliart gear years ago, and certified shops to be ralliart qualified technicians who could complete the installations and keep the warranty intact.

This is why they are a struggling car company..........these automakers need to modernize the formula to cater to post sales support and sales accesory oppurtunities other then car covers and other worthless garbage.

As much as I hate on the GTR.. the nissan execs know what they are doing. Probably the sharpest bunch of auto execs outside of europe. The whole scam with the unchangeable wheels.. well they plan on releasing an entire aftermarket line for the GTR which will be some real bread and butter for them.


you forget the major point of the BMW and mitsubishi (pick any model). that is, it's a mass consumer product.

you want that "pure" sports machine, buy from some small volume dealer like Ferrari, lamborgini, atom, etc...

Mitsubishi, BMW, like all the major manufactures produce product that has to comply with 99% of the whacky rules for all the markets they sell in. So ultimately, the car we get from the factory, is the lowest common denominator that the manufacture can produce and still make a decent profit margin.

DirectorSe7en
04-09-2008, 05:00 PM
so I just went by the local bmw/subaru dealer cause I saw a 1series out front. Turned out to be a 128 though :( anyways while I was there I checked out the 08 sti.. As much as I hate the whole hatch idea, I must say that the overall quality and interior absolutely shits on the X and anything in the mitsubishi lineup for that matter. I am very impressed to say the least. If you haven't yet looked at it in person I encourage everyone to at least go sit in it.


I very much liked the car, especially the interior. Again, it came down to the uglyness of the exterior.

Front = :o

RearÂ* = :shock: :tears:

Unowned
04-09-2008, 05:31 PM
The whole part about tuner cars is the tuning part. The ability to make your car different than the guy next door.

I cannot remember how many times people have seen the FQ series, or the ralliart, or the RA subarus, or the Mugen or Nismo factory "tuner" cars and said "You can do the same thing, with less money, and with the parts you want to your car you already have"

People buy these things for a reason, the potential. With two parts or 50 parts...Why do you think the honda scene is so huge? A stock civic is laughable (to me). Yet I saw a modified one run a 1:58 at buttonwillow two weeks ago.

If somebody thinks that the suits at Mitsubishi have no clue that they created a cult car that thrives on modifications, you are insane.




+1 Well said, I've been waiting for you to say this :D

steevo8
04-09-2008, 07:59 PM
I agree, and that's one of the very few things that would keep me from purchasing it myself, but when I look at something like that it makes me wonder why shitsu couldnt have made the x the dame quality. Same market, basicly same price, and yet shitsu couldnt even come within a arms reach of the sti. For someone that is into the whole hatch thing, I think the subaru would be right on the mark. Its not my cup of tea, but I can't really fault them for it as its an opinion. The lack of quality in the X on the otherhand is not opinion and not only can I but if you didn't notice I do fault them for it. I absolutely LOVE the look of the x and we have one if it wasn't for the lack of quality.






so I just went by the local bmw/subaru dealer cause I saw a 1series out front. Turned out to be a 128 though :( anyways while I was there I checked out the 08 sti.. As much as I hate the whole hatch idea, I must say that the overall quality and interior absolutely shits on the X and anything in the mitsubishi lineup for that matter. I am very impressed to say the least. If you haven't yet looked at it in person I encourage everyone to at least go sit in it.


I very much liked the car, especially the interior. Again, it came down to the uglyness of the exterior.

Front = :o

RearÂ* = :shock: :tears:

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 10:46 PM
Steve the STi MSRP begins at 34k. Evo at 33k.

1k gives you a nicer interior.

I agree though. After driving the STi that mike tuned, and yes I will catch crap for this... it drives AWESOME. Great interior, awesome feeling car.

However, let's see what happens when the Evo 10 gets tuned...

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:54 PM
Steve the STi MSRP begins at 34k. Evo at 33k.

1k gives you a nicer interior.

I agree though. After driving the STi that mike tuned, and yes I will catch crap for this... it drives AWESOME. Great interior, awesome feeling car.

However, let's see what happens when the Evo 10 gets tuned...


IMO it will have to make A LOT more power then the sti to make up for the difference in quality. And your seriously going to actually bring up a $1000 msrp difference? Thats less then $20 difference on a standard 5yr loan. IF thats what it would take to make mitsubishi use quality stuff in their cars then Im sure it would be in their best benefit to do so.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 10:56 PM
I'm joking u emo boi. ;) Don't u know me by know, then you'll never ever know me...

steevo8
04-09-2008, 10:57 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/stevoeight/serious_cat.jpg

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 10:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyDFnPS13uQ

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:02 PM
That was some seriously fruity shit Bryan

































http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/stevoeight/voices.jpg

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 11:04 PM
That was some seriously fruity shit Bryan


It's ricky gervais!

Never seen The Office?

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:04 PM
lol the sad thing is is that it took until about the 2:00 mark for me to stop it from playing.. umm no homo

steevo8
04-09-2008, 11:05 PM
That was some seriously fruity shit Bryan


It's ricky gervais!

Never seen The Office?


Sorry I cant say I have

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-09-2008, 11:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+office+uk&search_type=

haf fun

smack
04-10-2008, 01:14 AM
he's also doing "extras" now on hbo. more classic stuff. the guy is a genius.

wzcx
04-10-2008, 07:42 AM
This thread is so far off topic it's making me pass out (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thejacksons/2346371386/).

steevo8
04-10-2008, 07:49 AM
lmao that was good.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 07:51 AM
yeah well the R35 was supposed to be a tuner car.... and I honestly would have had a deposit on one last year if it came out as such.. by tuner car, I mean robust AWD.. ready to be tapped for mega power and priced at no more then $50K.. its not longer a tuner car, its a supercar.....I dont think there is anything wrong with having a Tuner car.. and then a supercar on the same platform, I think nissans only blunder to date has been not releasing a dumbed down, mass production version for 45K.. probably didnt want to canabalize G37 sales.





The whole part about tuner cars is the tuning part. The ability to make your car different than the guy next door.

I cannot remember how many times people have seen the FQ series, or the ralliart, or the RA subarus, or the Mugen or Nismo factory "tuner" cars and said "You can do the same thing, with less money, and with the parts you want to your car you already have"

People buy these things for a reason, the potential. With two parts or 50 parts...Why do you think the honda scene is so huge? A stock civic is laughable (to me). Yet I saw a modified one run a 1:58 at buttonwillow two weeks ago.

If somebody thinks that the suits at Mitsubishi have no clue that they created a cult car that thrives on modifications, you are insane.




+1 Well said, I've been waiting for you to say this :D

steevo8
04-10-2008, 08:08 AM
I think after spending two years in a wind tunnel, vibration testing each and every body that goes out ect. They have spent too much time and money on the car to just put out a dumbed down version.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 08:13 AM
yeah well the R35 was supposed to be a tuner car.... and I honestly would have had a deposit on one last year if it came out as such.. by tuner car, I mean robust AWD.. ready to be tapped for mega power and priced at no more then $50K.. its not longer a tuner car, its a supercar.....I dont think there is anything wrong with having a Tuner car.. and then a supercar on the same platform, I think nissans only blunder to date has been not releasing a dumbed down, mass production version for 45K.. probably didnt want to canabalize G37 sales.


Or 350z sales, which used to be Nissan's top performance vehicle. There is a 370z coming out with the G37's 3.7 liter V6, but it won't be any where as a good a performer as the GT-R, but it will be a hell of a lot cheaper and have greater availability.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 08:44 AM
yeah but watch the 370Z give the Evo X a run for the money on the track.. the previous car was right on its heels performance wise, and they seem to be pulling out all the stops with the new model... and obviously, they have the ability with what the GTR has accomplished.

All this competition out there.. this is what I mean whe the Evo X needed to do more to maintain its reputation as one of the baddest cars on the roads..

nightwalker
04-10-2008, 09:36 AM
The 370z is supposed to shed some weight too. I'd like to test drive them once they are released. I love RWDs, but choose to buy the EVO over the 350z a couple years ago because it felt like a fat sloppy pig.

Lurk
04-10-2008, 09:42 AM
The 370z is supposed to shed some weight too. I'd like to test drive them once they are released. I love RWDs, but choose to buy the EVO over the 350z a couple years ago because it felt like a fat sloppy pig.


Exactly. Even if they update it with a supposedly better engine, the Z's chassis still sucks.

ZK
04-10-2008, 10:05 AM
The 370z is supposed to shed some weight too. I'd like to test drive them once they are released. I love RWDs, but choose to buy the EVO over the 350z a couple years ago because it felt like a fat sloppy pig.


Exactly. Even if they update it with a supposedly better engine, the Z's chassis still sucks.


The 370Z is an updated chasis... guess we'll have to see how good it is. The 350z did not impress me. It's a good GT car but not a good performance car.

steevo8
04-10-2008, 10:13 AM
The 370z is supposed to shed some weight too. I'd like to test drive them once they are released. I love RWDs, but choose to buy the EVO over the 350z a couple years ago because it felt like a fat sloppy pig.


Exactly. Even if they update it with a supposedly better engine, the Z's chassis still sucks.


Thats exactly why you see a lot of top notch drivers and chassis tuners give a effort towards it yet scrap it and move on to something else.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 10:38 AM
yeah but watch the 370Z give the Evo X a run for the money on the track.. the previous car was right on its heels performance wise, and they seem to be pulling out all the stops with the new model... and obviously, they have the ability with what the GTR has accomplished.

All this competition out there.. this is what I mean whe the Evo X needed to do more to maintain its reputation as one of the baddest cars on the roads..


I have no idea what the performance of the 370z nor have I seen the performance numbers for it yet NOR have I seen any development logs. How do you know what they are trying to achieve? What insight do you have into the R&D process of the 370z?

The Evo when it was released did not have more power than the other cars out there (the STI had more, the Corvette, the 350z & G35 both had more). What the Evo had over the other cars was it's ability, once tuned by the aftermarket, to become one of the most potent cars in the world for the money. I am echoing what Bryan said previously, more or less, because perhaps the way he explained it clearly didn't register in your head. It's not how amazing the car is from the dealer floor alone, but the potential of the car once tuning and modding begins. If you pay attention to skid pad scores and reviews on the handling prowess of the Evo, you would see that reviews have been nothing but glowing regarding the handling of the new Evo X. If you'd like, I will happily provide you with links from all over the web. Mitsubishi, from what we have seen has been OVER ENGINEERED the 4B11, and does not explode like the 135i and 335's inline 6 does when you add an mbc.

I can rewrite the above paragraph in smaller, more simple words if you're still having issues understanding these absolutely basic concepts.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 10:48 AM
yeah but watch the 370Z give the Evo X a run for the money on the track.. the previous car was right on its heels performance wise, and they seem to be pulling out all the stops with the new model... and obviously, they have the ability with what the GTR has accomplished.


Previous 350z was right on the Evo's heels?

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 10:49 AM
yeah but watch the 370Z give the Evo X a run for the money on the track.. the previous car was right on its heels performance wise, and they seem to be pulling out all the stops with the new model... and obviously, they have the ability with what the GTR has accomplished.


Previous 350z was right on the Evo's heels?


He's talking about all the time he raced the cars on the track on his PS3.

leaveit2bevo
04-10-2008, 10:54 AM
HAHAHA 370z is not going to touch the X, why are people underestimating the evo X handling abilities? its clear that the X has a handling advantage on just about everything. Every one has the WHAT IFS what if that 135i had a lsd better tires etc. WHAT IF that X MR had 30 more hp and was a little lighter? then what the 135 still loses sorry game over.

RgistRdShowoffIX
04-10-2008, 11:00 AM
I just think they should try harder. I'm all good with change but along with evolution shouldn't things get better? The interior is obviously still shitsubishi interior. Why didn't their quality "evolve"? Why make it heavier? Shouldn't it be lighter? Yeah it might help sales some to water down a car to appeal to a larger market but that doesn't mean everyone will like it.

You make good points. The only excuse I can think Mitsu would pass along is cost. If they started using BMW type quality what would the price be? As for wieght, I imagine that's due to strict U.S. regulations and the new equipment. Aren't they lighter in Japan?


from what I see in the Japanese website it doesn't look like they took the extra airbags out. looks to be global addition =\

bdking57
04-10-2008, 11:02 AM
There was a comparison done with the 350z track and the evolution MR....... I cant find the results, I remember evo members being outraged that the 350z was so close during the test.....in a straight line, it was no contest, but I thought evo owners didnt care abotu this anymore

bdking57
04-10-2008, 11:25 AM
VIR - track times... obviously lots of factors to consider here ... but, if the 370Z gets a huge HP bump and some reworked suspension it will be impressive competition. I believe the comparison I saw was the 350z track variant... I personally dont like the car that much.

15. BMW Z4 M Roadster 3:11.7 ´06 343 / 1485 Car and Driver
16. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 3:12.5 ´02 287 / 1429 Car and Driver
17. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 3:13.5 ´05 280 / 1540 Car and Driver

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 11:31 AM
VIR - track times... obviously lots of factors to consider here ... but, if the 370Z gets a huge HP bump and some reworked suspension it will be impressive competition. I believe the comparison I saw was the 350z track variant... I personally dont like the car that much.

15. BMW Z4 M Roadster 3:11.7 ´06 343 / 1485 Car and Driver
16. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 3:12.5 ´02 287 / 1429 Car and Driver
17. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 3:13.5 ´05 280 / 1540 Car and Driver


It's not getting a huge hp bump if it is using a 3.7 liter from the G37.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 11:57 AM
330bhp.. but unresponsive to mods. I wonder if they are already looking into putting a detuned version of the GTR TT in the car to take on the C6 directly at 50K too.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 12:04 PM
330bhp.. but unresponsive to mods. I wonder if they are already looking into putting a detuned version of the GTR TT in the car to take on the C6 directly at 50K too.


No reason to, especially with the recession in car sales happening world wide. Why spend R&D/marketing money on competing against a car that has low volume sales (the Corvette) when they already have a halo car in the GT-R that has so far beaten every released Corvette in every relevant performance rating? The smart move for Nissan would be to create a rwd car that competes on the lower end of the market that can be sold in high volume that is lighweight, has aftermarket tuning potential and can be a d0rifto replacement for the 240sx? They have the high end (GT-R), the mid range (350/370z), but they have no low end 15 - 25k performance car at all.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:18 PM
They have the high end (GT-R), the mid range (350/370z), but they have no low end 15 - 25k performance car at all.


Sentra SE-R + Altima Coupe

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 12:22 PM
They have the high end (GT-R), the mid range (350/370z), but they have no low end 15 - 25k performance car at all.


Sentra SE-R + Altima Coupe


Hence why I specified a rwd performance vehicle.

"The smart move for Nissan would be to create a rwd car that competes on the lower end of the market that can be sold in high volume that is lighweight, has aftermarket tuning potential and can be a d0rifto replacement for the 240sx."

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.

fiaevo.com
04-10-2008, 12:28 PM
Agree with Jan , Nissan should bring the 240 or similar back.

DirectorSe7en
04-10-2008, 12:30 PM
Ahh, you have all forgotten the Kia Koup.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x295/DirectorSe7en/car_photo_252009_25.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x295/DirectorSe7en/car_photo_252024_25.jpg

http://www.norcalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=28095.0

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:32 PM
Ahh, you have all forgotten the Kia Koup.


I'm trying to...

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.


The problem with the Genesis Coupe is that it weighs 3549 pounds.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/03/genesis-coupeg3.html

steevo8
04-10-2008, 12:33 PM
The 370Z will surely own the C6 vette though.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 12:34 PM
The 370Z will surely own the C6 vette though.


LOL!

Stir the pot, why don't you? :D

DirectorSe7en
04-10-2008, 12:37 PM
I'm trying to


:lol: Give it some credit for trying. What are you going to tell the owner of a brand new Kia Koup looking for some tuning?

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm trying to


:lol: Give it some credit for trying. What are you going to tell the owner of a brand new Kia Koup looking for some tuning?


When I see it move from prototype to actual production vehicle I will care.

The Genesis is an actual car that is in production, so I care more. :)

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:43 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.


The problem with the Genesis Coupe is that it weighs 3549 pounds.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/03/genesis-coupeg3.html



Indeed, but what RWD coupe in that segment doesn't weigh a bit nowadays? ;)

G37 = 3,668

G35 coupe = 3,450

Mustang GT = 3,483

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.


The problem with the Genesis Coupe is that it weighs 3549 pounds.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/03/genesis-coupeg3.html



Indeed, but what RWD coupe in that segment doesn't weigh a bit nowadays? ;)

G37 = 3,668


The RX8? I know, I know - it doesn't count due lack of power, torque, etc. But it weighs 3029 pounds.

leaveit2bevo
04-10-2008, 12:46 PM
The 370Z will surely own the C6 vette though.


Dont forget the vette has the leaf spring advantage, horse drawn stage coach technologly Ftw!

steevo8
04-10-2008, 12:47 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.


The problem with the Genesis Coupe is that it weighs 3549 pounds.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/03/genesis-coupeg3.html



Indeed, but what RWD coupe in that segment doesn't weigh a bit nowadays? ;)

G37 = 3,668

G35 coupe = 3,450



Thats just silly. For a 2door rwd car that is still going to be every bit as nissan inside as they have always been? And people shit a brick over the weight of the 135i...... At least thats twin turbo and BMW quality(not that nissan is poor quality just not on par with BMW, benz ect)

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Yea I know, and agree...

I'm waiting for the Hyundai Genesis with the 4B11. Should be filling the void that Nissan refuses to fill.


The problem with the Genesis Coupe is that it weighs 3549 pounds.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/03/genesis-coupeg3.html



Indeed, but what RWD coupe in that segment doesn't weigh a bit nowadays? ;)

G37 = 3,668


The RX8? I know, I know - it doesn't count due lack of power, torque, etc. But it weighs 3029 pounds.


I personally think the RX8 is in a different segment than the Genesis. I know the Genesis's target is the G35/G37 and Mustang. Actually I guess RX8 could be lumped into that segment.

The RX8 is one of the last "lighter" sport coupes, unfortunatly it has no power, like you said. :)

I think the Genesis is the only one in the segment that is going to be offered with a Turbo 4cyl? That is one of the main reasons I am looking towards the Genesis as a S13/S14 'replacement'.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 12:50 PM
Thats just silly. For a 2door rwd car that is still going to be every bit as nissan inside as they have always been? And people shit a brick over the weight of the 135i...... At least thats twin turbo and BMW quality(not that nissan is poor quality just not on par with BMW, benz ect)


benz? Doesn't benz have the worst service history in the last 2 years of all the biggies?

steevo8
04-10-2008, 12:53 PM
Thats just silly. For a 2door rwd car that is still going to be every bit as nissan inside as they have always been?Â* And people shit a brick over the weight of the 135i...... At least thats twin turbo and BMW quality(not that nissan is poor quality just not on par with BMW, benz ect)



benz? Doesn't benz have the worst service history in the last 2 years of all the biggies?


Yes, yes they do but the point is, is that with a car like a benz or bimmer I expect it to be a bit overweight due to the extra crap on the inside. A nissan? Not so much.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Thats just silly. For a 2door rwd car that is still going to be every bit as nissan inside as they have always been? And people shit a brick over the weight of the 135i...... At least thats twin turbo and BMW quality(not that nissan is poor quality just not on par with BMW, benz ect)


Sorry, but Benz has no quality.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/17/autos/pluggedin_Taylor_Mercedes.fortune/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 01:04 PM
"Mercedes has the worst record of any automaker with that many models. For a brand that claims to be "engineered like no other car in the world," that is fairly frightening."

haha pwnd.

steevo8
04-10-2008, 01:08 PM
Yeah yeah yeah. I get that part but what I mean is that they are heavier via extra stuff in the cabin that I wouldnt expect a nissan to have.

ZK
04-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Benz is two notches ahead of BMW? So that makes BMW really bad... haha

bdking57
04-10-2008, 01:31 PM
yeah what gives on the 370Zs weight......the interior is very GMish. While the Evos previous interior was rather spartan, and plane looking, I felt the materials used where actually very nice. Now im comparison the C6s interior feels better then the nissan, and for 08 is leaps and bounds beyond the 350Z.. yet it weighs more, with a smaller body and engine, and tranny. Mysterious junk in the trunk.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 01:51 PM
ZR1 is testing at the ring right now, 7:40 ish engineer driving and passengers in the car in damp spring conditions.







They have the high end (GT-R), the mid range (350/370z), but they have no low end 15 - 25k performance car at all.


Sentra SE-R + Altima Coupe


Hence why I specified a rwd performance vehicle.

"The smart move for Nissan would be to create a rwd car that competes on the lower end of the market that can be sold in high volume that is lighweight, has aftermarket tuning potential and can be a d0rifto replacement for the 240sx."




330bhp.. but unresponsive to mods. I wonder if they are already looking into putting a detuned version of the GTR TT in the car to take on the C6 directly at 50K too.


No reason to, especially with the recession in car sales happening world wide. Why spend R&D/marketing money on competing against a car that has low volume sales (the Corvette) when they already have a halo car in the GT-R that has so far beaten every released Corvette in every relevant performance rating? The smart move for Nissan would be to create a rwd car that competes on the lower end of the market that can be sold in high volume that is lighweight, has aftermarket tuning potential and can be a d0rifto replacement for the 240sx? They have the high end (GT-R), the mid range (350/370z), but they have no low end 15 - 25k performance car at all.

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 01:51 PM
yeah what gives on the 370Zs weight......the interior is very GMish. While the Evos previous interior was rather spartan, and plane looking, I felt the materials used where actually very nice. Now im comparison the C6s interior feels better then the nissan, and for 08 is leaps and bounds beyond the 350Z.. yet it weighs more, with a smaller body and engine, and tranny. Mysterious junk in the trunk.


I haven't seen the 370z's curb weight yet. And I had no idea that the interior of the Evo looked like an airPLANE. I think you meant plain, right? ;)

For a 50k car, I would hope the C6 has a decent interior because the C5 was typical GM budget car/rental interiors that we've seen in the previous generation Malibu, Impala etc.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 01:53 PM
all the reviews of the 2008 say its very nice... almost the whole dash is leather wraped.. My major complaint is the targa roof, which is a POS (Glass roof and top off are bomb though). Its no BMW 335i.............

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 02:16 PM
all the reviews of the 2008 say its very nice... almost the whole dash is leather wraped.. My major complaint is the targa roof, which is a POS (Glass roof and top off are bomb though). Its no BMW 335i.............


Visually, the interior of the 335 is bland and "plane" looking as well. But obviously all way off topic on the 135 vs the Evo X.

DirectorSe7en
04-10-2008, 02:17 PM
Not to kill the conversation, but wasn't the 135i and Evo X MR designed for different uses? Are they only being compared because of price range?

JanSolo
04-10-2008, 02:23 PM
Not to kill the conversation, but wasn't the 135i and Evo X MR designed for different uses? Are they only being compared because of price range?


Good point. Here is how it is explained in the article:

"Yeah, we know-on the face of it, this comparison looks ridiculous. What business do we have comparing an all-wheel-drive Japanese rally sedan versus a rear-drive German luxury coupe?

Simple: BMW's new 1 Series really is just that-the only one in its class. Its smaller stature and lower-cost bar comparisons with the Infiniti G37 and Audi A5/S5-plus, there's the BMW 3 Series for that. Though the BMW is available as a convertible, the 135i's 2+2 seating combination eliminates sports cars and roadsters like the Nissan 350Z and CLK350 (and the Z4 already has those covered.) What's left? We put together a matrix to compare (see it on page 4).

There we found the perfect 135i competitor: a 300-horsepower, two-door, four-passenger, rear-drive sports car that comes in at $28,000, but can hit the mid-30s fully loaded.

Then we sobered up and realized that nobody cross-shops a BMW against a Mustang. So we rolled up our sleeves and dug past some of the usual disqualifiers to focus on concepts like pure performance and fun factor.

Which is how we arrived at the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR-two extra doors, two fewer cylinders, and one fewer turbocharger, yes, but two more driven wheels, similar engine output, and class-leading performance. Most important, the Evo is the kind of vehicle a true driving enthusiast can honestly consider against the 135i."

Basically, they had no other cars to compete against the 135i except the MR.

DirectorSe7en
04-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Basically, they had no other cars to compete against the 135i except the MR.


Wow, big words.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 03:07 PM
Basically, they had no other cars to compete against the 135i except the MR.


Wouldn't a Cayman be closer? RWD, coupe. Although I guess it costs 10k more, although a 135i with options would be closer price wise.

steevo8
04-10-2008, 03:07 PM
In cbass's x nutswinging deffence though the x did beat it stock for stock :?

Imagine what would have happened IF they did test it against a 350z or god forbid a rustang :shock: imo it would have been ugly. BUT maybe that's what people need to see :? Maybe then the shitbox mustang drivers will think twice before taking it in the arse from ford?

As much shit as I talk about the MR, at least its worlds ahead of say a 4spd automatic mustang that barely gets it fat ass into the 13's.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 03:20 PM
135i is in a complete niche by itself.. will probably be loved but road racers and autoxers, as well as chics...... the mainstream appeal will make it a great value as a second hand car a few years down the road. congrats to BMW on this.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 03:21 PM
cayman fits into the hardly practical category though.






Basically, they had no other cars to compete against the 135i except the MR.


Wouldn't a Cayman be closer? RWD, coupe. Although I guess it costs 10k more, although a 135i with options would be closer price wise.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 03:24 PM
cayman fits into the hardly practical category though.


It's a hatch. That makes it a little more practical than other non-hatch rwd coupes.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/porsche-cayman-history-3.jpg

but yes I understand what you mean since it's just a 2 seater.

If I had 45-50k to blow and was looking for a 'small' RWD sport coupe I think I might have a hard time deciding right now.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 03:26 PM
lol.. that looks like some well fitting custom match luggage in there. When I compared the M roadster to the C6.. cayman clearly cam out ahead in this category, M roadster had little to no room at all...You couldnt even pack a weekend trip for two the way we pack anyway.

Only reason I didnt end up with the cayman was it lower on power then the C6, minus longer road trips were the larger size is a plus..I bet its a hell of alot better daily driver then the C6, and is clearly built well and fun to drive. but Jan could probably confirm that better.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-10-2008, 03:32 PM
I've seen some pretty darn quick caymans on track. They look really nice when they get rid of the 4x4 ride height and lower it with nice wheels.

bdking57
04-10-2008, 03:51 PM
couldnt help but post this.. shitty G35 interior :lol: Dont leave your dogs in the car

http://i26.tinypic.com/20s67n8.jpg

DirectorSe7en
04-10-2008, 03:58 PM
^To the owner:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x295/DirectorSe7en/Smileys/pointlaugh.gif

steevo8
04-10-2008, 11:57 PM
Im not a fan of either of these clowns but they are usually pretty accurate with their assessments. I dont agree with their opinions on the looks of the GTR or the 135 but I guess both are really controversial in the looks department so it is what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7EN5xxc26w

steevo8
04-11-2008, 01:01 AM
Basically, they had no other cars to compete against the 135i except the MR.


Wouldn't a Cayman be closer? RWD, coupe. Although I guess it costs 10k more, although a 135i with options would be closer price wise.


In my 135i nutswinging search for cool vids I found the 5th gear test between the cayman and 135i..... If you dont feel like watching it heres the cliff notes:

135iÂ* Â*1:26.1Â* Â* vs. caymanÂ* Â*1:27.9 and they were extremely impressed with the 135i....... Of course. So less money for a more practical car that has more power and is faster around a track.

wzcx
04-11-2008, 07:30 AM
I sure do like that cayman- I want to drive one bad.

tookinkee
05-17-2008, 03:15 PM
I personally own an IX and X and as they are both great cars the X just feels heavy. I think with a bump in boost and lighten the car up to about my IX and the X would be one heck of a track car.

ZK
07-16-2008, 03:16 PM
I went and drove the BMW 135i manual sport package over the weekend. It is actually a really nice car! I've never liked German cars and BMW is the poster child for snobs (only beaten by Audi) but this car is really fun!

Lots of power, steering is fast, very quiet interior and suspension is firm but still compliant. The shifter throw is way too long but positive engagement. I kept missing 3rd and going from 2nd to 5th. For a daily driver, I would definitely pick this over the Evo. It is nimble and makes the 335i feel like a boat by comparison.

But damn is it expensive! The 135i is $40K sticker with very few options. You're looking at $45K fully equipped! This is way more than a Evo X GSR-SSS. The dealers will not work on the price either. 135 coupes are not common - they have a ton of convertibles but not many manual coupes.

Kinda torn... the 135i has bust my JDM bubble. :(

wilson1
07-16-2008, 04:22 PM
buy one, ZK!


:D

jon
07-16-2008, 08:06 PM
I went and drove the BMW 135i manual sport package over the weekend. It is actually a really nice car! I've never liked German cars and BMW is the poster child for snobs (only beaten by Audi) but this car is really fun!

Lots of power, steering is fast, very quiet interior and suspension is firm but still compliant. The shifter throw is way too long but positive engagement. I kept missing 3rd and going from 2nd to 5th. For a daily driver, I would definitely pick this over the Evo. It is nimble and makes the 335i feel like a boat by comparison.

But damn is it expensive! The 135i is $40K sticker with very few options. You're looking at $45K fully equipped! This is way more than a Evo X GSR-SSS. The dealers will not work on the price either. 135 coupes are not common - they have a ton of convertibles but not many manual coupes.

Kinda torn... the 135i has bust my JDM bubble. :(


DAM! 40k+ for a 1 series!?

EV0LL
07-16-2008, 09:23 PM
Kinda torn... the 135i has bust my JDM bubble. :(


Don't worry, that'll go away once the pricy bmw keeps having upteen dozen problems, like shutting down at random among other things, and then you will realize that the "uber car" isn't so uber ;)

steevo8
07-16-2008, 09:26 PM
I went and drove the BMW 135i manual sport package over the weekend. It is actually a really nice car! I've never liked German cars and BMW is the poster child for snobs (only beaten by Audi) but this car is really fun!

Lots of power, steering is fast, very quiet interior and suspension is firm but still compliant. The shifter throw is way too long but positive engagement. I kept missing 3rd and going from 2nd to 5th. For a daily driver, I would definitely pick this over the Evo. It is nimble and makes the 335i feel like a boat by comparison.

But damn is it expensive! The 135i is $40K sticker with very few options. You're looking at $45K fully equipped! This is way more than a Evo X GSR-SSS. The dealers will not work on the price either. 135 coupes are not common - they have a ton of convertibles but not many manual coupes.

Kinda torn... the 135i has bust my JDM bubble. :(


DAM! 40k+ for a 1 series!?


$40k for a shitsubishi :shock:

EV0LL
07-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Im not a fan of either of these clowns but they are usually pretty accurate with their assessments. I dont agree with their opinions on the looks of the GTR or the 135 but I guess both are really controversial in the looks department so it is what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7EN5xxc26w


Ughh I lasted about 10 seconds of that vid. Just something about listening to loud mouth New Yorkers talk about cars that I can't stand... :?

leaveit2bevo
07-16-2008, 11:01 PM
I went and drove the BMW 135i manual sport package over the weekend. It is actually a really nice car! I've never liked German cars and BMW is the poster child for snobs (only beaten by Audi) but this car is really fun!

Lots of power, steering is fast, very quiet interior and suspension is firm but still compliant. The shifter throw is way too long but positive engagement. I kept missing 3rd and going from 2nd to 5th. For a daily driver, I would definitely pick this over the Evo. It is nimble and makes the 335i feel like a boat by comparison.

But damn is it expensive! The 135i is $40K sticker with very few options. You're looking at $45K fully equipped! This is way more than a Evo X GSR-SSS. The dealers will not work on the price either. 135 coupes are not common - they have a ton of convertibles but not many manual coupes.

Kinda torn... the 135i has bust my JDM bubble. :(


DAM! 40k+ for a 1 series!?


$40k for a shitsubishi :shock:


hahaha excellent point

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-16-2008, 11:12 PM
$40k for a shitsubishi :shock:


Yea but if you pay 50k you get cool little paddle things to comfort your fingers.

steevo8
07-16-2008, 11:13 PM
$40k for a shitsubishi :shock:


Yea but if you pay 50k you get cool little paddle things to comfort your fingers.


Ahh yes and then you can let your girlfriend drive it also...

earlyapex aka jack ass
07-16-2008, 11:20 PM
Ahh yes and then you can let your girlfriend drive it also...


I dunno she does great things with a stick

steevo8
07-16-2008, 11:21 PM
Your lucky.. D7's girl cant handle the stick.

Liquid-R1
07-17-2008, 03:51 PM
I test drove a 135i a couple weeks ago as well. Too bad it was Auto, but even then I was very impressed. The sales person told me to beat the car like I stole it. Getting on the onrsmp, the DSC was kicking in. I'm considering one, but the 3 series has 0.9% for 60 months which is making it a tough choice.