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EvOlUtIoN_IX_SE
04-12-2008, 10:54 AM
is their any that is actually streetlegal and effective all at the same time...i wanted to get the arc but i relized cops are always trying to pop my hood so thats just too flashy.....if anybody has any info i would really appricate it! Thanks!

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 11:01 AM
I got the ets upper and lower piping, and I like how they come in black. You can also order the couplers in black for a total stealth look.

EvOlUtIoN_IX_SE
04-12-2008, 11:15 AM
do you know what the differance in diamiter was between stock and ets...also did it fit with the stock battery?!?!....i was looking at the greddy uicp and was thinking of rattlecanning it flatblack/black...

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 11:18 AM
They have a kit that fits the stock battery or a small battery. Here a link

http://extremeturbosystems.com/

EvOlUtIoN_IX_SE
04-12-2008, 11:24 AM
question is...is ets intercooler piping streetlegal?

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 02:28 PM
The answer is no ic piping are carb legal, or that I am aware of.

noypiC50
04-12-2008, 03:21 PM
car came with intercooler piping stock, why would it need to be carb legal. Doesn't have anything to do with smog or emmissions.

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 04:12 PM
car came with intercooler piping stock, why would it need to be carb legal. Doesn't have anything to do with smog or emmissions.


Well if you say that then I am sure our vehicles came with a stock dp, cat, exhaust, cams, intake, turbo and so on. Also some of those parts that I just mention has nothing to do with emissions, but it still needs to be carb legal to be street legal. I happen to be a ca certified smog tech that also own and operate a test-only station, so I might have an idea of what I am talking about .Â* Btw I am just trying to suggest a ic setup that is good in quality and stealth, so much for trying to help.

gohdunlam
04-12-2008, 04:19 PM
ets has a uicp that works for stock battery, i recently took my ets short route off cause my ets mini battery died =\

but i perfer stock bat + stock uicp, makes my engine bay stealthier w/ my bushcur kit =]

noypiC50
04-12-2008, 04:59 PM
SmogMeEvo - Since you know more about this stuff, is there a law that says intercooler piping has to be CARB legal? Maybe we should also have CARB legal sparkplugs, wires, battery, starters, alternators etc? If i brought you my evo for a smog with an ARC bling upper intercooler pipe and everything else stock, would you fail me on the visual?

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 05:14 PM
SmogMeEvo - Since you know more about this stuff, is there a law that says intercooler piping has to be CARB legal? Maybe we should also have CARB legal sparkplugs, wires, battery, starters, alternators etc? If i brought you my evo for a smog with an ARC bling upper intercooler pipe and everything else stock, would you fail me on the visual?


I honestly would fail it, but I would recommend that you change out the piping before coming in for a smog. So you don't waste your money. I know is bs but B.A.R and C.A.R.B requires all aftermarket performance parts be carb legal with an eo number. And as far as oem aftermarket replacement parts like spark plug, wires, cap, rotor, egr, evap, tac, pcv, senors, and etc those are okay without being carb certified. And comparing a starter, battery, and alternator to ic piping is like comparing apples to oranges. No matter how much you would like to believe a piece of piping has nothing to do with emissions, it does. Some parts could be manufactured with poor quality, design, material, or possible all three. But if a starter, batter, alternator was to be manufactured with the same defects it would just simple not work, and not cause any rich or lean conditions like and ic piping possibly could.

gohdunlam
04-12-2008, 05:22 PM
would u fail me for my wastegate? =[

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 05:46 PM
would u fail me for my wastegate? =[


I don't want to get in trouble, so i would say yes. In reality if I don't notice that is a modified part then it doesn't exist. I mean if you are running more boost and extremely rich, then you might fail for HC and CO anyways, but luckly Evos would only be tested TSI instead of ASM.

whtrice
04-12-2008, 08:07 PM
I have to disagree that the plugs cannot cause emissions issues. I could have some crappy fouled plugs that can be misfiring a cylinder or two and drive up emission readings. I/C pipes that are sold aftermarket that use the same size pipe diameter have no bearing on emissions. Use aftermarket
piping that is the stock satin finish or painted black and you will have now issues.

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 08:23 PM
I have to disagree that the plugs cannot cause emissions issues. I could have some crappy fouled plugs that can be misfiring a cylinder or two and drive up emission readings. I/C pipes that are sold aftermarket that use the same size pipe diameter have no bearing on emissions. Use aftermarket
piping that is the stock satin finish or painted black and you will have now issues.


I never stated that spark plugs were not emission related!?!? If the piping happen to have a leak it would cause a rich condition during open loop on a vehicle equipped with a maf.

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 08:30 PM
SmogMeEvo - Since you know more about this stuff, is there a law that says intercooler piping has to be CARB legal? Maybe we should also have CARB legal sparkplugs, wires, battery, starters, alternators etc? If i brought you my evo for a smog with an ARC bling upper intercooler pipe and everything else stock, would you fail me on the visual?


I honestly would fail it, but I would recommend that you change out the piping before coming in for a smog. So you don't waste your money. I know is bs but B.A.R and C.A.R.B requires all aftermarket performance parts be carb legal with an eo number. And as far as oem aftermarket replacement parts like spark plug, wires, cap, rotor, egr, evap, tac, pcv, senors, and etc those are okay without being carb certified. And comparing a starter, battery, and alternator to ic piping is like comparing apples to oranges. No matter how much you would like to believe a piece of piping has nothing to do with emissions, it does. Some parts could be manufactured with poor quality, design, material, or possible all three. But if a starter, batter, alternator was to be manufactured with the same defects it would just simple not work, and not cause any rich or lean conditions like and ic piping possibly could.


Read carefully! I am not the bad guy here, take it up with B.A.R.

whtrice
04-12-2008, 08:41 PM
This would be true stock or aftermarket I/C's. Open loop or not..If your interested in I/C pipes I would recommend Nisei since they are stock in diameter.



I never stated that spark plugs were not emission related!?!? If the piping happen to have a leak it would cause a rich condition during open loop on a vehicle equipped with a maf.

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 08:43 PM
I have to disagree that the plugs cannot cause emissions issues. I could have some crappy fouled plugs that can be misfiring a cylinder or two and drive up emission readings. I/C pipes that are sold aftermarket that use the same size pipe diameter have no bearing on emissions. Use aftermarket
piping that is the stock satin finish or painted black and you will have now issues.


If the ic piping have no bearing on emission then why are we buying these aftermarket units to replace the oem units. We are doing it because it allow more free flowing air to enter the engine which can have an effect on the a/f mixture during close loop( Even though the ecu would lean out the a/f). All b.a.r. cares about is close loop operations anyways or else they would require all vehicle to do an all out full throttle tail pipe test. If I was the one to make the rules all aftermarket parts should be legal as long as you pass the tail pipe test, also diesels and motorcycles would require biennial emission testing.

whtrice
04-12-2008, 08:50 PM
Just the addition I/C pipes will not by themselves ...To get the full benefit you need to be tuned with these devices. The only real gain you will see then is more efficient spool. This is due to the more efficient lengths of the I/C with less bends and twists.



If the ic piping have no bearing on emission then why are we buying these aftermarket units to replace the oem units. We are doing it because it allow more free flowing air to enter the engine which can have an affect on the a/f mixture during close loop( Even though the ecu would lean out the a/f).

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 08:59 PM
I am not trying to prove anything, so take it for what it is. I am just a dumb grease monkey, anyways GO WARRIORS!

whtrice
04-12-2008, 09:04 PM
Try the Nisei if your looking for I/C piping. I would just recommend the lower pipe. I use the black steel one. Virtually undetectable. Have fun



I am not trying to prove anything, so take it for what it is. I am just a dumb grease monkey, anyways GO WARRIORS!

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-12-2008, 09:15 PM
The ECU will target stoic (14.7:1 AFR) under Closed Loop operation. It is constantly working to maintain this using fuel trims. Something like intercooler pipes and a FMIC will not change things enough to the point where the ECU cannot subtract or add enough fuel to compensate.

Things that can give the ECU a hard time with this are open breathers not recirculated back in, vac leaks, poorly scaled larger injectors and intakes that mess with the MAF readings badly. If these apply, then you deserve to fail smog. ;)

SmogMeEvo
04-12-2008, 09:29 PM
The ECU will target stoic (14.7:1 AFR) under Closed Loop operation. It is constantly working to maintain this using fuel trims. Something like intercooler pipes and a FMIC will not change things enough to the point where the ECU cannot subtract or add enough fuel to compensate.

Things that can give the ECU a hard time with this are open breathers not recirculated back in, vac leaks, poorly scaled larger injectors and intakes that mess with the MAF readings badly. If these apply, then you deserve to fail smog. ;)


Exactly what I was stating ic piping leak=vta bov. Thanks for the more detail explanation

DnB_design
04-13-2008, 12:06 AM
the only IC pipes i know that have a CARB Sticker is the "Injen EVO Intake w/Upper + Lower Intercooler Pipes", check it out....

warpspeed
04-13-2008, 10:26 AM
Just to chime in, C.A.R.B. is really picky on what parts are smog legal or not. As an ex-smog tech. I always ran to alot of people having aftermarket parts but the car still ran clean. They just want to get there "cut" from manufacturers that makes aftermarket parts to get their approval. Good examples are aftermarket intakes. Companies that can afford get the E.O. number get it while another company that has almost the same set up,having the same diameter piping doesn't. One thing I want to bring up though, how about replacing your i.c. hoses and putting Sampco hoses, will it be smog illegal? Some say yes and some say no. It's just up to the tech.

whtrice
04-13-2008, 05:04 PM
I replaced mine. There is nothing that I know of that will not allow you to change your I/C hoses. They seal and hold boost better then the stockers.




One thing I want to bring up though, how about replacing your i.c. hoses and putting Sampco hoses, will it be smog illegal? Some say yes and some say no. It's just up to the tech.

ddubdb3
04-13-2008, 09:08 PM
I have to butt in here...smogmevo is a certified smog tech. Emissions and smog related stuff is exxxxxtreeeemly strict as yall kno. Emissions stuff is super hard for me to uunderstandat least for me its crazy how the smallest thing can cause such a big impact on hc,co,co2,o2, nox so I'm sure he knows his stuff.. he passes anything that is not supposed to pass smog and gets caught..he gets fined put on a blacklist basicaly for his wrong doing and his money maker license is gone. I've herd that even running without a cat maybe a federal offense with a fatt fine and u could even go to pound me in the a%$ jail just for it..All a carb sticker e.o. Sticker comes down to is like some one said here is if a company has the money to get it. And unfortunatly that's the only thing cops look for. But the semi flat spray paint can do wonders : ) haha

nightwalker
04-13-2008, 09:55 PM
I've been a smog tech for 4 years, and 3 of those years worked at a Gold Shield station that worked closely with the B.A.R. (you can thank us because we were the one's who helped do all the beta tests for the new low pressure evap test that is now in effect)

If you closely inspect the B.A.R. guidelines, it is stated that aftermarket intercoolers and piping DO NOT need a C.A.R.B. sticker, and can be replace with aftermarket ones as long as the original mounting, and layout is retained. Basically it means, recirculated like stock, and no V mounts.

Catch cans are also legal as long as they are in line and are fully enclosed.

The problem you will have with getting your car smogged if you have an aftermarket IC and pipes, is with the smog tech himself. I can guarantee you that 95% of smog techs have no idea of the details involving aftermarket parts, so they'll just turn you away.

SmogMeEvo
04-13-2008, 10:15 PM
I've been a smog tech for 4 years, and 3 of those years worked at a Gold Shield station that worked closely with the B.A.R. (you can thank us because we were the one's who helped do all the beta tests for the new low pressure evap test that is now in effect)

If you closely inspect the B.A.R. guidelines, it is stated that aftermarket intercoolers and piping DO NOT need a C.A.R.B. sticker, and can be replace with aftermarket ones as long as the original mounting, and layout is retained. Basically it means, recirculated like stock, and no V mounts.

Catch cans are also legal as long as they are in line and are fully enclosed.

The problem you will have with getting your car smogged if you have an aftermarket IC and pipes, is with the smog tech himself. I can guarantee you that 95% of smog techs have no idea of the details involving aftermarket parts, so they'll just turn you away.


http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.phpÂ* Â* Â*
Scroll down and select Intercooler kits, HKS and Greddy is on there and not to mention some are just the piping kit.


If what you stat is true then why are all these aftermarket performance companies certifying their intercooler kits? Not trying to be a dick, but I just want to be sure. So I can stay with in the guidelines, and not risk my license and business. Damn Evap testing and lobbyist!

nightwalker
04-14-2008, 08:24 PM
it's in the "blue book" man. Read it carefully. Or if you're not sure, call your rep. If he doesn't know, ask to talk to a ref. (A lot of B.A.R. reps don't know much btw)

The best way to protect your license, is to carefully read the blue book, then get your rep to also back it up. That way if anything comes up, you can quote him on it.

warpspeed
04-14-2008, 08:29 PM
Catch cans are also legal as long as they are in line and are fully enclosed.



I wonder why then does it say on the Greddy Catch Can box, " for off-road use only" and not for California emission equipped vehicles.?

SmogMeEvo
04-14-2008, 09:08 PM
it's in the "blue book" man. Read it carefully. Or if you're not sure, call your rep. If he doesn't know, ask to talk to a ref. (A lot of B.A.R. reps don't know much BTW)

The best way to protect your license, is to carefully read the blue book, then get your rep to also back it up. That way if anything comes up, you can quote him on it.


I read the blue book and the cream color book multiple times and I don't recall reading anything specific about intercoolers or aftermarket parts(Correct me if I am wrong the blue book is just a brief explanation of the procedures and descriptions of all the different smog programs). Tell you the truth the blue book has a lot of rules and regulations that are not very well specific and contains a lot of questionable grey areas. Trust me I am not a newbie when it comes to dealing with B.A.R reps. I like yourself has been a smog tech for 4years, worked at City Toyota for five years as a tech and now run my own test-only for the pass 3 years. Now lets get back to the original question or point I was trying to make, what is the point of spending money and time to carb certify a part if its not necessary? I mean its common sense, and if it doesn't make sense than its probably not true.

whtrice
04-15-2008, 06:02 PM
This is a good question and this whole thread can boil down to this. It is to me obvious and it seems others too, why would it be necessary to CARB certify these parts? Could it be maybe partly because the rules are not clearly defined and even manufacturers are uncertain of these so called "grey areas"Â* too? Or... does the fact that they go through the process of certifying these parts give them the market selling advantage over their competitor products. You know..."Hey..We got the sticker and you guys don't." I think if most the consumers are just as confused which one would you buy?? These are just my common sense thoughts on the matter.



Now lets get back to the original question or point I was trying to make, what is the point of spending money and time to carb certify a part if its not necessary? I mean its common sense, and if it doesn't make sense than its probably not true.

earlyapex aka jack ass
04-15-2008, 06:15 PM
If you closely inspect the B.A.R. guidelines, it is stated that aftermarket intercoolers and piping DO NOT need a C.A.R.B. sticker, and can be replace with aftermarket ones as long as the original mounting, and layout is retained. Basically it means, recirculated like stock, and no V mounts.


Why would V-mounts not make them legal? Only because they don't use the factory mounts?

Also, if you can use aftermarket piping, as long as it keeps the same layout, then every IC piping except for the Samco couplers would be illegal as they all change the path (shorter, different bends, etc)

Cash$ Money
04-15-2008, 06:38 PM
i will get my ets piping tomrrow, along with the mini battery, piping finished in black! looks stealthy as hell. I will post some pics tomrrow!

SmogMeEvo
04-15-2008, 09:34 PM
i will get my ets piping tomrrow, along with the mini battery, piping finished in black! looks stealthy as hell. I will post some pics tomrrow!


Running the same setup with thier ic, you can't beat it for the price.

SmogMeEvo
04-15-2008, 09:56 PM
This is a good question and this whole thread can boil down to this. It is to me obvious and it seems others too, why would it be necessary to CARB certify these parts? Could it be maybe partly because the rules are not clearly defined and even manufacturers are uncertain of these so called "grey areas"Â* too? Or... does the fact that they go through the process of certifying these parts give them the market selling advantage over their competitor products. You know..."Hey..We got the sticker and you guys don't." I think if most the consumers are just as confused which one would you buy?? These are just my common sense thoughts on the matter.



Now lets get back to the original question or point I was trying to make, what is the point of spending money and time to carb certify a part if its not necessary? I mean its common sense, and if it doesn't make sense than its probably not true.



Let me clarify what I meant by grey area. There are alot of questionable regulation on test only stations, for example one would be that B.A.R never stated in both books that if working on my own vehicle is allow during operating or after hours. I have contacted the field office on winchester and spoke with Shawn and Alex about this issue, and they both agreed that the "book" never set a clear boundary if you can or not. So when I say that ther are grey areas in the books, it only regarding station regulation and has nothing to do with aftermarket performance parts and eo numbers. As I stat above I do not recall any part of both books stating that any particular performance parts being exempt from being carb certified.

typhoon 28
04-28-2008, 08:04 PM
mine has the blue samco's on the stock pipes since I bought it, never had legal or high boost"pop-off" trouble. Think I wanna get the black samco's w/ decals taken off though.


oh yeah- I also took the "clean air course" & have the blue book.

nightwalker
04-28-2008, 10:41 PM
Now you guys have me thinking. I have to go back and do some research. I left the Gold Shield station I use to work for in Truckee partly because the smog business was starting to get to me. I did have this conversation with my BAR rep and we went through the book together, just have to figure out where.

I will say that the BAR is totally fucked up with their rules. We've cornered our BAR rep a couple times with certain regulations.

Smogmeevo, your are much braver than I to own your own Test only place. I'm getting into the tire business. Screw smog. :D