Works 269's or HKS 264/272's?

[Dr. Evo]

Well, that time has come and I am on the fence about which cams to use. I have only found spec's from Works site about power gains (29HP/TQ claim) and nothing on the HKS. I have Driven an Evo with HKS cams, and many DSM's with HKS cams, but have yet to see aN Evo with the 269's. The HKS cams are even cheaper, and being that I work for DSS here in San luis Obispo, I can get an even cheaper price on the HKS's. BUT what do you who have experienced both think? I know that the Works crew is going to tell me to get their cams, and I welcome their input. BTW, the car will be running an
Emanage and E-01 with custom DSS tune, and the cams and cam gears, maybe Vsprings, along with the TBE I have on it now. That is all as far as engine, or so I keep telling myself. I am thinking also about the Aperature. Anyway, any input will be appreciated.

[garrick70]

Well, that time has come and I am on the fence about which cams to use. I have only found spec's from Works site about power gains (29HP/TQ claim) and nothing on the HKS. I have Driven an Evo with HKS cams, and many DSM's with HKS cams, but have yet to see aN Evo with the 269's. The HKS cams are even cheaper, and being that I work for DSS here in San luis Obispo, I can get an even cheaper price on the HKS's. BUT what do you who have experienced both think? I know that the Works crew is going to tell me to get their cams, and I welcome their input. BTW, the car will be running an
Emanage and E-01 with custom DSS tune, and the cams and cam gears, maybe Vsprings, along with the TBE I have on it now. That is all as far as engine, or so I keep telling myself. I am thinking also about the Aperature. Anyway, any input will be appreciated.

Ahhh.... The question I have struggled with for 4 months. :wink:

[JanSolo]

I don't think anyone has actually done an accurate and public comparison between the different cams out there to come up with a good answer on the power differences. This might be a good idea for a future issue of TPR Magazine.

[EvoVIII]

can any 1 tell me why not go with 264/264??

[egui42]

Jer, the exact question I was pondering last night. Searched all over and have no answer yet.

[Evo442]

For all of the agonizing that I did over which cams to go with, my guess is that there is very little difference, performance wise, between the HKS and the Works cams.

I went with the Works Cams because I already had their P2 flash and wanted the car tuned specifically for the cams that I was running. They dont have a P2 flash specifically for the HKS cams. If you are using a standalone or piggyback unit, then this isn't an issue for you.

Works says that their cams dont need adjustable cam gears, and produce a near stock idle. In all honesty, the idle is a little lumpier than I would have liked. Although the HKS cams are cheaper, if you add cam gears to the mix (vs the Works 269's w/o gears), the costs probably equal out.

I dont think you can really go wrong with either the HKS or Works cams. FWIW, i've been very happy with my Works cams.

I'm hoping to get my car dyno'd in the next few days. I'll post the graphs if I do. Wont provide the direct comparison you're looking for, but may have some interesting info for you.

Good luck!

[evo_dadi]

lol hey doug nobody said you cant do 264/264,its all up to you and to what kind of set up youre trying to do.i have the hks 264/264 on my evo right now and i love them :twisted:

[300kpa]

I don't think anyone has actually done an accurate and public comparison between the different cams out there to come up with a good answer on the power differences. This might be a good idea for a future issue of TPR Magazine.

Here is a website with the cam comparison tests... it's not for EVO, but I think DSM is close enough for us as a reference.

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp

[Jamie@WORKS]

Well, that time has come and I am on the fence about which cams to use. I have only found spec's from Works site about power gains (29HP/TQ claim) and nothing on the HKS. I have Driven an Evo with HKS cams, and many DSM's with HKS cams, but have yet to see aN Evo with the 269's. The HKS cams are even cheaper, and being that I work for DSS here in San luis Obispo, I can get an even cheaper price on the HKS's. BUT what do you who have experienced both think? I know that the Works crew is going to tell me to get their cams, and I welcome their input. BTW, the car will be running an
Emanage and E-01 with custom DSS tune, and the cams and cam gears, maybe Vsprings, along with the TBE I have on it now. That is all as far as engine, or so I keep telling myself. I am thinking also about the Aperature. Anyway, any input will be appreciated.

If you're looking at only the cost of the cams, then the WORKS 269 ($349 each-MSRP) are slightly higher than the HKS ($335 each-MSRP). BUT don't forget to factor in that the HKS cams were originally designed for the world market EVO VII while the WORKS cams are built solely for the US-Spec EVO VIII. What this translates to as that the WORKS cams are uniquely indexed to provide excellent results using the stock cam gears. Optimizing the HKS cams may require you to use their adjustable cam gears ($190 each-MSRP). Then you have to factor in tuning which climbs in price very quickly unless you're running a WORKS Brain Flash. Our engineers have already done the tuning for you and will load an updated version of the software for FREE for all P2 customers who get the 269 cams.

So, recap:

WORKS:
349
349
698

HKS:
335
335
190
190
???
$$$$

Then again, I might be a little biased :)

[DRFTR8]

those are nice cams, but im going a different way... i just found out that Comp Cams makes one for the EVO and Brent from Moda was telling me about the ForcedFed cams.. but i got the cam kit i ordered from the PI (Tomei) when my parents went home... :D

[Buzzard]

Lets not forget Piper cams, these are what many of the Euro guys like. They are a bit more money but are supposed to well worth it. I will probably run Pipers once I decide to make the plunge. They will require some head work, most likely, but I see no point in adding cams if your not going to open up the head to take advantage of them.

Check here (http://www.quantum-racing.com/index.htm) for Piper and other goodies.

[JanSolo]

those are nice cams, but im going a different way... i just found out that Comp Cams makes one for the EVO and Brent from Moda was telling me about the ForcedFed cams.. but i got the cam kit i ordered from the PI (Tomei) when my parents went home... :D

Aren't the cams that ForcedFed uses Revolver Cams? Last I heard, they make less power than the HKS cams - and I got this info from multiple tuners, all who have gone back to HKS as their defacto cam choice.


Then you have to factor in tuning which climbs in price very quickly unless you're running a WORKS Brain Flash.

But for someone who doesn't have the P2, then they have to either buy the P2 or get a custom tune from another tuner if they decide to run the 269s, which may change the economics of the situation.

[Jamie@WORKS]

Then you have to factor in tuning which climbs in price very quickly unless you're running a WORKS Brain Flash.

But for someone who doesn't have the P2, then they have to either buy the P2 or get a custom tune from another tuner if they decide to run the 269s, which may change the economics of the situation.

You don't have to get the P2 in order to run WORKS cams. Just as you don't have to get any tune to use any cams. You can pop them in and go and still have noticeable improvements. In order to fully benefit and extract 100% (vs. 90%?), then the flash/tuning would come into play.

[GokuSSJ4]

piper cams last time they did a test on (conducted by GT40 in socal) didnt show great results. they might be good for a stock turbo , same as the revolvers cams.
GT40 made 80-90whp more then the pipers with 272/272 HKS cams vs 265/265 10.8/11.5mm pipers
so far HKS have showned the best results with either stock turbo and after market

[JanSolo]

piper cams last time they did a test on (conducted by GT40 in socal) didnt show great results. they might be good for a stock turbo , same as the revolvers cams.
GT40 made 80-90whp more then the pipers with 272/272 HKS cams vs 265/265 10.8/11.5mm pipers
so far HKS have showned the best results with either stock turbo and after market

That test was quickly shown to be flawed when Norris Designs came in and gave their two cents worth. GT40 posted his results on the UKs Lancer Register and it was quickly pointed out that they forgot to use cam gears.

You can see the thread here:

Click here (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=1b5df2da66d21c9f12f7979d4c9b135c&threadid=60544)

[GokuSSJ4]

piper cams last time they did a test on (conducted by GT40 in socal) didnt show great results. they might be good for a stock turbo , same as the revolvers cams.
GT40 made 80-90whp more then the pipers with 272/272 HKS cams vs 265/265 10.8/11.5mm pipers
so far HKS have showned the best results with either stock turbo and after market

That test was quickly shown to be flawed when Norris Designs came in and gave their two cents worth. GT40 posted his results on the UKs Lancer Register and it was quickly pointed out that they forgot to use cam gears.

You can see the thread here:

Click here (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=1b5df2da66d21c9f12f7979d4c9b135c&threadid=60544)

awhile ago when tuning a car cam gears would make a huge difference, never though it would affect the same on an Evo. I wonder if some one can tune my cam gears to gain 40whp :mrgreen: im looking foward to it, even if i gain 10whp i will be happy.
Honestly 80whp is a huge difference i can not imagine that tuning cam gears with the pipers will make such a huge difference.

[Dr. Evo]

Thanks for all the input everyone. It turns out that due to a couple of overwhelming circumstances, I may not be tuning with the Emanage and E01, and may try out a P2 flash. If this is the case, I will definately go with Works' cams. Is there a package from Works that does not include exhaust (I have a 3" RMR TBE already), but includes P2/cams/aperture (Jaime)?

[carbonevo8]

(JAMIE)i was also curious to know if cam gears would help the performance of the works cams? i know they are designed for the stock cam gears, but would adjustable cam gears improve the perfromance of the works cams? i curently have the works cams and i must say they aren't bad at all. i was a bit sceptical at first but after ridding in a car with similar mods and hks 272/272 cams i was suprised to say that i was happier with my works 269/269 cams. the idle is the same with both, but the power band seems smoother and stronger with the works cams. im not sure which set makes more hp or torque, but im sure they are only seperated by 1 or 2. but heres the gimmick that i see that really seperates them both. to get the works cams and p2 flash that gives you the maximum performance is gonna cost you around 1200 and labor. now for the hks you'll need cam gears and some type of tune or stand alone ecu that will give you the most out of them. not sure if theres a flash for them but id figure at least a few hours of dyno tunning along with it your looking at well over 1600 and labor. plus you dont get a warranty like you do from works. thats how i made my decision to buy works cams i hope this helps.

[garrick70]

I went for a ride in dyuyeno's car. He has everythin I have in my signature below, but he has the WORKS cams and springs/retainers. All I can say is :shock: ! When I drove his car the entire front end visably lifted as the rear end squatted down and brutally surged forward. Awsome!

I would be curious if cam gears could also help to dial out some of the lopiness at idle??

[DRFTR8]

Aren't the cams that ForcedFed uses Revolver Cams? Last I heard, they make less power than the HKS cams - and I got this info from multiple tuners, all who have gone back to HKS as their defacto cam choice.

Yeah, those are the revolver cams.. but what i heard was different, they are less agressive than Tomei but slightly more agressive than HKS

[GokuSSJ4]

Aren't the cams that ForcedFed uses Revolver Cams? Last I heard, they make less power than the HKS cams - and I got this info from multiple tuners, all who have gone back to HKS as their defacto cam choice.

Yeah, those are the revolver cams.. but what i heard was different, they are less agressive than Tomei but slightly more agressive than HKS

unless they have custom cams
these are the specs : Part Number: rev.4g63e.262/264
Application: Mitsubishi 4G63 Evolution, 4 cylinder 16 valve
Duration / Intake: 262º
Duration / Exhaust: 264º
Valve Lift / Intake: 11.4 mm
Valve Lift / Exhaust: 11.5 mm
Notes: Hydraulic lash, no adjustment necessary
Additional Required Items: Revolver Valvespring and Retainer kit # rev.vsrk.4g63

with tomei cams they have several available as well
duration 260/260 Valve Lift 11.5mm
duration 270/270 Valve Lift 11.5mm
new duration 280/280 Valve Lift 11.5mm

[Jamie@WORKS]

Thanks for all the input everyone. It turns out that due to a couple of overwhelming circumstances, I may not be tuning with the Emanage and E01, and may try out a P2 flash. If this is the case, I will definately go with Works' cams. Is there a package from Works that does not include exhaust (I have a 3" RMR TBE already), but includes P2/cams/aperture (Jaime)?

WORKS can get a package deal together for you. You're basically looking at our TR340 minus the exhaust components. I'll get something together for you and send you a PM or feel free to give us a call :)

[Jamie@WORKS]

(JAMIE)i was also curious to know if cam gears would help the performance of the works cams? i know they are designed for the stock cam gears, but would adjustable cam gears improve the perfromance of the works cams? i curently have the works cams and i must say they aren't bad at all. i was a bit sceptical at first but after ridding in a car with similar mods and hks 272/272 cams i was suprised to say that i was happier with my works 269/269 cams. the idle is the same with both, but the power band seems smoother and stronger with the works cams. im not sure which set makes more hp or torque, but im sure they are only seperated by 1 or 2. but heres the gimmick that i see that really seperates them both. to get the works cams and p2 flash that gives you the maximum performance is gonna cost you around 1200 and labor. now for the hks you'll need cam gears and some type of tune or stand alone ecu that will give you the most out of them. not sure if theres a flash for them but id figure at least a few hours of dyno tunning along with it your looking at well over 1600 and labor. plus you dont get a warranty like you do from works. thats how i made my decision to buy works cams i hope this helps.

As mentioned, the WORKS 269 cams were indexed so that you wouldn't need cam gears. This isn't saying that you might be able to get more peak power with the gears. Other factors to consider are whether it's going to be more useable power (i.e. widespread across the RPM band), whether or not it's going to be reliable/safe (even I can tune a car for a big spike on a dyno chart, but it wouldn't be my own ;)) and would it be worth the additional cost--not to mention the rotating mass. In the end, the choice is always yours, but WORKS doesn't see the need for them.

[Absinthe]

awhile ago when tuning a car cam gears would make a huge difference, never though it would affect the same on an Evo. I wonder if some one can tune my cam gears to gain 40whp :mrgreen: im looking foward to it, even if i gain 10whp i will be happy.
Honestly 80whp is a huge difference i can not imagine that tuning cam gears with the pipers will make such a huge difference.

doesnt surprise me when you are talking about a car like marks thats only a 15% Power loss.

[DnB_design]

WORKS can get a package deal together for you. You're basically looking at our TR340 minus the exhaust components. I'll get something together for you and send you a PM or feel free to give us a call :)

Hey Jamie can you send me some info on this too. I would like to have the same setup. :thumbsup: Thank's

[GokuSSJ4]

doesnt surprise me when you are talking about a car like marks thats only a 15% Power loss.
15% is alot, specially for tuning cam gears.

[hksevo8]

I am biased, and feel the need to mention that everytime I read a write up about an EVO in ANY magazine, 8 out of 10 times, the cam of choice is HKS. I don't think that is just coincidence. Besides, if you are changing the cams, why would you not use adjustable cam gears????? Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your choice... :D

PS. Please do not take any of this as a personal attack towards any of the other posts for this topic.

[Zeus]

Keep in mind the the HKS cams were also the most widely available/most known... so that doesn't suprise me.

[hksevo8]

Keep in mind the the HKS cams were also the most widely available/most known... so that doesn't suprise me.

good point

[Option2]

I just got my 269 cams installed today. The difference is night and day. At WOT the car pulls HARD :shock: It just wants to keep pulling all the way to redline.

[egui42]

I just got my 269 cams installed today. The difference is night and day. At WOT the car pulls HARD :shock: It just wants to keep pulling all the way to redline.

Did you have the yellow evo? I was the one with the red evo getting things put into it. :P

[Option2]

I just got my 269 cams installed today. The difference is night and day. At WOT the car pulls HARD :shock: It just wants to keep pulling all the way to redline.

Did you have the yellow evo? I was the one with the red evo getting things put into it. :P

Yeah that was me :D

[wilson1]

I just got my 269 cams installed today. The difference is night and day. At WOT the car pulls HARD :shock: It just wants to keep pulling all the way to redline.

Yeah, cams really open up the evo at high rpms.

[egui42]

I just got my 269 cams installed today. The difference is night and day. At WOT the car pulls HARD :shock: It just wants to keep pulling all the way to redline.

Did you have the yellow evo? I was the one with the red evo getting things put into it. :P

Yeah that was me :D

Sounds pretty nice, cant wait till I get my cams. :wink:

[xchoirboy]

Been pondering what would be the advantage of just adding cam gears? Is there any? Would I have to upgrade the fuel pump or any other items? :oops: