Dyno'ed my car, not sure what to make of the results

[vtluu]

Got the car dyno'ed at Gruppe-S this morning. I wanted to make sure that after installing the catback, panel air filter and WORKS P1 I was getting roughly the right amount of power.

Mike did about 6 pulls, the first few showed a bit less power and torque than the last few but otherwise the results were fairly self-consistent.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzM1ODE2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

And this is what the car looked like bone-stock on the same dyno a few months back:

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album182/dyno1.sized.jpg

All in all I got less power than I expected (I figured I should be getting around 240 whp), but (even discounting the spike) gobs more torque. Also, Mike said that the AFR, which started out at 13 and tapered down to 11.7, was a bit lower than he'd recommend for 91 octane (although today I was running a 93-octane 91-100 mix).

Thoughts? Comments?

[rodw]

Nice tq gain +48 @4250 :D

they can't overlay the two graphs?

[nebolic]

well i can see that you were a bit dissapointed in that your HP gain wasn't that much, but the torque gain is pretty good. Remember HP will let you have that top speed and torque will help you accelerate . . .

Do you think if you went with the P2 that it will have a bigger gain?

Also remember that dyno's is just a numbers gain. Have you auto crossed yet with your new set up? Maybe there will be your biggest difference, I mean if you can pull out faster times....

Not really sure what to tell you...

Nebo

[vtluu]

Well it is what it is, what I really care about is that there's nothing wrong with the car (and there's nothing that really leads me to believe that there is). A P2 will definitely make more power simply by upping the boost level, and eventually I'll upgrade to that. I figured that since I was eventually going to get the P2 (but not right now because of cone-dodging rules ;)) I had nothing to lose by getting the P1 first--call it a "deposit" on my P2. Certainly the car feels quicker off the line and at least the numbers confirm that.

[GokuSSJ4]

Well it is what it is, what I really care about is that there's nothing wrong with the car (and there's nothing that really leads me to believe that there is). A P2 will definitely make more power simply by upping the boost level, and eventually I'll upgrade to that. I figured that since I was eventually going to get the P2 (but not right now because of cone-dodging rules ;)) I had nothing to lose by getting the P1 first--call it a "deposit" on my P2. Certainly the car feels quicker off the line and at least the numbers confirm that.

remember that you are still getting tapper at top end (reason why you have no top end at all -hp-wise)
im sure once you get your P2 or a MBC and some tuning to change the air/fuel ratios , the entire power band should change. First time i have seen some one dyno there car with just the P1 (most folks that i know have the P2)

[evo_dadi]

looking good tam :)

[smogrunner]

The 12 hp gain from stock could mostly be a result of using the higher octane fuel (unless you did that on your baseline pulls).

The torque curve starts life looking promising but drops off more dramatically and earlier than I'd like to see. Decent gains but no plateau.

I'd imagine your car feels awesome at low rpms - like something big is about to happen - only to fall kind of fall flat.

[vtluu]

The 12 hp gain from stock could mostly be a result of using the higher octane fuel (unless you did that on your baseline pulls).
I doubt it; word is the Evo's ECU is tuned (stock) for 91 octane and isn't adaptive like the STi's, so 93 octane won't really do that much for it. My P1 flash is a 91-octane map too; I'd love to do a 93-octane map but don't want to have to do a 93 octane mix at every fillup (also don't want to drive 10 miles to do it, or keep 100-octane around in gas cans), and don't want to get pinging with 91 octane. The catback is definitely part of the power gain; don't know how much the P1 is contributing. Given those are my only two power mods (and the Blitz panel air filter but I doubt that does anything at all) I guess I should be satisfied.

It's a preview of things to come I guess; with a P2 the taper will be fixed and the torque curve should hopefully stay high all the way through redline. I've heard rumours Street Prepared rules may be changed to allow ECU changes to boost control. That would be sweet. In the meantime I still have a few power mod options that are available to me: I may overhaul the rest of the exhaust system--exhaust manifold, O2 housing, downpipe, high-flow cat... Throttle body if it's allowed, '05 turbo housing and cams.

Mostly though with all the mods I've put in the car in the "off-season" I think the driver needs to catch up with the car again. ;)

[wilson1]

Tam,

How would they know whether you have the P1 or P2?

[vtluu]

Tam,

How would they know whether you have the P1 or P2?
They wouldn't. It's called good sportsmanship. Apparently a rare thing these days. :tisk:

[wilson1]

Are you running in the same class as Joe?

[kataklyzm]

dont be too disappointed, i got 238hp and i forgot what the tq was with a ground kit, P2 and turboback with 76 100 oct. the main reason i was told by the guy at gruppe s was the boost with the p2 doesnt stay still like it should, but theres an update for that now from what works told me

[vtluu]

Are you running in the same class as Joe?
Joe Masters or Joe Harrison (joe250)? I think the former is still running in A Stock, the latter is not autocrossing regularly this year. I'll be running in the same class as chrisw though.

Anyway, back on topic... :)

[GokuSSJ4]

how much power do you see from a stock evo ??

[wilson1]

nM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]

And this is what the car looked like bone-stock on the same dyno a few months back:

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album182/dyno1.sized.jpg

[MarkSAE]

If your P1 flash was for 91 octane, you should have been running 91 octane! Running higher octane without the proper tuning will make you LOSE power.

Higher octane fuel burns slower and needs more timing advance to make power. Running 93 octane on 91 octane timing will make you lose power.

[V8KiLL3R]

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/modules.php?set_albumName=album47&id=dyno_4&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
here's mine done during that meet at gruppe-s
P2, cat back helix

[hagakure]

If your P1 flash was for 91 octane, you should have been running 91 octane! Running higher octane without the proper tuning will make you LOSE power.

Higher octane fuel burns slower and needs more timing advance to make power. Running 93 octane on 91 octane timing will make you lose power.

I'm not so sure that this is true....there are several documented instances of folks running higher octane fuel on lower octane maps and making power. This is why you can run 100 octane on the factory tune without incident, and in fact make more power. If this is wrong, tuners, etc, please chime in with more feedback. I always run 100 octane at the track for increased safety, knock resistence, etc. If this is not advantageous, I'd like to know.


Percy

[Evo442]

If your P1 flash was for 91 octane, you should have been running 91 octane! Running higher octane without the proper tuning will make you LOSE power.

Higher octane fuel burns slower and needs more timing advance to make power. Running 93 octane on 91 octane timing will make you lose power.

I'm not so sure that this is true....there are several documented instances of folks running higher octane fuel on lower octane maps and making power. This is why you can run 100 octane on the factory tune without incident, and in fact make more power. If this is wrong, tuners, etc, please chime in with more feedback. I always run 100 octane at the track for increased safety, knock resistence, etc. If this is not advantageous, I'd like to know.


Percy

I'm not so sure that this is true either. Spoke with Chris and Tyler at works about the above just a few days ago.

One of the things that I had done was reflash my ecu down to the 91 octane P2 flash from the 93 octane map. They said that there really isnt much of a difference between the two maps, just some difference in when the ecu drops down to the safe map/amt of timing pulled, so I dont think that there is any power loss running 93 octane fuel in a 91 octane flashed car.

I asked them specifically if there was a benefit to adding race gas to a normally flashed (ie 91 octane flash) car, and the answer was a definite yes. Their explanation, was that, among other things, the ecu will pull less timing on the higher octane fuel, thus give you more power.

Its true that there is a point of diminishing return in terms of octane, and too high of an octane level will be detrimental, but not at the octane levels we're talking about here.

[MarkSAE]

One of the things that I had done was reflash my ecu down to the 91 octane P2 flash from the 93 octane map. They said that there really isnt much of a difference between the two maps, just some difference in when the ecu drops down to the safe map/amt of timing pulled, so I dont think that there is any power loss running 93 octane fuel in a 91 octane flashed car.

I asked them specifically if there was a benefit to adding race gas to a normally flashed (ie 91 octane flash) car, and the answer was a definite yes. Their explanation, was that, among other things, the ecu will pull less timing on the higher octane fuel, thus give you more power.

Its true that there is a point of diminishing return in terms of octane, and too high of an octane level will be detrimental, but not at the octane levels we're talking about here.

Oh okay. I know there's a self-adjusting octane value stored by the ECU that can adapt to better gas if we put some in. But the range of self-adjustment is limited. I was thinking more about the 114 octane and higher gas. Just putting that stuff in without any tuning will make you lose power.

[EFIxMR]

what gear was your pull done in? they say its best to run the car in 3rd. and let the car cool down between runs for best results. the evo computer seems really finiky and temp dependent.

[Absinthe]

lame question on my part but how does a mustang dyno read vs Dyno Dynamics and DynoJet?

[evo_dadi]

i always thought that the mustang and dyno dynamics almost reads the same results and they are pretty close to each other.while the dynojet gives out a higher whp# thus everybodys favorite for dyno days ;)

[Mo Evo]

I have the Works 303 pkg and that includes the P2, right? So does the P2 allow for higher boost levels on the 91 I'm running. Cause I think it got into an overboost situation one time. Running 60 mph in 5th, stomped on it and the fuel cut out for a split second before wham, BIG shove in the back. Hasn't done it since tho. And I can't recreate it.

Mo

[garrick70]

I have the Works 303 pkg and that includes the P2, right? So does the P2 allow for higher boost levels on the 91 I'm running. Cause I think it got into an overboost situation one time. Running 60 mph in 5th, stomped on it and the fuel cut out for a split second before wham, BIG shove in the back. Hasn't done it since tho. And I can't recreate it.

Mo

Yeah the 303 includes the P2. I have the TR303 with DP and HFC, and I think you might have been experiencing boost spike.

[JanSolo]

i always thought that the mustang and dyno dynamics almost reads the same results and they are pretty close to each other.while the dynojet gives out a higher whp# thus everybodys favorite for dyno days ;)

I just thought that the Dynojets were the industry standard. I also heard through the grapevine that DynoDynamics was getting an update so their numbers read more like Dynojets.

[EvolvedDSM]

If your P1 flash was for 91 octane, you should have been running 91 octane! Running higher octane without the proper tuning will make you LOSE power.

Higher octane fuel burns slower and needs more timing advance to make power. Running 93 octane on 91 octane timing will make you lose power.

I'm with Mark on this one. While a small change (93 octane when tuned on 91) probably won't make any difference, a large change (117 on 91 octane) will cause you to lose power. I ran straight 100 octane on my stock EVO and found only marginal improvements (.1 quicker and 1 MPH faster in the quarter mile) vs. 93 pump. However, my margin of safety went up exponentially and it is something I would consider again if I were to get out and flog the car all day on a road course.

[hagakure]

Power is definitely secondary to safety when you are running the car hard on a road course, that's why I will spend the $$ and always run 100 octane at the track.


Percy

[wilson1]

Power is definitely secondary to safety when you are running the car hard on a road course, that's why I will spend the $$ and always run 100 octane at the track.


Percy

i agree!

[turbotiger]

I do believe our cars are tuned for 93-94 octane. Our cars have a very dynamic ignition map. You just need to let the ecu re-learn that it has higher octane. Usually resetting the ecu and letting it run for a while will get the ecu to bump up the timing. Compared to our 91, dumping in 100 octane will probably net you somewhere around 20 hp gain.