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View Full Version : Xflash driving impression and also my theory other flashes



nebolic
01-28-2004, 08:52 PM
:shock: I got the Vishnu Xflash today, let me tell you guys that its a monster to drive and I second the fact that Shiv is crazy mofo, he test drove my shiznit and he drove my car the way its meant to be driven, I was shitting bricks for a few seconds whilst in the car during the test drive.

That aside, my first impressions of Xflash are as follows:
If you granny shift and drive normally, it makes no difference between stock and xflash, not that anyone didnt know that... however once you start to open more than 50% throttle, the beast awakens.

Peak boost on my evo right now is pretty insane, i'll give more details later, but I'm having to shift through 1st to 3rd in a matter of seconds, I do not have too much time to watch my Tach and check my boost gauge, after a quick glance, i need to shift (god damn it pulls hard) and I definetly feel mid range to upper range torque improve dramitically. For the price, i think its money well spent. That being said, I am not a hardcore tuner, thus I just went with the xflash and not the xede/xflash combo. However, the car is indeed a different beast after the xflash and torque and the power band feels smoother. Now some details:

The only mods i have on the car is a HKS Catback and K&N drop in filter.

My theory on the boost.

First off, when people say in the stock car that the boost peaks at 19psi and tapers to 16psi, there is a miss conception, Im not sure about other people but for me as a newbie i thought that it hits 19psi of boost and slowly tapers down to 16 psi, however that is not the case. In case you dont have a boost gauge this is how the boost works on a stock car.

WOT = hits 19psi for a split second and immediatly it drops to 16psi and stays there until redline.

Now thats how stock boost works, hope that helps the newbies, cuz i didnt know thats what it did, i had the misunderstanding of the longer tapers of boost.

.......

Works P2 flash:
From what I've seen and ridden in a P2flashed car, this is how the boost works:
WOT = hits 20psi for about 1 second then tapers to 19psi (again instant drop) but however, this holds to redline, so now you're boosting at 19psi constantly, 3psi over what stock does, is that better??? I have no idea, but thats how boost is working on a P2 flash.

......

Vishnu Xflash:
This is based on my car and what I've seen during my test drive.

WOT = hits 23psi (yes 23 god damn psi, crazy shiznit) holds boost there for 1-2 seconds, then drops/tapers to 21psi, holds that for 1-2 seconds drops to 19 psi holds that for 1-2 seconds, then tapers 18psi and stays there till redline.

As you can see, when Vishnu advertises his xflash to taper from peak boost to 18 psi, his really does taper in the sense that it slow drops, however in the Stock trim, when people are saying boost is tapered down to 16psi, its a misconception, i think the beter way to describe it is to say hits peak boost and drops down to 16psi.

Now on why people feel xflash is pulling harder than p2 flash:

As you can read above, p2 flash only hits 20psi peak, however with xflash i am hitting 23 psi for almost 2 seconds and then drops to 21psi and then 19psi...
for the first 1-2 seconds i'm boosting 3 psi over works p2flash, and the following 1-2 seconds i'm still boosting 2 psi over works p2flash because p2flash has dropped to 19psi where as xflash is dropping to 21psi, on the following 1-2 seconds both cars are boosting at 19psi and the folllowing 1-2 seconds p2flash is only 1psi over xflash, but at that time, i believe both cars rev should be ~around 6000rpm to 6500rpm therefore you have less than a second before the next shift, and during the next gear, the same happens, thus xflash inadvertenly will always be faster than p2flash unless your both in 4th gear or 5th gear and topping out, but even then, its still pretty even given theres only 1 pound of boost difference verses the many psi of boost xflash has already pulled on p2flash during the initial phase of the turbo spool.

Hope this makes sense to some people and also that it can be a reference point for people to decide on which flash to get.

Eddy
Not stock Evo anymore
:twisted:

warpspeed
01-28-2004, 09:18 PM
So how long did it take for master Shiv to do your Evo? BTW did Shiv recommend to upgrade the hoses since it's boosting higher? How much did he charge you?(PM me) thanks.

Noel

evo_dadi
01-28-2004, 10:03 PM
thats a pretty good observation and this made me to decide on sticking with the xflash but i am wondering about warpspeeds qustion bout the hoses if they would be able to hold out with this insane show of boost increase.but the part thats killing me is that i want to get some more parts installed before i do a reflash so i dont have to re-do it again.

nebolic
01-28-2004, 10:14 PM
for clarification purposes, shiv took out a pill in my valve and replaced/extended a bleeder valve on there, cuz i remember shiv saying that if the pill is in the valve it cannot sustain the higher boost. hope that helps. and i think you might be able to work something out with shiv if you do more upgrades later.

howiEVO8
01-29-2004, 12:50 AM
nice obvervations :) I follow ya completely...i'll PM you, i got more questions hehe

JanSolo
01-29-2004, 01:26 AM
That's all really good info for everyone. When I first drove Xchoirboys Evo, I was shocked how much initial power I felt from the car. This explains a lot. Good write up and thanks for sharing with the class.

chris
01-29-2004, 08:11 AM
thats why im saving up for an xflash after i save up getting a turbo-back lol. =X

DB8GSR
01-29-2004, 08:49 AM
Nebolic... great writeup man! That's exactly how I felt when Shiv drove mine and he just went all out. LoL!! :twisted:

nebolic
01-29-2004, 09:20 AM
thanks for the input guys, people here a lot more friendly than EvoM, I placed the same post up there, and people are getting off track and it was turning into a piss contest. Hey DB8GSR I think I have the same set up as you, I gotta change my signature in a few minutes but I'm running a HKS catback + Vishun Xflash + K&N filter ... I drive a Tarmac baclk too .... holy crap we have twins argggghh!!!!!!

GokuSSJ4
01-29-2004, 10:35 AM
what were your final #s went shiv was done with your car ??
great review :)

nebolic
01-29-2004, 11:02 AM
didnt dyno my car, cuz its a pricey process to do and besides the fact that i only have a catback and drop in filter, i dont feel the necessity to do dyno tune, maybe further down the line i will go for it.

ytsejam
01-29-2004, 11:43 AM
good observation. can't wait for the next meet to check out your car, eddy :)

questions:
1. since i have P2, i wonder if my boost will go up after catback install. i've heard that you can gain somewhere between nothing to 1psi after catback. i know for sure that ppl with TB has experienced a boost increase(1-2psi).

2. about the pill removal. i wonder if WORKS P2 boost hose included this and if not, can it be removed without major compromise to the engine and boost?

thx

nebolic
01-29-2004, 12:01 PM
1. i think it would be normal for boost to gain 1psi at peak... not constant boost cuz i think p2 sets your boost at 19psi regardless of what you add... (could be wrong on this)

2. The replacement hose that Works provide doesnt have the pill inside, so essentialy your pill has been removed, the upgrade to the P2 from P1 is that hose i believe.

xchoirboy
01-29-2004, 12:11 PM
Nebolic... great writeup man! That's exactly how I felt when Shiv drove mine and he just went all out. LoL!! :twisted:
Ditto - I thought the drive was kinda fun. Although I'll never drive it to that limit. To me after the flash it seems that it all seems smoother. Gas mileage has seemed to improve, as long as I don't have my foot into it. Which at this point is rare (havn too much fun). :twisted:

ytsejam
01-29-2004, 02:52 PM
we'll see what the fact is after i add my exhaust.

we will know for sure if it's hardcoded to the ecu or not. (19psi peak boost, that is)

shit i need more mods to hang with nebolic now... ;)

thomas
01-29-2004, 10:13 PM
heres some questions for everyone:

is it better to peak @ 23 and taper to 18-19 psi eventually or hold constant pressure @ 19psi to redline? and if so...

is it safe to be peaking at 23? is the car still running rich, fuel upgrade?

is your redline raised, nebolic?

im leaning towards the works p2, juss 'cause i really dont want to peak @ 23. i like the idea of holding constant boost till redline, imo.

cheers.

sorry for the broken english. i flunked "hookd un fhoniks" haha.

Shiv@Vishnu
01-30-2004, 12:55 AM
There are more differences that just boost control strategies between the different reflash. Please realize that boost is only 1 out of the 3 components involved in engine tuning. Try not to obsess too much about the differences in boost curves between the different reflashes. What really matters is how the boost is used (in conjuction with fuel delivery and spark timing) that yields the results we are all looking for.

Regards,
shiv

thomas
01-30-2004, 01:03 AM
There are more differences that just boost control strategies between the different reflash. Please realize that boost is only 1 out of the 3 components involved in engine tuning. Try not to obsess too much about the differences in boost curves between the different reflashes. What really matters is how the boost is used (in conjuction with fuel delivery and spark timing) that yields the results we are all looking for.

Regards,
shiv

but, but, but...i love boooooost. haha. excellent point, nonetheless
*bows down* haha :idea:

EvolvedDSM
01-30-2004, 06:36 AM
There are more differences that just boost control strategies between the different reflash. Please realize that boost is only 1 out of the 3 components involved in engine tuning. Try not to obsess too much about the differences in boost curves between the different reflashes. What really matters is how the boost is used (in conjuction with fuel delivery and spark timing) that yields the results we are all looking for.

Regards,
shiv

Has anyone here logged their car w/ Shiv's flash? Just curious how things are looking.

nebolic
01-30-2004, 09:17 AM
we will end all arguments this saturday, Gilbert has a p2flash with works axle back (works prepped), I have a vishnu xlfash and 3 inch catback. We are going to "test" to see which one pulls, and we will post the results on ASAP, btw this will be just a rough estimate on which :twisted: flash has the bigger balls hahaha, j/k about the bigger balls part but we are going to see which flash pulls hard... :shock:

chris
01-30-2004, 09:31 AM
lets see who really does have the balls lol =X

nebolic
01-30-2004, 09:40 AM
deez nuts

warpspeed
01-30-2004, 09:54 AM
Say Eddy, did you upgrade you hoses for the higher boost? If so I want to change the hoses first or go hard pipe before I get the Xflash. I don't the hoses popping off when i drive it hard. Did Shiv say anything about that?

thanks

nebolic
01-30-2004, 09:58 AM
itsa hose he added/replaced underneath the air box, i didnt quite see which hose it was cuz its hard to peek in there when Shiv was working on it, but he didnt mention anything about the hose popping off so i'm assuming its pretty safe. BTW for everyones info im running the Stock DV and it seems to be holding the boost quite well.

warpspeed
01-30-2004, 10:03 AM
Thanks for the info. Gruppe-s has the intake hoses at a great price. I might roll down there in a little bit to pick up a set and met the guys over there. Or maybe if the weather still sucks, I might just call them up since its free shipping.

nebolic
01-30-2004, 10:05 AM
No prob, hey quick question, do you want to meet earlier on Saturday say around 8pm?

warpspeed
01-30-2004, 10:07 AM
I'll see what my cousin has planned for saturday. It's getting to be a big family event. You know how that goes. I might get stuck there.

nebolic
01-30-2004, 10:08 AM
aight, no prob, gilbert and i will be there starting at 8pm till midnight i think.

ytsejam
01-30-2004, 04:07 PM
oh cmmon, xflash + catback and me just p2 +axle back....

i want to run anyways just to see how far i will lose.
it'll be more interesting if i have catback, and yes, i am planning to get the exact same catback, HKS Hiper.

ytsejam
01-30-2004, 04:07 PM
if we still wanna hang out and shit, i can be there 7-9PM top.

thomas
01-30-2004, 05:08 PM
you guys are forgetting about driver technique. and how well you guys are drivers...damn i wish i could see this.

launching and shifting have some importance. now, question...who is the better driver? haha.

play it safe guys, i dont want to be cruising two evos when the weekends over...

peice.

nebolic
01-30-2004, 05:11 PM
yeah call me, we need to get the test going this weekend

thomas
01-30-2004, 05:20 PM
wont be until sunday, im going to work rite now, and gots work on sat. nite too. well hook up this week fo'sho...

ytsejam
01-30-2004, 06:37 PM
guess what, mr thomas here is getting P2...
probably thomas can run nebolic :)

who talks shit? both of you...now go run ! ;)

nebolic
01-31-2004, 12:58 AM
yo, hehe at least after today, when i talk shit, i gotz something to back me up 1-0 Evo vs Sti

howiEVO8
01-31-2004, 04:51 AM
you guys are forgetting about driver technique. and how well you guys are drivers...damn i wish i could see this.

launching and shifting have some importance. now, question...who is the better driver? haha.

play it safe guys, i dont want to be cruising two evos when the weekends over...

peice.

dont you mean who's the better drag racer? hehe

thomas
02-01-2004, 05:32 PM
yo, hehe at least after today, when i talk shit, i gotz something to back me up 1-0 Evo vs Sti

haha, me too...i remember when i was completely stock, i smoked this other evo...hmmm, wonder who it was :roll:

id give that "kill" to my "skills!" :wink:

ytsejam
02-01-2004, 07:29 PM
yeah both of you have something to back ur shitz up...
Now it comes down to either one of you will get 1 more shit to be included. ;)

nebolic
02-01-2004, 09:47 PM
i'm cool, i think i'll take shivs advice and stay off the streets :-) dont want to be another statistic!. Think the best way to go now is get it timed officially at the drap strip and post it up instead. Better to be safe than sorry.

ytsejam
02-02-2004, 08:37 AM
careful with the drag strip cuz some mitsu reps has been lurking around there...don't want to get a bunch of pics in your mail.... ;)

JanSolo
02-02-2004, 10:00 AM
Just take off your license plate and put a piece of tape over your VIN. ;) And say your name is Big Al.

*stealth mode*

ytsejam
02-02-2004, 02:48 PM
big AL..HA HA HA

i am gonna tell them my name is Yawn Solo

;)

thomas
02-02-2004, 08:04 PM
i'm cool, i think i'll take shivs advice and stay off the streets :-) dont want to be another statistic!. Think the best way to go now is get it timed officially at the drap strip and post it up instead. Better to be safe than sorry.

WTF??? so if another sti comes rolling along, you aint gonna run? what happened to repping the evo, fool!o :twisted:

eh, nebolic...no more civics mang. waste my phucking ga$$$.

nebolic
02-02-2004, 09:30 PM
was deep in my mediation and i realized shit... if i crash my shiznit, i'm fu(ked.... so gotta play it safe as much as i can at least.

ytsejam
02-02-2004, 09:59 PM
y don't u meditate deez nutz...HAHAHAHAHAH
joking foo

JanSolo
02-02-2004, 10:41 PM
big AL..HA HA HA

i am gonna tell them my name is Yawn Solo

;)

Seriously - I almost cried laughing after reading that.

Heartless bastards.

vtluu
02-02-2004, 10:45 PM
WTF??? so if another sti comes rolling along, you aint gonna run? what happened to repping the evo, fool!o :twisted:
The Evo gets plenty of "rep" when it totally dominates both A Stock and E Street Prepared classes at autocross. It gets plenty of "rep" at SCCA rallycross and Pro-Rally, and WRC events. That's the kind of "rep" I want for the Evo.

DB8GSR
02-03-2004, 08:23 AM
WTF??? so if another sti comes rolling along, you aint gonna run? what happened to repping the evo, fool!o :twisted:
The Evo gets plenty of "rep" when it totally dominates both A Stock and E Street Prepared classes at autocross. It gets plenty of "rep" at SCCA rallycross and Pro-Rally, and WRC events. That's the kind of "rep" I want for the Evo.

but... but... what about them ricers!!! :twisted: :lol:

nebolic
02-03-2004, 09:42 AM
My Evo = Powered by Rice!

thomas
02-03-2004, 05:13 PM
WTF??? so if another sti comes rolling along, you aint gonna run? what happened to repping the evo, fool!o :twisted:
The Evo gets plenty of "rep" when it totally dominates both A Stock and E Street Prepared classes at autocross. It gets plenty of "rep" at SCCA rallycross and Pro-Rally, and WRC events. That's the kind of "rep" I want for the Evo.

homeboy, why are you so anal? i was referring back to nebolic on what he was saying about the performance of "our" evos...any evo that smokes a sti gets "props" from me...

have you got any nutts, vtluu? ive been holding my tongue for a long time now after reading your sh!t, "i am a proud tree hugger, i dont think its rite to mod if its illegal, we got enough smog in the US, i dont like rice...yada yada yada..."

dood, to each his own, ill rep my sh!t on the road, you do your sh!t on the track. either way, were both "repping" the evo. you quote all those "accomplishments" of our evo, but you not the one driving. stop trying to narc on people who want to drive the evo ON THE ROAD, like its suppose to be driven.

dont worry, we all play it safe. i dont have another 30 grand to spill on another evo, so you can stop thinking about my wreckless driving. i kno when and where and who it is. im out...

evo_dadi
02-03-2004, 05:20 PM
ok this post has just wondered off too far from the main topic and its gonna be closed before it gets worse.

JanSolo
02-03-2004, 05:21 PM
ok this post has just wondered off too far from the main topic and its gonna be closed before it gets worse.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK. :P :lol:

leif
02-03-2004, 09:07 PM
ok this post has just wondered off too far from the main topic and its gonna be closed before it gets worse.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK. :P :lol:

in after the lock!

JanSolo
02-03-2004, 10:35 PM
ok this post has just wondered off too far from the main topic and its gonna be closed before it gets worse.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK. :P :lol:

in after the lock!

Damnit. Yer good Leif..