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View Full Version : Officer lied in court, what can i do?



sprytsi
08-18-2008, 06:33 PM
Went to court on my 95+ in a 65: used my blinker every lane change and was doing less than 70mph when the police officer paced me.

In court he said he paced me at .4 miles doing 95+ and had to do 120mph to catch me. He also testified that I NEVER used my blinker and made abrupt lane changes. I did not, I compulsively use my blinker and do not make unsafe lane changes unless absolutely necessary (accident avoidance).

He stated that he had his spedometer calibrated so I asked for his receipt and he failed to provide one. The court ruled in his favor, assessed an additional $200 fine, and suspended my license for 30 days. I have no other traffic violations on my record currently.

What can I do? Anyone know a good Attorney? Appeal?

I'm pissed off, the cop was a total jerk when he pulled me over and consistently threatened to put me in jail and tried to force me to give up my right to see him in court.

Referencing this ticket: http://www.norcalevo.net/forum/index.php/topic,28337.0.html

*UPDATE 8/22/08*
I'm going to get the court transcript today and see if there are any errors of law.

I also went down to the DMV to get a restricted license and they did not have it in the system. They gave me a temporary license but if I use it then I'm in violation of the court suspension. I have the numbers to call and will be trying to follow up with them about my suspension. The DMV clerk said she had never seen a judge suspend a license DIRECTLY for speeding, that the DMV is always the suspender in that case based on the point system.

I still believe the judge had no grounds to suspend me, especially since I appeared in court.

Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

dl_EVO
08-18-2008, 08:31 PM
Were you hostile in court? Why would they rule in his favor without a receipt provided?

lqdchkn
08-18-2008, 08:36 PM
I think paceing is not a valid form of speed recording. I'll check around and see where I heard that. I think it was cause an officer can't break the law to catch you breaking the law. If he was pacing you with his lights and siren off then he was not properly breaking the speed limit. *some1 correct me if I'm wrong here* Also did he show proof of speedometer calibration? Just saying it's calibrated isn't proof that it is, there needs to be a calibration certificate.

sprytsi
08-18-2008, 09:43 PM
not hostile in court.

No receipt provided.

Officer admitted doing 120mph to catch me and, to my knowledge, had no sirens on. He did not have them on when he was behind me.

leif
08-18-2008, 10:58 PM
I think paceing is not a valid form of speed recording. I'll check around and see where I heard that. I think it was cause an officer can't break the law to catch you breaking the law. If he was pacing you with his lights and siren off then he was not properly breaking the speed limit. *some1 correct me if I'm wrong here* Also did he show proof of speedometer calibration? Just saying it's calibrated isn't proof that it is, there needs to be a calibration certificate.


a) pacing is valid, cops are allowed to go above the speed limit w/o lights and sirens on to catch people breaking the speed limit
b) if you want to see the records you have to subpoena them, your bad
c) for john...just because you saw him when you were doing 70 (still above the speed limit btw), doesn't mean he didn't see you before

turbotiger
08-19-2008, 12:34 AM
I think paceing is not a valid form of speed recording. I'll check around and see where I heard that. I think it was cause an officer can't break the law to catch you breaking the law. If he was pacing you with his lights and siren off then he was not properly breaking the speed limit. *some1 correct me if I'm wrong here* Also did he show proof of speedometer calibration? Just saying it's calibrated isn't proof that it is, there needs to be a calibration certificate.

You're wrong.

Leif is probably right on point b.

awdaddict
08-19-2008, 08:27 AM
time to lawyer up

chrisw
08-19-2008, 08:33 AM
you should have bought a lawyer in the first place.

but since hindsight is 20/20, get one now and apeal

steevo8
08-19-2008, 08:57 AM
have fun with this.. Going to court on an appeal fucking blows... Its really no fun at all and imo more of a pita then its worth. Sometimes good people get screwed for no reason, just take it in stride and realize karma is a bitch and they will get theirs.

slo10
08-19-2008, 10:24 AM
Get an attorney and fight this, it will bother you pretty much forever. If what you say happened is true, than judges and law enforcement officers like him, have no place in our judicial system, you should fight this and you may win, as long as this is really what happened.

lqdchkn
08-19-2008, 04:34 PM
I think paceing is not a valid form of speed recording. I'll check around and see where I heard that. I think it was cause an officer can't break the law to catch you breaking the law. If he was pacing you with his lights and siren off then he was not properly breaking the speed limit. *some1 correct me if I'm wrong here* Also did he show proof of speedometer calibration? Just saying it's calibrated isn't proof that it is, there needs to be a calibration certificate.

You're wrong.

Leif is probably right on point b.


Yeah I wasn't 100% so I believe him.

Vicious
08-19-2008, 06:29 PM
Before you can appeal your case, you must have one of two things. 1- Grounds for appeal based on the fact that evidence presented in your case was not sufficient to justify the verdict, or 2- there were errors of law either before or during your trial. Neither of these happened here, as the officer's testimony is going to be considered "sufficient", and no violation was committed procedurally by the judge (assumption on my part).

The second thing to consider is that upon appeal, you can not present any new evidence. The appellate court will only reexamine evidence and testimony presented during your first trial. I don't think you will have much luck here, sorry. Also, filing of intent of appeal does not stop the existing orders placed by the judge during the initial trial.

06IXMR
08-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Smart guy....LOL :D

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 08:18 AM
I'm going to get the court transcript today and see if there are any errors of law.

I also went down to the DMV to get a restricted license and they did not have it in the system. They gave me a temporary license but if I use it then I'm in violation of the court suspension. I have the numbers to call and will be trying to follow up with them about my suspension. The DMV clerk said she had never seen a judge suspend a license DIRECTLY for speeding, that the DMV is always the suspender in that case based on the point system.

I still believe the judge had no grounds to suspend me, especially since I appeared in court.

Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

chrisw
08-22-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm going to get the court transcript today and see if there are any errors of law.

I also went down to the DMV to get a restricted license and they did not have it in the system. They gave me a temporary license but if I use it then I'm in violation of the court suspension. I have the numbers to call and will be trying to follow up with them about my suspension. The DMV clerk said she had never seen a judge suspend a license DIRECTLY for speeding, that the DMV is always the suspender in that case based on the point system.
I still believe the judge had no grounds to suspend me, especially since I appeared in court.

Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

ask the lawyer you should hire...

Ben
08-22-2008, 08:35 AM
I'm going to get the court transcript today and see if there are any errors of law.

I also went down to the DMV to get a restricted license and they did not have it in the system. They gave me a temporary license but if I use it then I'm in violation of the court suspension. I have the numbers to call and will be trying to follow up with them about my suspension. The DMV clerk said she had never seen a judge suspend a license DIRECTLY for speeding, that the DMV is always the suspender in that case based on the point system.
I still believe the judge had no grounds to suspend me, especially since I appeared in court.

Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

ask the lawyer you should hire...


There's so many balla's on this site that one of you guys has to be a lawyer.

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 08:37 AM
I'm going to get the court transcript today and see if there are any errors of law.

I also went down to the DMV to get a restricted license and they did not have it in the system. They gave me a temporary license but if I use it then I'm in violation of the court suspension. I have the numbers to call and will be trying to follow up with them about my suspension. The DMV clerk said she had never seen a judge suspend a license DIRECTLY for speeding, that the DMV is always the suspender in that case based on the point system.
I still believe the judge had no grounds to suspend me, especially since I appeared in court.

Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

ask the lawyer you should hire...


Most lawyers work for money... we aren't in a position to hire a lawyer. I have been discussing these things with my legal friends

chrisw
08-22-2008, 08:48 AM
you really need a lawyer. considering your position, lawyers are cheaper in the long run than asking legal advise from friends (unless they are traffic lawyers)

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 08:58 AM
you really need a lawyer. considering your position, lawyers are cheaper in the long run than asking legal advise from friends (unless they are traffic lawyers)


I agree, but I don't have money for a lawyer right now. Thus, I'm trying to do as much research and document collecting as I can on my own but I'm limited with time (work, school, kid, wife, suspended license, etc)

smack
08-22-2008, 09:32 AM
Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

there has always been a law that 25 over a posted limit can be considered a wreckless driving violation worth 2 points(same as an accident) but i've never heard of it being an arrestable offense.

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 09:40 AM
Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

there has always been a law that 25 over a posted limit can be considered a wreckless driving violation worth 2 points(same as an accident) but i've never heard of it being an arrestable offense.


The previous law was double the limit or over 105mph can be charged as felony wreckless driving. I have not been able to find the current law that the judge referenced though.

One of the things that greatly confuses me is that I was not charged with wreckless driving and my ticket was for violating the 65mph speed limit. The judge seemed to suspend my license "for fun" because I faught my ticket and plead "not guilty".

I was under the impression that fighting a ticket would not cause MORE harm.

Ben
08-22-2008, 10:11 AM
Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

there has always been a law that 25 over a posted limit can be considered a wreckless driving violation worth 2 points(same as an accident) but i've never heard of it being an arrestable offense.


The previous law was double the limit or over 105mph can be charged as felony wreckless driving. I have not been able to find the current law that the judge referenced though.

One of the things that greatly confuses me is that I was not charged with wreckless driving and my ticket was for violating the 65mph speed limit. The judge seemed to suspend my license "for fun" because I faught my ticket and plead "not guilty".

I was under the impression that fighting a ticket would not cause MORE harm.


Judge was having a bad day probably. Was your child in the car at the time and did the judge know about it or not?

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 10:26 AM
Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

there has always been a law that 25 over a posted limit can be considered a wreckless driving violation worth 2 points(same as an accident) but i've never heard of it being an arrestable offense.


The previous law was double the limit or over 105mph can be charged as felony wreckless driving. I have not been able to find the current law that the judge referenced though.

One of the things that greatly confuses me is that I was not charged with wreckless driving and my ticket was for violating the 65mph speed limit. The judge seemed to suspend my license "for fun" because I faught my ticket and plead "not guilty".

I was under the impression that fighting a ticket would not cause MORE harm.


Judge was having a bad day probably. Was your child in the car at the time and did the judge know about it or not?


It was not a factor.

As a reference, a person doing 65mph in a 35mph zone and failed to appear (officer was there) got a 30 day suspended license (for his failure to appear) and was found guilty. I appeared and got a suspended license. WTF?

08evoX
08-22-2008, 11:45 AM
there are two lawyers that are very good. Majeed Samara in Burlingame and Scotty Storey in Santa Clara. They both deal with traffic cases, Storey more for motorcycles. http://www.twowheellaw.com/ As for the pacing ticket, the officer has to be behind you at a reasonable distance, using his speed on the speedo to determine yours. If you were paced on a stretch of highway, its hard to beat. But if you were in the twisties or cars were behind you then you have a valid argument that pacing is not accurate to this point. Knowing the CVC codes and using them when you were at court should have been able to beat the ticket. For whatever CVC you were cited for, there are one or two other CVCs to back up your case. Knowing the law and using it to beat tickets is priceless.

chrisw
08-22-2008, 12:23 PM
you really need a lawyer. considering your position, lawyers are cheaper in the long run than asking legal advise from friends (unless they are traffic lawyers)


I agree, but I don't have money for a lawyer right now. Thus, I'm trying to do as much research and document collecting as I can on my own but I'm limited with time (work, school, kid, wife, suspended license, etc)

I understand that, but you can't afford the suspended license and the costs of the future insurance..

stop being stupid and get a lawyer...



there are two lawyers that are very good. Majeed Samara in Burlingame and Scotty Storey in Santa Clara. They both deal with traffic cases, Storey more for motorcycles. http://www.twowheellaw.com/ As for the pacing ticket, the officer has to be behind you at a reasonable distance, using his speed on the speedo to determine yours. If you were paced on a stretch of highway, its hard to beat. But if you were in the twisties or cars were behind you then you have a valid argument that pacing is not accurate to this point. Knowing the CVC codes and using them when you were at court should have been able to beat the ticket. For whatever CVC you were cited for, there are one or two other CVCs to back up your case. Knowing the law and using it to beat tickets is priceless.


+1000000000000000000

player67
08-22-2008, 12:55 PM
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=22001-23000&file=22348-22366

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 01:26 PM
I was sited for "95+" in a 65, not 100, so that law would not apply to me.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=22001-23000&file=22348-22366

22348. (a) Notwithstanding subdivision (b) of Section 22351, a
person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway with a speed limit
established pursuant to Section 22349 or 22356 at a speed greater
than that speed limit.
(b) A person who drives a vehicle upon a <b>highway at a speed
greater than <u>100 miles</u> per hour</b> is guilty of an infraction
punishable, as follows:
(1) Upon a first conviction of a violation of this subdivision, by
a fine of not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500). <b>The court may
also suspend the privilege of the person to operate a motor vehicle
for a period not to exceed 30 days pursuant to Section 13200.5.</b>
(2) Upon a conviction under this subdivision of an offense that
occurred within three years of a prior offense resulting in a
conviction of an offense under this subdivision, by a fine of not to
exceed seven hundred fifty dollars ($750). The person's privilege to
operate a motor vehicle shall be suspended by the Department of
Motor Vehicles pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 13355.
(3) Upon a conviction under this subdivision of an offense that
occurred within five years of two or more prior offenses resulting in
convictions of offenses under this subdivision, by a fine of not to
exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000). The person's privilege to
operate a motor vehicle shall be suspended by the Department of Motor
Vehicles pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 13355.

turbotiger
08-22-2008, 05:09 PM
Not only do you need to know the law, but there are procedures you need to follow. If you don't do it correctly, it'll get thrown out of court. I also strongly suggest you get a lawyer. A lot of times they can do things you'll never think of due to their experience.

awdaddict
08-22-2008, 05:27 PM
get a lawyer.. omg.

Suspended license + insurance ripping a new one wuld cause moe harm than lawyer up

sprytsi
08-22-2008, 05:32 PM
get a lawyer.. omg.

Suspended license + insurance ripping a new one wuld cause moe harm than lawyer up


I put a call in to a lawyer today, but haven't received a call back yet. We'll see what he says and how to go about it.

I just don't have much time to deal with this so we will see how this goes then.

leif
08-23-2008, 06:38 PM
most judges will suspend licenses for 14-30 days for 90+. yes they can do it. by the time you get this all settled your suspension will be over.

Vicious
08-24-2008, 01:01 AM
Most times there are options to impose certain punishments, this may/can include the option to fine and/or suspend a license for a given period of time. In reviewing both of your posts, I do not see anywhere you listed the actual vehicle code you were cited for. Knowing that would be helpful. Second, you did not state if the Court changed or amended your citation, since you contested it, and the officer stated he had to do 120 mph to catch you, the Court has the option of changing your ticket to be for over 100 mph and/or adding a reckless driving enhancement.

As far as your second thought that fighting a case will not lead to more punishment. Well, you are mistaken. Generally, an acceptance of guilt/early plea/ie... paying your ticket will give you the LEAST RESTRICTIVE punishment (ie. fine), in a similar way that accepting an early plea in a criminal case will generally give you a better deal than if you fight the case or delay and then change your plea later. Much of this is simply due to monetary considerations. For example, it saves the taxpayers money, and the Courts time if someone takes an early plea, therefore they are rewarded with a lighter sentence/punishment/fine/fee. For example, a Felony conviction, in general carries a fine of $200-10,000.00. Almost across the board, the fine is levied at $200.00. However, in contested cases, the Judge may impose whatever he deems appropriate, up to $10,000.00. Secondly, as noted above, the Court can change the citation if during the proceedings, it appears a person is guilty of additional or different offenses.

However, ultimately, you have gone beyond the hearing, which is when the lawyer should have been brought in the first case, and have not met either of the standards presented in my previous post:


Before you can appeal your case, you must have one of two things. 1- Grounds for appeal based on the fact that evidence presented in your case was not sufficient to justify the verdict, or 2- there were errors of law either before or during your trial. Neither of these happened here, as the officer's testimony is going to be considered "sufficient", and no violation was committed procedurally by the judge (assumption on my part).

The second thing to consider is that upon appeal, you can not present any new evidence. The appellate court will only reexamine evidence and testimony presented during your first trial. I don't think you will have much luck here, sorry. Also, filing of intent of appeal does not stop the existing orders placed by the judge during the initial trial.

Until either of those conditions are met, you can't even file an appeal. And even then, again, you can not enter any evidence to try to refute your case. At this point, unless you can find procedurally in error, you are probably too late.








Anyone know about this recent law that states if you are going over 20mph (possibly 25mph) above the speed limit they can arrest you and suspend your license? This is what the judge quoted.

there has always been a law that 25 over a posted limit can be considered a wreckless driving violation worth 2 points(same as an accident) but i've never heard of it being an arrestable offense.


The previous law was double the limit or over 105mph can be charged as felony wreckless driving. I have not been able to find the current law that the judge referenced though.

One of the things that greatly confuses me is that I was not charged with wreckless driving and my ticket was for violating the 65mph speed limit. The judge seemed to suspend my license "for fun" because I faught my ticket and plead "not guilty".

I was under the impression that fighting a ticket would not cause MORE harm.

leif
08-24-2008, 03:03 PM
if i were a betting man i'd wager he was cited for 22349(a), wouldn't you?

sprytsi
08-24-2008, 07:16 PM
if i were a betting man i'd wager he was cited for 22349(a), wouldn't you?


I believe that was what I was cited for but I'm not sure, the citation is in my car. It said doing in excess of 65mph.

The court did not amend my charge.

Vicious
08-24-2008, 09:17 PM
Then the Court has the option of suspending a driver's license.

Lurk
08-25-2008, 04:20 PM
Should've hired a lawyer from the get go. ESPECIALLY in a case involving a lying cop.