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View Full Version : Confused with Gruppe-S ... any ideas guys?



jstockdale
02-04-2004, 02:26 PM
Ok, I'm just a little confused here with what Cal's been saying. I PM'd him on EvoM saying I was a little disappointed with the price and service I got from Gruppe-S after talking with him, and then buying from the other guys (since Jan and a few other guys at the meet said Cal would have given the RA radiator shroud to me for more like $125 rather than $135 ... not a huge deal but symbolically it meant something to me especially since I got crappy service from the guys in the office). So he replies on EvoM saying the price I got was fine, and that he couldn't have gone any cheaper nor given me a break on the tax side of things. He doesn't suggest any other Evo parts they have (even tho I implied that I'd like know what else they have).

Then, I come over here today, and read Cal's post on the Cusco strut bar and how "We" (as in the NorCalEvo crew) don't like to pay tax and he can get us the bar for $195 OTD.

So basically I feel like he's (a) not being very generous towards me, (b) straight out lied to me.

Anyone care to comment? At this rate I don't feel any reason to dump more cash at Gruppe-S.

Quotes attached below.

-S ...



Guys,

I have a few sets of these Cusco type OS-T front strut bar for sale! Since none of us like to pay taxes.. so I am offering these OS-T (aluminum) front strut bar at $195 OTD (cash only). IMHO, this strut bar is a very nice replacement for the ugly stock black bar ;) Please give me a call if you are interested! or come by the shop and have a chat!

thanks

Cal
gruppe-s
510-498-8400




Gruppe-S wrote on Feb 3, 2004 02:55 PM:
Hello John,

I am sorry that you had a bad experience w/ us and I apologize for not able to be there and provide the service you need because I was out of country. But I can guarantee you that $135 OTD of that radiator shroud is a fair price for local customers. Simply because the exchange rate and time to get these in from Japan. And please do understand that by law, we must charge tax on local sales.
Again I apologize and if you need anything else in the future, please ask for me directly so I can give you better pricing.

Thanks

Cal
gruppe-s



jstockdale wrote on Feb 3, 2004 10:07 PM:
Hi Cal,

I ended up picking up the radiator shroud for my Evo the other day, and although the piece is very nice, I was disappointed with the service and price.

I talked to several people on the phone and ended up driving to Gruppe-S to save on shipping and time. It took quite a while to get over there due to my hitting rush hour (and some confusion in directions ... mostly on my part), and when I finally got to the shop no one seemed to be expecting me even though I had called 3-4 times during the day (two of the times were within 20 minutes of me arriving to get directions). This was mildly suprising as Gruppe-S was highly recommended.

Once I actually was talking to one of the three guys in the office area at the time, they pulled out the piece and showed me both the red and silver versions. I decided on the silver and asked what the best price (cash) they could do would be. Even though you were quoting $135 shipped on the forums, I ended up driving quite a ways and still paid $135 otd.

Once I actually bought the piece, the guys in the main office area just basically told me to install it by unbolting the radiator and putting it on. I was kind of confused and knew I didn't have the correct size of socket wrench so I went over and talked to the guys working on a white evo. They were the only really helpful people at Gruppe-S, with one of the guys helping me take off the bolts on the radiator, and loaning me a flashlight to find a plastic grommit I dropped while I was installing the piece.

I also tried to inquire about other stuff you guys might have for the Evo, but was not given much of a reply. This was disappointing considering the time I had invested to come visit the shop and pick up the Ralliart piece.

I have come to expect good service from my suppliers, and I must say this has been a disappointment. I would appreciate a response or explanation from you on this matter, as otherwise I will be quite disinclined to do business with Gruppe-S again, or to recommend Gruppe-S to fellow Evo enthusiasts.

Sincerely,

John Stockdale

nebolic
02-04-2004, 02:37 PM
damn jon it suxs that you got that kind of service, but i think it all depends on the individual you deal with over there. I think I was dealing with Cal when i got my HKS exhaust and he hooked me up big time because i arranged for an install but his tech wasnt there so he did the install himself and didnt charge me for the install. I liked dealing with cal, sorry to hear you got unlucky and had to deal with someone else over there. Maybe cal can get you a good deal on something else?

JanSolo
02-04-2004, 02:45 PM
Cal usually is really good about pricing and hooking up the local guys. This might be one of those products that they have very little margin to work with, so therefore cannot give good price breaks on them for the local guys.

Anyhow, there is a very good chance that he can hook you up on the next thing you order (just like Eddy said).

I've never had a bad experience with Gruppe-S myself, but I feel for you about this - no one wants to feel like they did not get a good deal when everyone says they have. Just be happy you're not dealing with Vivid Racing or Carbotech (the absolute two worst vendors to deal with).

blitzkrgCT9A
02-04-2004, 03:04 PM
Jon,

I am sorry that you are still not satisfied w/ our service altho I have tried to explain why $135 OTD is fair for the geniune Ralliart shroud. To break everything down, the actul cost you paid for the shroud is $124.72 + tax which comes up to be $135 OTD. And we also provided you tools and some assistance to install the shroud if I recall correctly altho it is not our obligation to do so.
And as for your evo parts inquiry, You said you "tried" to inquire some parts while you were at the shop but you didn't get a reply. I apologize for that because we were very under-staffed during my absence. And as for your EVO part inquiry, if I knew you were still trying to inquire, I would be more than glad to give you a quote on the parts you need. But it seems to me (in your PM), that you were just stating that you didn't get a reply on your inquiry.

Thanks

Cal
gruppe-s

blitzkrgCT9A
02-04-2004, 03:13 PM
just to clarify one more thing here. When a vendor says "OTD" cash price for the products. local tax has already applied within the OTD price. By law, it is required for all businesses to file taxes on all sales items.

GReddy_917
02-04-2004, 07:37 PM
I have found the guys at Gruppe-S to be very helpful. They answered all my questions and even suggested I wait for the Helix exhaust when I asked about the HKS Hiper....Having seen the Helix on their Evo I decided to wait for that. All in all great service

jstockdale
02-04-2004, 09:28 PM
just to clarify one more thing here. When a vendor says "OTD" cash price for the products. local tax has already applied within the OTD price. By law, it is required for all businesses to file taxes on all sales items.


Since none of us like to pay taxes..


Even though you were quoting $135 shipped on the forums, I ended up driving quite a ways and still paid $135 otd.

I know that by law businesses have to pay tax on in-state sales, I even included tax in the price I PM'd Cal as being what I paid "OTD."

I wasn't asking to not pay tax, I was asking to get a better price because I paid cash (and thus no credit card service fees, etc). JanSolo had indicated that NorCalEvo guys could probably get these things for $125 OTD when I ended up at $135 OTD.

To be honest, I don't really care. I'm not arguing about $10 here. I'm not arguing at all in fact. I'm just saying that given my experience I feel no loyalty towards Gruppe-S and it's iffy whether or not I'll spend more money with them.

(And those of you who know how much I spent with WORKS know that I'm not talking another radiator shroud. I like to think my loyalty is worth something ... and after spending the cash for nearly WORKS entire catalogue, I got such good service and parts and attitude (hell I took my car back a month later and they pulled the wheels off, put anti-squeel compund on the pads to stop some minor squeeling I was having, put everything back together after cleaning the rotors and capilars, and didn't charge me a cent) that I'll definitly get their intake and possibly the turbo kit when it comes out :) ).

The entire reason I contacted Cal (although I may not have been clear enought about this) was to give Gruppe-S a second chance, mainly because alot of the guys here said they were a great company. I was hoping he'd offer that next time I came by to show me some stuff (ie. personal attention), and give me an especially good deal.

-S ...

PS: Thanks for the response everyone.

02BlackWRX
02-05-2004, 12:07 PM
Man, stop whining about it, they don't owe you any loyalty..you bought 1 frickin part from them....

evo_dadi
02-05-2004, 12:16 PM
and you came here just to post this,you're off on a good start. everybody has a right to express their opinion or comment but that doesnt mean you have to talk to him this way. that is why he's still trying to have a good connection with them since gruppe-s has a reputable business and a lot of the guys are giving good remarks about them.

odyss3y
02-05-2004, 12:19 PM
i've always got great prices from gruppe-s as well as good support when i needed it. don't let one bad experience prevent more good experiences...

also a "great" vote for MPJ/GB

edit: wow, i have a lower member # than evo_dadi

evo_dadi
02-05-2004, 12:30 PM
lol cause you beat me to it:) you planning any meets soon?

jstockdale
02-05-2004, 01:39 PM
they don't owe you any loyalty..
Never said they owed me anything. Learn to read. I clearly said that they have no loyalty from me. Contrast this with WORKS who have $7K from me and my loyalty. I would dare to say that my loyalty is worth something. Unless of course your sorry trolling idiotic scrap of a human existance begs to differ.


you bought 1 frickin part from them....
Yep ... that's right, it's called business, and if you want to retain customers good service is paramount. I was trying to give a good company another chance, but unlike you I guess I'm not special enough to use forums that I've been on for some time now. Oh wait, that was your first post ...


and you came here just to post this,you're off on a good start
What he said.

Crawl back under your rock and please don't come back. In fact, just stand under your rock and I'll drop it on you. Then there will be one less troll to turn this place into something like the horrid scrawl that is EvoM these days.

-S ...

evo_dadi
02-05-2004, 01:50 PM
i think he's the very first troll that we have on our turf.

btw john i gotta take a ride on your evo one of these meets hopefully soon :)

odyss3y
02-05-2004, 02:06 PM
lol cause you beat me to it:) you planning any meets soon?there will be an east bay drive eventually. im thinking march/april

BluEvo
02-05-2004, 02:11 PM
i think he's the very first troll that we have on our turf.

btw john i gotta take a ride on your evo one of these meets hopefully soon :)

i gotta tell yah, it is a sweet ride! we rolled with j at the last monday meet. very smooth! love the gfb 50/50 bov. i gotta get one of those.

yo J, ur on the right path man. ur just trying to maintain a good customer/vendor relationship and clear up the confusion in the air. i hear ya bro. let's just stay positive and not worry about negativity that has been brought in.

nebolic
02-05-2004, 02:39 PM
gfb 50/50 bov is that the one from works?? cuz i know works is about to release one but i havent seen a specific kit made for the EVo, i'm interested in getting one, anyone let me know.

JanSolo
02-05-2004, 02:52 PM
Works is basically buying the GFB and reselling it and possibly putting in any parts that are specific to the Evo. Works has them available (or so I've been told) but for some reason it is not listed as available on their web site.

nebolic
02-05-2004, 02:57 PM
nice, i think i'm gonna go pick up a unit, i'm trying to get a hold of them but no ones picking up the phone. 300 bucks is pretty pricey for a BOV but then again if it works good, I'm willing to buy one. anyone wanna write a quick review on this puppie

RonV
02-05-2004, 03:26 PM
nice, i think i'm gonna go pick up a unit, i'm trying to get a hold of them but no ones picking up the phone. 300 bucks is pretty pricey for a BOV but then again if it works good, I'm willing to buy one. anyone wanna write a quick review on this puppie Ed,

Let me know how the BOV works. All of the applications I have been reading about cause a loss in power and drivability. I dig the sound they make though :evil:

Good luck homie!

Unkle Ron

JanSolo
02-05-2004, 03:53 PM
Actually, Stockdale would be the man to talk about the Works/GFB BOV since he has been running it for a while.

nebolic
02-05-2004, 04:03 PM
im gonna PM jstckdale and ask him whats the dealio.

BluEvo
02-05-2004, 05:58 PM
im gonna PM jstckdale and ask him whats the dealio.

his bov is off-the hook! :bow: it gives the benefit of both worlds, and no bogging. its a grip but well worth it if you have the money. i have that gfb in mind when i'm ready to buy another bov.

jstockdale
02-05-2004, 07:02 PM
The GFB unit is tight. WORKS is reselling it, basically they set it to their recommended settings before shipping it out the door. The cool thing is the valve isn't a strict 50/50 unit, but rather full variable from 100/0 to 0/100 (well 16-way variable ... but close enough). At the moment I'm running it somewhere around 60/40 (recirc/vta).

It is a little pricy, but it's been worth it. No problems with drivability whatsoever, the only side effect is a slight bit of backfiring right after it vents.

(FYI WORKS had it at $289 (I think) for their holiday special. I'm not sure what exactly it includes for mounting hardware or whatever ... they installed mine at the shop. The only other place I've seen it "available" is off some 935 motorsports place google came up with ... but the place looks a little shady. It's listed on their BOV page as for sale for $200 (which I would assume is incorrect) and on their GFB BOV page as for sale for $269. Regardless, I'd rather go with WORKS, and get the service, preset settings, and product warranty/support.)

-S ...

JanSolo
02-05-2004, 09:44 PM
If you guys are interested in getting the GFB blow off valve, then check this out. I talked to Mike from GB Motorsports/MPJ Performance and they said that they are authorized GFB retailers, which means that whoever is interested in the bov can get it at the meet and installed for a discount.

I can't wait till my car sounds as cool as Lord Stockdale's. ;)

jstockdale
02-05-2004, 10:19 PM
If you guys are interested in getting the GFB blow off valve, then check this out. I talked to Mike from GB Motorsports/MPJ Performance and they said that they are authorized GFB retailers, which means that whoever is interested in the bov can get it at the meet and installed for a discount.

I can't wait till my car sounds as cool as Lord Stockdale's. ;)

It would probably be worth finding out what kind of Warranty GB Motorsports/MPJ Performance is willing to put together on the GFB Stealth F/X. Otherwise you're going to have to deal with GFB Australia for any problems down the track.

WORKS' standard warranty (3 years, unlimited miles) holds on the GFB valve which for me makes it worth getting from them. (The standard GFB warranty is 1 year if I recall correctly).

-S ...

GReddy_917
02-05-2004, 11:18 PM
You guys these valves have been made in Australia for a while now...there are actually quite a few companies in AU that make Hybrid BOV's....I was preaching about the GFB Hybrid valves years ago to all the GVR4 guys and DSM guys...I would have thought by now it would be common knowledge that this type is the best valve to use with a DSM/Evo. Just goes to show you how many people would rather buy the name instead of the performance.

Im glad you all are considering this valve...Im definitely getting one very soon.

Oh, and dont be too worried about the warrantee with GFB....I seized one of their valves open with dirt/sand when I had my GVR4 after running it for a long time on the car. I sent it to them for inspection and they sent me back a brand new valve less than a week later at no cost to me. Excellent customer service !

02BlackWRX
02-07-2004, 11:55 AM
i think he's the very first troll that we have on our turf.

btw john i gotta take a ride on your evo one of these meets hopefully soon :)

nah you won't see me trolling, I am not a troll, I am a regular on i-club.com and I love EVO's. I am just standing up for a company that I have had nothing but great experiences with.

-Zoeb

evo_dadi
02-07-2004, 09:07 PM
glad to hear that but your response just came in a bad time.i understand that youre standing up for them but that is why he's giving them the benefit of the doubt.and thinking maybe its just that situation that was bad.and i do venture iclub also and have the same name there,and i think i met you before at a vishnu dynoday for the wrx.

MPJ Performance
02-07-2004, 11:38 PM
It would probably be worth finding out what kind of Warranty GB Motorsports/MPJ Performance is willing to put together on the GFB Stealth F/X. Otherwise you're going to have to deal with GFB Australia for any problems down the track.

WORKS' standard warranty (3 years, unlimited miles) holds on the GFB valve which for me makes it worth getting from them. (The standard GFB warranty is 1 year if I recall correctly).

-S ...

We honor the GFB warranty in full and would be happy as a special to Norcalevo members to offer a full 3 year warranty as well.

We are now trying to secure some of the actual GFB Evo 8 units for the meet.

*edit - forgot to add, Cal and co at Gruppe-S are a good bunch I am sure this is just one of those slips that happens from time to time*

Mike

(510) 487-4447
www.mpjperformance.com
www.gb-motorsports.com

nebolic
02-07-2004, 11:58 PM
hey mike and Gb motorsports.

do you guys think you can get some of those GFB bov units for the Evo 8 for the feb 28th meet, if you can, i'll put my name down for one. That would be cool thanks

Nebo

02BlackWRX
02-08-2004, 12:27 AM
glad to hear that but your response just came in a bad time.i understand that youre standing up for them but that is why he's giving them the benefit of the doubt.and thinking maybe its just that situation that was bad.and i do venture iclub also and have the same name there,and i think i met you before at a vishnu dynoday for the wrx.

you probably did, I was there for that one...I was driving a black WRX with a greddy lip and silver 18's

I appologize if I offended anyone, my intention was to stand up for gruppe-s and not get labled as a troll on here.

GokuSSJ4
02-09-2004, 01:34 PM
Calvin is cool and is also willing to give a good price on their products .. They are also willing to match the prices , if its being sold cheaper some place else..

blitzkrgCT9A
02-14-2004, 03:24 AM
Sorry if you guys felt that I didn't hook you guys up on the parts. I will definitely work on that so you guys will be happy next time. Please pm me for future pricing discussions.

Thank you,

Cal
gruppe-s

warpspeed
02-14-2004, 12:10 PM
I am sorry if I will offend some people about this comment. Take it as you may. It seems to me like alot of people like the"hook ups" on parts (who doesn't). First of all you have to build a repoire(excuse my spelling) with the shop and not get a big discount on the first purchase. As you keep going to the shop, you will build up a "friendship" with the shop and then they will give you discounts. If the shop don't know you, how the hell can that shop survive if they keep giving big discounts to anyone that comes in off the street. Like I said, if I offend anyone.....oh well.

vtluu
02-14-2004, 01:07 PM
I believe the word you're looking for with is "rapport". But yeah, I agree. :)

warpspeed
02-14-2004, 03:52 PM
Well..I never said I was good in spelling or sppeling or speling..oh what the hell.....you now what I mean. lol

Evil EV0
03-02-2004, 01:40 AM
Well, I have only bought 1 thing from Gruppe-S and the customer service was pretty good and shipping was extremely fast. I will most likely buy the Helix full turboback exhaust from them (BTW Cal you have PM)

I think nowadays its hard to find a good shop you can trust that will always be there for you "jstockdale" I know you spent alot of money at "WORKS" and hopefully they will always be there to help you out. I have had a bad experience with one local shop that has pretty much soured me forever.. You dropped $7K at "WORKS" try dropping $15K and within 1 month you are no longer on speaking terms..long story but it was pretty bad and I knew those guys for 7+ years.

Well enough rambling. I think Gruppe-S is pretty fair with their prices, everyone deserves a second chance, maybe they might surprise you :D

JanSolo
03-02-2004, 09:44 AM
I think Shawn Glass had the worst time ever with a shop. His Evo apparently would not even run after taking it to RMR and dropping 15k with them.

thomas
03-04-2004, 01:14 AM
shawn glass is pretty popular with dsm guys. i remember i used to be in bay area dsms and his name would always come up.

is RMR, rhys millen?

JanSolo
03-04-2004, 08:48 AM
Yep, RMR = Rhys Millen Racing.

Frissby
06-18-2004, 09:43 AM
The GFB unit is tight. WORKS is reselling it, basically they set it to their recommended settings before shipping it out the door. The cool thing is the valve isn't a strict 50/50 unit, but rather full variable from 100/0 to 0/100 (well 16-way variable ... but close enough). At the moment I'm running it somewhere around 60/40 (recirc/vta).

It is a little pricy, but it's been worth it. No problems with drivability whatsoever, the only side effect is a slight bit of backfiring right after it vents.

(FYI WORKS had it at $289 (I think) for their holiday special. I'm not sure what exactly it includes for mounting hardware or whatever ... they installed mine at the shop. The only other place I've seen it "available" is off some 935 motorsports place google came up with ... but the place looks a little shady. It's listed on their BOV page as for sale for $200 (which I would assume is incorrect) and on their GFB BOV page as for sale for $269. Regardless, I'd rather go with WORKS, and get the service, preset settings, and product warranty/support.)

-S ...

I purchased that GFB F/X BOV kit and a turbo timer from 935 Motorsports in March, and still haven't received anything. The way they bill is via paypal so I'm now out $400 and don't have any parts. I have e-mailed him via his website (Robert Pina) several times and he always side steps me. "I am waiting on the timer", or "I will refund your money"; and nothing. There is no phone number on his website to call him back at so I am pretty much at his mercy. What do you guys think I should do? Do you think my credit card company will take the money back, or can they? That's the last time I buy something from a website with no phone number, this really sucks.

nebolic
06-18-2004, 10:02 AM
yes all you have to do is call your credit card company and tell them you purchased something from a vendor 4 montsh ago, they said they'll deliver it but you still haven't received anything. They'll ask for the payment info etc.. i.e invoice and vendor info and they'll credit you back within 1 day. And you'll fill out a piece of paper (you can just fax all relevant info over too) and they'll make sure they vendor does not debit your account again. Thats a free service provided by credit card company. seriously just get your money back and buy from gruppe-s.

They dont give you no bullshit.

Nebo

Frissby
06-21-2004, 02:08 PM
Tight, Thanks NEBO. I called my cc company and they told me to just write them a letter with all of the specifics and I will get credited back. Honestly I think I am going to get a BOV later, I think Vishnu flash and a downpipe are in order first. Thanks again. Chris.