What the track whores have been waiting for...

[earlyapex]

"Found" these on the RRE site. :twisted: Coming soon. I am already drooling.

2-piece floating design. These are prototypes.

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/PF_2piece_rotors/EVO_rotor002.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/PF_2piece_rotors/EVO_rotor.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/PF_2piece_rotors/closeup.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/PF_2piece_rotors/drill_not.jpg

[jbigelow]

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EvoVIII]

how much they weight?

[vtluu]

:drool: Also, how much do they cost?

[wilson1]

wow, nice

[Absinthe]

can't you already get 2 piece floating rotors for the Evo?

also not to steal from stoptech but those are lateral eye holes aren't eye holes perpendicular with the surface of the rotor superior due to the expansion charateristics of these metal?

[earlyapex]

:drool: Also, how much do they cost?

Approx $300 a side. Not bad considering that I spent $215 each side to replace just the rotor part on my Stoptech BBK.

[earlyapex]

also not to steal from stoptech but those are lateral eye holes aren't eye holes perpendicular with the surface of the rotor superior due to the expansion charateristics of these metal?

Take another look at how the floating part is designed.

[vtluu]

So, the good things about a floating rotor are that (1) you can replace the rotor part separately, (2) it's lighter? (Is cooling better too?)

[earlyapex]

So, the good things about a floating rotor are that (1) you can replace the rotor part separately, (2) it's lighter? (Is cooling better too?)

Pros:

1. Lighter since the hat is aluminum. Less rotating mass.

2. Cooling is better.

3. You can replace the rotor part separately so cheaper in long term.

4. Doesn't "warp" as easily because of the floating design allows thermal expansion.

Cons:

1. Could make some noise because of the floating design. My stoptechs didn't make much noise but it had a different floating design.

2. Higher initial cost.

[GokuSSJ4]

nice !!!
after i'm done with my baer 2 piece set up, I will try this next :cool:

[MitsuMan]

Humm im almost to my second brake pad replace looks like its the time too upgrade plus last time i did them i just slapped pads and the rotors have a nice lip now
when will they be available???

[Absinthe]

also not to steal from stoptech but those are lateral eye holes aren't eye holes perpendicular with the surface of the rotor superior due to the expansion charateristics of these metal?

Take another look at how the floating part is designed.

I did it looked like the holes were oval shape with a longer horizontal axis than vertical am I just seeing this wrong?

[vtluu]

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/PF_2piece_rotors/closeup.jpg

I think you can see the rotor isn't directly bolted to the center hub, and the joints leave room for the rotor to expand inwards.

[earlyapex]

Well, it looks like I will be testing a set of these out for RRE.

If any of you are coming to the GGLC track event on March 30th, feel free to come over and say hi and ask questions.

[methods4]

Well, it looks like I will be testing a set of these out for RRE.

If any of you are coming to the GGLC track event on March 30th, feel free to come over and say hi and ask questions.

I will make sure I will be free to come over and punch you in the stomach.

[earlyapex]

I will make sure I will be free to come over and punch you in the stomach.

Tony, I need to test out the backseat in my evo so come on over in-between sessions and we can have our own "session"

TIA!

[methods4]

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/greddy2.gif

[evo_dadi]

lol tmi!!tmi!! :shock:

[earlyapex]

I installed these rotors with PF "95.7" pads yesterday. Initial performance is pretty good. Bed them in well, the pads seemed to bed in faster than the Carbotechs I used to use

The rotors make alot more noise than my 2-piece floating Stoptech BBK rotors I had on my wrx. The noise is quite different than just friction noise. There is a noticable and audible "ziiiiinnnnnggg" of the rotors from higher speed (+40mph) stopping with medium to hard pressure. It's hard to describe but actually kind of a cool noise. 8)

I'll have some photos and track feedback (the real reason I wanted to try them) after the 30th.

[earlyapex]

Ok, as promised, here is my review of:

RRE / Performance Friction 2-piece floating rotors
RRE / Performance Friction brake pads "95.7" compound

The car:
2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR

Current mods:
RRE Manual Boost Controller @ 1.3/1.4 bar
Espelier 2.75" Downpipe
Test Pipe
Vishnu signature series cat-back
Motul 600c Brake Fluid

I wanted to test out these rotors and pads since one of my track buddies had basically gone through 3 sets of rotors because of heat related issues at the track. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't have to deal with this same issue when I got my Evo. Coming from a open-track prepped 04 WRX sedan with the Stoptech BBK and Carbotech Panther Plus pads you can understand my need for outstanding brakes when switching to the Evo.

I worked with Ty of RRE and he was nothing but helpful in suggesting I try this system out and see what I thought.

Right out of the box these things are beauties. The floating design is quite a different design than my Stoptechs where. Instead of using a floating pin and bolt system like the Stoptechs did, the PF rotors used a "bridged" approach to the floating design. Essentialy the outer rotor ring isn't actually bolted down to the inner aluminum hat at all, but "floats" in a bridge system that has anti-rattle and movement "springs". By just looking at the design I figured they could make more noise than the Stoptech system did.

The shipping label on the box if I recall correctly, was 38lbs. Included in that weight was a set of stainless steel brake lines and a bottle of Motul 600c. I'm not sure what the pair of stock 1-peice rotors weigh but from holding the stock rotor in my hands and the PF rotor in my hands, there is quite an obvious reduction in weight.

Install was straightforward. This is a true "take your old rotors off, bolt the new PF rotors on". Same with the PF pads of course.

After install I went to bed in the new brakes. I did approx 8 70mph to 10mph braking events. While I was doing this, the rotors made a pretty loud whirl noise on hard braking. In retrospect I contribute this to the plating and bedding in process. After they where bed in they where not loud at all. This is not to say this system is as quiet as the stock system. This is a setup that is more slated to track use than street use and you have to understand that any setup that works worth a damn will make SOME noise.

I was coming from Carbotech Panther plus pads that basically squeeled like a freaking stuck pig every time you got on the brakes. Very annoying even for a track junkie like me while running them on the street but I figured that was the trade off for having the hand of god stop your car.

At first, this setup did make some squeeling noises, but much more faint than the carbotechs and stoptech BBK. The other noise this system makes is a very faint "whirling" sound when you drive next to things that bounce the sound back to you like highway dividers, walls ,etc. It's not loud but its a different sound than you hear stock. I think this is from the combo of dimples and floating system. It isn't annoying to me or loud at all but it's there.

Ok, this is getting long so lets just get to the real meat, how the hell these things perform on track.

I took the Evo to a track event at Thunderhill on 3/30/05. I drove seven 30min sessions where the only cool down lap I took in each session was the last lap. I logged slightly over 200 on-track miles. I purposely beat the crap out of this system by being on the brakes longer than I usually am to build more heat. On the front straight I would reach speeds of approx 125mph before having to get on the brakes very hard. Thunderhill is not kind on brakes at all and it will show weak spots of any cars braking system.

This system performed on par with the Stoptech BBK system I had on my WRX. I basically did not have to worry about my brakes what so ever at this event. The PF pads have great modulation and great progression, which means I could easily trail brake without any on/off engagement that some pads have. They did not fade at any point during the day.

At one point in the day I had to deal with a pesky orange bondurant-prepped Mustang that would not let me pass for a whole lap even though I was glued to his bumper, so I had to take drastic measures and out-brake him at the end of the front straight. No problems what so ever and no pucker moment.

The pads dust less than my Carbotechs did, they have the same performance as them and they are MUCH quieter. In fact, the whole system is MUCH more quiet AFTER the track event. I might not have bed them in 100% before or something but they are quieter. No squeels, some slight whine under light braking but only sometimes and not annoying at all.

Now, some concerns I do have after this event is that the rotors did get grooved much more after one event than my stoptechs ever did, even after I put the stoptechs through approx 6 events. I also noticed a tiny bit of chunking on the outer edge of the PF pads as well. Perhaps I just got these things too hot from purposely over braking, but again they never faded at all.

I will give more feedback after the next couple events I do. My next event is at buttonwillow on the 25th of April. I really want to get a couple events done with this system to give a 100% complete review.

Overall, for the price, I think this is a great system espically when compared to the price / performance ratio of bigger full-brake system upgrades. They WILL MAKE MORE NOISE than the stock Evo setup. If you are a person who TRUELY needs this type of system than the small amounts of extra noise they add to the car will not annoy you espically for the added performance you get in return.

For Evo owners who see one or two track events a year and drives mostly on the street, I would probably recommend just a pad and fluid upgrade. For track junkies like me on a budget, I would recommend this system so far.

Feel free to email me with any questions you might have. Photos are coming soon!

[wilson1]

Thanks for the info, Bryan!

[Unowned]

i'm not really sure you can make a great comparison saying it's "on par" with the Stoptechs you had on another vehicle. I have Stoptechs on my Eclipse right now and i do know it's more powerful than the Brembos on the Evo but i can't compare it till i throw down the stoptechs for the Evo as they are engineered completely different for the Evo than my Eclipse (and they have 4 a 4 corner package).

[earlyapex]

i'm not really sure you can make a great comparison saying it's "on par" with the Stoptechs you had on another vehicle. I have Stoptechs on my Eclipse right now and i do know it's more powerful than the Brembos on the Evo but i can't compare it till i throw down the stoptechs for the Evo as they are engineered completely different for the Evo than my Eclipse (and they have 4 a 4 corner package).

Actually what I said is the performance is on par *so far*. I said nothing about the differences between pedal feel or caliper stiffness between the systems. That is where the Stoptech BBK system truely shines because of their caliper and bridge design. I also said nothing about pad size and cost between the two system, which again, is where the Stoptech BBK system shines.

The differences between Stoptech BBK systems on different cars are piston sizes and rotor sizes.


Yes, the stoptech system is better than the brembo system on the EVOs. I was not saying it wasn't. I do truely believe in my testing *so far* that this PF system is about 80% to 90% there and for much less cost.

I would be mad to say I would take this system over a Stoptech BBK system. Stoptech is a great company and makes an INSANELY great system for the price. But for $750, the PF system is a GREAT bargain and 80% to 90% of the performance of a $1900 Stoptech BBK system.

I still think that the big problem with the Evo's brembo system is the pad size. It's MUCH smaller than the Stoptech porsche type pad size. I can tell already with the pad chunking and the extreme heat that the brembo system creates. I think in the end that will be the achilles heel of the brembo system.

I think eventually I will go to a Stoptech system on the Evo, but for now I just wanted to test out options for the Evo, plus it gives other uses good information.

All this might change once I get a couple more track events on this system, but for now, that is my feedback.

[dohcvtec]

great post! Is there any concern with the allen screws backing out? I know on my old wilwood kit I had on my previous honda there were holes in the allen screws to allow you to saftywire the bolts in place connecting the rotor to the hat, does this setup have this too? Or do you think it is a non issue?

[earlyapex]

great post! Is there any concern with the allen screws backing out? I know on my old wilwood kit I had on my previous honda there were holes in the allen screws to allow you to saftywire the bolts in place connecting the rotor to the hat, does this setup have this too? Or do you think it is a non issue?

I never had a problem with that on my Stoptech BBK so I don't see it as an issue, of course, checking the bolts when you check over the car every few months wouldn't hurt. Espically after track events.

[hagakure]

I would agree about the pad size. I got chunking as well. If money was no object, I'd go for the stoptechs now. They are definitely on the list for next year.


Percy

[Unowned]

I would agree about the pad size. I got chunking as well. If money was no object, I'd go for the stoptechs now. They are definitely on the list for next year.


Percy

i also need to talk to John M about this but for Stoptechs... "to 4 corner it, or not"?

[earlyapex]

I would agree about the pad size. I got chunking as well. If money was no object, I'd go for the stoptechs now. They are definitely on the list for next year.


Percy

i also need to talk to John M about this but for Stoptechs... "to 4 corner it, or not"?

I didn't 4 corner it on my WRX, just used more aggressive pads in the rear. I think since the front does so much of the braking, the rear isn't really a huge factor.

[EVO GRIM]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

[earlyapex]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

Sure anything can be done with enough $$$$$ but why would you even need or want to do that?

has anyone had problems with rear braking power here?

[vtluu]

has anyone had problems with rear braking power here?
Maybe he wants to drive Laguna Seca... in reverse gear? :lol:

[Unowned]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

i don't think your master cylinder will like pushing upgraded front calipers and rear calipers that were your fronts. i'm pretty sure you'd lose power in your braking system.

[Evo442]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

I've heard that this can be done. Not sure how useful it really is tho. If I recall correctly, it was Sam at Hellboyzracing that told me about it. If you're really interested in it, give him a call, they have a website. He seems like a pretty cool guy.

[hagakure]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

Sure anything can be done with enough $$$$$ but why would you even need or want to do that?

has anyone had problems with rear braking power here?


Rear braking on these cars is not an issue. Check your rear pad wear for instance. They last5 times as long on the track as front pads do.

Percy

[GokuSSJ4]

This is a noob question but can you modify the front stock calipers to go on the back? And just upgrade the front?

Sure anything can be done with enough $$$$$ but why would you even need or want to do that?

has anyone had problems with rear braking power here?


Rear braking on these cars is not an issue. Check your rear pad wear for instance. They last5 times as long on the track as front pads do.

Percy
why go to the trouble of modifying your stock front calipers when they have upgrade kits available ?
or you can also upgrade your front calipers with stoptech to take more abuse then stock calipers at the track.

[earlyapex]

why go to the trouble of modifying your stock front calipers when they have upgrade kits available ?
or you can also upgrade your front calipers with stoptech to take more abuse then stock calipers at the track.

I am a little confused on what you are trying to say. You mean why go to the trouble of upgrading the front rotors when there are BBK kits avail?

[EVO GRIM]

What I was asking was to modify the front stock brembos to replace the rear stock brembos and put a stoptec kit in the front. So you would be upgrading the front and rear brakes with only buying a front kit.

[vtluu]

As others have already said, the rear brakes don't do a whole lot of work compared to the fronts--when you're braking, weight shifts to the front of the car so almost all the grip is in the front. Putting on bigger rear brakes won't accomplish much except lock up the rear wheels more easily--unless you modify the brake system to allow you to adjust front-rear brake bias--and we all know what happens when the rear wheels lose grip ;). Putting massive rear brakes on might also require upgrading the master cylinder to support the extra effort needed to actuate the bigger rear brakes. Long story short, if you really did want to upgrade the rear brakes, upgrading to slightly bigger aftermarket ones might actually be less expensive when all is said and done; definitely less problematic, that's for sure.

[GokuSSJ4]

As others have already said, the rear brakes don't do a whole lot of work compared to the fronts--when you're braking, weight shifts to the front of the car so almost all the grip is in the front. Putting on bigger rear brakes won't accomplish much except lock up the rear wheels more easily--unless you modify the brake system to allow you to adjust front-rear brake bias--and we all know what happens when the rear wheels lose grip ;). Putting massive rear brakes on might also require upgrading the master cylinder to support the extra effort needed to actuate the bigger rear brakes. Long story short, if you really did want to upgrade the rear brakes, upgrading to slightly bigger aftermarket ones might actually be less expensive when all is said and done; definitely less problematic, that's for sure.

Tam said it best :cool:

[bdking57]

putting those huge calipers in the back would also throw off the braking balance of the car would it not? Personally i would think if your going to be upgrading the braking system you want to keep the current balance and just and proportional increase the power of the front and rears.

These rotors look hot.. i think im going to pick a pair up. Are they available yet?

[wilson1]

putting those huge calipers in the back would also throw off the braking balance of the car would it not? Personally i would think if your going to be upgrading the braking system you want to keep the current balance and just and proportional increase the power of the front and rears.

These rotors look hot.. i think im going to pick a pair up. Are they available yet?

yes, from rob at myevostore

[bdking57]

any discount for us? Id just assume purchase out of state for less $$$ if not.

[earlyapex]

Hey guys since I am using this thread for my reviews of this system could you keep the lame "lets upgrade our rear calipers to huge sizes even though I don't know why I would ever need to" posts to another thread?

Review update:

I am awaiting on some word from PF because they seemed to have a "curious" amount of wear after only one track event.

[Absinthe]

can you place pictures of the rotors as they are now on the car.

[bdking57]

uh oh... "curious" wear? :? Im just wondering how much of a beating did you place on these rotors. Im mainly after them for some spirited backroads driving and im looking to start autoxing. maybe if you could provide opinions on the usefullness of these for different levels of enthusiast.

[earlyapex]

Yes, a "curious" amount of wear:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/pf_rotors/04_08_05/pf_rotors_06.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/pf_rotors/04_08_05/pf_rotors_03.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/pf_rotors/04_08_05/pf_rotors_02.jpg

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/pf_rotors/04_08_05/pf_rotors_04.jpg

We have sent Performance Friction these photos and are waiting for them to respond. I'll let you all know what they say.

[bdking57]

great pictures.. wow.. that appears to be some "curious" wear alright. Do you think this is from weakness of the rotors or are the pads to harsh? What other type of pad would be less abrassive on these rotors you think.. hawks?

[earlyapex]

great pictures.. wow.. that appears to be some "curious" wear alright. Do you think this is from weakness of the rotors or are the pads to harsh? What other type of pad would be less abrassive on these rotors you think.. hawks?

I really don't want to give my opinion on what is going on until I hear from Performance Friction.

I think for spirited driving and some autox, the Hawk HPS would be a great pad, no noise and rotor friendly, good bite too. I have a set on my Neon beater.

Autox doesn't even come close to the type of brake abuse open track events do.

[Unowned]

Lol that first picture shows the rotor cracking all over the place. From the "curious" driving you seem to be doing you really need to get a set of Stoptechs. Those rotors alone can't handle what you are throwing at them. can post up pictures of the rotors i just removed off the Eclipse 2 weeks ago. Still Flat just worn so far the Slots are gone :lol:

[earlyapex]

Lol that first picture shows the rotor cracking all over the place. From the "curious" driving you seem to be doing you really need to get a set of Stoptechs. Those rotors alone can't handle what you are throwing at them. can post up pictures of the rotors i just removed off the Eclipse 2 weeks ago. Still Flat just worn so far the Slots are gone :lol:

Yup, the Stoptechs on my WRX never looked like this even after 6+ events.

My friends EVO who tracked with me the same day using the same pads but powerslut 1-piece rotors didn't have this much wear and we are both doing about the same lap times and are just as hard on the brakes.

That's why I said these rotors show "curious" wear for one track event.

[evo_dadi]

uh oh... "curious" wear? :? Im just wondering how much of a beating did you place on these rotors. Im mainly after them for some spirited backroads driving and im looking to start autoxing. maybe if you could provide opinions on the usefullness of these for different levels of enthusiast.
cmon b youre fine with the stock rotors ;) al you need are better pads/fluids/brake line for autox or weekend driving :wink: :P

[hagakure]

Those rotors should not be cracking like that. Bryan is a fast and efficient driver, no doubt !:)

But there were a few sessions where he and I were probably 1 second per lap apart, I was braking very very hard on the stock rotors with some "secret" race pads I have been testing for raceshopper.com, and my rotors are fine....I burned up the pads in two events, but the rotors are fine. No two-piece rotor should do this. In defense of Performance Friction, these could be abberant rotors, meaning this particular set....But as Bryan said, it will be good to hear what they have to say.


Percy

[Evo442]

Any word from performance friction?

[earlyapex]

Any word from performance friction?

Yup.

They said this is normal for them with the aggressive pad I am running. Makes sense I guess.

They worked great yet again at buttonwillow on monday. never faded, surface cracks didnt get any larger. The rotors just look like crap, which means I am actually driving the car I guess. :)

[Evo442]

"Normal"? Hmmm...

Thanks for the update.

[earlyapex]

btw Tonys (methods4) 1-piece powerslot rotors look much worse than mine now, he using the same pads.

Which probably means the floating rotors are shedding off more heat which is good.

[leif]

cracks are normal? i don't know how i feel about that..lol.

[dohcvtec]

The cracking looks like only surface cracking which you really shouldn't be worried about. My honda just uses $20 autozone rotors and they survive track abuse (much lighter car I know), but mine have small surface cracks like that too, plus they look like a record. They're doing just fine on a Carbotech race compound.
Which pads were you using again? They must be quite aggresive? :)

[earlyapex]

cracks are normal? i don't know how i feel about that..lol.

Surface cracks are normal when you are driving it like you stole it.

:twisted:

[earlyapex]

Which pads were you using again? They must be quite aggresive? :)

I used Carbotech Panther Plus on my wrx.

Using PF 95.7 pads on the evo.

[dohcvtec]

Which pads were you using again? They must be quite aggresive? :)

I used Carbotech Panther Plus on my wrx.

Using PF 95.7 pads on the evo.
How did the Panther Plus hold up for track use? I'm using the Carbotech XP9? Something like that on the honda, and they're just, eh...

[earlyapex]

How did the Panther Plus hold up for track use? I'm using the Carbotech XP9? Something like that on the honda, and they're just, eh...

They worked fine with my stoptechs. They are just noisey as all hell and dusted like a son-of-a-bitch.

both Tony (methods4) and I used them. Now we both use the PF's and I love em. WAY less dust and WAY less noise. Mine hardly make any noise at all but Tony's seem to be a little bit more talkative.

We are brake pad butties.

[methods4]

They worked fine with my stoptechs. They are just noisey as all hell and dusted like a son-of-a-bitch.

both Tony (methods4) and I used them. Now we both use the PF's and I love em. WAY less dust and WAY less noise. Mine hardly make any noise at all but Tony's seem to be a little bit more talkative.

We are brake pad butties.

I've also used DS2500s.

PF > Carbotex0r Panther Plus > DS2500 for track minded folks.

I wouldn't use the PFs with something like a Powerslot rotor though. Pics to follow soon. I am not very happy with Powerslut right now.

[trinydex]

when you get to change pads you might wanna try the pf97..... robi runs them on his stop techs and supposedly they're amazing for rotor wear and somehow outperform the intermediate 95.7 pads... it confuses me... cuz the numbers are so whacky on them... but that's the lowdown :\

[hagakure]

I"m running the PF's as well...fantastic pads. Really happy with them!

Percy

[earlyapex]

Yea I might move up to PF's more aggressive pad for the track. I think I am getting the 95.7's too hot since they have a nice habit of crumbling on my car.

:?

[hagakure]

The 95.7's stop very well but do generate a lot of heat. My rotors are starting to turn black after the last event....I think one of the next mods I need to do is some cooling ducts.


Percy

[earlyapex]

The 95.7's stop very well but do generate a lot of heat. My rotors are starting to turn black after the last event....

You mean your calipers right?

[hagakure]

Correct:)......

Brain Fart.

My rotors have developed those really tiny surface cracks that you git on your PF's though. Don't seem to be spreading, so I'll do Reno on them friday, then change them out before T-hill in July.

Percy

[trinydex]

another thing i'm a bit perplexed about is a local had a rough experience with rotor wear on the pf97... so you really gotta get them hot for them not to eat your stuff... cuz he ran them daily, big mistake.

thing is i don't understand why pfs rotors are grooving that much... it surely is curious.

[earlyapex]

another thing i'm a bit perplexed about is a local had a rough experience with rotor wear on the pf97... so you really gotta get them hot for them not to eat your stuff... cuz he ran them daily, big mistake.

thing is i don't understand why pfs rotors are grooving that much... it surely is curious.

Aren't the PF97 a race pad? I wouldn't run those on the street either, cold they will eat rotors, like he found out.

I took a long hard look at my rotors and notice that the grooving is happening in the exact same locations as the dimples. So my theory is when I get them uber hot on track, the pads are picking up deposits from inside the dimples and dragging them across the surface.

[trinydex]

that sounds very likely... and of course sounds really bad... slots are best.