Hmm, bad gas?

[vtluu]

When I went to pass someone on the freeway this morning, going WOT in 4th gear, I felt a bit of shuddering/lurching as the car pulled, kinda like what I'd expect a misfire to feel like. Subsequent experimentation with WOT in 3rd and 4th gears was able to repeat this problem. No CEL. This first thing I did after I got to work was check the Magnecor sparkplug wires, and as far as I can tell they're both fully seated, haven't moved a bit since I installed them (and I haven't had this problem all last this week).

The only other possibility that comes to mind was that I got gas at some cheap no-name station in Newark yesterday (I needed gas and it was 2.43 a gallon). Might that be the problem? I might go and top up with 100 octane to see if that helps...

[SJCoruja]

Hey Tam! Try the gas also, but that sounds exactly like what mine did so if it happens again you might want to re-install the wires or try the stockers just to check. Good luck!

[vtluu]

Seems to be running better after I topped up with 4.5 gallons of VP Racing 100 (from the 76 station in Redwood City). I guess I'll know for sure after this tank is almost fully used up and I refill with decent gas again.

[jaytan]

hey tam . thx for install the Magnecor sparkplug wires for me at the meet . thank you

[MarkSAE]

I'd try slapping the stock wires back on to see if the problem goes away. I'm kinda wary about these magnecors. Their fitment didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[twEeker]

I installed mine the same day tam, and sjcoruja installed theirs. I even took the evo to the track last week, and so far, no problems here. I even popped off the spark plug cover again the day after sjcoruja's post, and they were on there so snugg, that there was no need for me to redo it. Just me though. Good luck either way. Just my experience with them so far.

[vtluu]

I was still having occasional misfires at WOT. On Sunday I opened it up. I re-torqued the sparkplugs (some of you may recall I installed new plugs at the same time as the plug wires) with a proper torque wrench. (When I first installed them, I just compressed the crush gasket 2/3 of a turn (as suggested on the packaging), but this time I used the torque spec from the service manual. Found that the spark plug would actually turn another 1/4 turn or so before reaching the specified torque. I found a couple of the the sparkplug connectors smelled faintly of fuel so it's possible there was a bit of leakage.

The Magnecor wires still looked well-seated but I removed, inspected and reinstalled them anyway, using a variant of the "screwdriver" trick: I used the little plastic nozzle pipe from an air duster can instead of a screwdriver to make sure air couldn't get trapped in there. I secured the plug wires with tight zip ties around the connector boot to make sure they wouldn't slide off.

I've done over a half-dozen 4th-gear "test pulls" so far, and no more misfires. Was it the sparkplugs, or the plug wires? Guess I'll never know...

[chrisw]

I'd try slapping the stock wires back on to see if the problem goes away. I'm kinda wary about these magnecors. Their fitment didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

I have been having the same issues. I had all the same symptoms as tam described, but I also got the CEL.

After I got a reflash, I still had the problem.

So I did more research, re-gapped my plugs to 0.025, still stumbled...

ripped the magnacore wires out, and the stumbling went away.

IMHO, I think the magnacore wires are too effiecent for the ignition setup that we have.

When plug #1 is firing, #3 also recieves a spark, but on the exhaust stroke. With the stock wires, the weaker spark won't cause a problem. But with the more efficient magnacore wires, we might be getting some post ignition burn in the exhaust gases that is causing the stumbling. (that's my wild ass guess anyway)

This is not the first time I have run into this problem. Way back when I had a 1990 Jeep wrangler. that was the last year they sold the jeep with the 4.2 liter non-fuel injected motor. I dropped an electromotive aftermarket fuel injection kit (ECU, plus throttlebody). Anyhow, I had some high performance plugs in the jeep that I was forced to remove due to the problem I discribed.

So with that, does anyone want a set of barely used magnacore wires? (PM if interested)

[Whooopasss]

quick question, what spark plug are you guys using?

[chrisw]

quick question, what spark plug are you guys using?

I am still using the stock plugs.

[Whooopasss]

quick question, what spark plug are you guys using?

I am still using the stock plugs.

hmmmmmmm and you tam?

[vtluu]

NGK Iridium IX - BPR7EIX. Their web page says they come gapped at 0.032 but using my gap tool, I measured somewhere around 0.028.

[Whooopasss]

hmmm I was going for the colder plugs but since tam is using a 1 step colder plugs, then it might be the wires.. some months back on evom, they had issues with the magnacore wires..

[chrisw]

hmmm I was going for the colder plugs but since tam is using a 1 step colder plugs, then it might be the wires.. some months back on evom, they had issues with the magnacore wires..

I had fitment issues with the magnacore wires which I fixed, but I still had the misfire.

[Whooopasss]

hmmm I was going for the colder plugs but since tam is using a 1 step colder plugs, then it might be the wires.. some months back on evom, they had issues with the magnacore wires..

I had fitment issues with the magnacore wires which I fixed, but I still had the misfire.

could be predetonation..

[chrisw]

hmmm I was going for the colder plugs but since tam is using a 1 step colder plugs, then it might be the wires.. some months back on evom, they had issues with the magnacore wires..

I had fitment issues with the magnacore wires which I fixed, but I still had the misfire.

could be predetonation..

That's what I thought too. But when I put the stock wires back in, it sputtered once (right after I put the stock wires back on), and has not done it since.

[warpspeed]

That weird about these Magnecor wires. My guess is get your multimeter out (if you have one) and check the continuity of the wires. They might not be terminated right from the factory. Oh ya, there is no such thing as "too efficient wires" :wink: . My experience with Magnecor was when I had them in my '89 civic. I had a Crane multi-spark ignition box and after a few thousand miles, one wire was toasted. After that I used MSD wires and no problem since.

[Whooopasss]

hmmm I was going for the colder plugs but since tam is using a 1 step colder plugs, then it might be the wires.. some months back on evom, they had issues with the magnacore wires..

I had fitment issues with the magnacore wires which I fixed, but I still had the misfire.

could be predetonation..

That's what I thought too. But when I put the stock wires back in, it sputtered once (right after I put the stock wires back on), and has not done it since.


I mean preignition.. LOL

[vtluu]

That weird about these Magnecor wires. My guess is get your multimeter out (if you have one) and check the continuity of the wires. They might not be terminated right from the factory. Oh ya, there is no such thing as "too efficient wires" :wink: . My experience with Magnecor was when I had them in my '89 civic. I had a Crane multi-spark ignition box and after a few thousand miles, one wire was toasted. After that I used MSD wires and no problem since.
I'm not sure what you mean by "terminated". The only problems I could see would be either a break in the wire (seems extremely unlikely) or the connector at one end or the other not contacting the wire securely (i.e. loose). I suppose the second condition is possible, but for it to be that widespread would indicate some fundamental problem either in manufacturing or in design...

From another thread:


I measured the resistance of the stock wires; mine read 2.7 (short wire) and 5.7 (long wire) kOhms. The Magnecor wires read 0.9 and 2.2 kOhms, respectively. The service manual (page 16-34) says to replace the wires if the resistance is greater than 19 kOhms, so both sets are still well within spec (my stock wires have about 28k miles on them).
Time for a little bit of armchair physics... note that electricity and magnetism was my weakest point in high-school physics, so take what I say with a grain of salt. ;) But consider how a sparkplug works: basically it's a gap in a circuit and when enough voltage is applied, the resistance of the air (and fuel) in that gap is overcome and electricity arcs across the gap, resulting in a spark, resulting in heat which ignites the fuel-air mixture. Now, resistance results in a drop in voltage (according to Ohm's law) and is additive, so the greater the resistance of anything in the circuit (comprised of the sparkplug, plug wires, ignition coils), the more of a voltage drop, the less voltage difference across the gap.

At low enough a voltage, there won't be enough electrical potential (a fancy term for "voltage") to overcome the resistance across the gap, and you won't get a spark. Does the "strength" of the spark vary with voltage? Intuitively I'd say "yes" but it's not that simple (and that's where I near the edge of my high school physics knowledge). For example, when you get out of a car and it "shocks" you, the voltage involved may be as high as 20000 volts--but it doesn't kill you because the electrical current itself is very low. And by "strength" of the spark we mean how much heat does it generate--heat required to ignite the fuel mixture.

At some voltage level between "clearly not enough" and "clearly enough" you'll get intermittent sparking, because the exact resistance across the gap and/or (more liklely) the exact amount of voltage applied may vary slightly.

From HowStuffWorks: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system2.htm


The spark plug is quite simple in theory: It forces electricity to arc across a gap, just like a bolt of lightning. The electricity must be at a very high voltage in order to travel across the gap and create a good spark. Voltage at the spark plug can be anywhere from 40,000 to 100,000 volts.
So the question is, "How does a more conductive/less resistive plug wire hurt or help?" Does it result in a stronger spark that results in ignition occuring sooner--maybe resulting in more complete combustion, resulting in more power; maybe resulting in the misfire condition ("pre-ignition") that chrisw describes? Or does it really not make any difference at all, other than ensuring there is always "enough" voltage for ignition to occur?

[warpspeed]

"terminated" is what some of us use to call it back in the days. What I should have said is crimped to be more the norm. It's true there may be a batch that came off the line that wasn't up to specs. It does happen. So maybe that's why alot of people are having problems with these wires. I'm just waiting for MSD to come out with their wires for our Evos. Ever since my muscle day era, I never had problems with them, even running high output ignition boxes.

[EVO GRIM]

Maybe the spark is too hot? Maybe try a colder plug?

[Whooopasss]

Tam is running 1 step colder plugs already.

[vtluu]

So... Drove the car about 1200 miles (to AZ and back) last weekend and noticed the engine was definitely still misfiring at WOT+full boost. Last night I put the OEM plug wires back in--the only thing now different from stock are the sparkplugs. Haven't noticed any more misfiring in the testing I've done since but I'll refrain from jumping to conclusions this time.

If it's something to do with the Magnecor wires, I'd bet it's actually the sparkplug connectors. They seem fairly loose--the rubber "hat" on them doesn't fit flush with the top of the spark plug holes like the stock ones do. I can't really think of how I could make them fit better, but if I do, I'll try it and see if it makes a difference.

[vtluu]

Interesting technical bulletin from Magnecor's website: http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/techbulletins/tech_mrbishi1.htm


Magnecor

Technical Bulletin 069801, dated 06/98

Dodge Colt Turbo
Eagle Talon, 2000GTX
Hyundai Sonata, Elantra, Lantra
Mitsubishi Colt, Eclipse, Galant, Lancer, Mirage etc.
Plymouth Laser

... and many other vehicles with Mitsubishi 4 cylinder 16-valve DOHC engines

We have recently identified a serious problem suffered by the above engine, emanating from poor design of the factory spark plug wire connectors, together with the valve cover assembly and its gasket. In our opinion, this problem is so serious, that many of the driveablility and spark plug wire problems that owners encounter, including engine hesitation and misses, can be directly attributed to moisture and oil accumulating in the deep un-drained wells in which the spark plugs are situated. The problem occurs no matter what brand of spark plug wires are used.

[MarkSAE]

Yeah, that's an old technical bulletin that only applies to DSMs. The valve cover gaskets that go around the spark plug holes leaked in the earlier models, letting oil get into the spark plug holes. This isn't an issue on the EVO.

In general, Magnecors have never been the best fitting wires. I've had several sets of them in my 1g and 2g. I never had an issue with misfiring or anything like that.

[Eclipse]

I had a set of DSM Magnecors go bad in less than 5k miles. At night you could see the arcing on the wires surface! They do not take fault or warranty replace wires. Whatever happens with them it's your fault.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclignition.htm

My DSM was in great shape then with no leaks. With DSM's factory wires were best and I had some luck with Accel.

[Evo_xTSi]

THANK YOU FOR THIS POST!! I have been freaking out ever since the meet; my car has been stuttering! I was thinking to myself that I had some sort of boost problem or something! I've had magnecor wires in my DSM and they ran awesome so I didn't even consiter that as the problem. I just wish I never threw away the stock plug wires! I'm gonna get a set tomorrow! THANK YOU FOR SAVING ME TIME!!

[vtluu]

Question is, what do we do with all these expensive plug wires we just bought; sell them to Evo owners we don't like? :twisted:

[Evo_xTSi]

:werd:

[earlyapex]

I have no idea why anyone is still using those magnacore wires with everyone having so many problems.

I had a couple bad sets of magnacores in my DSM days. I switched to NGK and never had a problem.

[SJCoruja]

WOW..this is getting scarier by the minute. I haven't (tap tap tap goes the knocking on wood) had any problems since my initial scare and JBig's help with the screwdriver trick. Guess it is better to be safe then sorry, so I'll probably yank them.

SO...I know they have had group buys on Evom...what about a group sell? :wink: jk

[vtluu]

I say you should leave them on unless/until you start having misfire problems. After a while we'll do a survey of everybody who bought them, and figure out how many people had misfire issues after installing them. While one of us may not have much sway with Magnecor (as I've heard, they're notoriously bad about honouring their warranty), but if a dozen of us start making noise about it, maybe they'll pay attention.

[SJCoruja]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks Tam! :)

[nebolic]

can someone post pics of the potential problem of the wires and describe in some detail on what you think the issue is. I just contacted Steve @ Magnecore and brought this to his attention. He said he isn't aware of the problem for the Evo but I suspect that he isn't aware because no one ever bothers to call and question the product. Anyhow, if someone can post some pics, I'll contact them again and see what they can do, maybe they can revise the plug wires and resend us new and improved ones?

Nebo

[vtluu]

There's the problem with the wires coming loose because of air trapped in the coil pack connector boot, which I could take a photo of, but I'm pretty sure I solved that problem and still had misfire issues. I could also take a photo of how the sparkplug connectors don't fit as tightly, I suppose.

[nebolic]

okay so besides the fitment issue with the air pocket, shall i just tell them it doesnt work and it causes misfires?

Nebo

[smack]

i noticed when i put on mine that the contact didn't fit very snug in the coilpack.
seperate from the boot issue.

i had to spred open the contact on the wires to make a tighter fit.