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Navid@xperformance
04-25-2005, 12:38 PM
I've been tracking my M3's (e36 and e46) on the West coast tracks for a while (club races, OTC, instructing) and have a good idea what the BMW's can do in general. I just bought an Evo RS and so far, I've only autoxed it. I can see how this car could be wicked fast on track. However, I have nothing to gauge against except for BMW times. Could some of you who track Evos regularly post some laptimes for the local tracks? I'm mainly interested in:

Thunderhill full course CCW (indicate with or without the bypass)
Sears Point (indicate with long turn 7 or short turn 7)
Laguna
ButtonWillow (indicate the configuration # and direction)
WillowSprings
California Speedway
Reno-Fernley

It would be helpful to know the rough HP and weight of the car on these lap times too.

--Navid

Eclipse
04-25-2005, 08:27 PM
Some guys at BW today ran 2:10-11 CW #15. Before the timer disappeared. They may have gotten faster in the later sessions.

e8
04-25-2005, 09:43 PM
03's in stock form, with the right driver, can pull 2:10 ish @ Thunderhill i believe.

i am an okay driver, but have many HPDE's under my belt in my old Type R. first time out in the evo, i produced 2:19 laps with a 140lb passenger. i always ease up on turn 1 too...

earlyapex
04-25-2005, 09:51 PM
Some guys at BW today ran 2:10-11 CW #15. Before the timer disappeared. They may have gotten faster in the later sessions.

#13 CW Scott. :D

Eclipse
04-26-2005, 06:26 PM
You got it, Lost Hill was included.

Navid@xperformance
04-27-2005, 09:11 AM
If it was infact #13 CW, I saw Robi doing 1:59.7 on Saturday and 2:01.7 on Sunday (track was slower on Sunday) about 3 weeks ago in a NASA event. I was there with my e36 M3 racing with GTS. I got down to 2:00.6 on Saturday and 2:01.2 on Sunday. That's when I started wondering about the comparisons between these 2 cars. I'm really interested to know what the best laptime is at Sears because that's the ultimate handling track and BMW's always do well there (ALMS, WC GT...). I've been down to 1:50.1 at Sears with shorter turn 7 in my e36.

--Navid

earlyapex
04-27-2005, 12:44 PM
If it was infact #13 CW, I saw Robi doing 1:59.7 on Saturday and 2:01.7 on Sunday (track was slower on Sunday) about 3 weeks ago in a NASA event. I was there with my e36 M3 racing with GTS. I got down to 2:00.6 on Saturday and 2:01.2 on Sunday. That's when I started wondering about the comparisons between these 2 cars. I'm really interested to know what the best laptime is at Sears because that's the ultimate handling track and BMW's always do well there (ALMS, WC GT...). I've been down to 1:50.1 at Sears with shorter turn 7 in my e36.

--Navid

Robi's car is so far from a stock EVO it's not even funny. He has tons of power, lots of tire, LOTS of weight reduction (carbon doors, alum roof, carbon fenders, etc) quaife LSD, aero work, etc etc. It's basically a purpose built race car.

Navid@xperformance
04-27-2005, 12:57 PM
True, but it shows the true potential of the car. My M3 is not exactly stock either. I run in prepared which is half way between stock and unlimited. I have a 3.0 engine with cams and put out 240 to the wheels. It weighs 2625 which is not that hefty.

--Navid

earlyapex
04-27-2005, 01:06 PM
True, but it shows the true potential of the car. My M3 is not exactly stock either. I run in prepared which is half way between stock and unlimited. I have a 3.0 engine with cams and put out 240 to the wheels. It weighs 2625 which is not that hefty.

--Navid

yea, I was just making sure you knew how prepped robi's car really is. He probably puts easily 100+ more hp to the wheels as you and I believe it's under 3,000 lbs now.

So if you are doing 2:00.6 and he is doing 1:59.7 with that much more....

Navid@xperformance
04-27-2005, 03:55 PM
yea, I was just making sure you knew how prepped robi's car really is. He probably puts easily 100+ more hp to the wheels as you and I believe it's under 3,000 lbs now.

So if you are doing 2:00.6 and he is doing 1:59.7 with that much more....

My RS weighs 3025 with the stock seats still in it. I'd like to think I can get it down to 2800lbs if I gut it out and put some CF pieces on. But see that's exactly my point. The fact that you can pump out that much power out of that engine and get the weight down to a decent level speaks to the potential of the car. The e36 even with the euro engine will never produce that kind of power.

--Navid

onesicklambo
04-27-2005, 04:40 PM
i ddi button willows east loop ans west loop. west is the bigger/higher speed one right? i forget my time on that, but on east loop it was 57.52. it was during sport compact cars TRACK ATTACK. i wasnt in my evo:(..but rather my moms stock 350z i think its around 3300 lbs and 280 crank hp

earlyapex
04-27-2005, 06:10 PM
My RS weighs 3025 with the stock seats still in it. I'd like to think I can get it down to 2800lbs if I gut it out and put some CF pieces on. But see that's exactly my point. The fact that you can pump out that much power out of that engine and get the weight down to a decent level speaks to the potential of the car. The e36 even with the euro engine will never produce that kind of power.

--Navid

What did you do to get it down to 3025? That's how much my WRX weighed! :shock:

Navid@xperformance
04-27-2005, 07:53 PM
What did you do to get it down to 3025? That's how much my WRX weighed! :shock:

Not much really! Steering wheel, battery, lighter headers and turboback, yancked the A/C. added Sparco harness bar and Willans harness. I weighed it without the spare tire and jack.

--Navid

robi
05-02-2005, 09:31 PM
With the car in OTC trim (= open front dif, sunroof, stock doorsystem, lite seats, but with aero additions (APR and robispec)
RA1's 235/40/17's
Thunderhill 2:03's no bypass
Big willow 1:30's
Buttonwillow #13 ccw 2:00's
Car is WAY diferent now...

Navid@xperformance
05-03-2005, 10:14 AM
Good data Robi! Those are impressive numbers! How much faster do you think the car is now based on some recent laptimes? Do you have any SearsPoint numbers?

My first track day with this car will be on 27th this month. I'm instructing with NCRC at Thunderhill. If any of you guys can do a weekday thing, it'll be fun to get a bunch of Evos on track together.:driving:

--Navid

earlyapex
05-03-2005, 10:37 AM
Good data Robi! Those are impressive numbers! How much faster do you think the car is now based on some recent laptimes? Do you have any SearsPoint numbers?

My first track day with this car will be on 27th this month. I'm instructing with NCRC at Thunderhill. If any of you guys can do a weekday thing, it'll be fun to get a bunch of Evos on track together.:driving:

--Navid

I think you will pleasantly suprised with the EVO at thunderhill Navid. :)

I was mucho impressed with it there coming from a well setup OT wrx.

I would love to come on the 27th but I have been too spoiled by GGLC $145 thill events to spend $280 on one. :)

wilson1
05-03-2005, 10:59 AM
Bryan,

when is the next GGLC $145 thill event?

redvolution
05-03-2005, 12:04 PM
How much did the AC weigh?

earlyapex
05-03-2005, 12:05 PM
Bryan,

when is the next GGLC $145 thill event?

June 3rd - Reno Fernley
July 27th - Thunderhill
Sept 13th - Thunderhill
Oct 17th - Buttonwillow

http://www.gglotus.org/trkdays/ggtrkday.htm

$145 at thill is member cost (I think its $20 to become a member), approx $160 if you aren't a member.

WELL worth it. I get approx 200 ON-TRACK miles every event. 6 30min sessions. Great group.

wilson1
05-03-2005, 12:44 PM
How much did the AC weigh?

i got it in my hands, around 35-40 lbs

hagakure
05-09-2005, 02:23 AM
Good data Robi! Those are impressive numbers! How much faster do you think the car is now based on some recent laptimes? Do you have any SearsPoint numbers?

My first track day with this car will be on 27th this month. I'm instructing with NCRC at Thunderhill. If any of you guys can do a weekday thing, it'll be fun to get a bunch of Evos on track together.:driving:

--Navid

Sign yourself up for the time trial that day...then you will know what you can run with accuracy. I'll be there and will be doing the TT as well. I'm a slow beginner, and my best time in an 03 with about 320 HP (at the crank), aftermarket springs, camber plates (-2.5 front) and hoosiers is 2:13.5...hoping to be about 3 seconds faster oon the 27th...see you there!

Percy

cokofellah
05-10-2005, 01:24 PM
If it was infact #13 CW, I saw Robi doing 1:59.7 on Saturday and 2:01.7 on Sunday (track was slower on Sunday) about 3 weeks ago in a NASA event. I was there with my e36 M3 racing with GTS. I got down to 2:00.6 on Saturday and 2:01.2 on Sunday. That's when I started wondering about the comparisons between these 2 cars. I'm really interested to know what the best laptime is at Sears because that's the ultimate handling track and BMW's always do well there (ALMS, WC GT...). I've been down to 1:50.1 at Sears with shorter turn 7 in my e36.

--Navid

For some Sears times:
http://speedventures.net/event_results.asp
Some of us were there on the April 3 event.

redvolution
05-11-2005, 10:07 AM
Summary of my Sears notes for street tires and stock suspension+alignment+rear-swaybar:
- car is a bit of a handful into the corner before 2 going up the hill - lots of sliding
- coming out of the T2 the car was revelatory. I could get on the power so early compared to the bimmer (which had only 185 hp).
- T3 to T3a to T4 is similar to T2 in how early you can get on the power - rockets you over the hill and into brake zone for T4.
- Coming out of the esses into T9 down the hill I found the Evo to be exceptional as well - gained all sorts of ground on E46 M3s there at the last BMW CCA school in November
- initially I lost some of that ground through T10 because it was difficult for me to be consistent on turn-in (might have been street tires) but I did discover it's essential to be on the power when you start the turn-in so the front tires are pulling you toward the apex. Left-foot braking could be useful here.

Navid@xperformance
05-28-2005, 02:47 PM
I think you will pleasantly suprised with the EVO at thunderhill Navid. :)

I was mucho impressed with it there coming from a well setup OT wrx.

I would love to come on the 27th but I have been too spoiled by GGLC $145 thill events to spend $280 on one. :)

I think I got my answer. 2:00.388. :D I would have loved to brake that illusive 2 min mark, and I think it was possible if I had more time to fiddle with tire pressures.

Just for the record, that's the fastest I have ever gone at TH, even in my fully race-prepped e36 M3. This car is simply amazing! I can't wait to run it at Sears. :driving:

earlyapex
05-28-2005, 03:54 PM
I think I got my answer. 2:00.388. :D I would have loved to brake that illusive 2 min mark, and I think it was possible if I had more time to fiddle with tire pressures.

Just for the record, that's the fastest I have ever gone at TH, even in my fully race-prepped e36 M3. This car is simply amazing! I can't wait to run it at Sears. :driving:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

WOW! So Navid, what's your setup? That was with your hoosiers and staggered offset with the 18x10 CCW'S right?

What HP?

I think robi has tons more done to his car and you are on his heels. :twisted:

Navid@xperformance
05-28-2005, 05:02 PM
Wow, you know a lot about my setup. That's exactly what I'm running for wheels and tires. Stock engine internal, stock turbo, Xede with Vishnu's awesome race gas map, but with boost control wire disconnected (so stock boost), Hayward and Scott exhaust. I have Ohlins road and track on the car now. The car is ESP legal.

--Navid

earlyapex
05-28-2005, 06:26 PM
So just XEDE and turbo-back exhaust?

VERY nice driving.

How do you like the Ohlins?

hagakure
05-28-2005, 09:51 PM
Way to haul butt Navid....

My best yesterday was 2:11.6...still getting faster, and my hoosiers have turned to stone after 5 events on them! Getting bolder in turn one, getting used tot he car sliding. Need more negative camber int he front, and desperately need a coilover set-up....I think a stock MR suspension is preferable to what I am running. It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there! Also cool to see 285's stuffed under the wheel wells of an Evo!


Percy

wilson1
05-28-2005, 09:55 PM
Way to haul butt Navid....

My best yesterday was 2:11.6...still getting faster, and my hoosiers have turned to stone after 5 events on them! Getting bolder in turn one, getting used tot he car sliding. Need more negative camber int he front, and desperately need a coilover set-up....I think a stock MR suspension is preferable to what I am running. It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there! Also cool to see 285's stuffed under the wheel wells of an Evo!


Percy

Percy , what is your susp setup?

wilson1
05-28-2005, 09:56 PM
I think I got my answer. 2:00.388. :D I would have loved to brake that illusive 2 min mark, and I think it was possible if I had more time to fiddle with tire pressures.

Just for the record, that's the fastest I have ever gone at TH, even in my fully race-prepped e36 M3. This car is simply amazing! I can't wait to run it at Sears. :driving:

Wow, nice #!!!!!!!!!

Navid@xperformance
05-28-2005, 10:48 PM
How do you like the Ohlins?

Ohlins are great, but I'm still working with Moton to develop the triple race shocks. The car can use stiffer springs, but I don't think the Ohlins will keep up.

--Navid

Navid@xperformance
05-28-2005, 10:51 PM
It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there!

I don't think some those Radicals and GT3's were very happy to point me by, not to mention my good friend Mike Allen in the e46 ITE car. :D

--Navid

dohcvtec
05-28-2005, 11:03 PM
It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there!

I don't think some those Radicals and GT3's were very happy to point me by, not to mention my good friend Mike Allen in the e46 ITE car. :D

--Navid
Damn, that is just rediculous, lol. I need to start tracking this car! :)

wilson1
05-29-2005, 12:44 AM
It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there!

I don't think some those Radicals and GT3's were very happy to point me by, not to mention my good friend Mike Allen in the e46 ITE car. :D

--Navid

What are the times for those Radicals and GT3's ?

wilson1
05-29-2005, 12:45 AM
It was cool seeing Navid give a bunch of fast cars a run for the money out there!

I don't think some those Radicals and GT3's were very happy to point me by, not to mention my good friend Mike Allen in the e46 ITE car. :D

--Navid
Damn, that is just rediculous, lol. I need to start tracking this car! :)

:lol: Do it Mike!

leif
05-29-2005, 02:02 AM
awsome times navid. a high hp, race prepped evo should be around 1:53, so you're doing damn good.

hagakure
05-29-2005, 09:03 AM
I'm curious as to what type of times folks who are not using coilovers are running....seems that for the norcal folks that track their cars on a regular basis, only Bryan, myself, and Tony are not running coilovers...just a curiosity. I am working with a tuner who, at this point has to remain identity undisclosed, that has developed very very functional and fast suspensions for another make of car. He is turning his attention to the Evo for suspension development. The goal is to come up with a coilover suspension that is competitive for around 1500.00....stay tuned!:)


Again, huge props to Navid!!:)



Percy

Eclipse
05-29-2005, 10:09 AM
Tony runs Muellerized Teins as well.

Navid@xperformance
05-29-2005, 09:41 PM
awsome times navid. a high hp, race prepped evo should be around 1:53, so you're doing damn good.

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Who did a 1:53 at TH in an Evo? HP, weight, slicks?

Navid@xperformance
05-29-2005, 09:44 PM
What are the times for those Radicals and GT3's ?

The GT3's were running times around 2:01-2:02's. There were a couple of fast radicals well below 2:00 mark, but a bunch of them (3-4) were slower than 2:00.

Navid@xperformance
05-30-2005, 10:38 AM
Percy, coilovers are not any better than highly tuned set of springs and shocks/struts. The advantage they give you is the ability to adjust ride height and corner-weigh the car. A set of springs with the "ideal" drop in height, matched with a set of good shocks/struts, will be just as effective.

With the older cars that had separate shocks and springs (even modern BMW's rear suspension), coilovers give you a bigger advantage. But with Evos, we already have the advantage of "coilovers".

Having said that, I prefer to have adjustable coilovers because I don't trust anybody else's idea of what an "ideal" drop is on my car. :D

--Navid

vtluu
05-30-2005, 10:52 AM
Coilovers also allow you to run wider tires, which can be a huge advantage.

hagakure
05-30-2005, 11:12 AM
Percy, coilovers are not any better than highly tuned set of springs and shocks/struts. The advantage they give you is the ability to adjust ride height and corner-weigh the car. A set of springs with the "ideal" drop in height, matched with a set of good shocks/struts, will be just as effective.

With the older cars that had separate shocks and springs (even modern BMW's rear suspension), coilovers give you a bigger advantage. But with Evos, we already have the advantage of "coilovers".

Having said that, I prefer to have adjustable coilovers because I don't trust anybody else's idea of what an "ideal" drop is on my car. :D

--Navid


Thanks for the illumination Navid. I know that the main impediment to my going faster at this point is driving ability, which I am working on diligently. I'm pretty happy with being in the 2:11 range after 6 outings at Thunderhill. I am a little mystified with the entire process of suspension tuning however. I'm just trying to make minute adjustments to get the set up right, but it seems to be hit and miss. I need to find someone that can help me dial in my suspension given my current level of hardware. I am running the works springs with stock struts, works camber plates, -2.5 degrees of camber in front, -0.6 camber in the rear, .18 toe in the rear.
I am also running 225-45-17 Hoosiers, tires left over from the Grand American series 2004. They seem to have much more grip than the 235-45-17 RA-1's that I had. I am running these on an extra set of stock wheels. How do you think I can improve grip given this current set-up? The car is still a bit stubborn to turn. Should also mention that I got rid of the stock seats, and have a Cobra Suzuka, which has improved overall feel and connection with the car. I also have a set of Energy suspension polyurethane bushings for all control arm points and the sway bars. Will the bushings improve feel and connection? As you can see, I'm a little hungry to get the car dialed in correctly. Any assistance from Navid, or any of you other guys is appreciated!


Peace.


Percy

earlyapex
05-30-2005, 11:55 AM
Percy do you know what your spring rates are?

What setting do you have your rear bar set to?

Can you get more negative camber out of your current setup?

What tire pressures front and rear?

What ride height?

earlyapex
05-30-2005, 11:58 AM
Percy, coilovers are not any better than highly tuned set of springs and shocks/struts.

I think Percy was asking about people with stock struts (the normal evo's KYBs or the MR's bilsteins) since he has the stock KYBs but they are WORKZerFied.

I do agree with what you said Navid but I don't think the stock WORKZerFied KYBs are at that level.

hagakure
05-30-2005, 12:04 PM
Percy do you know what your spring rates are?

What setting do you have your rear bar set to?

Can you get more negative camber out of your current setup?

What tire pressures front and rear?

What ride height?

Well,

The works springs are approx. 20% stiffer than stock, they don't give outt he rates.
Rear bar is full stiff, I can get more negative camber, and am thinking of bumping it to 3.0 int he front. Tire pressures that have seemed to work best on the hoosiers are 37 front, 38 rear COLD. Ride height is about 1 inch lower than stock.

P

earlyapex
05-30-2005, 01:09 PM
Well,

The works springs are approx. 20% stiffer than stock, they don't give outt he rates.
Rear bar is full stiff, I can get more negative camber, and am thinking of bumping it to 3.0 int he front. Tire pressures that have seemed to work best on the hoosiers are 37 front, 38 rear COLD. Ride height is about 1 inch lower than stock.

P

You might be running out of travel in the front. What turns feel bad at thill for you?

hagakure
05-30-2005, 02:04 PM
Well,

The works springs are approx. 20% stiffer than stock, they don't give outt he rates.
Rear bar is full stiff, I can get more negative camber, and am thinking of bumping it to 3.0 int he front. Tire pressures that have seemed to work best on the hoosiers are 37 front, 38 rear COLD. Ride height is about 1 inch lower than stock.

P

You might be running out of travel in the front. What turns feel bad at thill for you?


the esses, (12A and B), The big sweeper that is 2....not enough grip....I'm in 4th and ON it, driving the line well, looking through to the track out, but I have to make counter-steering corrections to keep the car on the track. Granted, it was better when the hoosiers were fresh. Getting the car to turn in with stability on 8 is a challenge as well.


Percy

earlyapex
05-30-2005, 02:16 PM
the esses, (12A and B), The big sweeper that is 2....not enough grip....I'm in 4th and ON it, driving the line well, looking through to the track out, but I have to make counter-steering corrections to keep the car on the track. Granted, it was better when the hoosiers were fresh. Getting the car to turn in with stability on 8 is a challenge as well.

Yea I have noticed 2 will show any weaknesses in the car. I think more tire and more negative camber will really help out there, and a front LSD. What is your line there on entry? In tight, middle or wide?

A front LSD helps big time in the esses. I am flat out through there and I gained alot on methods4's car there since he has a open front.

Turn 8 is just turn 8. You have to get the line just right to really fly through there. Do you know how fast you going into turn 8?

hagakure
05-30-2005, 02:45 PM
the esses, (12A and B), The big sweeper that is 2....not enough grip....I'm in 4th and ON it, driving the line well, looking through to the track out, but I have to make counter-steering corrections to keep the car on the track. Granted, it was better when the hoosiers were fresh. Getting the car to turn in with stability on 8 is a challenge as well.

Yea I have noticed 2 will show any weaknesses in the car. I think more tire and more negative camber will really help out there, and a front LSD. What is your line there on entry? In tight, middle or wide?

A front LSD helps big time in the esses. I am flat out through there and I gained alot on methods4's car there since he has a open front.

Turn 8 is just turn 8. You have to get the line just right to really fly
through there. Do you know how fast you going into turn 8?



Turn 2 is a mid-track entry squeezing towards the Apex....maybe faster to drive onthe nice patch of new track down low...more grip.

A quaife is definitely in the cards, as wheelspin in the esses sucks...was chasing a lightweight M3 all day that would KILL me on that turn. 8 is 8, and I'm slowly growing some. Entry is about 85-90....


Percy

vtluu
05-30-2005, 03:49 PM
Turn 2 is a mid-track entry squeezing towards the Apex....maybe faster to drive onthe nice patch of new track down low...more grip.
Any thoughts on the double-apex line on 2 vs. the classic "school" line you described?

earlyapex
05-30-2005, 04:25 PM
8 is 8, and I'm slowly growing some. Entry is about 85-90....

Sounds about right. I was hitting it at about mid 90's last time. That corner just takes time since it's such a high liability corner. I am still working on it. It can be a little scary on street tires.


Any thoughts on the double-apex line on 2 vs. the classic "school" line you described?

I think it really depends on how the car is setup and what type of driving style you have. I go in a little wide and deep to set up the car wider mid turn and just point and shoot.

hagakure
05-30-2005, 04:33 PM
I personally di not feel that a double apex line is the fastest way through that corner with an Evo, at least not one that is set up like mine:). If I had an M3 that I could balance withthe throttle on the edge of disaster I might try that line. In fact, on the 2:11+ lap I did, my line was to hug the inside on the new portion of the track where grip was maximized. I'm really looking forward to next year, and having some 275 rubber on the car...I do think that can make a hige difference. My goal now is just to get to 2:09 in 05 with a few modifications to what I have. working on some secret power upgrades also. At this point I'm having a hard time pulling on s2000's that point me by after turn 14 at T-hill. My car with p2, throttle body, full exhaust and Cams only dynoed at 241 on S-squared's Mustang dyno in Sacto. Thats about 20 HP less than David U's car with the same mods......so, I need a different approach to power as well. Maybe I just have a weak car!:)


Percy

dohcvtec
05-30-2005, 07:34 PM
I believe AWD acts similar to FWD, from what I've been told. On turn 2 I always enter mid track, keeping my eyes on where i'm going to track out all the time. I really play with my throttle on that turn to keep the car on track. It definately shows the limits of my street tires on that turn. I feel pretty confident on turn 2. Turn 8 I'm around the same speed as you guys, 95mph. That turn just takes some balls. However, every time I go through it, I feel like I could have been carriying a little more speed. But when I approach it the next time, you get that slight pucker factor. :) Turn 14-15 I feel like I never do correclty. I always feel like I brake too early and go too slow through the turn.

vtluu
05-31-2005, 01:59 AM
Hmm, all this talk makes me bit itchy to get back to Thunderhill; next time I'll be there, I'll have about 5x as much experience (~10 days) as I did last time I was there (2 days); hopefully I'll actually be able to start chasing some of your lap times... :)

hagakure
05-31-2005, 07:58 AM
Hey Tam,

I know both Bryan and I, at least are going to t-hill july 27th with the Lotus club...you should come out. I'm sure you will have no trouble being in the same range as I am at least, with your car control skills from AutoX and the experience you have gained since your last time out. Plus, your car seems to be well set-up. Look forward to seeing you out there!


Percy

earlyapex
05-31-2005, 11:02 AM
My car with p2, throttle body, full exhaust and Cams only dynoed at 241 on S-squared's Mustang dyno in Sacto.

Dump that P2. I did 20whp more than you with just full exhaust, afc, mbc and fuelpump on a crappy ghetto tune. yea, mine is a 05 with the 10.5 hotside but I think your cams should at least equal out that difference.

Given it was the same mustang dyno but at a different place but still.

BTW, In addition to the GGLC event on July 27th, I will also be at thill with the miata club the week before.

hagakure
05-31-2005, 11:15 AM
Hey Bryan,


Can't make the miata club event, but I will see you on the 27th. I am going to be re-tuned by that time. I cannot say by whom, but it will be a dyno-tuned, vs. off the shelf Ecu-tek based tune. I am in NO WAY slamming works, I think they are a great company, good, ethical people, excellent hardware, good customer service and contact. I just want to try a diferent approach to making power.

I cannot believe how much fun I am having with this sport though. I am hoping to open track for one more year, and then get involved with the american racing club race series through NCRC...

Peace.


Percy

Navid@xperformance
05-31-2005, 12:03 PM
Percy, I'll be happy to help you with setup anytime. Just grab me at the next track day we attend together. There are so many variables in tuning the car (engine power, shocks, springs, swaybars, tires, tire pressure, alignment, surface...) and every change you make to each one of them is going to affect the others. My one advise to you is to make one change at a time and keep track of the progress.

Things that pop up right away:

1) You are running way too much pressure in those tires. Always measure your tires hot, not cold. I'd run around 40psi in the Hoosiers (hot).

2) You need more negative camber in front and possibly more toe-out if the car is still not turning in.

3) Part of the problem in turn 8 is the fact that you are looking down to see how fast you are going. :lol: I have run the 25-hr and 12-hr races at Thunderhill and I can't tell you how fast I was going through 8.

--Navid

hagakure
05-31-2005, 12:19 PM
Percy, I'll be happy to help you with setup anytime. Just grab me at the next track day we attend together. There are so many variables in tuning the car (engine power, shocks, springs, swaybars, tires, tire pressure, alignment, surface...) and every change you make to each one of them is going to affect the others. My one advise to you is to make one change at a time and keep track of the progress.

Things that pop up right away:

1) You are running way too much pressure in those tires. Always measure your tires hot, not cold. I'd run around 40psi in the Hoosiers (hot).

2) You need more negative camber in front and possibly more toe-out if the car is still not turning in.

3) Part of the problem in turn 8 is the fact that you are looking down to see how fast you are going. :lol: I have run the 25-hr and 12-hr races at Thunderhill and I can't tell you how fast I was going through 8.

--Navid



Navid,

thanks a bunch for the feedback and offer for assistance....I'll take you up on the help!

I should have told you that my hot pressures are a about 45 front, 44 rear, and this was suggested by hoosier for these particular (grand am series) tires. They are a bit differnt from the RSO4's....when I ran them at about 40 hot I was a few seconds slower, go figure.....I am going to bump the camber, for sure. I will be looking for you this fall with NCRC. Thanks again.... you are right about not looking at the speedo! If I'm looking there I cannot be keeping my eyes ahead of the car.


Percy

wilson1
05-31-2005, 12:24 PM
Guys,

I think Navid has so much experience over 99% of us that he can beat us with a stock evo! Can't wait what he can do with a full race prepped evo! :shock:

I am glad that Navid is local, and perhaps he/norcalevo can setup a evo day to instruct us! :D

vtluu
05-31-2005, 12:36 PM
Navid instructs with NCRC, and as one of those lucky enough to have benefited from his tutelage, I'll be the first to say he's an excellent instructor. :worthy:

hagakure
05-31-2005, 12:45 PM
It hink Wilson is on to a good idea. It would be excellent to set up a Norcalevo track day in the fall at t-hill, much cheaper on a weekday, and invite instructors to help improve driving skill on all levels. We could even create a skid pad in the paddock, the Z-club does that. there could be instruction/coaching for all levels of driver, for the beginning driver, to intermediate and high intermediate drivers that are looking to fine-tune and improve their skills. In ordert o make it finacially more feasible we could work something out with the norcal subaru guys to make it happen, have more cars, etc.....just an idea.


Percy

MarkSAE
05-31-2005, 12:53 PM
That sounds like a great idea Percy!

vtluu
05-31-2005, 01:05 PM
Last "NorCalEvo track day" (NCE members got special pricing with NCRC) didn't work out so well (2 Evos rolled). :? I personally prefer more "mixed" track days, myself; my worry with an all-Evo track day is people get carried away trying to show off or one-up one another and something bad inevitably results. Not that it can't happen with mixed track days, either.

Anyway, way OT. I believe this thread was supposed to be about Evo lap times? :)

Navid@xperformance
05-31-2005, 01:47 PM
Having our own track day is a logistical nighmare. I know a number of track organizers personally and trust me, it's not a task you want to take on. The insurance and ambulance costs alone will be enough to drive you away.

I instruct with NCRC, Tracquest, NASA and BMW club. Most of those clubs do the instructor pairings based on instructor's car experience. I usually get paired with BMW students, but that's changing. We can pick an event with any of those clubs and try to get a bunch of Evos out. I can only instruct one or two, but I can give you rides when I go out to drive.

Additionally, if there is enough interest, I can do a tech session at my shop to go over some car setup and driving techniques.

--Navid

wilson1
05-31-2005, 01:58 PM
Additionally, if there is enough interest, I can do a tech session at my shop to go over some car setup and driving techniques.

--Navid

Navid,

We will take you up on that!

What days do you have available for the norcalevo?
:D

wilson1
05-31-2005, 01:59 PM
It hink Wilson is on to a good idea. It would be excellent to set up a Norcalevo track day in the fall at t-hill, much cheaper on a weekday, and invite instructors to help improve driving skill on all levels. We could even create a skid pad in the paddock, the Z-club does that. there could be instruction/coaching for all levels of driver, for the beginning driver, to intermediate and high intermediate drivers that are looking to fine-tune and improve their skills. In ordert o make it finacially more feasible we could work something out with the norcal subaru guys to make it happen, have more cars, etc.....just an idea.


Percy

sounds good, Percy!

wilson1
05-31-2005, 02:01 PM
Last "NorCalEvo track day" (NCE members got special pricing with NCRC) didn't work out so well (2 Evos rolled). :? I personally prefer more "mixed" track days, myself; my worry with an all-Evo track day is people get carried away trying to show off or one-up one another and something bad inevitably results. Not that it can't happen with mixed track days, either.

Anyway, way OT. I believe this thread was supposed to be about Evo lap times? :)

Oh TAM......... :lol:

We can take it up on another thread .

hagakure
05-31-2005, 02:22 PM
All points well taken,
And we can take this up in another thread concerning a track day/instruction/etc.


Percy

wilson1
05-31-2005, 07:50 PM
Navid,

Norcalevo have taken your offer! :D

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4696&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Let us know which time works out best,

Thanks from all the norcalevo dudes!

TarmacEVO
06-01-2005, 12:09 AM
While we're on the subject of Navid's driving skill I would like to chime in and say Navid was nice enough to give me a ride on his first autox run this past Sunday. This was my first actual autox experience. I've watched a few and plan to drive one myself soon, but Navid made it seem so easy. He was very fast and smooth. I couldn't beleive how fast he drove. I am definitely hooked and want to get into this more. Thanks again Navid. That ride left a very lasting impression.
Gabe

evo_dadi
06-01-2005, 12:28 AM
sounds good gabe :D see you in marina on june 19 8)

looking forward for the tech session with navid also soon.

Navid@xperformance
06-01-2005, 10:50 AM
While we're on the subject of Navid's driving skill I would like to chime in and say Navid was nice enough to give me a ride on his first autox run this past Sunday. This was my first actual autox experience. I've watched a few and plan to drive one myself soon, but Navid made it seem so easy. He was very fast and smooth. I couldn't beleive how fast he drove. I am definitely hooked and want to get into this more. Thanks again Navid. That ride left a very lasting impression.
Gabe

You're welcome Gabe. It was very nice meeting you and thanks for helping me change tires for my last 2 runs. Next time, I'll give you a ride in a car that doesn't have corded tires. It'll be much better. :lol:

--Navid

TarmacEVO
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
You're welcome Gabe. It was very nice meeting you and thanks for helping me change tires for my last 2 runs. Next time, I'll give you a ride in a car that doesn't have corded tires. It'll be much better. :lol:

--Navid

Changing tires was the least I could do. I certainly wasn't able to feel the corded tires. However, I'll graciously accept any future ride along :lol: I can learn a ton from watching and riding with you. Anytime you need help with car prep I'll gladly lend a hand. See you around!
Gabe

TarmacEVO
06-01-2005, 10:33 PM
sounds good gabe :D see you in marina on june 19 8)

looking forward for the tech session with navid also soon.

I'm not sure if I can make that event because of work, but I am definitely going to get into autox soon. It was nice meeting you this weekend as well.
Cheers,
Gabe

slider
06-04-2005, 11:46 AM
I think I got my answer. 2:00.388. :D I would have loved to brake that illusive 2 min mark, and I think it was possible if I had more time to fiddle with tire pressures.

Just for the record, that's the fastest I have ever gone at TH, even in my fully race-prepped e36 M3. This car is simply amazing! I can't wait to run it at Sears. :driving:[/quote]

That's impressive Navid! What tires were you running!

btw, I just met your friend Mike Allen last month at TH for SCCA race weekend. Good guy!! So he's been to track testing for next weekends race huh?!

regards, kent

slider
06-04-2005, 11:52 AM
awsome times navid. a high hp, race prepped evo should be around 1:53, so you're doing damn good.

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Who did a 1:53 at TH in an Evo? HP, weight, slicks?

Leif, did someone post a 1:53?

leif
06-04-2005, 12:13 PM
awsome times navid. a high hp, race prepped evo should be around 1:53, so you're doing damn good.

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Who did a 1:53 at TH in an Evo? HP, weight, slicks?

Leif, did someone post a 1:53?

no its a theoretical lap time.

Navid@xperformance
06-06-2005, 11:38 AM
That's impressive Navid! What tires were you running!

btw, I just met your friend Mike Allen last month at TH for SCCA race weekend. Good guy!! So he's been to track testing for next weekends race huh?!

regards, kent

I was running on Hoosiers. I also tried v710 Kumhos and was less than a second off on those.

Mike and I both instruct with NCRC every chance we get. My e36 is pretty even with his e46, but he hated my Evo. He still sends me daily emails with some choice words. :lol:

--Navid