NCRC @ Buttonwillow, July 2-3

[vtluu]

I've just received E-mail from Dave Mills that unless NCRC gets more people signed up for this event shortly, it will be cancelled. That would be a real shame--weekend event, light attendance (read: tons of time on a beginner-friendly, uncrowded track) with a great club. Buttonwillow isn't much further from the South Bay than Thunderhill is--and if you count the traffic fustercluck going through Sac, it's actually closer time-wise.

I for one can't think of a better way to spend the Canada Day/July Fourth weekend.

Sign up today! (http://ncracing.org/bw050702.html)

[hagakure]

I'd LOVE to go, but their 2 day events are way too expensive. I'm getting to like the Lotus Club Events...spoils you. I'm going to buttonwillow october 17 with GGLC. If NCRC lowers the price I might consider it.

Percy

[hagakure]

Hey Tam,

you should take July 27th off by the way, and come out to thunderhill with GGLC. I know Bryan will be there, probably tony, and Evan, a pretty fast DSM driver.....


Percy

[methods4]

Percy,

I'm in fo sho barring some incredible natural disaster.

[leif]

everyones switching from ncrc to gglc cuz of the bloody price lol..

[methods4]

everyones switching from ncrc to gglc cuz of the bloody price lol..

Never been to an NCRC event nor do I ever plan to. More track time with GGLC, half the price. Makes sense methinks.

[leif]

everyones switching from ncrc to gglc cuz of the bloody price lol..

Never been to an NCRC event nor do I ever plan to. More track time with GGLC, half the price. Makes sense methinks.

o i agree. ive only done one ncrc thing and that was cuz it was like 150 bux. never done any gglc cuz its always during the week and i cant go. summers here now tho so maybe ill come out a few times.

[vtluu]

:roll: Well, by taking a day off work I'm basically losing almost $300 in pay (net). So weekend events end up being less expensive for me.

:offrant: I don't understand, people who will spend a couple hundred bucks on stupid WeaponRice braces that don't do a damn thing, won't spend a few extra dollars running with a club where they'll get instruction that's second to none which will make them faster. Whatever.

[earlyapex]

who buys weaponR BrAzEz and actually goes to track events?

[hagakure]

:roll: Well, by taking a day off work I'm basically losing almost $300 in pay (net). So weekend events end up being less expensive for me.

:offrant: I don't understand, people who will spend a couple hundred bucks on stupid WeaponRice braces that don't do a damn thing, won't spend a few extra dollars running with a club where they'll get instruction that's second to none which will make them faster. Whatever.


Well......I have no bling on my car, and I've had some good instruction prior to my running with GGLC....I need a bump up in instruction, namely a racing school. Seat time is proving to be very very valuable. Also, I'm no so sure that doing 8 to 10 open tracking events with an instructor necessarily makes you faster in all cases. In my experience the instructiont hat you get with NASA, NCRC, etc, is not really serious coaching for the most part, but showing you the line, pointing out obvious errors, etc. Also, even people that do not need coaching, ie very experinced drivers (of which I am not one) STILL pay 240.00 a day for less track time. I know for a fact that the massive amount of seat time I have gotten at the GGLC events has directly contributed to my getting faster. A racing school is the next step...had to answer your rant a little bit from another perspective.


Percy

[methods4]

:offrant: I don't understand, people who will spend a couple hundred bucks on stupid WeaponRice braces that don't do a damn thing, won't spend a few extra dollars running with a club where they'll get instruction that's second to none which will make them faster. Whatever.

I can understand the weekend thing but "a few extra dollars is like $25 or $50". Something that you can actually justify. Not $175.

[methods4]

who buys weaponR BrAzEz and actually goes to track events?

+1.

[vtluu]

I can understand the weekend thing but "a few extra dollars is like $25 or $50". Something that you can actually justify. Not $175.
Don't know how you got $175. I'm paying $425 for the two-day weekend event, that's $212.50 a day, about $50 more than GGLC's pricing which is for a weekday event.

The fun thing about 2-day events is that you spend the first day learning the track, and the 2nd day you come back with the track knowledge fresh on your mind but with a full night's rest, and that's when you can drive really, really fast laps.

And yeah, the WeaponRice thing was an example, I agree with you most people who buy their, uh, stuff don't track their cars anyway. Point was that track time is much cheaper than parts most of us don't even think twice about buying.

[earlyapex]

yea, $460 with the earlybird $35 off isn't a bad price.

I would do the two day but it would cost too much for me since my car would probably melt down, I would blow through a set of front pads easily, plus I already have two events planned for july anyway.

Have fun at bwillow though Tam, I love that track.

Have fun with the F-bodies too since it looks like they are having a event there.

[hellz Evo]

NCRC is a cool group of people, I will definitely try to go for the weekend.

Lot of seat time at their events. As for who does what with their cars? we

should remember it is their car and they can do what ever they want. I

how ever agree with most of you that I would never add or remove any

thing unless it positively influenced my performance. At the same time I

respect others taste, values and point of view. So if they think it's cool

for their car, than that is all I need to know.

Cheers
Sammy

[vtluu]

Not only am I doing July 2-3 at Buttonwillow with NCRC, I'm doing July 9-10 at Willow Springs with NASA. Luckily I'll have July 4 to service/prep the car after Buttonwillow. If July 2-3 gets cancelled I may do June 25-26 at Buttonwillow with PCA/GGR, if not I'll find out who's running at BW on July 2-3 instead of NCRC and run with them, if it's not motorcycles. It's just too good a weekend to waste!

[earlyapex]

damn u gonna drive to buttonwillow, then drive all the way down to willow springs the week after? Streets or big willow?

dayem :shock:

Streets of willow is really not worth the drive IMHO. It was ok when I lived in socal but not now that I live in norcal.

[vtluu]

Big Willow; I drove Streets "on my way back" from Rim of the World last month and quite enjoyed it. It's a good track for putting people with powerful expensive cars and not much skill to shame. :twisted:

I guess distance isn't much of an issue for me anymore.
- I drove to AZ and back, over 1000 miles, just to help out at a rally.
- Last year I drove to Seattle and back for Evolution (auto-x) school.
- Reno-Fernley is about the same distance as Buttonwillow, and the latter is a much more straightforward drive.

[earlyapex]

ah big willow. Have fun in turn 8 and 9. That's a big balls track.

Yea, I don't mind the trip to buttonwillow, it's worth it.

Streets of willow isn't in my book though unless I had something else going on down there.

[vtluu]

Looking at the track map I didn't think Big Willow had 9 turns. :lol:

[earlyapex]

http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/images/RoadCourseLg.gif

[smack]

coming from someone who has tracked his car once or twice...

that ricer brace helped kill my motor oscillation quite a bit. when energy
suspension makes some real motor mounts (or i can track down the
ralli art ones) then i'll scrap it but until then, it actually IS better than nothing. :D

see ya at the track

[vtluu]

Hah, so it has exactly 9 turns. Though I dunno about "turn" 7. I guess because it's a NASCAR track, anything that isn't straight as a laser beam is considered a "turn". :P

[smack]

Have fun in turn 8 and 9.
you're not kidding about 9, get that wrong and you either collect the end of the pit wall at a
pretty good pace or you run thought the hot pits. lol
yikes

[methods4]

Don't know how you got $175. I'm paying $425 for the two-day weekend event, that's $212.50 a day, about $50 more than GGLC's pricing which is for a weekday event.

I was a little overexaggerating but still close. I was looking at $140 GGLC (member) vs. $320 NCRC (non member) for a single day. I guess 2 day pass is a better deal but still. A little pricey.

I dun think I want to put my car through two days of hell. I feel so bad for it after one day. :P

Have fun though Tam. I envy your upcoming track schedule. Keep it shiny side up!

[hagakure]

One more thing about seat time. With GGLC I get 7 30 min sessions or 210 minutes in one day. With NCRC, trackmasters, etc, I get 5 25 minute sessions, or 125 minutes. 2 days gives me 250 minutes...so it's still too good a deal for me. I hear the folks at NCRC and T masters talking about the fatigue inthe afternoon, etc...but I've never been tired. Conditioning can help a lot here. But, Tam, have a great time on your socal trips, sounds great, and I'd probably be right there with you if I had the resources, but a whole lot of $$ is flowing to architects and structural engineers as we start the design phase of our house....sucks not to be fabulously wealthy!!!

Peace.


Percy

[vtluu]

Ah, a house. Architects and structural engineers? You'd better have a pretty sweet garage setup to show for it! Yeah, wish I could afford a house--well, the kind of house I wanted. Sucks not to be fabulously wealthy, can't agree with you more! :lol:

As for track time, now that I've moved up a group I can run "down" a group and get something like an additional 5 20-25 minute sessions for over 200 minutes a day if I want. Though I usually like to take time between sessions to unwind, socialize, get rides in other people's cars, etc.

If the NCRC event ends up cancelled I'll probably run with GGLC (see if I can keep up with my housemate in his new Elise)... But dammit, the July 2-4 weekend seems too perfect not to do a track event. Even get July 4 off to service the car for the next weekend! I'll find me a track event for that weekend no matter where it is; hmm, am I ready for Sears Point? :shock:

[hagakure]

Sears.....wish I could run there. My wife made me promise not to run at that track until the car is a FULL competition car and I am licensed....she's freaked out by the walls. Laguna is acceptable though:). I'll fimally do Laguna Dec 1 with TMR....I'd be looking for something the weekend of the 4th as well, but family stuff prevails....


Percy

[hagakure]

Ah, a house. Architects and structural engineers? You'd better have a pretty sweet garage setup to show for it! Yeah, wish I could afford a house--well, the kind of house I wanted. Sucks not to be fabulously wealthy, can't agree with you more! :lol:

As for track time, now that I've moved up a group I can run "down" a group and get something like an additional 5 20-25 minute sessions for over 200 minutes a day if I want. Though I usually like to take time between sessions to unwind, socialize, get rides in other people's cars, etc.

If the NCRC event ends up cancelled I'll probably run with GGLC (see if I can keep up with my housemate in his new Elise)... But dammit, the July 2-4 weekend seems too perfect not to do a track event. Even get July 4 off to service the car for the next weekend! I'll find me a track event for that weekend no matter where it is; hmm, am I ready for Sears Point? :shock:


The garage will be a showcase...that was my sacred cow! Lift included!


Percy

[dohcvtec]

The garage will be a showcase...that was my sacred cow! Lift included!


Percy
Sweet I'll be driving up to your place to work on my car. :)

[smack]

Sears.....wish I could run there. My wife made me promise not to run at that track until the car is a FULL competition car and I am licensed....she's freaked out by the walls. Laguna is acceptable though:). I'll fimally do Laguna Dec 1 with TMR....I'd be looking for something the weekend of the 4th as well, but family stuff prevails....


Percy
i've seen way more damage done at laguna than sears. i think i've seen more people
hook into the wall at 6 alone than all of sears.

i mean you can get it wrong at any track and do damage. you just don't go out your
first session of the first time on a track with breaking lap records on your mind. it's as
simple as that.

percy your smart, you can tell you use your head out there and that's what will keep you
out of the walls. no matter where you run you will be fine. the fact that you respect the
danger at the track is the big thing. it's the guys that couldn't tell you if turn 4 is a "left or
right hander" but are still worried about their lap times, those are the ones that scare me :lol:

like you said before, it's all about seat time. the more experience you have the easier it is
to sneak up on those faster times.

[hagakure]

Sean,

Thaks for the encouragement, and I think you are right! I'd really like to run infineon this year, so we'll see what I can talk Lisa into! I really do make every effort to be reasonable and drive within myself at any track. CAse in point was Reno Fernley. Was having lots of trouble with rear end grip due to having new hoosiers ont he front, very worn (actually corded severely by days end) tires on the rear, as well as having problems with a few corners, so, decided to take it easy. Lap times were relatively slow that day, but I still had fun! Did not think it wise to go more than 115 through those esses at turm one, when some of the Elise Drivers were hauling through there at 125! We live to fight another day, eh? Hope to see you at the track soon.


Percy

[smack]

i'm trying to get it together for the miata day but that might fall through since work is
getting pretty busy but i definitely want to make the lotus club day.

i'm sure i'll see you out there sometime just not sure when yet :lol:

[dohcvtec]

I "might" be out there saturday and sunday with speedtrials doing streets.

And Percy, I agree with Sean. I've seen you out there on the track, you're a level headed guy. You have nothing to fear at Sears. Its a very challenging course, I think you should go for it. :)

[hagakure]

Maybe I can get a permission slip from you guys to show my wife!! :twisted:

[dohcvtec]

Maybe I can get a permission slip from you guys to show my wife!! :twisted:
Totally! I can have my girlfriend have a talk with her, hehe.

[methods4]

Sean,

Thaks for the encouragement, and I think you are right! I'd really like to run infineon this year, so we'll see what I can talk Lisa into! I really do make every effort to be reasonable and drive within myself at any track. CAse in point was Reno Fernley. Was having lots of trouble with rear end grip due to having new hoosiers ont he front, very worn (actually corded severely by days end) tires on the rear, as well as having problems with a few corners, so, decided to take it easy. Lap times were relatively slow that day, but I still had fun! Did not think it wise to go more than 115 through those esses at turm one, when some of the Elise Drivers were hauling through there at 125! We live to fight another day, eh? Hope to see you at the track soon.


Percy

125mph through esses?!?!?!! I'm scared to turn the wheel at all at 125mph.

[hagakure]

I feel you....115 felt crazy fast...but that corner calls for it. There was a guy with a VERY well sorted Espirit that was going through there flat at 130...he was running 1:22 laptimes...14 seconds faster than I was on a 2.4 mile track. It is a VERY fast track. I'm looking forward to going back with fresh tires and knowing the track a little bit. That turn is so wide it does not scare me as much as T-1 at thunderhill....I think I can get below 2:10 at T-hill if I can grow the stones to gho through T-1 at 100+...but, baby steps!!


Percy

[earlyapex]

125mph through esses?!?!?!! I'm scared to turn the wheel at all at 125mph.

Tony, if you know how to drive, you don't have to turn your wheel through esses.

TIA!

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/Thisisgonahurt.jpg

[hagakure]

HAAA!

these esses do require some slight steering adjustments, as they flip back and forth between slight camber adjustments...by the end of the day I found that the fastest way through was to lift slightly after the first "s", Let the car take it's set, then get on the gas while keeping the wheel straight through 3 and four....
the next time out I will definitely be able to go through there at 120-125....it's a great track guys!!


Percy

[vtluu]

As you've probably noticed, there's a slight crest between T1 and T2; at 100+ mph the car will be rather light coming off that, so be mindful of it.

[methods4]

125mph through esses?!?!?!! I'm scared to turn the wheel at all at 125mph.

Tony, if you know how to drive, you don't have to turn your wheel through esses.



Those must be some looong esses unlike T-hill or BW then.

[vtluu]

Those must be some looong esses unlike T-hill or BW then.
The track map isn't accurate:

http://imagenode.com/9a

There's almost a straight line through the esses; if you're lined up just right you can shoot straight through T1-T2 and just wiggle the steering wheel to get through the rest until you get to T5.

[hagakure]

As you've probably noticed, there's a slight crest between T1 and T2; at 100+ mph the car will be rather light coming off that, so be mindful of it.

That's why I lifted just a tiny bit to let the car settle, then put my foot back in it after that. Where I lost a ton of time was that my rear end was sliding all over the place in decreasing double apex turn (5)......


Percy

[vtluu]

I took the classic "school" single-apex line through T5-T6; might experiment with a double-apex line next time 'round, but I don't think there's much time to be gained since there's not much room to carry speed coming out of T6...?

[hagakure]

I took the classic "school" single-apex line through T5-T6; might experiment with a double-apex line next time 'round, but I don't think there's much time to be gained since there's not much room to carry speed coming out of T6...?


Tam,

I think that the double apex line was fasterfor me not because I could carry more speed out of T6, but because for lack of rear end grip (very worn hoosiers), It pointed me at the apex in the correct attitude. The other thing that I was able to do by the end of the day (and I wish I had been on timing, because I'm sure that they were my fastest laps, trackside equipment was gone) was to basically be full on the throttle out of 6 through till 12....I had been braking before the kink into seven, and this is not necessary, as there is a lot more road to use there than the eye suggests. When I did this in my last session, my exit speeds were significantly higher, and I would assume that it was probably good enough to get me into the 1:34-1:35 range, but no timing so cannot claim it. It seems the secret to going fast in this track is really to concentrate heavily on using every inch of the road. That is always the case, but really the case here. I think that next time out I'll be able to carry speed in 4th from 14 through 15 as well.....lots of cars, including a well-sorted S-2000 were at 130+ MPH before turn one, and I was only at 125 at best...so there is a lot to be gained. Cool track though huh?!!


Percy

[vtluu]

On the first day I had my suspension (notably the rear swaybar) set up for rain and I had quite a bit of push going through T5-T6. On the second day I stiffened the swaybar and was able to carry a bit more speed through the turn while still being able to get the car rotated to hit the apex.

Yeah, it's a really fun track; if only the facilities were a bit better and they didn't charge $6 a gallon for pump gas (everybody took to driving a couple miles north back to Fernley for gas) it'd be perfect.

[hagakure]

Absolutely correct about the facilities, pretty poor at this point, but I know that they have plans for a lot of improvements. Not to mention the track will be 4 miles in length with several elevations changes, including one turn reminiscent of the corkscrew at laguna that will have twice the elevation drop! the gas situation sucked, and they charged SEVEN dollars for 100 octane!!


Percy

[earlyapex]

6bux for pump gas?!?!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[dohcvtec]

I've driven the Reno track once, when it first opened. Turn 5-6 was the same then as it is now. I to would double apex that turn. For some reason it just felt more comfortable that way. I would like to go back there to check it out. Can't wait until that baby is 4 miles long. $7 for 100 octane? DAMN!

[smack]

LOL! that will almost be $7 a lap in gas when they finish the rest of the track :shock:

[Eclipse]

I've just received E-mail from Dave Mills that unless NCRC gets more people signed up for this event shortly, it will be cancelled. That would be a real shame--weekend event, light attendance (read: tons of time on a beginner-friendly, uncrowded track) with a great club. Buttonwillow isn't much further from the South Bay than Thunderhill is--and if you count the traffic fustercluck going through Sac, it's actually closer time-wise.

I for one can't think of a better way to spend the Canada Day/July Fourth weekend.

Sign up today! (http://ncracing.org/bw050702.html)

I'm just curious if you've ever been to Bakersfield in July?

[vtluu]

I've been to Bakersfield in May and August and I don't have any reason to believe July would be any different. In other words, it would still be the dullest place on Earth. :lol:

What's your point? :P

[smack]

i'm pretty sure he's talking about the heat not the nightlife :lol:

[vtluu]

I've been to Death Valley in August. As long as it's a "dry" heat I'll be okay. :lol:

[vtluu]

Dave wanted me to remind everybody that first-time NCRC members take 33% off the entry fee of their first event. There's still time to sign up!