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View Full Version : how was thill yesterday (8/18)?



leif
08-19-2005, 01:06 PM
i was all ready to go but work stuff came up so i got stuck there. how was it??

hagakure
08-19-2005, 02:01 PM
Had fun....
Only Evos were Tam and I, we both ran in group three. I was not very fast, fastest lap wasa 2:14, Tam ran a 2:13. I'm trying to get used to many changes in my set-up (too many, as I've disobeyed the cardinal rule of not changing more than one thing at a time!) New 275's are awesome...still have to get used tot he RA-1 squishy sidewall. they are not as sharp at turn in as the old hoosiers, but there is a massive amount of grip due to all the rubber on the road! Spent a lot of time sorting out the new APR wing, feel like I have that squared away. Thanks so much to tam for helping me put in his spare rear brake pads, as mine were fried in the third session. I noticed that braking is not nearly as good witht he RA-1's as with the hoosiers, so I need to go with a more aggressive pad. The PF "Evo" pads are not stopping the car very well, and threshold braking was pretty much out of the question, lots of fade.

Weather was good, about 90 degrees. Track had lots of dirt, debris as there were a LOT of offs. Some cool cars, including a factory Elise racecar which weighed 1500 pounds and had 220 HP! He ran 2:00 flat. Still prefer GGLC with all the track time, low key atmosphere. Hope to see alot of folks on the 13th of september.

vtluu
08-19-2005, 02:48 PM
A summary of my day at Thunderhill yesterday:

Tech inspection cost $40. WTF? I didn't pay anything for tech at Willow Springs with NASA. Adding the $40 "hidden" fee to the track day fee and it doesn't look very competitive with other groups where there's no tech fee.

As Percy said, he and I ran in HPDE 3. I had the impression this was basically open passing with point-by but we were restricted to passing in most of the straights. Point-bys to pass are optional (but encouraged) with NASA but I'd say in 90% of passes they were used. There were a few times I didn't wait for the point because I was set up for the pass before they could point and waiting would have just made things more difficult.

There were 23 drivers in our group; this made for the occasional traffic bottleneck but it wasn't too bad; however it was difficult to get in a fast lap. We ran the bypass which was a bit disappointing to me as I was hoping to get times to compare against my housemate and his Elise.

First session: we sat in our cars for 15 minutes in the hot pits because a Dodge Stealth from the previous group wrecked its front suspension, and they were having trouble towing it, and after they did there were a bunch of parts littered on the track. We finally got out, and then the session was black-flagged after about ten minutes because three drivers had spun out on various parts of the track at the same time. Dumbasses. We were not impressed.

Second session: much better; a yellow Acura spun off the track twice (off turns 5 and 9) and was excluded from the next session. Guess he should have spent more money learning to drive and less money on Type R stickers.

Third session: getting faster. Had the video camera running, just in time to film myself chasing down and passing an Elise, and then chasing down and passing a Porsche GT3. Briefly had a weird boost issue where it looked like I couldn't boost higher than 12 psi. Decided to keep running and deal with it later. Next lap I check the boost gauge and boost is up again, WAY up: holding 24 psi through redline. :shock: Engine still running smooth though; it's a good thing I'm running half race gas.

Fourth session: heavy on food and fuel so I take on a passenger for a nice "leisurely" drive. Percy comes in afterwards and complains of some noise from his right rear corner. Sounds like scraping--we inspect the rear brakes and sure enough, the inside pad is worn almost to the backing plate. Luckily I have a new set of Ferodo DS2500 rear pads with me, and within about 15 minutes I put them on his car; to think it took me almost an hour per corner the first time I did it! :)

Fifth session: in the "excitement" of replacing Percy's brakes I forget to get gas. After a couple laps I feel a lurch, and a few moments later I realize I'm down to my last 2 gallons of fuel. I come in, get gas but with 20-minute sessions there's not enough time to get back out on the track.

Sixth session: all that happy-fun boosting finally takes its toll. A few laps in, coming up the 8-9 stretch I blow an intercooler hose. Now normally the thing to do if that happens (other than fixing it) is to disconnect the MAF sensor--the ECU will go into limp mode and you'll have a (badly-)normally-aspirated car that's at least drivable. Otherwise, as soon as it comes close to making positive boost (comes off vaccuum) the engine chokes and almost stalls from all the fuel that's being dumped in by the ECU which expects there to be a lot of air to burn it with. Net result the car bucks and shakes violently, scary black smoke comes out and the only way to limp the car along is to short-shift at around 2k RPM... However, disconnecting the MAF requires getting out of the car which is not an option. So there I was, trying to juggle not stalling the car (and every time it did, I'd lose power steering), driving off the racing line (harder than it sounds--you instinctively always try to get back on the line), and watching the mirror for cars coming up behind that might clobber me. I hold up traffic a bit, wave cars by as much as I can, and eventually make it back to the pits. Pop the hood and a nice hissing sound quickly pinpoints the blown hose joint just under the airbox. Five minutes later it's fixed.

Luckily we get "bonus" 1/2-hour session (all groups, HPDE 3 passing rules) so I can redeem myself. I go out and on my first full lap of the session, run my fastest lap of the day, 2:10.61. My target had been 2:15 with the Cyclone so 2:10.61 with the bypass was still much faster. :)

But my brakes are starting to go. For example, in turn 1 a few times I find I don't even need to turn in for it--just tap the brakes and the left brakes bite in so much more than the right brakes the car just turns in. I've got a "clean" day so far--no spins, no excursions--but on my sixth lap or so I come in hot down the 13-14 straight, hit the brakes at the usual braking point, and... nothing. I pump the brakes and get a bit more braking but it's too little too late. Quickly assessing the situation I drive the car off the track, going off at 58 mph and coasting slowly down in the grass to below 20 before I turn it around; by then I'm about 2/3 of the way to the 7-8 straight. I pull in to the hot pits where I'm waved back on without comment. I do a couple more laps but with the brakes being iffy, I move up my braking points and go a bit slower.

I think the problem with NASA is that within the same HPDE group there's an extremely variable amount of experience. Percy and I felt like we were being babysat when clearly we knew what we were doing, while there were some guys who clearly shouldn't have been in HPDE 3 (heck if you spin twice in the same session you should still be riding with an instructor). Otherwise they were good safety-wise, but I don't think I'll be running with them again unless it's time trials or full-out racing. The event was more crowded than I would have liked and with the BS tech fee (which is good only for one event, not annual tech or anything) the price is not good either.

vtluu
08-19-2005, 02:54 PM
A little addendum about my "off":

I looked in detail at my DL1 datalog last night. On the lap where it happened, I braked at the same place and about the same speed as I did in at least 2 previous laps (in fact in some laps I braked even later), about where marker number "4" would be if there was one.

On previous laps, I got between 0.7 and 1.0 G's of deceleration under braking. On that lap, I got between 0.4 and 0.5 G's--so basically the brakes were half as effective as on other laps.

So unless it was just me not pressing hard enough on the brake pedal (which I doubt), I don't think there was anything I did wrong. I'm bummed that I didn't have a perfect "clean" day though. :(

vtluu
08-19-2005, 02:59 PM
A couple other interesting notes from my datalog results:
- Maximum sustained G's (lateral) was about 1.1 which I sustained through most turns; gotta love those race tires!
- Maximum peak G's (lateral) was about 1.4. :shock:
- Maximum calculated WHP (based on vehicle weight, acceleration, gear ratios, wheel circumference, etc.) was about 260.
- On my fast lap, maximum speed attained was 112.5 mph on the main straight.
- On my fast lap my slowest speed through turn 1 was around 82 mph.
- Taking my fastest sector times, my fastest "theoretical" lap time would have been just under 2:10, so my fast lap was fairly consistent.

Also, while experimenting with upshifting to 5th in the main straight, I broke my 5th gear synchro (again). Warranty is expired so I guess I won't be getting the grind fixed by Mitsu this time; time to save up for a TRE tranny!

I'll have videos posted soon.

hagakure
08-19-2005, 03:02 PM
GO TAM!! 2:10's.....excellent work, I would have mentioned it in my post, but I only knew about the 2:13. Yes, it was a chaotic day, but we live to drive again, no?:)

dohcvtec
08-19-2005, 03:02 PM
With NASA you normally get teched before the event. Guess I'm just so used to doing it that way with them its a non issue. If you do get teched beforehand, it is free. Just keep that in mind. I agree there is a large gap in experience in Group 3. I however still run group 3 only because my car is not fully prepped IE roll cage, other wise I would be running group 4. I have no complaints with NASA except for the fact you don't get nearly as much track time as GGLC. But NASA does have some good instruction even for us intermediate folks.

methods4
08-19-2005, 03:20 PM
Nice write up guys.

Tam, did you figure out why you are getting erratic boost?

Percy. Fading the PFs? My calipers are dark brown and I still haven't faded those PFs. On the other hand, I'm running purdy 2pc rotors and way less tire than you. :D

And $40 for tech? Holy rip off. There was no self-tech option?

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 03:20 PM
percy, how much rear fender rolling did you have to do to fit your 275's if at all?

Weird that you got fade out of the PF's, I only got a slight hint on that 108degree track event last month.

What was the temp like at the track yesterday?

1stSAGE
08-19-2005, 03:22 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 03:25 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

You'll know when you do a 2:08 at thill. 8)

methods4
08-19-2005, 03:29 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

How does one answer that question? Medium well?

1stSAGE
08-19-2005, 03:53 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

How does one answer that question? Medium well?

Apparently you aren't able to... :(

1stSAGE
08-19-2005, 03:58 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

You'll know when you do a 2:08 at thill. 8)

That's great, because I do 2:08 all day at THill...I should know this... :?

Richard EVO
08-19-2005, 04:06 PM
What group organized the event? $40 for tech is BS. I think 2:10 is a great time. I'm too embarrassed to tell you what I ran on Aug. 14 & 15, but at least the weather was pretty cool. :oops:

vtluu
08-19-2005, 04:08 PM
Weather was nice, 70 in the morning climbing to high 80s in late-afternoon. I got paddock space in the new covered area; it was nice to be able to park and work in the shade.

Not sure what was going on with boost. Late in the day it was holding steady at around 24.5 psi. This morning I did a 3rd-gear pull on the freeway and it was back to normal, peaking at 21 psi and holding just over 20 psi through redline. After the first session that it happened, I reset the ECU but it was still boosting high afterwards. By the end of the day I was running almost pure 100 octane and the engine seemed to be smooth (260 whp with just a TBE + P2R, can't complain).

Maybe something to do with the P2 in combination with the JDM MR "BOV" I'm running? I'll have WORKS look at it sometime next week...


What group organized the event?
How many times did I mention "NASA"? :nana: Yeah, that tech fee is a crock.

Richard EVO
08-19-2005, 04:18 PM
I only went to one NASA event at Buttonwillow last year, and I will never run with them again. 4 HPDE groups and 2 race groups with practice races, qualifying and races. I only got four 20-minute run sessions all day. I get anywhere from two to three times that much seat time with Speed Ventures.

And NASA is too organized. Mandatory download sessions after every run, you have to carry that little book around for instructor comments, etc.

I graduated elementary school in 1969 and don't care to go back. :P

methods4
08-19-2005, 04:23 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

How does one answer that question? Medium well?

Apparently you aren't able to... :(

That's because that is a question that can't be answered by anyone. What kind of answer are you looking for? Someone to say, "You need to have eleventeen skillful points before you can run a 2:08 in an Evo or Viper"

???

methods4
08-19-2005, 04:28 PM
That's great, because I do 2:08 all day at THill...I should know this... :?

:goyouyoureawesome:

Bypass or no bypass? What mods/tires/brakes/gas/etc?

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 04:28 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

You'll know when you do a 2:08 at thill. 8)

That's great, because I do 2:08 all day at THill...I should know this... :?

Mid 2:0X to high 2:0X is pretty damn fast in a street car on R-compounds.

2:10 to 2:14 is pretty damn fast on a street car with street tires.

those times are WITHOUT bypass. With bypass, subtract 2 to 3 seconds.

Does that answer your question better?

vtluu
08-19-2005, 04:42 PM
So that makes me "fast"... How many more skill pointz do I need to get to "damn fast"? :lol:

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 04:58 PM
So that makes me "fast"... How many more skill pointz do I need to get to "damn fast"? :lol:

"fast" is pretty good for your 3rd time at Thill. 8)

Cameron@xperformance
08-19-2005, 04:59 PM
So that makes me "fast"... How many more skill pointz do I need to get to "damn fast"? :lol:

"fast" is pretty good for your 3rd time at Thill. 8)
:D

vtluu
08-19-2005, 05:03 PM
Need to find another 10 seconds and be "ffing fast" like Navid or Kent. :lol:

Cameron@xperformance
08-19-2005, 05:14 PM
Need to find another 10 seconds and be "ffing fast" like Navid or Kent. :lol: :lol:

leif
08-19-2005, 05:24 PM
you are supposed to go get teched before the track. this note is clearly posted both on the nasa website and in the multiple emails they send you before the event.

self tech is a load of shit, its the least safe (unsafe..est?) thing ive ever heard of. at the nce ncrc day i was told 'just check everything off and give it to me and hurry up cuz there's a line' when asked wtf this self tech ish was about.

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 05:27 PM
self tech is a load of shit, its the least safe (unsafe..est?) thing ive ever heard of. at the nce ncrc day i was told 'just check everything off and give it to me and hurry up cuz there's a line' when asked wtf this self tech ish was about.

yet the 10+ or so events I went to this year and last have all been self-tech and I don't think I saw one black flag in any of them and barely any offs, espically not 3 in each session or 2 evos rolling end over end off track within 15 minutes of each other

Maybe go to events that don't have absolute morons showing up trying to be Mario Andretti and you won't have to worry about such things. Usually good drivers or at least sane people know that actually making sure their car is in safe driving condition is there responsibility and they actually check it.

Richard EVO
08-19-2005, 05:27 PM
I don't know about NASA tech, but at Speed Trials USA they have Tech Nazis running their pre-tech. They told me I had to replace all my RA1s before going on track. 2 of those tires had at least 6 track days left on them, and the others had 2 or 3 days left. They also said I should replace my rotors. I have done 5 track days since, and could do probably 1 or 2 more before replacement is required. :evil:

They are nuts. I prefer self-tech. Or no tech (TracQuest).

vtluu
08-19-2005, 05:30 PM
The point behind self-tech is that you get to know your car and you take personal responsibility for ensuring it's safe. I've done 10 track days and many times that many autocrosses, I don't need to be babysat.

methods4
08-19-2005, 05:36 PM
The point behind self-tech is that you get to know your car and you take personal responsibility for ensuring it's safe. I've done 10 track days and many times that many autocrosses, I don't need to be babysat.

Agreed.

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 05:40 PM
The point behind self-tech is that you get to know your car and you take personal responsibility for ensuring it's safe. I've done 10 track days and many times that many autocrosses, I don't need to be babysat.

Exactly, and if you go to events that don't have assnut drivers thinking they are hotshots with 2 track events under their belt then you shouldn't have a problem.

If you go with people that respect each other then you get a better experience overall. I remember NASA being a utter clusterfug and told myself I would never go back on track with NASA ever again. Other people being morons cut into MY track time and I if I am going to pay hundreds of dollars to do a event, I don't want Mr.BabyCakes in his Playstation car that he thinks drives and repairs itself cutting into my track time if he spins off in turn 6 or blows up his transmission going into turn 5.

Maybe I am just getting too old. :?

vtluu
08-19-2005, 05:40 PM
espically not 3 in each session or 2 evos rolling end over end off track within 15 minutes of each other
Yeah, that reminds me. Both Percy and I got the "Evo lecture". Basically instructors pulled us each aside and told us to be careful because Evos were "especially prone" to rolling over.

WTF?!? :roll:

methods4
08-19-2005, 05:41 PM
Both Percy and I got the "Evo lecture". Basically instructors pulled us each aside and told us to be careful because Evos were "especially prone" to rolling over.

WTF?!? :roll:


HAHAHAHA

vtluu
08-19-2005, 05:44 PM
Yeah, it's especially prone to rolling over if you put two wheels off, panic and wrench the wheel or nail the brakes, go flying off the track sideways and dig one side into the dirt. Just like very other street car. :roll:

Richard EVO
08-19-2005, 05:45 PM
The point behind self-tech is that you get to know your car and you take personal responsibility for ensuring it's safe. I've done 10 track days and many times that many autocrosses, I don't need to be babysat.

Exactly, and if you go to events that don't have assnut drivers thinking they are hotshots with 2 track events under their belt then you shouldn't have a problem.

If you go with people that respect each other then you get a better experience overall. I remember NASA being a utter clusterfug and told myself I would never go back on track with NASA ever again. Other people being morons cut into MY track time and I if I am going to pay hundreds of dollars to do a event, I don't want Mr.BabyCakes in his Playstation car that he thinks drives and repairs itself cutting into my track time if he spins off in turn 6 or blows up his transmission going into turn 5.

Maybe I am just getting too old. :?

WERD. I went to a Speed Trials USA event at Buttonwillow a few weeks ago, even though I was warned by the SoCal EVO community to stay away. What a bunch of bozos. They talk a good game about safety, and then their High Intermediate drivers (the group I ran in) drive all over the landscape. Three (count 'em 3) drivers spun out right in front of me, including a friend of the organizer driving the organizer's car. That one was a near miss, as I just avoided the idiot as he tried to save a spin in Cotton Corners.

I will never go with that group again. :evil:

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 05:51 PM
I went to a Speed Trials USA event at Buttonwillow a few weeks ago, even though I was warned by the SoCal EVO community to stay away. What a bunch of bozos.

Yup that's another one. I went to one once, and we had a private run group so our group wasn't bad, but watching all the yellow and black flags in the other groups made me shake my head. A friend also went to another event of theirs and said there where cars going on track BACKWARDS.

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 05:53 PM
Yeah, that reminds me. Both Percy and I got the "Evo lecture". Basically instructors pulled us each aside and told us to be careful because Evos were "especially prone" to rolling over.


That's when you find them on track in your session and pass them on the inside in the dirt in turn 8. :shock: :lol:

vtluu
08-19-2005, 06:06 PM
The other reason NASA's tech scheme is stupid is it encourages people to get their cars tech'ed in advance--days (maybe weeks) before the event. Who knows what might happen in the intervening time--brakes, tires, etc. continue to wear. You might have left stuff in the car. Something may have broken since the inspection. So what's the point of me preparing the car to full "race trim" (emptying everything, putting on race tires, etc.) so some guy can check it when it may have no reflection upon the state of the car at the actual event? Idiotic.

1stSAGE
08-19-2005, 06:56 PM
Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

You'll know when you do a 2:08 at thill. 8)

That's great, because I do 2:08 all day at THill...I should know this... :?

Mid 2:0X to high 2:0X is pretty damn fast in a street car on R-compounds.

2:10 to 2:14 is pretty damn fast on a street car with street tires.

those times are WITHOUT bypass. With bypass, subtract 2 to 3 seconds.

Does that answer your question better?

Thanks, that right there gives me a really good point of reference (not relative to my driving abilities but just as a general curiosity)...and it sure beats the other answer.





Just curious, how skillful do you have to be before you can do Thill at 2:08 with a viper or evo?

How does one answer that question? Medium well?

Apparently you aren't able to... :(

That's because that is a question that can't be answered by anyone. What kind of answer are you looking for? Someone to say, "You need to have eleventeen skillful points before you can run a 2:08 in an Evo or Viper"

???

Hmm...no comment?

smack
08-19-2005, 07:10 PM
i run 2:08's and i have no skill at all :(
the car is a big cheat.

hey tam, what datalogging are you using?

Evo442
08-19-2005, 07:24 PM
Hey Percy/Tam - What did you guys think about the changes made to the track? I think that its a faster track now. I was there today, hit a personal best of 2:13 on one lap but was able to consistently run 2:16's which is pretty good for me. This was my first full day with the APR wing which made a significant difference over my previous low wing.

Changes included a deeper exit berm after 14 and a deeper longer exit berm after 8.

Saw your housemate out there today, Tam; he was looking pretty good out there in his blue Elise. (I love those little cars!)

I'd also like to hear more about the data logging equipment that you guys are using!

vtluu
08-19-2005, 07:44 PM
I'm using a Race Technology DL1 (http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Products/DL1/DL1Home.html). Right now the only additional input I have connected is RPM (tapped off the ECU harness) though I may add brake, throttle position and wheel speed in the near future. I made myself a wired remote so I can turn logging on and off from the driver's seat; I have the DL1 unit mounted via velcro (the slightly "loose" mounting isolates the unit from vibrations and such) in the middle of the rear seat area where the seat bench used to be.

I chose the DL1 over the TraqMate (which has similar capabilities) because the software is so much better. You can download the current version (5; 6 is in Beta and it's much improved, particularly the user interface which is quite a bit less cryptic) of the software here: http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Products/Software/SoftwareHome.html

If anybody wants to play around with the software I can post up a datalog file from one of my sessions.

Just got off the phone with my housemate. Was Kirk@WORKS there today as well? Jason says he was damn fast. :)

I heard they coned off the extra runoff in turn 12. I was cutting the turn a bit, apexing a bit earlier and driving with the turn 12 berm roughly centered under the car (my principle being I should at least keep 2 wheels "inside" the track ;)). I didn't use the extra paving off 14 because basically I viewed it as "reserved" space that was there just in case I screwed up. I did take advantage of it insofar that I used it to experiment a bit more freely with braking zones for the turn; I put two wheels "off" the 14 berm a few times. I don't think I would have been as brave without the paved runoff.

hagakure
08-19-2005, 09:51 PM
Nice write up guys.

Tam, did you figure out why you are getting erratic boost?

Percy. Fading the PFs? My calipers are dark brown and I still haven't faded those PFs. On the other hand, I'm running purdy 2pc rotors and way less tire than you. :D

And $40 for tech? Holy rip off. There was no self-tech option?

The PF's are hammered after 4 events, and they were NOT stopping the car yesterday. I ended up having to consistently brake 30-40 feet earlier, at minimum, all day. I;m going to try a more aggressive pad.

hagakure
08-19-2005, 09:53 PM
percy, how much rear fender rolling did you have to do to fit your 275's if at all?

Weird that you got fade out of the PF's, I only got a slight hint on that 108degree track event last month.

What was the temp like at the track yesterday?

Track temps were good. It was only 88-90. This is my 4th event on these pads, that might have a lot to do with it. I usually brake pretty hard, and they were fading like crazy. A little rolling was required to gett he 275's on. I also have to run 1.0 of neg camber int he rear compared tot he 0.5 I was running.

earlyapex
08-19-2005, 10:54 PM
percy, how much rear fender rolling did you have to do to fit your 275's if at all?

Weird that you got fade out of the PF's, I only got a slight hint on that 108degree track event last month.

What was the temp like at the track yesterday?

Track temps were good. It was only 88-90. This is my 4th event on these pads, that might have a lot to do with it. I usually brake pretty hard, and they were fading like crazy. A little rolling was required to gett he 275's on. I also have to run 1.0 of neg camber int he rear compared tot he 0.5 I was running.

Percy could you take some photos of your new 275 set up from the side of the car, and straight down the side of the car so I can see how everything lines up?

vtluu
08-20-2005, 01:56 AM
Video of my fast lap: http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album297/vtluu_THill_fast.avi

Sorry for the crappy sound quality; the Optio MX4 camera does a pretty good job of MPEG4 video recording but an absolutely horrid job of audio recording.

hagakure
08-20-2005, 08:03 AM
percy, how much rear fender rolling did you have to do to fit your 275's if at all?

Weird that you got fade out of the PF's, I only got a slight hint on that 108degree track event last month.

What was the temp like at the track yesterday?

Track temps were good. It was only 88-90. This is my 4th event on these pads, that might have a lot to do with it. I usually brake pretty hard, and they were fading like crazy. A little rolling was required to gett he 275's on. I also have to run 1.0 of neg camber int he rear compared tot he 0.5 I was running.

Percy could you take some photos of your new 275 set up from the side of the car, and straight down the side of the car so I can see how everything lines up?


No problem Bryan.
I suck at posting photos here, so will probably post on evom and include the link here.

crctslt
08-20-2005, 09:46 PM
Wow they did really change the track. All that run off seems to straighten out the esses.
:shock:

leif
08-21-2005, 03:15 AM
Wow they did really change the track. All that run off seems to straighten out the esses.
:shock:

yeah looks nifty now.

Bonster
08-21-2005, 10:50 AM
Hi guys and gals! I'm the one who lost her diff (white Spec Miata, #36) the other day. :oops: I'm going to get a limited slip to replace the OEM open diff with 220k miles on it this week. Sorry that I held you folks up a bit . . . but this was definitely not something I could have prevented, and if I had driven the poor thing off the track there would have been even more damage, and yucky hypoid oil all over the track. :?

Anywho . . . I just read through all the posts, and wanted to reply to the general consensus of them at once.

First off, I also organize track events, but as a private "club" kind of thing. We are T.E.A.M. Racing. We've always received great reviews on our format, etc., so I hope you'll get to join us in November for our two-day event.

Drawing from my experiences as an event coordinator, a professional instructor and licensed competition driver for both NASA and SCCA, I have a few comments to make . . .

First off, TEAM self techs. I like the idea because it does get you in-tune with your car. Nothing catastrophic should happen between a week or so before an event and your teching the car. If something major happens a week after you teched it, then either you didn't look close enough or your poor car needs serious TLC. One thing TEAM does offer on the self tech deal . . . if you are unsure about how to tech your car, EMAIL ME and I will personally tech it for you. And no, we don't charge a fee. I thought that the fee at NASA was for a year . . . I did not realize it was a per event kind of thing. I was the chick whom teched some of the cars, btw -- I say I should get a cut of the fees, don't you all think? Lol. So yes, I think that's silly. However, it's clearly just a way to get you to tech in advance of the event. TEAM threatens to charge five bucks if you don't bring a completed tech form with you, but I've only enforced it once or twice.

I was very surprised that someone told BOTH Evo drivers that their cars were prone to roll-overs. Grassroots Motorsports this recent edition seems to think the Evo 8s are awesome cars, and no mention of rolling them over. They aren't Suburbans for goodness sake! I'm sorry that you guys had to take that beating. Next time, come find me if I am there. I'll settle that score right away. B.S. to the nines.

As far as what is a fast time -- that's relative. You guys weren't racing, you were just having a crazy good time. Racing is far different, believe me. I never pull anywhere near the times at an open track event that I would racing . . . it becomes too unsafe to put my car on rails in a crowd of mixed experience levels. When I'm racing it's different because I trust the drivers around me more. That and it would not be at all cool if I were going 10/10s and ran into one of you guys. In racing that's something we have to risk . . . it should not be so in an HPDE type of event.

Hmmm . . . there were other things I wanted to respond to, but my feeble brain cell did not retain all of its memory. Sorry for the book of a reply. I hope to see you guys at a T.E.A.M. Racing event sometime soon, too!

earlyapex
08-21-2005, 11:51 AM
First off, I also organize track events, but as a private "club" kind of thing. We are T.E.A.M. Racing. We've always received great reviews on our format, etc., so I hope you'll get to join us in November for our two-day event.

Hey Bonster, welcome.

I was at your july 18th event. It was great. well, minus the 108 degree temps. :)

If you guys like the GGLC events, you will love the T.E.A.M. events as well, almost as much track time, and just as chill.

crctslt
08-21-2005, 10:55 PM
Yeah I was there too. I vote that T.E.A.M. Racing provides better weather with their track days :P

vtluu
08-22-2005, 12:07 AM
Welcome Bonni. I only remember the event being held up by a Dodge Stealth that destroyed its front suspension during the first HPDE 4 session.

The only white Spec Miata I remember was one I followed for a couple laps after lunch, until it spun off on the downhill side of the T5 bypass. I don't suppose that was you?

Bonster
08-22-2005, 12:31 AM
Yeah I was there too. I vote that T.E.A.M. Racing provides better weather with there track days :P

***Ha-ha, very funny Evan. :P That sure was hot, wasn't it? Holy crap! You were lucky that at least you car had A.C., its carpeting, etc.. Imagine how hot it was in my racecar! BLEK. Turns out that Willows had a record this year, with (on the July 18th event, at least) a straight 18 days of triple digit weather. I think we won't be asking for events in July any more. ;) In fact, next year's requested dates are: April 24th, May 29th, September 18th, and October 21 & 22. Hopefully the weather will be more acommodating, lol.

BW

Bonster
08-22-2005, 12:40 AM
Welcome Bonni.

***THANKS! :D

I only remember the event being held up by a Dodge Stealth that destroyed its front suspension during the first HPDE 4 session.

***That was Bob Forest's car . . . it was actually a teal-blue Mitsubishi 3000 GT car . . . the problem was apparently that the front right ball joint had not been properly torqued-down. Had Bob done the required tech on the car, he could have avoided the dilemma. Sure, it was his mechanic's fault . . . be we gotta CYA at these events, you know?

The only white Spec Miata I remember was one I followed for a couple laps after lunch, until it spun off on the downhill side of the T5 bypass. I don't suppose that was you?

***Nope, not me. In fact, Dave Bongiovani (spelling?) asked me about it. That was probably the white with the neon green lettering. Mine was the White with the green (technically, "Montego Blue") hard top, number 36. My diff broke at the exit of turn two . . . limped her along onto the slight clearing between four and five. No spins, though. :) But for an SM to have spun where you described, he had to have taken a line too far outside, or he didn't keep the gas on it. Miatas have to really peddle hard on that bypass to survive -- read, the more gas you put on, the better the car performs through there. One little tweak of the wheel at that point can cause a violent spin, I can only presume. Thank goodness you didn't get collected! That guy is a racer, too . . .shame on him! Lol.

BW

crctslt
08-22-2005, 01:06 AM
Yeah I was there too. I vote that T.E.A.M. Racing provides better weather with there track days :P

***Ha-ha, very funny Evan. :P That sure was hot, wasn't it? Holy crap! You were lucky that at least you car had A.C., its carpeting, etc.. Imagine how hot it was in my racecar! BLEK. Turns out that Willows had a record this year, with (on the July 18th event, at least) a straight 18 days of triple digit weather. I think we won't be asking for events in July any more. ;) In fact, next year's requested dates are: April 24th, May 29th, September 18th, and October 21 & 22. Hopefully the weather will be more acommodating, lol.

BW

All I can say is I had parts of me sweating that I didn't know could sweat that day :shock:

Bonster
08-22-2005, 02:18 AM
All I can say is I had parts of me sweating that I didn't know could sweat that day :shock:

** *Eheh . . know whatcha mean, my friend. I think even my intestines were sweating that day. But you know what was cool? Even with those extreme temps. we all took good care to have a safe track day. To that extent, I applaud folks like you -- THANKS for keeping it together. :D Imagine how bad it would have been had I not accidenatlly 'stolen' that guy's Infiniti to get more GatorAde? ROFL! :roll:

BW

Bonster
08-22-2005, 02:22 AM
PS - - - I would like to start putting up car logos on the TEAM website . . .please submit your fav.s to [email protected] I would really appreciate it if you could keep the initial file size to 200x200 max pixels. I'd like to also start up a links page to newslists like this one . . .that way, we could get more folks involved in the various car club communities. THANKS! 8)

BW

vtluu
08-29-2005, 11:11 AM
Here's a video of one of the more "memorable" laps of the day: passed an Elise and a GT3. Oh and some kind of Honda Challenge car too (but who cares). :lol: Would have flown around that 350Z too if he'd gotten his hand out more than 10' before pitting in. :roll:

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album297/funlap_small.avi

Bonni, I'll send you a NorCalEvo logo.

Eclipse
08-29-2005, 11:23 AM
It always amazes me a 3200lbs four door will turn inside a 2000lbs two seater. Nice lap. :)

vtluu
08-29-2005, 11:30 AM
It always amazes me a 3200lbs four door will turn inside a 2000lbs two seater. Nice lap. :)
Heheh yeah, I would catch a lot of cars on turn 2; needed the brakes a couple times that lap to avoid buying a Lotus and Porsche. ;) I felt like doing a Jeremy Clarkson (Top Gear) impression and yelling out, "Move over, I am way faster than you!" :lol:

Bonster
08-29-2005, 12:32 PM
It always amazes me a 3200lbs four door will turn inside a 2000lbs two seater. Nice lap. :)

***Does the Elise even weigh that much? I thought they were more like 1800. No matter, the weight:hp ratio is generally more in favor of the Elise. I have been hearing that the Elise is a terrible handler. What a bummer! They are still nice to look at, though. And here's another thumbs up for being able to pass! :D

BW

hagakure
08-29-2005, 12:40 PM
It always amazes me a 3200lbs four door will turn inside a 2000lbs two seater. Nice lap. :)

***Does the Elise even weigh that much? I thought they were more like 1800. No matter, the weight:hp ratio is generally more in favor of the Elise. I have been hearing that the Elise is a terrible handler. What a bummer! They are still nice to look at, though. And here's another thumbs up for being able to pass! :D

BW


The Elise is an amazing handling car in the hands of the right driver. A lot of hardcore Elise drivers were at a Reno-fernley event, and they were damn fast. A lot of the drivers att eh lotus club events have NO intention of taking any chances at all with their cars. Also, the car is oversteer prone, which can be a bane or a bust depending on the skill and driving style of the driver.

Bonster
08-29-2005, 12:47 PM
The Elise is an amazing handling car in the hands of the right driver.

***Ahhh . . . I was waiting for someone to say that! The driver is the number one tool to make a car go fast. Hagakure, you get an A+!!! :D Oh, a friend of mine whom used to race Spec Miata (he retired from racing this past season) said something really cool yesterday . . . he said something like, "Any car is fast if it's put at its limits." I will try and remember that one, for sure.

BW

vtluu
08-29-2005, 01:39 PM
The Elise is a much more difficult and less forgiving car to drive than the Evo. My housemate ran 2:12 (full course) in his at the last Unlimited Laps event (the day after I ran 2:10 (bypass)). Next time we're at the same track event, it's on, baby! :twisted:

We haven't compared datalogs yet but he knows he was sustaining 1.2 Gs in most turns (compared to my 1.1). So probably he was cornering faster but I was catching him in the straights (imagine that).

smack
08-29-2005, 06:33 PM
hey tam,
i hope you mentioned to the guy in the z to get that arm out early. that's a good way to get collected. checking up in the apex that guy behind is trying to get a run at for the main straight. people definately need to know things like that. that's the only way to make the events safer. no need to bash them but they need to know.

looking forward to running t-hill with all the new curbing :D

crctslt
08-29-2005, 07:50 PM
So you are coming out with GGLC on the 13th? I want a SPONSORED BY SMACK sticker on the back of my car too! :twisted:

Bonster
08-29-2005, 09:16 PM
So you are coming out with GGLC on the 13th? I want a SPONSORED BY SMACK sticker on the back of my car too! :twisted:

***What's this bumper sticker you refer to? Sounds kinda fun. I will try to make the GGLC event myself, depending on how much time we have to actually work on MY racecar. I could use the day to test. And if I do go, I'd be glad to help you all out with instruction (limited, obviously . . . but it is worth a shot, ha!). I'm sure I could get a 'freebie' day if I offered to instruct, but I really need to tune this dang racecar by the end of this season. This whole year has been about tuning and fixing problems. Next year it's kick butt time! I'm sick of being a mid-packer . . .

So . . . who else is going to the GGLC? If nothing else, I can just show up to offer my support and cry, wishing I could be playing. It is better to live vicariously than to not live at all, ya know. ;)

BW

crctslt
08-29-2005, 10:03 PM
Smack is a member of the board who had an unfortunate with Methods4 at the poker table last time we went out together. Methods4 sig now reads sponsored by Smack :)

earlyapex
08-29-2005, 10:34 PM
I'm sure I could get a 'freebie' day if I offered to instruct

Hey, I didn't get a 'freebie' day when I instructed at your event!!! :(

I keed! It helped me forget about the horrible 108 degree temp because I spent so much time jumping out of my car and into my students mini cooper to realize how F'in hot it was. 8)

smack
08-30-2005, 10:14 AM
So you are coming out with GGLC on the 13th? I want a SPONSORED BY SMACK sticker on the back of my car too! :twisted:

sounds good to me. i don't think i'm going to run into a boat everytime i have a hand next time.
if nothing else we can go double or nothing for fastest lap :twisted:

Bonster
09-03-2005, 05:57 PM
I'm sure I could get a 'freebie' day if I offered to instruct

Hey, I didn't get a 'freebie' day when I instructed at your event!!! :(

***We haven't really been charging enough to get to give freebies to all of our instructors at each event, but no worries, your day is coming soon. Someday we'll have collected enough profit to spot all of our instructors every time . . . not just half here, half there kinda thing. Don't worry, no good deed goes unnoticed. :)

BW