NCRC at TH Sep 30th, Oct 1st

[Navid@xperformance]

I'm signed up to instruct with NCRC at the end of this month at Thunderhill. It's a Fri-Sat event, but you can sign up for one day. I just signed up, so Dave has not assigned student(s) to me yet. If you want a fellow Evo driver to be your instructor, tell Dave to assign you to me.

--Navid

[SJCoruja]

Aw man! Sign up to instruct on the HPDS event on the 2nd too! :)

[Navid@xperformance]

Aw man! Sign up to instruct on the HPDS event on the 2nd too! :)

Sorry, I can't. I have a new baby and 2 days away is all I can do, even if they'd let me instruct with them.

--Navid

[hagakure]

I'm signed up to instruct with NCRC at the end of this month at Thunderhill. It's a Fri-Sat event, but you can sign up for one day. I just signed up, so Dave has not assigned student(s) to me yet. If you want a fellow Evo driver to be your instructor, tell Dave to assign you to me.

--Navid

Navid,


I will be there next friday. I usually run in high intermediate, but have asked Dave for a check-out to run in the open passing group. He said he would have an instructor do a check out with me. Would you mind riding with me for a session to check me out for a possible move to open passing? If you are busy with anotther student, I understand!:)

Thanks.

Percy

[Navid@xperformance]

Sure, I won't have a student during high-intermediate anyway.

--Navid

[hagakure]

Sure, I won't have a student during high-intermediate anyway.

--Navid

Thaks Navid!

I'll grab you for the 2nd session of High intermediate if that's ok.

Thanks.

Percy

[MarkSAE]

I'm gonna sign up for friday's event. I have a flyer w/ the 33% off new member coupon. :) Has anyone used this coupon before? It says:


This coupon is valid for a 33% event discount for a new NCRC member, and includes free NCRC membership for one year. Please feel free to copy this and give it to your friends and co-workers to help grow the club! They will need the code below when registering.

...

Code: 13452


So current pricing for a one-day event is $280. With a 33% off discount, that's $186.67. It sounds like I don't need to pay the membership fee either. I just want to make sure on the exact amount to send in.

Can you instruct me for a session or two Navid?? ;)

[MarkSAE]

Alright, I just got confirmation from Dave of NCRC that the amount is $186.67 to send in. So I'm all signed up! See you guys there friday!

[Navid@xperformance]

OOPS, as it turned out, I have to be at the shop on Friday :( . I'm still going on Saturday.

--Navid

[hagakure]

OOPS, as it turned out, I have to be at the shop on Friday :( . I'm still going on Saturday.

--Navid


Bummer!

I wanted to do my check out for the open passing group with you...I'll have to grab someone else! Catch you out there some other time Navid.

Percy

[Navid@xperformance]

Bummer!

I wanted to do my check out for the open passing group with you...I'll have to grab someone else! Catch you out there some other time Navid.

Percy

Sorry, I'll catch up with you on Saturday.

--Navid

[MarkSAE]

It's all good Navid. Perhaps I can catch you at a future event. :)

[dohcvtec]

I wish these NCRC events were cheaper. I'm itching to get on track ASAP! :)

[hagakure]

I wish these NCRC events were cheaper. I'm itching to get on track ASAP! :)


Mike,

The Reno-Fernley event on the 22-23 of October will be fairly cheap, at 180.00 for one day, 325.00 for 2. Great new track as well. you should come out to that event.


Percy

[dohcvtec]

I wish these NCRC events were cheaper. I'm itching to get on track ASAP! :)


Mike,

The Reno-Fernley event on the 22-23 of October will be fairly cheap, at 180.00 for one day, 325.00 for 2. Great new track as well. you should come out to that event.


Percy
I am strongly considering going to this event. I'm at a crossroads as to which car to drive out there. I would like to take the Honda because I just now got her back in track ready shape. But, if I do that and my G/F also wants to come, she'll have to follow me up in her car or the Evo. Taking the Evo alone I could fit both of us and all the stuff I bring with me to the track. hmm....

[hagakure]

I wish these NCRC events were cheaper. I'm itching to get on track ASAP! :)


Mike,

The Reno-Fernley event on the 22-23 of October will be fairly cheap, at 180.00 for one day, 325.00 for 2. Great new track as well. you should come out to that event.


Percy
I am strongly considering going to this event. I'm at a crossroads as to which car to drive out there. I would like to take the Honda because I just now got her back in track ready shape. But, if I do that and my G/F also wants to come, she'll have to follow me up in her car or the Evo. Taking the Evo alone I could fit both of us and all the stuff I bring with me to the track. hmm....

Mike,

Take the Evo. this is HIGH SPEED track, a ton of fun. you will enjoy it much more in the long run in the Evo, not to mention the transportation issue. there will be very few cars on the track, just an overall ton of fun.


Percy

[dohcvtec]

Sounds like the decision is obvious then. :)

[MarkSAE]

I had a blast yesterday. Two 20-minute sessions in the morning, then three 25-minute sessions in the afternoon. The track was pretty empty. There were only 5-6 cars in my group on my first session! I logged a total of 120 on-track miles.

My instructor felt I improved enough and let me do the last two sessions by myself. He never knew about the EVO before this and was super impressed with the corner exit speeds. I guess my quaife is doing its' job. ;)

Thanks for taking me out for a few laps in your car Percy and showing me the line the EVO should be driving. I was downshifting to 2nd for turn 11 after watching you do it. Now I wish I had some RA1s!

My stock pads were fading a little bit at the end of the day, but were a lot better this time compared to my previous track event. The ATE fluid made the difference. My front calipers did go from being bright red at the beginning of the day to really dark red at the end of the day. I guess I'm driving my car a lot harder. ;)

I think I should hook up a transponder to my car next time I'm out there to see what my lap times are.

[vtluu]

My housemate upped the ante by running a 2:07 in his Elise. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me next time I go there. 8)

[Evo442]

My housemate upped the ante by running a 2:07 in his Elise. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me next time I go there. 8)

bypass or over the top?

[vtluu]

Bypass. After our respective previous track days, we were tied at around 2:10. He just found 3 seconds. :)

[earlyapex]

My housemate upped the ante by running a 2:07 in his Elise. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me next time I go there. 8)

Finally an Elise that is getting decent times. What exact time was it? 2:07.XX?

What tires is he running now? still the stocker R-compounds?

[MarkSAE]

What tires is he running now? still the stocker R-compounds?

Yeah, he was running the stock advan A048s.

[vtluu]

Yeah, the stock Yokohama R-comps. Don't remember exactly what the time was; I'll have to check the datalogs he sent me.

[hagakure]

Tam's roomate was flying. I had a very dissapointing day, could go no faster than 2:11, though I ran several of those. Missed three sessions due to my car only boosting 10 psi...turned out to be the airbox connection was loose, must have been messing witht he MAF sensor, contributing to lowered boost. Finally duct taped it shut:)

All in all a dissapointing day performance wise, but any day spent at the rwacetrack and not working is a good one! See you guys in Fernley. Should have Muellerized Buddy Clubs by then, hopefully that will make a difference. I cannot seem to sustain any speed in turn 2 with the Robispec set up...I'm not sure what that is about, but I was faster through that turn with the works set-up. I think that lack of suspension travel is definitely an issue with any of the Evo set-ups that rely just on spring upgrades. I believe that David U and I have some of the fastest times of Evos that are not running coilovers to my knowledge...if this is not true someone chime in. Am interested to hear the experience of folks that are just running springs/big rear bar....peace guys.

Percy

[hagakure]

Yeah, the stock Yokohama R-comps. Don't remember exactly what the time was; I'll have to check the datalogs he sent me.

Are AO48's technically R compounds?

[MarkSAE]

They only had a treadwear rating of 60. Isn't that less than the RA1s?

[earlyapex]

I believe that David U and I have some of the fastest times of Evos that are not running coilovers to my knowledge...if this is not true someone chime in. Am interested to hear the experience of folks that are just running springs/big rear bar....peace guys.

I ran a 2:12 with syclone when my evo only had alignment, rear bar, PF pads and discs, turboback and safc.

stock tires, struts and springs.

This is just a point of reference though, I know you have gone faster than 2:11. 8)

You are going to rip when you get a properly set up suspension Percy. :)

[earlyapex]

They only had a treadwear rating of 60. Isn't that less than the RA1s?

RA1's are 100.

[earlyapex]

Are AO48's technically R compounds?

Yup, it's the tire that comes with the sports package on the elise.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+A048

[Cameron@xperformance]

i had a lot of fun today. my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions. he could of gone faster but he was only boosting 1.2bar :? . we think it has a boost leak, but we arent sure from where. he took me out one of his sessions. all i can say is....WOW :lol: . it was my first time on track at speed.

[evo_dadi]

uh oh cameron got a taste of it now :wink: :lol:

[Cameron@xperformance]

uh oh cameron got a taste of it now :wink: :lol: :twisted: hahaha

[hagakure]

I believe that David U and I have some of the fastest times of Evos that are not running coilovers to my knowledge...if this is not true someone chime in. Am interested to hear the experience of folks that are just running springs/big rear bar....peace guys.

I ran a 2:12 with syclone when my evo only had alignment, rear bar, PF pads and discs, turboback and safc.

stock tires, struts and springs.

This is just a point of reference though, I know you have gone faster than 2:11. 8)

You are going to rip when you get a properly set up suspension Percy. :)

Thanks Bryan,

I hope so! At any rate, It will be very interesting to see if the coilover set-up (Muellerized) will make any difference in the short run in my lap times. Driving skill enhancement is still the biggest factor I think! I had a very good coaching session yesterday with Margaret Cheng, and that helped immensely as far as refining my approach to some of the things I'm doing...for instance she noted that I have a tendency to brake too late, and not use the ability of the car to get on the throttle sooner and power through the apex, etc,etc. I need more of this.

Percy

[Richard EVO]

i had a lot of fun today. my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions. he could of gone faster but he was only boosting 1.2bar :? . we think it has a boost leak, but we arent sure from where. he took me out one of his sessions. all i can say is....WOW :lol: . it was my first time on track at speed.

2:02.2 is damn fast. Kent Jordan is leading the SCCA Norcal Region ITE Class by about a gazillion points in his Muellerized EVO, and his best time at T-hill so far is 1:59.9 Does your dad race?

[Cameron@xperformance]

i had a lot of fun today. my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions. he could of gone faster but he was only boosting 1.2bar :? . we think it has a boost leak, but we arent sure from where. he took me out one of his sessions. all i can say is....WOW :lol: . it was my first time on track at speed.

2:02.2 is damn fast. Kent Jordan is leading the SCCA Norcal Region ITE Class by about a gazillion points in his Muellerized EVO, and his best time at T-hill so far is 1:59.9 Does your dad race?
the evo is an autox car right now :wink: . but hes been racing bmw's forever

[earlyapex]

my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions.

I thought your dad has done a 2:00 at thunderhill with the bypass?

[Cameron@xperformance]

my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions.

I thought your dad has done a 2:00 at thunderhill with the bypass?
he has. today was with the cyclone. keep in mind he wasnt at full boost

[earlyapex]

my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions.

I thought your dad has done a 2:00 at thunderhill with the bypass?
he has. today was with the cyclone. keep in mind he wasnt at full boost

Please state what track config when you post times. :)

That said, that's a great time with cyclone. 8)

[Cameron@xperformance]

my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions.

I thought your dad has done a 2:00 at thunderhill with the bypass?
he has. today was with the cyclone. keep in mind he wasnt at full boost
That said, that's a great time with cyclone. 8)
if only the car had full booooost....

[Evo442]

I believe that David U and I have some of the fastest times of Evos that are not running coilovers to my knowledge...if this is not true someone chime in. Am interested to hear the experience of folks that are just running springs/big rear bar....peace guys.

I ran a 2:12 with syclone when my evo only had alignment, rear bar, PF pads and discs, turboback and safc.

stock tires, struts and springs.

This is just a point of reference though, I know you have gone faster than 2:11. 8)

You are going to rip when you get a properly set up suspension Percy. :)

Thanks Bryan,

I hope so! At any rate, It will be very interesting to see if the coilover set-up (Muellerized) will make any difference in the short run in my lap times. Driving skill enhancement is still the biggest factor I think! I had a very good coaching session yesterday with Margaret Cheng, and that helped immensely as far as refining my approach to some of the things I'm doing...for instance she noted that I have a tendency to brake too late, and not use the ability of the car to get on the throttle sooner and power through the apex, etc,etc. I need more of this.

Percy

Yeah, I'm anxious to see what kinds of times you run with the coilovers, Percy. My lap times are still improving, so I'm going to stick with my Robispec setup until things plateau. I mostly need seat time, and some instruction here and there...

I'm hoping to break into the sub 2:10 range before getting coilovers. FWIW, Robi has run a 2:02 with his basic setup.

-david

[Evo442]

i had a lot of fun today. my dad got down to a 2:02.2 in one of his morning sessions. he could of gone faster but he was only boosting 1.2bar :? . we think it has a boost leak, but we arent sure from where. he took me out one of his sessions. all i can say is....WOW :lol: . it was my first time on track at speed.

What mods does your dad have on his car?

[methods4]

What mods does your dad have on his car?

Isn't it a trailer queen with slicks?

[earlyapex]

FWIW, Robi has run a 2:02 with his basic setup.

..and Navid has run 2:00's with DS2500 pads. I know I would fly off turn 10 and turn 14 if I did that.

[earlyapex]

What mods does your dad have on his car?

Let's see if I get this right..

Ohlins
either 5zigen 17x9 with 275 RA'1s or 18x10CCW's with 285 Hoosiers
2980 lbs without driver
6 lb gokart passenger seat
some lighter drivers seat, not sure what brand.
no AC
no ABS (RS)
No seatbelt hardware (harness's)
Custom Vishnu tuned xede with race gas map
Hayward and scott full turbo back
no airbag steering wheel
12lb lightweight battery

I am probalby missing some things... heh

I need to weigh my car now with all the mods and see how many hundreds of pounds heavier it is than Navids. :(

[vtluu]

Let's see if I get this right..
You know a lot... what are you, stalking him? :paranoid:

He now also has the Turbo Hoses intercooler pipes and FMIC (pretty small as far as aftermarket FMICs go). I got used to driving his and mine felt sluggist at auto-x today--felt like it took forever to get on boost compared to his car.

He's also running a catback exhaust that's about 3' long, terminating just behind the driver (exhaust just gets diverted downwards to the ground).

[MarkSAE]

Does he have a cage in his car?

[Cameron@xperformance]

Let's see if I get this right..
You know a lot... what are you, stalking him? :paranoid:
He's also running a catback exhaust that's about 3' long, terminating just behind the driver (exhaust just gets diverted downwards to the ground).
we put the full exhaust on for the track. we also put the stock passenger seat it.

[earlyapex]

Let's see if I get this right..
You know a lot... what are you, stalking him? :paranoid:

I'm not the one in his passenger seat driving out to the middle of Kansas to chase cones. :oops:

[hagakure]

I believe that David U and I have some of the fastest times of Evos that are not running coilovers to my knowledge...if this is not true someone chime in. Am interested to hear the experience of folks that are just running springs/big rear bar....peace guys.

I ran a 2:12 with syclone when my evo only had alignment, rear bar, PF pads and discs, turboback and safc.

stock tires, struts and springs.

This is just a point of reference though, I know you have gone faster than 2:11. 8)

You are going to rip when you get a properly set up suspension Percy. :)

Thanks Bryan,

I hope so! At any rate, It will be very interesting to see if the coilover set-up (Muellerized) will make any difference in the short run in my lap times. Driving skill enhancement is still the biggest factor I think! I had a very good coaching session yesterday with Margaret Cheng, and that helped immensely as far as refining my approach to some of the things I'm doing...for instance she noted that I have a tendency to brake too late, and not use the ability of the car to get on the throttle sooner and power through the apex, etc,etc. I need more of this.

Percy

Yeah, I'm anxious to see what kinds of times you run with the coilovers, Percy. My lap times are still improving, so I'm going to stick with my Robispec setup until things plateau. I mostly need seat time, and some instruction here and there...

I'm hoping to break into the sub 2:10 range before getting coilovers. FWIW, Robi has run a 2:02 with his basic setup.

-david


I really have a hard time believing that Robi ran 2:02 on the exact same set-up as you and I have on RA-1's....I might be wrong, but it's hard to believe. this set-up is DEFINITELY slower for me through turn 2, which is a problem at t-hill. Maybe Robi is running crazy negative camber in the front and 888's or hoosiers. 265 hoosiers would make a 3 second difference for both of us, which would put us in the 2:05, 2:06 range...so, I doubt the set-up is EXACTLY what we have. Also, Robi has about 100+ more Horsepower than we do, as well as limited slip...so, no, it's not the same set-up!:)

Percy

[vtluu]

I'm not the one in his passenger seat driving out to the middle of Kansas to chase cones. :oops:
I'll have you know, Topeka is on the very eastern edge of Kansas, not the middle. :nana:

So Navid ran a 2:02, full course, with only about 17 psi of boost too, so making much less power than any of you. What's your excuse now? ;)

[hagakure]

I'm not the one in his passenger seat driving out to the middle of Kansas to chase cones. :oops:
I'll have you know, Topeka is on the very eastern edge of Kansas, not the middle. :nana:

So Navid ran a 2:02, full course, with only about 17 psi of boost too, so making much less power than any of you. What's your excuse now? ;)

Navid is CLEARLY a much better driver than anyone on this board, possibly than anyone driving an Evo, with the possible exception of a few people like P. Gerrard, etc....so no excuses whatsoever from THIS member of the peanut gallery. But, I'm not sure that even at 17 PSI Navid's car has less power than our WORKS powered cars. Just a supposition on my part, and not a slam against Works, as the cars are safe, and fairly torquey, but not immensely powerful in TR303 or TR-340 guise. It's obvious that driving ability plays a big part in all of this, but there are also millions of other variables in place. For instance I've gone 2:08 pver the bypass now...how much faster would I have gone with 285 Hoosiers vs. RA-1's, limited slip differential, Ohlins, etc? Maybe not faster at all, or maybe 3-4 seconds faster which would have put me at 2:04-2:05. Would that make me only a 3 second worse driver than Navid? Absolutely not. He would destroy any of us in a race....so, it's all speculation, our own egos, and boy's needs to bench race and kvetch...but it's all in good fun bros! :wink:

[earlyapex]

So Navid ran a 2:02, full course, with only about 17 psi of boost too, so making much less power than any of you. What's your excuse now? ;)

I never made excuses to Navid being faster than me. Hell, he's a freaking pro race driver.

But if you want me to make excuses.. ok..

I have $1200 toy coilovers, he has $3,000+ ohlins
I have approx 300lbs more weight.
He has way more tire and wheel than me.
I'm not a pro race car driver.

17psi in a 2980lb car is probably about the same power to weight ratio of having 21psi in my 3300lb car.

Want anymore excuses?

[vtluu]

I'm more interested in hearing why you think Navid is faster than Robi. 8)

[Navid@xperformance]

Let's see if I get this right..

Ohlins
either 5zigen 17x9 with 275 RA'1s or 18x10CCW's with 285 Hoosiers
2980 lbs without driver
6 lb gokart passenger seat
some lighter drivers seat, not sure what brand.
no AC
no ABS (RS)
No seatbelt hardware (harness's)
Custom Vishnu tuned xede with race gas map
Hayward and scott full turbo back
no airbag steering wheel
12lb lightweight battery

I am probalby missing some things... heh

I need to weigh my car now with all the mods and see how many hundreds of pounds heavier it is than Navids. :(

That’s very impressive, but you forgot my Evo 7 taillights :lol: . I put the stock passenger seat in since I want to give rides to people and the gokart seat was not safe for track use (I have actually given rides in it at autoxes. :shock: ) The exhaust is also back on since I do drive it on the street. However, whenever I am competing, I trailer the car there. I hear it’s good for at least 10 seconds a lap at Thunderhill, with the bypass of course :lol: . I have never been on RA1’s. I run Kumho v710 in the dry and Hoosier wets in the rain. I did try Hoosier A3S05’s on track once but never again. They are autox compound and last 3 laps before they cord.

--Navid

[earlyapex]

I'm more interested in hearing why you think Navid is faster than Robi. 8)

If you dig in the archives I said that same thing awhile ago when Navid ran his 2:00. ehhe.

Bizzilon less mods but just as fast.

I just want to make it clear right now that I think Navid is very fast and , even though I have not met him, he seems like a world class guy when it comes to helping people and being involved. I have absolutly NOTHING against him what so ever.

I am just currently using him as a benchmark. 8)

[Evo442]

I really have a hard time believing that Robi ran 2:02 on the exact same set-up as you and I have on RA-1's....I might be wrong, but it's hard to believe. this set-up is DEFINITELY slower for me through turn 2, which is a problem at t-hill. Maybe Robi is running crazy negative camber in the front and 888's or hoosiers. 265 hoosiers would make a 3 second difference for both of us, which would put us in the 2:05, 2:06 range...so, I doubt the set-up is EXACTLY what we have. Also, Robi has about 100+ more Horsepower than we do, as well as limited slip...so, no, it's not the same set-up!:)

Percy

No, clearly he did not make that time with the exact same car, just with that suspension setup. Clearly Robi's car is heavily modded beyond our cars; lightened, CF doors, LSD, lots of HP etc.

My point is there is still room for me to drop my lap times before graduating to coilovers. I'm finally eliminating some variables in my setup, and am finding tires/ tire pressures/ brake pads, etc that I like and am comfortable with, so I'm hoping to keep using my budget setup while I finalize some other details. Dont want to change too many things at once, and I do think there is still room for me to grow with the Robispec budget setup.

Athough, I must admit if you find a dramatic change in your lap times, I may get so jealous I'll HAVE to get some coilovers! :D


-david

[earlyapex]

My point is there is still room for me to drop my lap times before graduating to coilovers. I'm finally eliminating some variables in my setup, and am finding tires/ tire pressures/ brake pads, etc that I like and am comfortable with, so I'm hoping to keep using my budget setup while I finalize some other details.

David, I think that's a good plan.

I am actually kickin around the idea of putting my stock bilsteins back on. :shock:

[hagakure]

I really have a hard time believing that Robi ran 2:02 on the exact same set-up as you and I have on RA-1's....I might be wrong, but it's hard to believe. this set-up is DEFINITELY slower for me through turn 2, which is a problem at t-hill. Maybe Robi is running crazy negative camber in the front and 888's or hoosiers. 265 hoosiers would make a 3 second difference for both of us, which would put us in the 2:05, 2:06 range...so, I doubt the set-up is EXACTLY what we have. Also, Robi has about 100+ more Horsepower than we do, as well as limited slip...so, no, it's not the same set-up!:)

Percy

No, clearly he did not make that time with the exact same car, just with that suspension setup. Clearly Robi's car is heavily modded beyond our cars; lightened, CF doors, LSD, lots of HP etc.

My point is there is still room for me to drop my lap times before graduating to coilovers. I'm finally eliminating some variables in my setup, and am finding tires/ tire pressures/ brake pads, etc that I like and am comfortable with, so I'm hoping to keep using my budget setup while I finalize some other details. Dont want to change too many things at once, and I do think there is still room for me to grow with the Robispec budget setup.

Athough, I must admit if you find a dramatic change in your lap times, I may get so jealous I'll HAVE to get some coilovers! :D


-david


Well,

We'll see. I'd be happy with a few seconds, and most of all dynamic consistency, predictability, and grip. I'm also thinking of moving back down to 255 RA-1's shaved. The sidewall of the 275's on the 9 inch wheel is a little sloppy, but it will be interesting to see how the muellerized set-up, with the requisite allignment will affect this as well...so the tweaking and spending continues!

Percy

[hagakure]

My point is there is still room for me to drop my lap times before graduating to coilovers. I'm finally eliminating some variables in my setup, and am finding tires/ tire pressures/ brake pads, etc that I like and am comfortable with, so I'm hoping to keep using my budget setup while I finalize some other details.

David, I think that's a good plan.

I am actually kickin around the idea of putting my stock bilsteins back on. :shock:


So Bryan,

Do you think I'm about to waste my money? I acutally have toyed with the idea of purchasing a quiafe instead, but it would cost the same money after install here in norcal, as there is no one in norcal that will chrge less than 700.00 or so to put it in. Also though about more power, which I feel I need desperately every time I go out with you guys and everyone is just LEAVING me on the straights...so though about WR turbo, etc.....but then again, I also feel like the suspension is severely limited. I would be interested in seeing some back to back testing of stock MR suspension vs. The Espelir GT set-up with the same driver. It is a fact that we ARE running out of suspension travel though, and I have a hard tme seeing how that can be a fast way around a race course. I'm not wanting to just throw money off a clif, but I would like to get the car somewhat sorted, and I feel like I keep throwing compromises at the situation. When I factor in the previous works suspension, with their camber plates and pillow ball mounts, and now the new espelir GT springs, I have alsready spent 1/2 the amount for the Muellerized set-up, installed and alligend! If I had to do it over I would have gone with the correct coilover set-up months ago. And no, none of this discounts the fact that you can ALWAYS become a better driver.


Percy

[Navid@xperformance]

I just want to throw this in since you guys are comparing times and mods:

The first few mods, whatever they may be, will yield you the most amount of advantage. As you spend more money and do more to the car the advantage gain tapers off. If you sit there and subtract a number of seconds for each mod you could have had, pretty soon you’ll reach a theoretical 1:30 lap time at Thunderhill.

Driving ability also works the same way. In your first year or two of track driving, you can shave up to 10-20 seconds off your laptimes. Going from 2:20 to 2:10 maybe very easy, but going from 2:10 to 2:00 may take years. At the very top of this sport the difference between drivers is measured by a fractions of seconds.

--Navid

[hagakure]

I just want to throw this in since you guys are comparing times and mods:

The first few mods, whatever they may be, will yield you the most amount of advantage. As you spend more money and do more to the car the advantage gain tapers off. If you sit there and subtract a number of seconds for each mod you could have had, pretty soon you’ll reach a theoretical 1:30 lap time at Thunderhill.

Driving ability also works the same way. In your first year or two of track driving, you can shave up to 10-20 seconds off your laptimes. Going from 2:20 to 2:10 maybe very easy, but going from 2:10 to 2:00 may take years. At the very top of this sport the difference between drivers is measured by a fractions of seconds.
--Navid


So Navid,

Given the above analysis, do you feel that I'm wasting $$ by going to a coilover set-up at this time? Should I just keep driving on what I have untill it is abundantly clear that I can_go_no_faster? I think that part of the problem that I am having is that FEEL seems to be improtant to me, and the set-up still feels sloppy to me, in fact sloppier the faster I get.....so, some objective feedback is appreciated!

Percy

[earlyapex]

Navid has a good point,

How long have you been open-tracking Percy? David?

Going on my 4th year now.

last 2 years seriously.

about 3 years autocrossing and a ton of indoor karting as well. Honestly, I can't tell you how much indoor karting really helped my open tracking. It really did, karting is ALL about proper driving technique since they are so low powered.

I still remember when I was jumping with joy running 2:16's at thill with cyclone. hehe

[Navid@xperformance]

So Navid,

Given the above analysis, do you feel that I'm wasting $$ by going to a coilover set-up at this time? Should I just keep driving on what I have untill it is abundantly clear that I can_go_no_faster? I think that part of the problem that I am having is that FEEL seems to be improtant to me, and the set-up still feels sloppy to me, in fact sloppier the faster I get.....so, some objective feedback is appreciated!

Percy

The stock class in SCCA is limited to the stock springs, but the shocks are open. I have seen cars with stock springs and triple-adjustble Penske's run rings around cars with "coilover" suspensions. Coilovers give you the ability to adjust height, otherwise they are just a more aggressive set of springs and dampers. It is more important that you get a good quality set of dampers than it is to get "coilovers". If you can get both in the same package, then you can corner-weigh and balance the car also.

I would spend the money on the suspension rather than Quaife or any power mods. The stock turbo is plenty good.

--Navid

[hagakure]

Navid has a good point,

How long have you been open-tracking Percy? David?

Going on my 4th year now.

last 2 years seriously.

about 3 years autocrossing and a ton of indoor karting as well. Honestly, I can't tell you how much indoor karting really helped my open tracking. It really did, karting is ALL about proper driving technique since they are so low powered.

I still remember when I was jumping with joy running 2:16's at thill with cyclone. hehe


Well,

I've only been open tracking not even a year. I hear and understand the rationale. But then again, although David and I have both only been open tracking a year, we have both gone sub 2:10 at T-hill with the bypass....so, the progression is fairly good. I agree with supplementing driving skill in any way possible, that's why I will be Karting indoor in a league all winter at RPM in sacramento for example, and getting coaching when the season starts.

P

[hagakure]

So Navid,

Given the above analysis, do you feel that I'm wasting $$ by going to a coilover set-up at this time? Should I just keep driving on what I have untill it is abundantly clear that I can_go_no_faster? I think that part of the problem that I am having is that FEEL seems to be improtant to me, and the set-up still feels sloppy to me, in fact sloppier the faster I get.....so, some objective feedback is appreciated!

Percy

The stock class in SCCA is limited to the stock springs, but the shocks are open. I have seen cars with stock springs and triple-adjustble Penske's run rings around cars with "coilover" suspensions. Coilovers give you the ability to adjust height, otherwise they are just a more aggressive set of springs and dampers. It is more important that you get a good quality set of dampers than it is to get "coilovers". If you can get both in the same package, then you can corner-weigh and balance the car also.

I would spend the money on the suspension rather than Quaife or any power mods. The stock turbo is plenty good.

--Navid


Agreed about the dampers vs. Springs Navid, but triple adjustable Penskes would cost MORE than a set of Muellerized Buddy Clubs, for example. the Buddy club set-up by Mueller is 2350.00, set-up, installed, and alligned.....

Percy

[hagakure]

You know, it's good to get feedback, but I think in the end analysis, I've got to go with my gut. I really believe I can go 3 seconds faster with the correct suspension, and I'm going to have Mueller set me up as planned, with no vacilation. At the very worse, the car WILL handle better than it does now. I understand what Navid is saying about dampning, but the stock struts ARE NOT up to the job. So, foolish or not, I'm making the investment while at the same time strenghening my committment to become the best driver I can, with an eye on racing within two years. the more good coaching I can get the better. I had a fantastic coaching session with Margaret Cheng at the last NCRC event that pointed out a number of small technical flaws in my driving that can and will be corrected in my next outing out. I believe that this is something I can do well, and having the correct equipment can only help. If there were some conjecture over whether or not the RRC set-up is as good as the espelir springs and stock struts, it would be another matter, but I don't think anyone, not even robi, is suggesting this.

Percy

[earlyapex]

I've only been open tracking not even a year. I hear and understand the rationale. But then again, although David and I have both only been open tracking a year, we have both gone sub 2:10 at T-hill with the bypass....so, the progression is fairly good.

I think you're ripping then. It took me longer than that.

[hagakure]

I've only been open tracking not even a year. I hear and understand the rationale. But then again, although David and I have both only been open tracking a year, we have both gone sub 2:10 at T-hill with the bypass....so, the progression is fairly good.

I think you're ripping then. It took me longer than that.


thanks man. working hard on it.....Most fun I've ever had doing, well almost... :twisted:....Anything! Looking forward to seeing all you guys at Reno. I truly enjoy the camraderie as well. Peace.

Percy

[methods4]

I've only been open tracking not even a year. I hear and understand the rationale. But then again, although David and I have both only been open tracking a year, we have both gone sub 2:10 at T-hill with the bypass....so, the progression is fairly good.

I think you're ripping then. It took me longer than that.

Definitely moving up fast. I remember only 2 or 3 events ago when you were running mid 2:20s on Hoosiers. Huuuge improvement. I look forward in *attempting* to stay ahead. It will be fun.

[hagakure]

Well,

I really appreciate the community that has grown off this board, as there are several of us that are sincerely interested in motorsport. I hope that we can keep the energy, camraderie and spirit of friendly, andit is very friendly, competition alive. this is so different from when I was racing bicycles. It was deathly competitive in the wrong way, and bikies tend to be ....well, dicks. But you guys ahve all been encouraging, and helpful, and it makes it that much easier to approach a difficult undertaking, so, it's all good. Looking forward tot he day when norcalevo can campaign a few cars int he 25 hours of t-hill:). Maybe the 12 hours would be a start!



Percy

[dohcvtec]

Percy,
Remember, if you ever need a driver for the Enduro, I'm there for you! We should do it, have us NorCalEvo.net track whores drive an Evo in the 12 or 25 hour. I know we have some very capable drivers, excluding methods4 of course ;) . And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)

[Evo442]

Navid has a good point,

How long have you been open-tracking Percy? David?

Going on my 4th year now.


My first track event was Feb 26th of this year, and so I'm reasonably pleased that I've dipped below 2:10 w/ the bypass at Thill by this point in the year. I'm not on as steep a learning curve as Percy is and do not have current plans to get a racing license etc.

I'm pretty happy with the bang for the buck that I got out of my suspension setup, am looking at a Quaife next or possibly a turbo upgrad (as per my other post.) We'll see.

Navid makes a bunch of good points.

-david

[earlyapex]

And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/wonderdog.jpg

[methods4]

Well,

I really appreciate the community that has grown off this board, as there are several of us that are sincerely interested in motorsport. I hope that we can keep the energy, camraderie and spirit of friendly, andit is very friendly, competition alive. this is so different from when I was racing bicycles. It was deathly competitive in the wrong way, and bikies tend to be ....well, dicks. But you guys ahve all been encouraging, and helpful, and it makes it that much easier to approach a difficult undertaking, so, it's all good. Looking forward tot he day when norcalevo can campaign a few cars int he 25 hours of t-hill:). Maybe the 12 hours would be a start!



Percy

Percy, we're not doing the 25hr in an Evo......*cough*Radical*cough* :twisted:

[methods4]

Percy,
Remember, if you ever need a driver for the Enduro, I'm there for you! We should do it, have us NorCalEvo.net track whores drive an Evo in the 12 or 25 hour. I know we have some very capable drivers, excluding methods4 of course ;) . And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)

http://tinyurl.com/7f23j

[hagakure]

And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/wonderdog.jpg


That picture almost made me choke!!!


Percy :lol:

[methods4]

My first track event was Feb 26th of this year, and so I'm reasonably pleased that I've dipped below 2:10 w/ the bypass at Thill by this point in the year. I'm not on as steep a learning curve as Percy is and do not have current plans to get a racing license etc.

I'm pretty happy with the bang for the buck that I got out of my suspension setup, am looking at a Quaife next or possibly a turbo upgrad (as per my other post.) We'll see.

Navid makes a bunch of good points.

-david

I don't care what Earlyapesex says about you, you're doing great as well David. Glad to see you at the same events I'm at too.

[hagakure]

Percy,
Remember, if you ever need a driver for the Enduro, I'm there for you! We should do it, have us NorCalEvo.net track whores drive an Evo in the 12 or 25 hour. I know we have some very capable drivers, excluding methods4 of course ;) . And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)


I really want to run that enduro...we'll see what type of car it will be.... :twisted:

[earlyapex]

I don't care what Earlyapesex says about you, you're doing great as well David. Glad to see you at the same events I'm at too.

uggh. I meant David as well when I said you guys are doing great for how you two are still new to open tracking.

Tony, I like your new dress:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/dog_leia.jpg

[methods4]

uggh. I meant David as well when I said you guys are doing great for how you two are still new to open tracking.

Well, I meant about the other stuff you said about him offline. Don't worry David, I smacked him around a little and put him in his place.

:instigator: http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/fruit.gif

[dohcvtec]

Percy,
Remember, if you ever need a driver for the Enduro, I'm there for you! We should do it, have us NorCalEvo.net track whores drive an Evo in the 12 or 25 hour. I know we have some very capable drivers, excluding methods4 of course ;) . And who the hell said earlyapex is a nice guy? :)

http://tinyurl.com/7f23j
too skurred to click tinyurl at work :shock:

[earlyapex]

Tony, when did you get a new hat?

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/dodge_bighat.jpg

[methods4]

Hey Bryan,

Where did you get your cool new dance moves?

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/tony/forum/1haf1_1.gif

[Evo442]

My point is there is still room for me to drop my lap times before graduating to coilovers. I'm finally eliminating some variables in my setup, and am finding tires/ tire pressures/ brake pads, etc that I like and am comfortable with, so I'm hoping to keep using my budget setup while I finalize some other details.

David, I think that's a good plan.

I am actually kickin around the idea of putting my stock bilsteins back on. :shock:

Would be interesting to see what your lap times do...

[Evo442]

uggh. I meant David as well when I said you guys are doing great for how you two are still new to open tracking.

Well, I meant about the other stuff you said about him offline. Don't worry David, I smacked him around a little and put him in his place.

:instigator: http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/fruit.gif

1. Thanks Tony! :thumbsup:

2. Damn you guys post stuff fast... I cant keep up!

3. Percy - get the Muellerized Buddy Clubs. Sounds like a good price, and I think you're set on the idea, so give it a try. I dont think anyone is saying that you'll be slower with that setup, its just a matter of how much faster! I think that if you stick with the Robispec setup now, you'll be wondering how much faster you could be every time you went out on the track...

4. Would be a lot of fun to see what somewhat like Navid could do in my car to give me and idea of what could be done with my setup... Navid??

I've been kicking myself to no end that my lap timer wasn't working when Randy Pobst drove my car at Thill. Part of the reason why I'm sticking with the Robispec setup is that Pobst was so comlimentary about my setup and car that day. I asked him point blank if there was anything that he would change (suspension wise), and he said "no, nothing at all".
I dont think he was just being nice, he was quite a bit less complementary about the setups of a couple of Porches there that day.

-david

[Cameron@xperformance]

[I've been kicking myself to no end that my lap timer wasn't working when Randy Pobst drove my car at Thill. Part of the reason why I'm sticking with the Robispec setup is that Pobst was so comlimentary about my setup and car that day. I asked him point blank if there was anything that he would change (suspension wise), and he said "no, nothing at all".
I dont think he was just being nice, he was quite a bit less complementary about the setups of a couple of Porches there that day.

-david
randy pobst drove your car!!! :rockon:

[Evo442]

uggh. I meant David as well when I said you guys are doing great for how you two are still new to open tracking.



Thx. I appreciate everyone's input - I've definitely benefitted from the experience of others; esp Earlyapex, Methods, Haga...