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SouthernCrane
10-05-2005, 08:46 PM
Anyone see this or have any idea if the release date has changed? Looks like the guy had only one, and it does not show up on the DSMlink website.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=162512

I have heard only good things about this produt from the DSM guys on EvoM, have any here used it on their DSM? What did you think about it (likes/dislikes, strengths/weaknesses)?

MarkSAE
10-05-2005, 08:53 PM
I had it in my 98 GSX. For what it was, it was pretty powerful. It's basically an AFC that doesn't affect timing and also an ITC (ignition timing controller). So timing and a/f adjustments can be made independently of each other. While not as fast as an AFC, changes can be made a lot faster than flashing an ECU. The datalogging capabilities beats any OBDII logger as it can read timing retard due to knock.

Tom and Dave are constantly making improvements to their products and adding more and more features. One of my favorite features was the warning lights. You can set the CEL to flash at you if you get too much timing retard due to knock.

crctslt
10-05-2005, 11:03 PM
Got it, use it , love it. I have seen DSM link made to work in an Evo with the DSM '95 ECU FWIW.

earlyapex
10-05-2005, 11:07 PM
I have seen DSM link made to work in an Evo with the DSM '95 ECU FWIW.

I'm not putting any DSM part on my EVO, I can tell you that. :lol:

trinydex
11-25-2005, 04:43 AM
i know the guy running dsm link... it's a pretty powerful system, it's aem short of maf removal. might also wanna look into maf trans pro, that allows you to remove the maf.

there is no direct fitment for evo, so you find a 2g ecu and splice the approriate wires. i wouldn't do it... but there are those out there that like it. it's very similar to utec and utec has the proper fitments for evo.

Yuh
11-25-2005, 12:27 PM
it's very powerful. I won't go into details because most newbie evo "tuners" won't know a thing or two about tuning other than pulling out their wallets. It's a system very simlar to uberdata.

Dsmlink is a ongoing improvment process with that ecu thanks to the community and it being open source. It's not a pos piggyback, so don't confuse it with a SAFC or e-manage. It's actually in a gray area between standalone and some form of engine management, because you're actually adjusting the ecu readings, not intercepting the signals.

It logs knock, almost every aftermarket wideband, adjusts for bigger fuel injectors for perfect idle, adjusts timing/fuel/air, clears any ecu codes (can disable ecu codes thrown for smog stuff), and more. It has multiple 5v inputs, so you can log any electronic gauge your heart desires. I personally find logging my 60mm greddy gauge very handy.

If i had a 05 evo or lower, i'd install it in a heartbeat. I'm uncertain of the mivec system affecting the 9, along with it having a different wiring harness, so i'm holding out for now.

earlyapex... i uh.. have fun with your 1000 dollar vishnu /dynoflash "flash"... rofl
:roll:

btw, you can remove your maf with dsmlink, but you do need some kind of hotwire type system that installs in your intercooler pipe along with something called the GM MAF translator. It converts the GM signals to karmen vortex signals. The dsmlink guys have seen a 2lb/min gain with it installed because it's a lot less restrictive than those bloody honeycombs. It's not a very popular mod for the evo guys yet, but they'll get there.

earlyapex
11-25-2005, 12:40 PM
earlyapex... i uh.. have fun with your 1000 dollar vishnu /dynoflash "flash"... rofl
:roll:


Oh awesome, I don't have either of those, I am using something that does all the crap you just mentioned and more and cost's hundreds less than whatever you thought I might have had. MAS removal and GM MAF support, OBD2 reading, logging, road dyno, injector scaling, idle smoothing, knock reading and control, timing control, 4 fuel loads at 250rpms each, can log WB, Boost, EGT, yada yada yada yada.

Only thing it doesn't do is have to ghetto mcgyver a 2G ECU into a EVO and doesn't write to the rom.

Do a search on me and you will also see I am making more power than most with only 3 power mods.

Not to say DSM link isn't powerful or great, but just let me know when the non-ghetto solution comes out for the evo.

I'm far from being a 4G63 "newbie" tuner, been tuning them for 7+ years.

Toodles. :oops:

Yuh
11-25-2005, 12:51 PM
Oh awesome, I don't have either of those, I am using something that does all the crap you just mentioned and more and cost's hundreds less. MAS removal and GM MAF support, OBD2 reading, logging, road dyno, injector scaling, idle smoothing, knock reading and control, timing control, 4 fuel loads at 250rpms each, can log WB, Boost, EGT, yada yada yada yada.

Only thing it doesn't do is have to ghetto mcgyver a 2G ECU into a EVO and doesn't write to the rom.

I paid about 800 total for it all with ecu. I don't think it's that much considering it's not a POS piggyback, which if you're using is more of a mcgyver mod than anything i know... rofl

It rewrites some of the ecu transfer and allows you to log/modify info... I don't quite understand what you mean by "ghetto" when exede / safcs/emanages do worse?



I'm far from being a 4G63 "newbie" tuner, been tuning them for 7+ years.

never said you were
And don't tell me your 3 power mods are I/E/H ... lol jp

and i don't really care to search and stalk you.

earlyapex
11-25-2005, 12:56 PM
I paid about 800 total for it all with ecu. I don't think it's that much considering it's not a POS piggyback, which if you're using is more of a mcgyver mod than anything i know... rofl

It rewrites some of the ecu transfer and allows you to log/modify info... I don't quite understand what you mean by "ghetto" when exede / safcs/emanages do worse?


I meant cost's hundreds less than what you thought I had.

You attacked me without doing any homework so I returned the favor. 8)

ez76
11-25-2005, 12:57 PM
Dsmlink is a ongoing improvment process with that ecu thanks to the community

So it's a two chip solution? One in the ECU and one on your shoulder?

earlyapex
11-25-2005, 12:58 PM
And don't tell me your 3 power mods are I/E/H ... lol jp


Now honestly do you really think I would be doing that with my history?

turboback / ecu management / mbc

injectors and FP as supporting mods.

earlyapex
11-25-2005, 01:00 PM
Dsmlink is a ongoing improvment process with that ecu thanks to the community

So it's a two chip solution? One in the ECU and one on your shoulder?

rotfl! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yuh
11-25-2005, 01:00 PM
Dsmlink is a ongoing improvment process with that ecu thanks to the community

So it's a two chip solution? One in the ECU and one on your shoulder?

uh is somebody offended by my newbie statement? :lol:

MarkSAE
11-25-2005, 01:01 PM
How does DSMLink control the fuel pump relay on the EVO?

Yuh
11-25-2005, 01:08 PM
How does DSMLink control the fuel pump relay on the EVO?

Evo harness -> 95 ECU

22 ->  8 Swaps Fuel pump relay and AC relay control
 8 -> 22

10 -> 23 Inverts coil control for proper firing order
23 -> 10

32 -> 20 Moves condensor fan control to ECU
34 -> 21

There's more, but for anyone planning this: You will lose your immobilizer because you're not going to use your stock ecu anymore. BTW, it uses the same harneses, so it's plug and play, with exception of those wires.

trinydex
11-25-2005, 03:31 PM
earlyapex... i uh.. have fun with your 1000 dollar vishnu /dynoflash "flash"... rofl
:roll:


Oh awesome, I don't have either of those, I am using something that does all the crap you just mentioned and more and cost's hundreds less than whatever you thought I might have had. MAS removal and GM MAF support, OBD2 reading, logging, road dyno, injector scaling, idle smoothing, knock reading and control, timing control, 4 fuel loads at 250rpms each, can log WB, Boost, EGT, yada yada yada yada.

Only thing it doesn't do is have to ghetto mcgyver a 2G ECU into a EVO and doesn't write to the rom.

Do a search on me and you will also see I am making more power than most with only 3 power mods.

Not to say DSM link isn't powerful or great, but just let me know when the non-ghetto solution comes out for the evo.

I'm far from being a 4G63 "newbie" tuner, been tuning them for 7+ years.

Toodles. :oops:

ok this is the best riddle ever, i'm sorry i don't frequent nce too much... what are you running?

you also lose function of a few other things mentioned in the evom post. intercooler sprayer among other knick nacks.

earlyapex
11-25-2005, 08:08 PM
ok this is the best riddle ever, i'm sorry i don't frequent nce too much... what are you running?

you also lose function of a few other things mentioned in the evom post. intercooler sprayer among other knick nacks.

ECU Plus
http://www.ecuplus.com/

Intercooler sprayer is useless anyway and I don't even have that on my car, it's an 05.

Yuh
11-26-2005, 01:48 AM
ok this is the best riddle ever, i'm sorry i don't frequent nce too much... what are you running?

you also lose function of a few other things mentioned in the evom post. intercooler sprayer among other knick nacks.

ECU Plus
http://www.ecuplus.com/

Intercooler sprayer is useless anyway and I don't even have that on my car, it's an 05.

hah, i was here thinking you might have a haltech, autornix, aem, or electromotive ecu or something hardcore... but then again i highly doubt it'll cost less than 800.

So I guess a dsmlink (which is a bolt on since the harnesses are the same & a non-piggyback, because it doesnt use the stock ecu) is a mcgyver mod b/c ecuplus supplies its own harness, lol. It seems to me like ecuplus is exactly like the emanage ultimate. It's a descent tuning tool, i like it. But whatever floats your boat.

egui42
11-26-2005, 11:45 AM
ok this is the best riddle ever, i'm sorry i don't frequent nce too much... what are you running?

you also lose function of a few other things mentioned in the evom post. intercooler sprayer among other knick nacks.

ECU Plus
http://www.ecuplus.com/

Intercooler sprayer is useless anyway and I don't even have that on my car, it's an 05.

hah, i was here thinking you might have a haltech, autornix, aem, or electromotive ecu or something hardcore... but then again i highly doubt it'll cost less than 800.

So I guess a dsmlink (which is a bolt on since the harnesses are the same & a non-piggyback, because it doesnt use the stock ecu) is a mcgyver mod b/c ecuplus supplies its own harness, lol. It seems to me like ecuplus is exactly like the emanage ultimate. It's a descent tuning tool, i like it. But whatever floats your boat.

Stop picking fights Yuh, your wrong! LOL!!! :lol:

vtluu
11-26-2005, 12:23 PM
I personally don't care if a solution is "ghetto" or not, I'm just interested in results. I actually think using a DSM ECU--which is more easily reprogrammed--is a great idea. I wondered a few months back if it could be done, and the concensus I heard was that it was too complicated to make work. Apparently it's not?

What's particularly interesting to me is that with a 2G ECU with a socketed PROM, I'd be able to fully reprogram the ECU. Not just change maps, but actually modify the instruction code for the ECU itself. My buddy Nick has done this for his GVR4 (in fact in the past he's sold PROM chips to RRE I think). If you can reprogram the ECU in this way, you can potentially add whatever feature the ECU is physically capable of.

I don't think of it as a "ghetto" solution; I think of it as a full replacement ECU/EMS, and the fact that it happens to come from a 2G DSM is just incidental (and convenient, apparently). As long as it works reliably and has all the features I need--and costs less than other solutions--I think it's great.

Yuh
11-26-2005, 12:33 PM
I personally don't care if a solution is "ghetto" or not, I'm just interested in results. I actually think using a DSM ECU--which is more easily reprogrammed--is a great idea. I wondered a few months back if it could be done, and the concensus I heard was that it was too complicated to make work. Apparently it's not?

What's particularly interesting to me is that with a 2G ECU with a socketed PROM, I'd be able to fully reprogram the ECU. Not just change maps, but actually modify the instruction code for the ECU itself. My buddy Nick has done this for his GVR4 (in fact in the past he's sold PROM chips to RRE I think). If you can reprogram the ECU in this way, you can potentially add whatever feature the ECU is physically capable of.

I don't think of it as a "ghetto" solution; I think of it as a full replacement ECU/EMS, and the fact that it happens to come from a 2G DSM is just incidental (and convenient, apparently). As long as it works reliably and has all the features I need--and costs less than other solutions--I think it's great.

Agreed. I'm thinking of doing something similar but it will deal with the automatic transmission unit computer for my senior project. So it's a independent user programmable tcu with safety downshift points, ect. And the great thing about the 95 EEPROM that nobody's catching onto is... it not only works with evos and dsms. Any mitsu with the same harness can retrofited to be used on their car. Of course if you're the first, have fun pioneering it.

And egui42, give me your shift knob!! lol

turbotiger
11-26-2005, 04:22 PM
So I guess a dsmlink (which is a bolt on since the harnesses are the same & a non-piggyback, because it doesnt use the stock ecu) is a mcgyver mod b/c ecuplus supplies its own harness, lol. It seems to me like ecuplus is exactly like the emanage ultimate. It's a descent tuning tool, i like it. But whatever floats your boat.

I think he's saying it's a mcgyver mod because nowhere in the dsmlink website does it say it supports a evo 8. Is it even officially supported? There's nothing wrong with piggyback systems, as long as you are aware of it's limitations. Same with a ECU replacement like the dsmlink. Does not come anywhere close to the true standalone ECU replacements in terms of features, and probably never will due to the basic design, but definitely worth the money.

ez76
11-26-2005, 05:25 PM
DSMLink is slick, can't take anything away from it. I like the passion of its developer community; the spirit of improvement. Can't get that passionate about an S-AFC2 or an MBC!

But I think at the point when a "POS piggyback" possesses more computational power and functionality than the stock ECU, it's time to rethink old notions of piggyback limitations.

Much like DSMLink blurs the line between ECU replacement and stand-alone, there are tuning devices out there now that outcompute the ECU to the point that the line between piggyback and standalone is also blurred. And some of the most interesting piggybacks even start to make standalones seem relatively primitive.

SouthernCrane
11-26-2005, 05:26 PM
There's more, but for anyone planning this: You will lose your immobilizer because you're not going to use your stock ecu anymore.

I like the immobilizer feature, but how easy is it to defeat on the stock ECU? If it is easy, then i would not care about losing the feature.

trinydex
11-26-2005, 06:20 PM
So I guess a dsmlink (which is a bolt on since the harnesses are the same & a non-piggyback, because it doesnt use the stock ecu) is a mcgyver mod b/c ecuplus supplies its own harness, lol. It seems to me like ecuplus is exactly like the emanage ultimate. It's a descent tuning tool, i like it. But whatever floats your boat.

I think he's saying it's a mcgyver mod because nowhere in the dsmlink website does it say it supports a evo 8. Is it even officially supported? There's nothing wrong with piggyback systems, as long as you are aware of it's limitations. Same with a ECU replacement like the dsmlink. Does not come anywhere close to the true standalone ECU replacements in terms of features, and probably never will due to the basic design, but definitely worth the money.
actually it comes very close to being like aem...

trinydex
11-26-2005, 06:38 PM
ok this is the best riddle ever, i'm sorry i don't frequent nce too much... what are you running?

you also lose function of a few other things mentioned in the evom post. intercooler sprayer among other knick nacks.

ECU Plus
http://www.ecuplus.com/

Intercooler sprayer is useless anyway and I don't even have that on my car, it's an 05.

hmmm this is very interesting

dsm link still does more, but this one is indeed less geto...

Yuh
11-26-2005, 07:33 PM
I think he's saying it's a mcgyver mod because nowhere in the dsmlink website does it say it supports a evo 8. Is it even officially supported?

www.dsmlink.com/forums

It's a underground thing. The forum is for owners/special members only ;)
Believe what you guys want, and get the results you guys want. Just spitting my opinion. BTW, not all the features possible are listed on the webpage.

One of the features, not saying that you should do it is: if you can do basic java programming, edit the open source software and bypass the computer smog check stuff (i.e. no EGR, no evap, no charcoal canister) and you can make it throw a pass. You just have to stick on your cat and pass CA smog.

Not saying that i did it http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/angel.gif However I did pass smog with a shitload of mods, my upgraded turbo, and my old 550cc injectors with my emisssion friendly tune on 91 oct. Costed 40ish bux.

earlyapex
11-26-2005, 07:36 PM
I agree the DSMlink is powerful. I would be running it right now if it was ready for primetime, it isn't, so I'm not.

I am perfectly happy with the added control I have now with ecuplus and the numbers and my curves tell the story.

This friday I will have some updated charts with some additional parts on the car and I'll be tuning it on the dyno for 2hrs.. 8)

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 03:07 PM
It's a underground thing. The forum is for owners/special members only ;)
Believe what you guys want, and get the results you guys want. Just spitting my opinion. BTW, not all the features possible are listed on the webpage.


The fact that it's a DSM 2g ecu hacked to work with a evo, that it's not fully suported, that the dsmlink guys would not call it a product, pretty much lends itself to calling it mcgyverism. It's the same principle if I mcgyvered a nissan ecu to work with the evo.

Since I don't have access to the dsmlink forums, here's where i found some info regarding the dsmlink into a evo.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showpost.php?p=1976097&postcount=15

However if they finally release a dsmlink for the evo as a official product based around the evo ecu, I'd definitely get it over anything else out there.

Besides, the dsmlink gets expensive once you factor in the cost of purchasing a 2g ecu.

Yuh
11-29-2005, 09:14 AM
The fact that it's a DSM 2g ecu hacked to work with a evo, that it's not fully suported, that the dsmlink guys would not call it a product, pretty much lends itself to calling it mcgyverism. It's the same principle if I mcgyvered a nissan ecu to work with the evo.


... and a "MR BOV" to a 03-04-05 evo, HIDs retrofitted to a non-HID'd car, and .. ah i'll stop. You're missing my point to mcgyverism, not that it isn't a bad thing. True, dsmlink requires modification to the harness (about ~8 pins swapped in total that I can see), but not very much. I think it's a much better solution than a piggyback.

Any other piggyback hacks into the harness (or you can buy a harness, but it's still hacking), modifying the signals, and spitting it back so the stock ecu reads it differntly. No matter what, the sampling rate will be slower and potential wise is worse. But then again, what does it matter if your computer can't log it fast enough.

But anyhow, whatever. I'm done with this thread.

dohcvtec
11-29-2005, 10:39 AM
:lol:

earlyapex
11-29-2005, 11:50 AM
But anyhow, whatever. I'm done with this thread.

So I have a question, how are you going to use the 2G ecu in your EVO 9 which has a totally different ECU and only 3 plugs?

earlyapex
11-29-2005, 11:59 AM
Interesting quote from the creator of DSMlink:

"Will the EVO solution use DSM ECU?

I wouldn't call any solution that uses anything but the EVO ECU a "product". So if we do release something, it'll have to use EVO ECU. BTW, I have a 2G ECU running in the EVO as well. But I've not been as happy with the part throttle/low airflow ignition advance curves as others seem to be. Maybe something funny with my car or maybe I'm the only one running part throttle with low airflow. Thomas Dorris"

egui42
11-29-2005, 12:08 PM
Interesting quote from the creator of DSMlink:

"Will the EVO solution use DSM ECU?

I wouldn't call any solution that uses anything but the EVO ECU a "product". So if we do release something, it'll have to use EVO ECU. BTW, I have a 2G ECU running in the EVO as well. But I've not been as happy with the part throttle/low airflow ignition advance curves as others seem to be. Maybe something funny with my car or maybe I'm the only one running part throttle with low airflow. Thomas Dorris"

Very interesting indeed. :idea:

vtluu
11-29-2005, 12:43 PM
So many engine management solutions, so little money... :bandhead:

Ah well, think I'll wait and get a new tranny in the meantime. More power won't do me any good if I'm just coasting in the straights, grinding gears. :lol:

Yuh
11-29-2005, 03:02 PM
But anyhow, whatever. I'm done with this thread.

So I have a question, how are you going to use the 2G ecu in your EVO 9 which has a totally different ECU and only 3 plugs?

page 1.

dohcvtec
11-29-2005, 03:27 PM
What happens to your Mivec if you use a 2g ecu?

earlyapex
11-29-2005, 04:10 PM
What happens to your Mivec if you use a 2g ecu?

Doesn't matter because you cannot use a 2G ecu in a EVO 9, it has 4 plugs and the EVO9 has 3. You cannot use an ecu harness either yet for the EVO 9.

Cameron@xperformance
11-29-2005, 05:07 PM
on the subject of EVO 9....i read somewhere (cant remember right now) that motec has a plug-and-play for the EVO 8/9

earlyapex
11-29-2005, 06:15 PM
on the subject of EVO 9....i read somewhere (cant remember right now) that motec has a plug-and-play for the EVO 8/9

They use Motec for the EVO FQ-400

Cameron@xperformance
11-30-2005, 10:28 PM
on the subject of EVO 9....i read somewhere (cant remember right now) that motec has a plug-and-play for the EVO 8/9

They use Motec for the EVO FQ-400
will the uk evo's motec plug right into the usdm evo?

earlyapex
12-01-2005, 12:30 AM
will the uk evo's motec plug right into the usdm evo?

The Motec site lists EVO8 US spec in development. They have evo 4 through 7 plugn'play available already there. Although I do believe there are people in the USA using motec on the evo already.

EFIxMR
12-01-2005, 03:47 AM
i doubt the m800 pnp will ever come out in the US. i went to their ADL seminar, and they are not interested in selling ECU's to the general public.

their focus is on professional race teams, and providing close personal tech support that just wouldn't be possible on a large scale to the general masses which is on a whole efi illiterate.