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turbotiger
11-28-2005, 02:45 PM
I'm looking for some agressive high temp street pads. Not sure what choices I have for the evo that will fit my range.

Cold stopping power needs to remain high.
Needs to have a high maximum operating temperature.
Low to no noise
Low to moderate dusting (I can deal with up to moderate dusting, but prefer no to low dusting)
Good to excellent modulation
Fairly firm pedal feel
Fairly high coefficient of friction.

Basically the equivelant of the Axxis Ultimates or better, which they don't make for the front evo's.

The pads are for the street / autox with some very light track usage (hence the high maximum operating temperature)

Cold stopping power is very important to me.

ZK
11-28-2005, 02:58 PM
Axxis Ultimates are not really good. I'd stick with the OEM Brembo pads before using those. They are ok for street use, high initial bite but can not hold together on the track - the bite is not as hard at higher temps, they fall apart, dust a lot more than stock pads and squeal sometimes too.

I suggest the Ferrodo DS2500. I am running those on my Evo. Even when these things overheat they still work ok - they just turn into chunks and come apart. 0.5 friction is a pretty aggressive bite! So far they dust up LESS than the stock pads under normal driving.



the DS2500 material has a friction level of approximatively 0.50 which remains constant at any speed and at any temperature that the brake system is working at.

The DS2500 compound is designed for racing applications thanks to its excellent speed and temperature sensitivity characteristics but it can also be used for fast road use, being a popular choice of owners of high performance cars such as Imprezas.

The main characteristics of DS2500 are:

* Race developed
* Performs equally well on heavy and light cars
* 20% less pad wear than competitive products
* Minimal bedding-in. Supplied ready to use
* Disc friendly
* Consistent friction level with changing temperatures and speeds to give optimal pedal modulation
* High friction level at low temperature (good cold braking)
* High friction level at very high temperatures
* 35% less compressibility than competitive products (racing pedal feel)
* Less noise for increased driving comfort

vtluu
11-28-2005, 03:02 PM
It's all about finding balance and trade-offs. You're not going to find a pad perfect for everything. Heck for "very light track usage" I'd say the stockers are probably okay. Myself, I'm almost at the point where no street pad I can get would be very suitable for the way I drive on the track. But in your case, I'd say something like the Ferodo DS2500s would work well. They will be a touch noisier and dustier than the stock ones but that's the price you pay for more stopping power.

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 03:18 PM
It's all about finding balance and trade-offs. You're not going to find a pad perfect for everything. Heck for "very light track usage" I'd say the stockers are probably okay. Myself, I'm almost at the point where no street pad I can get would be very suitable for the way I drive on the track. But in your case, I'd say something like the Ferodo DS2500s would work well. They will be a touch noisier and dustier than the stock ones but that's the price you pay for more stopping power.

I'm not really happy with the cold stopping power of the stock pads. The first initial stop when the pads are cold is kinda scary, especially at freeway speeds. However once they warm up they're fine. Let me reiterate. I do not want a track pad. I want a street pad. I am not willing to accept the tradeoffs of a track pad (low cold stopping power, noise, rotor and pad life when cold)

It's also difficult to find specs on all the other brake pads out there. Things like Maximum Operating Temperature, and Coefficient of friction are usually missing, but at least they're quantifiable. Things like dust, pad and rotor life, and noise aren't quite as quantifiable.

ZK
11-28-2005, 03:30 PM
I'm not really happy with the cold stopping power of the stock pads. The first initial stop when the pads are cold is kinda scary, especially at freeway speeds. However once they warm up they're fine. Let me reiterate. I do not want a track pad. I want a street pad. I am not willing to accept the tradeoffs of a track pad (low cold stopping power, noise, rotor and pad life when cold)

It's also difficult to find specs on all the other brake pads out there. Things like Maximum Operating Temperature, and Coefficient of friction are usually missing, but at least they're quantifiable. Things like dust, pad and rotor life, and noise aren't quite as quantifiable.

You'll like the DS2500 then - its a street pad that works surprisingly well on track duty. They have very high initial bite. 0.5 when cold and it maintains the same when hot.

The stock pads do require a bit of heating to get them working good. I've had a few hairy episodes when hard braking from high speed on the street.

dohcvtec
11-28-2005, 04:47 PM
I vote the Ferodo DS2500's also. I have them on all 4 corners on my Evo and love them for daily driving. They even held up for track duty for me.

earlyapex
11-28-2005, 05:19 PM
Check out the Hawk HPS and Porterfields too.

Cheaper price and pretty good for street pads.

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 05:46 PM
Check out the Hawk HPS and Porterfields too.

Cheaper price and pretty good for street pads.

Which porterfields?

ZK
11-28-2005, 06:13 PM
Which porterfields?

I think he means the R4-S which is their only street compound. I've ran the R4-S before... They dust up more than stock and squeal in street use plus at the track they really chunk apart badly and do not offer as much bite as other pads. IMHO, they are not worth it. The R4 works decent for a track pad but you mentioned you're not interested in that.

earlyapex
11-28-2005, 06:18 PM
Which porterfields?

I think he means the R4-S which is their only street compound. I've ran the R4-S before... They dust up more than stock and squeal in street use plus at the track they really chunk apart badly and do not offer as much bite as other pads. IMHO, they are not worth it. The R4 works decent for a track pad but you mentioned you're not interested in that.

So you say the R4-S suck on track then you say R4 works fine but then mention he doesn't care about the track.

so why bring up that the R4-S suck on track? He asked about street pad options and I gave him street pad options.

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 06:47 PM
I hear the Ferodo D2500's dust orange, so that's out.

Remember, this is a street pad, so telling me that these pads get destroyed when you take them on the track doesn't apply to me.

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Just found out the Hawk HPS has a MOT of 750deg F.
That's really low, so that's out.

I'm really looking for a MOT of around 1000 deg F.

Gruppe-S
11-28-2005, 07:23 PM
It is difficult to find a pad that will perform well on and off the track. I am currently using Endless SSS and its working out great for me. However, they do dust but not as bad as the stock pads. Again, there's never a perfect world.

Thanks,
Tom

MarkSAE
11-28-2005, 07:27 PM
How about the Endless SSSS pads? The temp range for them is 32F-932F. I currently have them in front and Hawk HP+'s in the rear. My current combo requires a stop or two to get the brakes to bite though. I think it's probably my rear pads that need heating up.

ZK
11-28-2005, 07:37 PM
So you say the R4-S suck on track then you say R4 works fine but then mention he doesn't care about the track.

so why bring up that the R4-S suck on track? He asked about street pad options and I gave him street pad options.

Read my post first. You mentioned the porterfield pads and I said the R4-S suck on the street AND track. So that does answer his question. It dusts up a lot and squeals on the street and doesn't have as high a initial friction as other pads. And he did mention light track use so that's why I bring up that they do not hold up under high heat conditions.

I have the DS2500 on my car if you want to see it. There is no orange dust.

You really need to figure out which is an priority for you, there's no one pad that does miracles. More grabby pads will produce more dust and more noise. Less noise, less dust will not be as grabby and will not be able to handle the high heat.

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 08:06 PM
Ok, let's make this clear again. Street is a priority to me. Cold stopping is a priority to me. A high MOT is a priority to me (around 1000 deg F). Dust is a concern, rotor and pad life is a concern, and noise isn't as much of a concern.

Having a high MOT of around 1000 deg F means it'll do some light track duty. I've gotten away with metal masters with light track duty before. Course they caught on fire, but they never failed to stop the car.

Now I'm comparing to the Axxis Ultimates which have a MOT of 932 deg F. They're quiet, have very good cold stopping feel, has a high enough CF, excellent initial brake feel (maybe too much), and dusting is moderate

turbotiger
11-28-2005, 08:08 PM
How about the Endless SSSS pads? The temp range for them is 32F-932F. I currently have them in front and Hawk HP+'s in the rear. My current combo requires a stop or two to get the brakes to bite though. I think it's probably my rear pads that need heating up.

So is the cold stopping feel the same or worse than stock for the Endless SSSS pads?

MarkSAE
11-28-2005, 08:13 PM
So is the cold stopping feel the same or worse than stock for the Endless SSSS pads?

Cold bite w/ my current combo is actually worse than stock right now. It's just a little worse than stock.

dohcvtec
11-28-2005, 08:39 PM
Cold bite is better with the Ferodo's and I have never experienced orange dust. To me they dust similar to stock :?

earlyapex
11-28-2005, 09:36 PM
I have the DS2500 on my car if you want to see it. There is no orange dust.


They dust orange. You probably can't tell because you have silver wheels. Trust me, they dust orange.

Cameron@xperformance
11-28-2005, 10:59 PM
the DS2500 have great "cold" stoping, that is what my dad uses for autox. he also uses them on track and loves them

Fletch
11-29-2005, 02:29 PM
Which porterfields?

I think he means the R4-S which is their only street compound. I've ran the R4-S before... They dust up more than stock and squeal in street use plus at the track they really chunk apart badly and do not offer as much bite as other pads. IMHO, they are not worth it. The R4 works decent for a track pad but you mentioned you're not interested in that.

I agree. I have the RS4's on currently and do not like the noise and lack of bite. I am waiting for BHP to come out with EVO pads early next year. These are top quality pads and should work well. They only have Porsche Applications right now.

MarkSAE
01-30-2006, 11:17 PM
http://www.carbotecheng.com/appguide-pads-mitsubishi.htm

I was looking at this page and noticed Axxis Ultimates had an application for our cars front and back. Is this real? Those prices are good!

methods4
01-30-2006, 11:37 PM
I have the DS2500 on my car if you want to see it. There is no orange dust.

I have black powdercoated wheels and the DS2500s dusted up ORANGE after a few miles.

SpeedElement
02-07-2006, 06:26 PM
I have the DS2500 on my car if you want to see it. There is no orange dust.

I have black powdercoated wheels and the DS2500s dusted up ORANGE after a few miles.

+1. it is true that DS2500 will have slight orange/copper color dust. my wheels are gunmetal color and it shows as well :)

http://www.speedelement.com/forsale/nt03rr.jpg

but they stop great!

earlyapex
02-07-2006, 06:49 PM
Oooh looky, I guess I'm not crazy again.

redvolution
02-07-2006, 07:09 PM
Optimizing front-rear bias is another factor to consider when buying pads. I know it's popular to get more aggressive pads in the front, but that's going to exacerbate front-bias. Clearly we'd rather have front bias than rear bias, but I'm sure Mitsubishi tunes the system (EBD included) for front-bias already. It's probably even more important on the RS (which probably still has some sort of valve to help the situation as weight is transferred forward under braking).

I had originally planned to run more streetable pads on the rear but now I'm going to get the same or a slightly more aggressive pad for the rear to maintain optimal brake bias.

Steiner
02-19-2006, 02:23 AM
I've asked this question 2 or 3 times now when I'm at Gruppe-S and Tom always gives me the same answer: Endless Super Street Sports M. It sounds like if daily driveability is your #1 priority and minimal dust is your #2 priority than these pads might be the best option. I've got almost 21k miles on the stockers (no squeeking yet) so I should be able to give you a first hand account in the near future. This chart should help in the meantime...

http://www.endlessusa.com/products/categories/subico3.jpg

MarkSAE
02-19-2006, 08:14 AM
I have the Endless SSSS pads on my fronts right now. I inspected the brakes not too long ago and noticed that these things wear fast. I only have one track day on them and about 3k miles of street driving. The pads have about 35% left. However, these pads are really friendly on rotors.

SpeedElement
02-22-2006, 12:21 PM
altho the DS2500 dusts a bit, but these pads last longer than my stock brembo pads and they do not require to warm up, and thats why i recommend them.

I got them in stock. Contact me if anyone is interested.

Cal