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Full Function
12-12-2005, 04:22 PM
Hey guys & gals,

I just wanted to see if anyone from here is going. There are a few EVOs entered, unfortunately, our EVO isnt going to make it, but our RWD monster is. Anyway, hope to see some EVOs represent!!!

Jerry

nebolic
12-12-2005, 04:38 PM
you have more details? I.E. date/time/place etc...

nebo

Full Function
12-12-2005, 04:43 PM
http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/

this is the link to Best Motoring's site. You'll see a banner for the American Touge 2 battle with the cars that are entered under "features".


I dunno if this is open to spectators, since there isnt any seating on that part of the track as far as I know. All the info is on the site though.

jerry

JanSolo
12-12-2005, 04:48 PM
I see David V's MR2 is going to be there. Good luck David!

Matz
12-12-2005, 05:09 PM
Navid's Evo will be there. So will my cousin's NSX. I don't think they allow spectators, but if you can tag along with a group whose car IS going to be in the event, then you can probably go. I was going to go, but I don't think I can handle driving down and back from Buttonwillow on the same day. :(

KakimotoEVO
12-12-2005, 05:20 PM
It will be really interesting to see the Mullerized Evo against Navid's Evo. Both are very capable track cars. Can't wait to see the results... :D

Cameron@xperformance
12-12-2005, 06:01 PM
It will be really interesting to see the Mullerized Evo against Navid's Evo. Both are very capable track cars. Can't wait to see the results... :D
i think we need more POWER :twisted:

evo_dadi
12-12-2005, 07:07 PM
it says friends are welcome to tag along ;) now if any of our local participants wont mind us taggin along as "pit crews" i say lets all caravan there :twisted:

Matz
12-12-2005, 07:17 PM
it says friends are welcome to tag along ;) now if any of our local participants wont mind us taggin along as "pit crews" i say lets all caravan there :twisted:

aww man, if you guys are gonna take the day off and caravan down, maybe I'll have to force myself to suck it up and drive there, too. :twisted:

Full Function
12-12-2005, 08:30 PM
hey guys,

I know for sure our car is going as well as the Vishnu car. We are leaving sometime on the 19th, but there is a ton of people going with our shop as of now. If you are interested in going, shoot me a PM. The only down side is that we have to be at the track at 7 AM on the 20th. ohh lordy that's early...

Jerry

evo_dadi
12-12-2005, 08:40 PM
and its about 6hours to go there coming from up here :shock:

Matz
12-12-2005, 09:09 PM
and its about 6hours to go there coming from up here :shock:

Dude, 6 hours??? I know your profile says you're from Aptos, but I thought you're always around San Jose. That's one hell of a drive...

evo_dadi
12-12-2005, 10:54 PM
yeah it sucks coming from here since i gotta take 156 then 152 to get to highway 5 :cry:

Matz
12-12-2005, 11:41 PM
it says friends are welcome to tag along ;) now if any of our local participants wont mind us taggin along as "pit crews" i say lets all caravan there :twisted:

Man I'm lame, and couldn't find this info. Can you post the link? Thanks!

evo_dadi
12-13-2005, 12:12 AM
the link was posted by full function a couple of posts up^^ it says on the side that frriends are welcome to go but there must be a certain extent to it.

Matz
12-13-2005, 02:48 AM
the link was posted by full function a couple of posts up^^ it says on the side that frriends are welcome to go but there must be a certain extent to it.

Ah, I'm just blind. I went to Full Function's link, but didn't see the text in the upper right hand corner of the page. :oops:

DB8GSR
12-13-2005, 07:11 AM
4wd Class!! 8) w00t!!

http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/img/home/AT2/participants_10.jpg
http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/img/home/AT2/participants_11.jpg
http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/img/home/AT2/participants_12.jpg

DavidV
12-13-2005, 04:58 PM
Direct link: http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/news/atc22/participant.html

-- DavidV :D

redtydsf
12-13-2005, 06:14 PM
OOOOOOOOOO F!!!!!!!!!!! I wanna go! :shock: It says open video shoot so bring friends, does that mean we can go?

panem
12-13-2005, 06:20 PM
OOOOOOOOOO F!!!!!!!!!!! I wanna go! :shock: It says open video shoot so bring friends, does that mean we can go?
+1

a lot of evo are in this comp. wonder who'll be head hanco

redtydsf
12-13-2005, 09:29 PM
can someone be my friend so i can bring my two little ones to go check this out? :P Or can we just show up as spectators :oops:

redtydsf
12-13-2005, 09:38 PM
hey guys,

I know for sure our car is going as well as the Vishnu car. We are leaving sometime on the 19th, but there is a ton of people going with our shop as of now. If you are interested in going, shoot me a PM. The only down side is that we have to be at the track at 7 AM on the 20th. ohh lordy that's early...

Jerry

PM sent :shock:

Full Function
12-14-2005, 02:47 PM
Hey Mark,

reply to your PM sent!!! :D

leif
12-14-2005, 11:20 PM
are you gunna roll down with us jerry? hopefully it goes better than last years fiasco... that was a hellish 24 hours.

Full Function
12-15-2005, 11:55 AM
Hey Lief,

I'm trying to coordinate something with Shiv and them, but you know how that goes... :roll: I'm pretty sure we'll end up together somewhere down the road, it's a loooonnnnnggg road (5). Oh yeah, I think we are staying all at the same hotel too. Ask Calvin or Shiv, see what they say.

Jerry

Matz
12-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Where are you all staying? I'm considering going the night before to hang out with FactorX, and it would be cool to meet you guys.

EFIxMR
12-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Top Setup K20 EG!

Their car is running the 4-2-1 long tube tri-y I designed and manufactured!!

http://www.rcrewracing.com/dan/rcrewheader/rcrew01%20001.jpg

1StockEvo
12-15-2005, 10:17 PM
^ Nice work ^

Full Function
12-16-2005, 02:10 PM
We are staying at the Desert Inn, it's not too far from the track. The rooms should stil be readily available, so give them a call. Hope to see you guys there.

Jerry

Full Function
12-21-2005, 02:22 PM
Hey guys,

Back from the event, and I'm truely disappointed. The whole event was as unfair as it could have possibly been. I'll explain more later when I cool down alitle bit. :evil: All I can say is UNFAIR/BIAS event coordinators, and RIGGED EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry

earlyapex
12-21-2005, 02:35 PM
I just came back from a WWF event.

I found out it's all fake and the winners are pre-chosen.

WHAT THE HELL?!?!?! I AM UTTERLY DISGUSTED!!!!!

Damn them all to hell! I thought that shizzle was real!

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/crazyhoganBIG.gifhttp://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/crazyhogan9ty.gifhttp://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/crazyhoganBIG.gifhttp://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/crazyhogan9ty.gif

vtluu
12-21-2005, 02:36 PM
The whole event was as unfair as it could have possibly been. I'll explain more later when I cool down alitle bit. :evil: All I can say is UNFAIR/BIAS event coordinators, and RIGGED EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What, so Navid won? :lol:

Not trying to rag on you, I guess I just expected as much from BMI.

Matz
12-21-2005, 02:45 PM
The whole event was as unfair as it could have possibly been. I'll explain more later when I cool down alitle bit. :evil: All I can say is UNFAIR/BIAS event coordinators, and RIGGED EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What, so Navid won? :lol:

Not trying to rag on you, I guess I just expected as much from BMI.

This is definitely not a good way for BMI to promote their videos.

vtluu
12-21-2005, 03:20 PM
This is definitely not a good way for BMI to promote their videos.
I think it's likely that BMI have always done it this way, it's just that we haven't been aware of it until now. Just like the first time you learned that Santa Claus isn't real--nothing changed but your perception of reality. :)

Full Function
12-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Mock all you want people, but OTHER Japanese events have never been this way. D1, Time Attack, and JGTC are very competitive and judged without a slant. This event, however was based on money, what they thought would help sell the DVDs, and crybabies. No names are going to be mentioned except the fact that Vishnu and the guys that came out to support them got the shaft for being essentially too fast and not flashy enough. The original rules of the event were thrown out the window and "new" rules were created. The event was as unorganized as it could have been. The person in charge had given me an answer of "I dont know what's going on" when I asked him why no one was competing from the N/A RWD class during the finals. A pole was taken by the two drivers brought in for the testing and people were out voted, and then brought back in by the event by the Best Motoring Japan side.

On the flip side, I wanted to say congrats to Shiv and the guys from Vishnu for building the true winning car of the event. Tsuchiya (drift king) said it himself, you guys built the "number one awd car in the world". good luck on future events folks.. until next time!!!

Here are some pictures that my friend Mel took, she has some odd ball ones, so just ignore them... :D

http://photobucket.com/albums/d185/fftec/AT2/

Jerry

vtluu
12-21-2005, 03:37 PM
Jerry, as you pointed out yourself, the "other" Japanese events aren't made to sell DVDs. It's too bad BMI thinks that a scripted/rigged/staged event makes for better entertainment than true competition, but they're in the business of selling videos, not running a balanced and fair racing series, so that's their prerogative.

Full Function
12-21-2005, 04:01 PM
actually, OPtion was created to sell magazines and video/dvds. Their events are also much larger, but whatever... what's done is done I guess. I hope you guys enjoy the pictures!!!!

Jerry

ZK
12-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Nice pics! I think I'll pick up the video when it comes out. Looks like fun.

Some of those cars slammed to the ground with the huge wheels don't look like they can compete... did they? or were they there just to watch?

I think it'd be kinda cool to see a dub equipped car going all out at a track. :shock:

redtydsf
12-21-2005, 04:15 PM
So who took first, i mean who shelled out the highest bribe :shock:

DavidV
12-21-2005, 05:03 PM
CN: Agreeing and confirming that the event was rigged and is terrible PR for BMI.

Full Version:

My car was in this event.

As a "competitor" - RWD turbo class - I can add the following observations:

(1) The NA RWD Class: No car from this class made it into the finals. The M3, a beautiful and nicely prepped car and the only German vehicle in the event, was told his car was "not entertaining enough" for the video. Could you imagine being one of the "competitors" in this field of approx. 10 NA RWD cars and being sent home with none of the cars selected so that the Vivid Racing Turbo RX-8 could run?

(2) In the turbo RWD class, the 550rwhp Factor X NSX ran a 1:07 lap. In the same class, my ’93 MR2 ran a 1:05 lap. I asked the producers why my car was not advanced into the final round as the winner of my class based on the lap times I observed on the time sheets. I was told that the decision was not based on lap times, but on subjective scores from the driver (if this is case, why bother timing laps?). Naturally, I then asked to see my subjective score as this had not been communicated to me before they announced the class winners to the crowd. When they flipped to that page, the space next to my car was blank and I was told that they had "forgotten" to score my car. So I next asked that if in fact my MR2 set the fastest lap, and received no subjective score, why did my car not advance to the finals? I was told that the answer might be in the driver's notes or in his comments - so naturally we asked to speak to the driver with the help of a translator and his comments on my car were all very positive. This leaves me wondering, on what criteria were the NSX - and a second car from the same class, the Vivid RX-8 - advanced into the "finals"?

(3) In the AWD class, as Shiv of Vishnu tuning pointed ou in the following post on EvoM the unanimous vote was that the Evo advance . I believe this caught the organizers by surprise as they were likely expecting the crowd to be goggle eyed over the prospect of running the Skyline - we weren't:

"Despite a bad start (our IC hose popped off the first time out), the Best Motoring folks gives us a second try. Thank god. The car goes out again and it absolutely rips through the course. The Best Motoring drivers stayed out the car for a long time just sliding it around the place. The new quotes our signatures pretty much tell the whole story about what they thought. Specifically, they were amazed at the balance of the car. That it did absolutely nothing wrong. Had no vices. Just made good consistent power, handled marvelously, was completely neutral and was the easiest AWD car to drive. It was also the fasted with the exception of the Skyline who had a 1.3 sec advantage over us. When the results came out, the called both us and XS Engineering (who brought the Skyline) out in front of the group. The organizers took a poll to see if the XS car should be allowed to run their tires (everyone else was running real street tires like RA1s, Yoko 048s, Nitto R-compoud radials, etc,.) The unamimous answer was no. This gave us the AWD victory which would put us in the finals gains the winners of the FWD and RWD classes which were several seconds slower around the track. This was good. This meaned that it was more than likely that we'd be in the final against the Comptech NSX which was also a bit slower. And if all went as planned (ie. no hoses popped off :lol, we would have become this years Touge Champion.

Unfortunately, an hour later, we were told that they wanted to let the Skyline in anyway. General consensus is that the producers wanted to see a full race Skyline in the finals with the SC'd NSX. I don't think they had any intention of seeing a stock-looking EVO battle with some high end, highly visible tuner cars. And I don't think anyone could change their mind. So there, you have it, we were crowned the AWD battle champion. Then uncrowned."

The fact is, they knew up front that they wanted the silver NSX up against the Silver Skyline with a flashy blue RX-8 and white Civic in there to round out the field.

Does it come as any surprise that before the cars ever hit the track, the Skyline had the camera mounted on it and the Vishnu Evo didn't? Unless that Skyline had broken down mid track and unless the NSX was the recent recipient of a Geo Metro swap, those cars were going to run head-to-head in the finals no matter what and no German car, old platform, quirky car, or anything that doesn't sell a boatload of these videos was going to make it into the final rounds no matter what.

Interestingly, despite the fact that these events cost the entrants thousands of dollars to participate (tires, race fuel, trailers, time off work, etc.) and the fact that people came in from all over the country, all were given in thanks was a T-Shirt - only I didn't get a t-shirt since the ones they were going to give to the "competitors" in thanks were sold for $10 a pop.
:lol:

I also agree with Shiv's comment to me at the track - how ironic that both SCC in their 2005 USCC shoot out and Best Motoring picked a vehicle (R34 Skyline) that could not legally ever be registered or driven in any state in the U.S.?

If this sounds like sour grapes, maybe it is, but I for one (and I imagine, other competitors) would like to know the true nature of an event before spending sizeable chunks of time and money in preparation. Had I known, I might have procured a Mclaren F1 for the day to have assured myself and my sponors a favorable result - oh wait, that's not a JDM Skyline, so that would have been eliminated too....

-- DavidV :D

earlyapex
12-21-2005, 05:05 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/fftec/AT2/DSC01908.jpg

Wth is this monstrosity.

turbotiger
12-21-2005, 05:21 PM
If you've watched the BMI videos and Hot version, you'll notice that lap times aren't the means for judging the cars. It's all about driver feel, aka what the hosts think about the car, how it handles, feels, looks, whether or not it's lowered. These things are never about a race. And if you watched the videos, you'll realize that. BMI is from Japan, and they're very "patriotic" about japanese cars. While they appreciate the other cars, it's not in the same spotlight as the japanese tuner cars. It's the same thing with Jeremy Clarkson and Top Gear. They love anything british, and respect the rest of the cars.

And people seem to forget that BMI is a video magazine. That's their bread and butter. They don't sell parts or run a race series. They sell videos and target their audience accordingly. They hand picked all their other cars before to make it to the video. I wouldn't think it would be different here.

Full Function
12-21-2005, 06:25 PM
The DUB cars were there just to show, i think DUB is helping BMI promote the videos, so they had the right to bring out their HUGE trailor and these cars. Again, money talks, fast cars got benched....

This is what I posted on EVOM.

The unfairness that people are speaking of was poor planning and coordination was as clear as day. All of the rules that were given to us (invited vehicles) by e-mail before the event and then were thrown out the window once cars were tested. I was told by Masa, the main english speaking guy from BMI said initially that the cars tested with non-compliant tires would have points deducted from their final score cards. But I think the Japanese producers were the ones to blame. The American guys were pretty much put into the dark when it came to who was the finalists and who wasnt. Shiv explained the whole part with the Vishnu EVO and XS Engineering. The best part of this is that when the pole was taken whether or not their car should compete, HE DIDNT EVEN RAISE HIS HAND.

There was a huge issue I had with the NA RWD class. We had the fastest time behind the not-very-flashy M3 that handled very very well. Our class was eliminated from the whole event all together. When I asked Masa about this part, his only reply was "I have no idea what is going on right now." Go figure. I found the owner of the M3, and he said that they didnt want his car to appear in the finals because it was not as exciting. I guess we'll see what the actual event will look on the DVD. No matter what, it was foul play somewhere along the road.

As to what happened with John Mueller's car, it was unfortunate to say the least. Watching that car fly around the track was definately a sight to see, and it WAS COMPLIANT TO THE RULES!!!!! Congrats to you guys for building a awsome car along with all the greeat cars at the event.

In defense of the hose popping off with the Vishnu car, I asked Masa as well about this. He said that there was no official time on the car yet, and if it was a simple fix (I.E. no motors/turbos/trannys being pulled out) then we could get back in the event as long as they were still doing the initial testing. Once we got the hose back on and put zip ties on the make sure vacuum line would not pop off. The test driving that Shiv did was to ensure the hose would not pop off under full boost and constant on-off throttle situations. No other changes were made to the car power, suspension, or tire wise. All the work we did to the car was in front of one of the guys from BMI staff, to make sure we did not make any changes. Shiv's lap top wasnt even in the car!!!!!!

There were alot of cars there, the testing between classes were done the same. A driver would take one of the cars out, come back and hop into another car. There was no difference between the first group of classes versus the second group. The only time both drivers took each car out was during the finals.

In the end people had fun and I'm sure it will make a great DVD. I just wish the rules would have been more clear. They didnt even need to be set in stone, but at least keep them out of the vanilla pudding...

Jerry

redtydsf
12-21-2005, 06:27 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/fftec/AT2/DSC01908.jpg

Wth is this monstrosity.
man i bet that handles F'n great :lol:

DavidV
12-21-2005, 07:26 PM
If you've watched the BMI videos and Hot version, you'll notice that lap times aren't the means for judging the cars. It's all about driver feel, aka what the hosts think about the car, how it handles, feels, looks, whether or not it's lowered.

So then why were there blank fields in many (if not most) of the subjective rating boxes? The cynical answer is that you don't score cars you have no intention of running in the finals - you simply make up scores after the fact to justify your earlier selections.

And another thing, that's why we (and many other competitors) bothered getting translators and talking to the drivers to get feedback. We love learning about what the drivers think of the cars - its the shows producers, however, that ultimately call the shots no matter what the drivers say.

-- DavidV :D

DB8GSR
12-21-2005, 08:56 PM
Who knows what the producers and drivers came upon the conclusion as to which cars are going to compete in the finals. Last time I checked, Touge Battles are not judged by laptimes but it was more towards the "fun factor" of how well the car is put together. Normally, the easiest car to drive without making the driver work too hard gets the points.

Also, they probably got soo overwhelmed with all the car entrants that showed up and wasn't going smoothly accordingly to the plan. But again, this is the 2nd time they've done this Touge Action in the states. Now if you religiously watch Hot Version (Japanese Version) and I'm not talking about the US DVD BMI/Hot "2min battle" Version, it took a while for them to find and crown the AMUSE S2000 as the Touge Monster. The AMUSE S2K had to compete several times with the big boys, twice of it's hp, running around the touge until the test drivers finally said, well done!

I believe we are going into the same phase as when Hot Version started their Touge Battles in Japan. Originally, Hot Version Japan were doing hardcore competition tuner racing in Tsukuba, like HKS Kansai, Zero Sports Fighter, Esprit.. etc that has an all purpose built race cars and goes balls out at the track. You won't see this on the US BMI DVD because it's only available in Japan but you can easily find them in Japantown. Nonetheless, I'm still going to buy the US Touge DVD when it comes out. :wink: :D

nebolic
12-21-2005, 10:17 PM
since this shit is all rigged, just don't buy the DVD when it comes out. Boycott those videos.

Sucks that people put in a lot of effort/money/sweat and get shafted.

nebo

P.S I'll keep this thread open - if you feel like blasting them more, go right ahead. Your voices should be heard.

redtydsf
12-22-2005, 11:12 AM
since this shit is all rigged, just don't buy the DVD when it comes out. Boycott those videos.

Sucks that people put in a lot of effort/money/sweat and get shafted.

nebo

P.S I'll keep this thread open - if you feel like blasting them more, go right ahead. Your voices should be heard.

+1..........bittorrent that $hit :twisted:

vtluu
12-22-2005, 11:27 AM
Why bother, I'd rather watch Top Gear anyway. 8)

Full Function
12-22-2005, 12:20 PM
I agree with Tam, Top Gear is bada$$. That and you dont need to read subtitles or have a translator sitting next to you if you arent Japanese...


:D

Jerry

earlyapex
12-22-2005, 12:39 PM
I agree with Tam, Top Gear is bada$$.

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/video/topgear/

http://www.tunertrader.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=516

cheers

DavidV
12-22-2005, 01:44 PM
More discussion here:

http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/forum_new/showthread.php?t=159&page=1&pp=18

-- DavidV :D

vtluu
12-23-2005, 05:31 PM
People seem to have a lack of understanding of what "slicks" are. These are not slicks:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/hoosier/ho_r3s04_a3s04_ci2_l.jpg http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_ecsta_v710_ci2_l.jpg http://www.hankooktireusa.com/images/uploads/Z214.jpg

They are DOT-approved (i.e. legal--though not recommended--for street use) R-compound tires. Around a typical autocross course or race track they'll typically be 2-3 seconds faster than street tires, and probably over a second faster than intermediate R-compounds like the RA1s.

"Slicks" refer to non-DOT tires with no tread, no grooves, etc., typically bias-ply (non-radial) tires. They wear much faster than DOT-Rs, and are probably a couple seconds faster still than even the "treadless" DOT-R tires.

It's my understanding that the R34 was running on (Hankook) DOT-R tires, not slicks. As was Navid (who called BMI to verify that his V710s were allowed). (The point remains that the R34 is not sold nor street-legal in the US.)

DavidV
12-23-2005, 06:20 PM
In case they take it down, here is Eric Hsu's post on the BMI board (He owns XS Engineering - the shop behind the R34 Skyline) along with my reponse:

"I'd like to straighten out the silly rumors for your guys.

No, we did not cheat. The rules stated that you can use any DOT approved tire with steel belts. Since many Hoosier tires are bias ply, many Hoosier's were not allowed. I specifically ordered the Hankooks because it met the tire requirements according to the BMI staff. Drift King DID NOT KNOW that our tires were approved for the contest. After the BMI staff explained to him what the contestants were told for tire rules, a careful re-evaluation of the Vishnu EVO and our BNR34 was done. Our car was chosen because it was 2.5 seconds faster (on a 1 minute track!) and it felt like a match for Japanese tuned GT-Rs. For those of your that were there, during lunch, you saw both our BNR34 and the Vishnu EVO go back out on the track for no apparent reason right? Well that lunch time session was for Drift King to re-evaluate both cars.

Sure, Drift King also said that in Japan the tires must have 70% tread across the surface, but the USA BMI staff didn't even know this rule existed and therefore did not tell anybody about this. After Drift King was notified that the 70% rule was not told to anybody, our car was reconsidered for the touge battle and the lunch time re-evaluation happened.

As for our STi not making it, it is entirely true. The clutch went out Friday night and nobody was able to get me a twin plate until Weds morning (air shipped from Japan). So our back up was the BNR34 GT-R. Who wants to bring a stock bodied, full weight, 3480lb. GT-R to a super tight 1 lane course? Not me; the laws of physics dictates that a 2800lb car with a better power to weight ratio is going to be faster. With some suspension tweaking on the BNR34, I was just hoping for the best. This is the same car that won the 2005 Sport Compact Car "Ultimate Street Car Challenge" so it is a potent car. I just didn't know it was potent on a super tight, 1 lane kart track. We competed with the BNR34 at USCC on RA1's and we smoked the closest car on the road course portion (at the streets of willow) of the competition by 3 seconds there too. We didn't cheat there either. Besides, I think the competition was rather lucky as our STi is a full 2 seconds faster than our BNR34 at the streets of Willow (with the BNR34 on Hoosiers and the STi on Pirelli P Zero C's).

I'm sure that at the next American Touge they will not allow the Hankooks Z214s, Hoosiers A3/R3s, Kumho V710s. But let's get something straight: WE WEREN'T CHEATING. With a 2.5 second gap on a 1 minute course, we still stood a good chance of winning with RA1's, NT01's, Pilot Sport Cups, GSCSs, etc. It was unfortunate the rules weren't clear, but the BMI staff assured me that the rules will be crystal clear next time for a drama free event.

Thanks for your time,

Eric Hsu
XS Engineering, Inc."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric,

I for one consider you first and foremost a friend. Any allegations that XS cheated are 100% B.S. in my opinion.

I can also support your decision to run the Hankooks. With the limited information that you and I were both able to squeeze out of the event organizers prior to the event, it appeared that Hankooks, Kumhos and similar tires were fair game. As a fellow participant in what I believed was a motorsports "competition" for television, you and I both chose the best tires that we were led to believe would be acceptable under the rules. The fact that those rules suddenly changed once we were at the event and it was too late to do anything about it is B.S.

What is also B.S. is that the vote was taken *after* the cars had run. In fairness to you and your team, since many of the entrants showed up on tires that fell in the "gray area" the vote should have been taken before a single car ran. I guarantee you at that point there would have been a different show of hands.

Now, my beef is simple. If the rules suddenly change mid-event - whether to our against your team's advantage - they should have changed for everyone.

There is no sane reason that the Skyline - fastest car in its class - should run in the final showdown, while the fastest cars in other classes were disqualified under the bogus tire rule.

This was not your fault in the least - the fault is squarely with the organizers - but this is a simple point to understand. It is also why the event smells "rigged" to people that shelled out thousands of dollars and time and effort to attend.

I can guarantee you that the final showdown would have been more exciting from a true motorsports perspective with more closely matched cars. After all, while I am confident that the Skyline would have won regardless, it would have been a closer and more exciting competition pairing it against cars turning much faster lap times that the NSX, for example.

Hypothetically, if they had run my MR2 against your Skyline, I have no doubt in the world based on the lap times recorded that day that the Skyline would have won. Nonetheless, a shootout between cars with somewhat closer lap times would have been more honest and more true to the spirit of what we all understood the event to be - as opposed to what the producers believe sells programming.

By the same token, if the Skyline and all the other cars on "gray area" tires were banned, a run-off between the Vishnu Evo and the M3, for example, would have been more honest and more fun to watch than a 1:01 Skyline against a 1:07 NSX.

Anyway, I think you see my point. I hold you in the highest esteem and respect and admire you and your team's accomplishments in this event and others. However, I do not believe that the event was even close to being full disclosure for those involved.

Knowing what I know today, I still would have made an appearance but I can guarantee that Garrett and I would not have busted our asses squeezing every last ounce of power and suspension tuning out of the car, let alone rush delivering tires overnight, for an event in which the producers were just going to pretend to compete with my car, then turn around and rule it out.

-- DavidV :D

DavidV
01-07-2006, 11:02 AM
Scores here:

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/general-mr2-discussion/3113-american-touge-2-lap-times-posted-here-see-how-mkii-stacks-up.html

-- DavidV :D

ryans
03-20-2006, 08:34 PM
I heard the first one was rigged too. they say they only did 5 laps with the red SC nsx and all the other cars they had ample time to get to know.

crctslt
03-20-2006, 09:32 PM
Holy thread from the dead Batman.

IIRC the Red NSX didn't compete is that they felt it was in another league from the rest of the cars so they made another class for the NSX

Matz
03-20-2006, 09:36 PM
Since we've revived the thread, does anyone have a link to the video? :)

Jay
03-30-2006, 06:59 PM
only the og one..
the new one isnt out yet..as far as i know

SJCoruja
04-10-2006, 05:31 PM
Back from the dead again...not sure if anyone does want to buy it, but FYI it is out and just watched a bit of mine at lunch. Very cool to see Navid's car in there!

Matz
04-10-2006, 05:43 PM
Back from the dead again...not sure if anyone does want to buy it, but FYI it is out and just watched a bit of mine at lunch. Very cool to see Navid's car in there!

Do you have the DVD??? :)

EDIT -- oh dumb question, I missed the "a bit of mine" part. I should have asked, can I borrow it? :lol:

SJCoruja
04-10-2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I can let you check it out. Still haven't sat down and watched the whole thing through, but to be honest what little bit I saw was not that good. They added so many cars this time that there really isn't enough time spent with each...30 secs or so each and only highlights of one lap with one driver.

Matz
04-10-2006, 10:41 PM
No problem, don't worry about it! My cousin has it and I'm going to his house to watch it this week.

redtydsf
04-11-2006, 09:32 PM
it's out :shock: ...im gonna visit my nearest torrent site :twisted: i'll put up a link if i find it :twisted:I gotta wait a few days

STR8DVS
04-11-2006, 09:41 PM
here is a link to buy it they also have a trailer.
http://www.drifting2.com/shop/shop_showbook.php?id=hot0007&client=

redtydsf
05-08-2006, 01:30 PM
for those who don't feel like buying it, here's the torrent...
http://www.mininova.org/tor/292943

L8eight
05-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I can let you check it out. Still haven't sat down and watched the whole thing through, but to be honest what little bit I saw was not that good. They added so many cars this time that there really isn't enough time spent with each...30 secs or so each and only highlights of one lap with one driver.


so true just watched it about 5 min ago, and it seemed very rushed. that R34 was awesome!

Matz
05-09-2006, 09:19 PM
so true just watched it about 5 min ago, and it seemed very rushed. that R34 was awesome!


Yeah, but the NSX is still my fave. :wink:

PANGES
05-11-2006, 04:33 PM
Yeah, I can let you check it out. Still haven't sat down and watched the whole thing through, but to be honest what little bit I saw was not that good. They added so many cars this time that there really isn't enough time spent with each...30 secs or so each and only highlights of one lap with one driver.


so true just watched it about 5 min ago, and it seemed very rushed. that R34 was awesome!


Pardon my dumb question... but how is it AMERICAN togue when they have a skyline?

EVO GRIM
05-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Its in america.

PANGES
05-11-2006, 06:24 PM
ah, was'nt the skyline the only non-US car they used though? I never watched it, only read a little about it on evom.net

MarkSAE
05-12-2006, 07:44 AM
for those who don't feel like buying it, here's the torrent...
http://www.mininova.org/tor/292943


Thanks for the link Mark!