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Matz
01-21-2006, 07:46 PM
Hey guys, I'm slowly working on my Clifford 10.5X installation right now. Are any of you guys experts with reading electrical schematics? I have experience in it, and I understand what the schematics are saying, but I don't know what to make of the door lock actuator circuit on 90-78 and 90-79 (http://evo8.initialdproject.com/HowToInstallCarAlarm/CentralDoorLockingSystem.pdf) of the FSM.

For whatever reason, the rear passenger lock actuator circuit is wired opposite that of the other doors. I also can't figure out how to wire the progressive lock feature (first press unlocks driver door, second press unlocks rest of doors). I would have expected common wiring between the three doors, but there isn't any!

LEVIII
01-22-2006, 10:48 AM
That skematic confused the hell out of me.


Im not to familiar with clifford, but with the locking sytem, it needs a negative pulse to the lock wire and all doors will lock and then a neg to the unlock wire and the driver door will unlock. One more neg to the unlock wire and the remaining 3 doors will unlock.

I hope you understood what I am saying there. If you want i could get you a little easier to understand wiring info.

Matz
01-22-2006, 11:18 AM
That skematic confused the hell out of me.


Im not to familiar with clifford, but with the locking sytem, it needs a negative pulse to the lock wire and all doors will lock and then a neg to the unlock wire and the driver door will unlock. One more neg to the unlock wire and the remaining 3 doors will unlock.

I hope you understood what I am saying there. If you want i could get you a little easier to understand wiring info.

I understand what you're saying, but now I realize that I'm looking at the wrong diagram. The whole press once / press twice unlock logic is inside of the "ETACS-ECU" module, so don't I have to look for another circuit diagram in this section that just has the connections for the door lock / unlock switch? The only issue I then see with that approach is that it's impossible to get progressive unlocking to work. After all, pulsing the driver unlock switch unlocks all of the doors.

Am I making any sense? Am I :stoned:?

MarkSAE
01-22-2006, 11:52 AM
I looked through those schematics and couldn't figure out how to get that two-step unlocking feature to work w/ my alarm. I ended up wiring up the lock and unlock wires to my power door lock button so all the doors lock and unlock together.

Matz
01-22-2006, 03:32 PM
I looked through those schematics and couldn't figure out how to get that two-step unlocking feature to work w/ my alarm. I ended up wiring up the lock and unlock wires to my power door lock button so all the doors lock and unlock together.

I just got back from errands and will look at it again now. I am not optimistic about getting progressive unlocking to work. I'm quite positive that that logic is embedded in the ETACS.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Matz
01-22-2006, 07:16 PM
Hey Mark, I think I see where you can do the progressive locks. If you look at 54B-83, it turns out that the ETACS-ECU will do progressive unlocks with the door cylinder... so I bet we just have to tap into those wires...

MarkSAE
01-22-2006, 07:37 PM
Hey Mark, I think I see where you can do the progressive locks. If you look at 54B-83, it turns out that the ETACS-ECU will do progressive unlocks with the door cylinder... so I bet we just have to tap into those wires...

Hmm... interesting. Does your alarm have a 2-step unlocking feature? Mine doesn't. To be honest, I never found the 2-step unlocking feature that useful. My alarm also automatically locks and unlocks all the doors whenever my key engages and disengages the ignition position. So trying to get it to work with the 2-step unlocking feature would be kinda difficult.

Matz
01-22-2006, 07:41 PM
Hmm... interesting. Does your alarm have a 2-step unlocking feature? Mine doesn't. To be honest, I never found the 2-step unlocking feature that useful. My alarm also automatically locks and unlocks all the doors whenever my key engages and disengages the ignition position. So trying to get it to work with the 2-step unlocking feature would be kinda difficult.

Ah, okay. Mine does have it, that's the "progressive" feature. It also has a way to lock all doors when starting, and unlocking all when turning off the car. I'll probably have it lock all when starting, but will disable the unlock all feature.

Do you have any suggestions for testing the alarm? I was going to start by using wire taps all around, and then after it works, go back and solder the connections. The only thing is, I'm not sure what kind of damage is done to the wire by the taps if I end up not using a connection (due to a mistake or something). I imagine that I'd have to go back, cut the wire, then resolder and shrink wrap it...

LEVIII
01-22-2006, 10:42 PM
ALot of installers dont use taps or solder. The strip a fair amount of insulation away, split the strands in half, insert the new wire for the alarm, wrap it several times around the bare wire, tape, and put a zip tie in the middle to hold the tape and wrap.

Thats how Fish-man does his alarms.

MarkSAE
01-23-2006, 12:42 AM
Do you have any suggestions for testing the alarm? I was going to start by using wire taps all around, and then after it works, go back and solder the connections. The only thing is, I'm not sure what kind of damage is done to the wire by the taps if I end up not using a connection (due to a mistake or something). I imagine that I'd have to go back, cut the wire, then resolder and shrink wrap it...

I stripped the insulation off my wires and just wrapped the alarm wire around it. I tapped one wire at a time and then tested to make sure it worked. I didn't do any soldering until everything worked together at the end.

Matz
01-23-2006, 05:38 AM
I stripped the insulation off my wires and just wrapped the alarm wire around it. I tapped one wire at a time and then tested to make sure it worked. I didn't do any soldering until everything worked together at the end.

Ok, it sounds like no one was worried about making mistakes (thus having to repair stripped insulation or a tap "bite"). So I guess I'll just do the same, then. :) Thanks!

Got any tips for finding where all of the connectors are under the steering wheel? The main ones that go to the junction box are easy, but there are a handful of others that I'm not sure how to locate.

MarkSAE
01-23-2006, 08:55 AM
Ok, it sounds like no one was worried about making mistakes (thus having to repair stripped insulation or a tap "bite"). So I guess I'll just do the same, then. :) Thanks!

Got any tips for finding where all of the connectors are under the steering wheel? The main ones that go to the junction box are easy, but there are a handful of others that I'm not sure how to locate.

haha.. if you make a mistake, just remove the wire and tape it up! The size of each connector is unique if I remember, so you just need to match it up w/ what it says in the manual.

I also remember finding the color of the wire and matching it to the pin #. I kept getting confused between which side of the connector the wires were on though, male or female. I'm really bad at reading electrical schematics though. It's almost a foreign language to me. ;)

Matz
01-24-2006, 02:43 PM
Ok, well, I don't feel like killing my back and working under the dash to do the experimental wiring, so I'm currently working on it on my table. I'm trying to verify all of the connections to make sure that everything does what I'd expect it to.

So far, I've tested the lock and unlock relays, and I understand how to hook them up. I've had problems with the following:

1. Dome light - when I disarm the system, I'd expect the relay to click to turn on the interior lights. The output doesn't work as I'd expect it to.
2. Triggering alarm - I've armed the system, and then triggered it by using the "instant trigger" input. Once I disarm the alarm, the blue LED keeps flashing as if it's armed. The remote indicates that the system is disarmed, but when I click the disarm button, the remote beeps several times and flashes TRUNK on the LCD. Any ideas?
3. Need to find the parking light connection... if I can't find it, I may have to use the side marker wires instead. The image you gave me from evom has the parking light as N/C.... Did you use them?
4. When I triggered the alarm, I checked for an open circuit on the starter kill circuit -- didn't seem to work.

MarkSAE
01-24-2006, 03:16 PM
I used the shop manual to track down the general vicinity of the parking light wire. It's on one of the connectors near the dimmer switch. You can use a circuit tester to find the wire. You can toggle the parking lights on and off to see which one lights up the tester.

Matz
01-24-2006, 03:39 PM
I used the shop manual to track down the general vicinity of the parking light wire. It's on one of the connectors near the dimmer switch. You can use a circuit tester to find the wire. You can toggle the parking lights on and off to see which one lights up the tester.

Thanks! I'll start poking through the connectors this evening. Gonna have to do a writeup on this whole alarm installation thing.

Hey Mark, any idea where C-227 and C-228 are? Unfortunately, I can't search the PDF for them. I've looked everywhere and haven't found them.. Argh, this is driving me insane. :cry:

MarkSAE
01-24-2006, 04:05 PM
Yeah, installing an alarm in my evo was really difficult for me since it was my first time. I spent a whole weekend working on it.

I'd be a little careful on your write-up since you don't really want to broadcast where you mount your alarm brain and where you intercepted your starter wire.

Matz
01-24-2006, 05:51 PM
Yeah, installing an alarm in my evo was really difficult for me since it was my first time. I spent a whole weekend working on it.

I'd be a little careful on your write-up since you don't really want to broadcast where you mount your alarm brain and where you intercepted your starter wire.

Absolutely, thanks for bringing that up!! I was planning on just saying "put your brain somewhere". I will definitely mount mine in a hard to find location... and will most likely require disassembling everything in the interior, since it's already all gone. :lol:

BTW, I found C-227... it turns out that the info in section 54B is really helpful (like 54B-87). The thing that bugs me is that the plug in the C-227 location doesn't look like the plug in the manual! So I'm a little scared.

EDIT -- I will be lucky if I have this installation done in THREE weekends (part time of course). I've found that this is by far the most complicated thing I've ever had to install. Reading schematics is fine, but actually finding the connectors has taken a lot of time. Double-checking everything that I'm laying out is also killing me. Hopefully, it'll pay off.

As far as the starter wire goes, I'm not sure how to hide that one... it's pretty obvious where it is, since there are very few places that you can tap into it.

MarkSAE
01-24-2006, 08:42 PM
I remember having a hard time finding one of the connectors as well. It's there somewhere. It might be buried under the bundle of wires in the kick panel.

Oh! I remember how I found the right wires to tap for the alarm. I used my multimeter on the wires while I triggered the lights, door locks, etc. Sometimes it's hard for the multimeter to catch the pulse, but you can see the voltage turn to 12V momentarily.

Matz
01-24-2006, 09:53 PM
I remember having a hard time finding one of the connectors as well. It's there somewhere. It might be buried under the bundle of wires in the kick panel.

Oh! I remember how I found the right wires to tap for the alarm. I used my multimeter on the wires while I triggered the lights, door locks, etc. Sometimes it's hard for the multimeter to catch the pulse, but you can see the voltage turn to 12V momentarily.

Yeah, I'm getting to the point where I'm doing the same and not just going by the schematics. But I've had issues because I'm checking for switch connections to ground with the battery disconnected. I think I'm now at the point where I need to reconnect the battery and start to probe again. I will likely stop at Fry's tomorrow to get a fuse holder and some 5A and 10A fuses to simulate relay connections to +12V.

I used my digital oscilloscope for some of the preliminary table testing, so I'll use that in the car as well.

Thanks!