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KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 11:08 AM
So I decided to try and "tweak" the custom DynoFlash road tune by going with the ECU+. I've been playing around with the GUI and some .ecd files recently, which really sparked my interest in the product. I had looked into the ECU+ before, but I figured the road tune would be the best route (at that time) because it was "set it and forget it." Guess that wasn't the case. :(

23 psi didn't cut it for me so I decided to go up to 25 peak psi. In doing so, the ECU is pulling timing because of the adjustments with the S-AFC. I plan on fixing this with the ECU+ because it has the ability to adjust timing and I'll be tuning on top of the road tune. It already has the 720cc injectors scaled so there is no need to reflash the ECU back to stock. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard back from Al regarding the issue with the rev limiter... err.... lack of a rev limiter. IIRC, the ECU+ has the ability to set one.

The ECU+ is on backorder, but Dan from MachV said they should have a fresh batch in a week. Looks like I'll be joining Bryan and Matz. :D

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 11:40 AM
In doing so, the ECU is pulling timing because of the adjustments with the S-AFC. I plan on fixing this with the ECU+ because it has the ability to adjust timing and I'll be tuning on top of the road tune. It already has the 720cc injectors scaled so there is no need to reflash the ECU back to stock. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard back from Al regarding the issue with the rev limiter... err.... lack of a rev limiter. IIRC, the ECU+ has the ability to set one.

Nice! Enter the Lair!

Damn, I should have asked for Royalities from Tom @ ecu+! haha.

You'll love the ability to control timing. IMHO, it is key for tuning on 91 octane. Our EVO's run way too much timing for 91 octane, espically when the car is modied with more boost and airflow.

The ECU+ cannot set a rev limiter yet. Tom is working on launch control and I think it can be messed with to make it a *lower* rev limiter than stock. I already asked him about the ability of raising the stock 7600rpm rev limiter but he said its not possible. Now, since you have NO limiter now you might be able to move it where ever you want.

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 12:13 PM
Nice! Enter the Lair!

Damn, I should have asked for Royalities from Tom @ ecu+! haha.

You'll love the ability to control timing. IMHO, it is key for tuning on 91 octane. Our EVO's run way too much timing for 91 octane, espically when the car is modied with more boost and airflow.


The ECU+ cannot set a rev limiter yet. Tom is working on launch control and I think it can be messed with to make it a *lower* rev limiter than stock. I already asked him about the ability of raising the stock 7600rpm rev limiter but he said its not possible. Now, since you have NO limiter now you might be able to move it where ever you want.

The S-AFC wasn't cutting it so I had to go back to what I originally planned. Al had to pull timing at two points when he was doing the 23 psi tune, so having the ability to control timing via ECU+ will definitely be helpful at 25-26 psi.

Gotcha, thanks for the correction. I believe I saw the thread you created on their forum.

vtluu
01-24-2006, 12:40 PM
If you want to raise the rev limiter, the $99 WORKS Brain Flash RL (http://www.worksevo.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=166) will do so and cheaply. Don't know how it would interact with a DynoFlash though. My feeling is that unless you have a flash specifically made to go with a piggyback, you should go back to stock.

What I also find interesting is that with my P2R, I didn't hit boost cut until over 25 psi--in fact, overboosting was an issue, at the track at WOT I'd regularly sustain 24-25 psi. :shock:

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 12:51 PM
If you want to raise the rev limiter, the $99 WORKS Brain Flash RLwill do so and cheaply.

Jestr Tuning can also do it for $75 + shipping

http://www.jestrtuning.com/pages/mode0.html

Matz
01-24-2006, 01:16 PM
Looks like I'll be joining Bryan and Matz. :D

hehe... more like Bryan and Tam. For now, I'm using the ECU+ for datalogging, and will eventually try tuning once I've saved up enough $$$ for a new engine. :lol:

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 01:39 PM
If you want to raise the rev limiter, the $99 WORKS Brain Flash RL (http://www.worksevo.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=166) will do so and cheaply. Don't know how it would interact with a DynoFlash though. My feeling is that unless you have a flash specifically made to go with a piggyback, you should go back to stock.

What I also find interesting is that with my P2R, I didn't hit boost cut until over 25 psi--in fact, overboosting was an issue, at the track at WOT I'd regularly sustain 24-25 psi. :shock:

I don't have a rev limit because Al forgot to put it in. lol I don't mind not having it as long as it can be set later with the ECU+. The ECU was already flashed with the correct injector scaling. What are the downfalls of using the DynoFlash with the ECU+... in your opinion?

I believe Al removed boost cut so that isn't an issue.

Do you have the ECU+ also (on top of your WORKS flash)?





hehe... more like Bryan and Tam. For now, I'm using the ECU+ for datalogging, and will eventually try tuning once I've saved up enough $$$ for a new engine. :lol:

It's not hard to tune... won't be a professional tune but it "might" be close. :)

vtluu
01-24-2006, 02:20 PM
What are the downfalls of using the DynoFlash with the ECU+... in your opinion?
It's better to use a piggyback to alter maps that are known or at least consistent with others', for comparison/troubleshooting purposes. For example if I had Brand A Reflash and you had Brand X Reflash and we both tuned our ECU+s and wanted to compare maps, the comparison would be meaningless because we were each working off different base maps. More generally, if you can achieve the same results with or without a reflash, I think without is better, simply on the general grounds that "simpler (fewer changes) is better".


Do you have the ECU+ also (on top of your WORKS flash)?
I got my ECU flashed back to stock (selling the P2 in the process) before doing tuning with the ECU+. I do practice what I preach. 8)

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 02:36 PM
What are the downfalls of using the DynoFlash with the ECU+... in your opinion?
It's better to use a piggyback to alter maps that are known or at least consistent with others', for comparison/troubleshooting purposes. For example if I had Brand A Reflash and you had Brand X Reflash and we both tuned our ECU+s and wanted to compare maps, the comparison would be meaningless because we were each working off different base maps. More generally, if you can achieve the same results with or without a reflash, I think without is better, simply on the general grounds that "simpler (fewer changes) is better".


Do you have the ECU+ also (on top of your WORKS flash)?
I got my ECU flashed back to stock (selling the P2 in the process) before doing tuning with the ECU+. I do practice what I preach. 8)

Thanks for the insight. I'm going to think about this...

vtluu
01-24-2006, 02:41 PM
It's just my opinion--which is what you asked for. I'm no expert however, nor do I play one on TV. ;)

That said, I think Bryan would have jumped in by now to tell me how wrong I am, if he disagreed. :lol:

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 02:54 PM
Yes, I know I asked for it. :) I like to keep an open mind and listen to every available option before I make a decision.

Thanks again.

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Yes, I know I asked for it. :) I like to keep an open mind and listen to every available option before I make a decision.

Thanks again.

I wonder if Al still limits the dynoflash to 18 degrees of timing up top. Which would actually be a pretty good feature to have with 91 octane. However on 100 octane and above it might be a hinderance.

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 03:11 PM
I wonder if Al still limits the dynoflash to 18 degrees of timing up top. Which would actually be a pretty good feature to have with 91 octane. However on 100 octane and above it might be a hinderance.

Not sure, but we shall see. I can't bring the EBC back to what Al left it at because the Forge WGA is stiffer so my setting is lower.



With the turnbuckle on the Forge WGA all the way down the car was able to hit 21.5 psi with the EBC off, but when I logged some runs, boost dropped to about 20 in the upper end (this was with the EBC set to peak at 25 psi).

I felt adventerous so I marked where the turnbuckle bottomed at and cut off some threads on the arm. Next I tried orginal bottom out point plus 4.5 more turns. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......... 30.1 psi (EBC off). Ooops! :oops:

Went back home and backed off 2 turns so it's currently at the original bottom out point plus 2.5 turns. Finally got a chance to test this yesterday night and it hit 23 psi (EBC off) but I wasn't able to go all the way up to 7800.

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 04:28 PM
Went back home and backed off 2 turns so it's currently at the original bottom out point plus 2.5 turns. Finally got a chance to test this yesterday night and it hit 23 psi (EBC off) but I wasn't able to go all the way up to 7800.

How is the spool up with it just running off the wastegate? Usually the spoolup sucks without some type of bleeder device.

Matz
01-24-2006, 06:27 PM
I thought that the best reason to keep a reflash under the ECU+ is to prevent the boost taper...

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 06:32 PM
I thought that the best reason to keep a reflash under the ECU+ is to prevent the boost taper...

MBC's only cost $50. :D

I am however waiting for boost control via ECU+. :twisted:

Matz
01-24-2006, 06:56 PM
MBC's only cost $50. :D

I am however waiting for boost control via ECU+. :twisted:

Hmm... okay. :D

Does installing an MBC involve disconnecting the wastegate solenoid from the ECU or something?

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 07:00 PM
MBC's only cost $50. :D

I am however waiting for boost control via ECU+. :twisted:

Hmm... okay. :D

Does installing an MBC involve disconnecting the wastegate solenoid from the ECU or something?

With a MBC, you no longer use the factory boost control solenoid.

MBC connects to wastegate and a pressure source like the BOV line.

EVO GRIM
01-24-2006, 07:36 PM
Hey Kev give us a review on the waistegate actuator? What do you think? Is it worth it?

vtluu
01-24-2006, 08:11 PM
I'm curious how I have a boost-happy Evo, stock WGA, that seems totally willing to hold boost at anywhere from 21 to 25 psi through redline, no taper. I was able to achieve this with the P2R, with the XEDE with boost control, P2R + MBC, and now stock + MBC (and the ECU+ which is hooked in but still with all "zero" maps).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just curious how my car seems to be doing something other people claim it shouldn't be capable of.

dohcvtec
01-24-2006, 08:27 PM
faulty boost guage? :P

vtluu
01-24-2006, 08:40 PM
faulty boost guage? :P
A possibility; however the gauge read true when the car was bone-stock when it was first installed, it seemed to show the correct boost profile when the P2 first installed almost two years later... Could it suddenly go bad in this manner?

KevOVIII
01-24-2006, 09:33 PM
How is the spool up with it just running off the wastegate? Usually the spoolup sucks without some type of bleeder device.

I've only done one comparable pull (about 2500 RPM to 7800) but here are 3 runs I logged.

3690 to 4150 (21.8 psi) = 1.14 seconds
2320 to 3410 (22.2 psi) = 2.05 seconds (LM-1 won't let me pick a point between 22.2 and 20.4)
3160 to 3950 (21.2 psi) = 1.64 seconds

The average time from about 2500 RPM to about 21 psi takes approximately 1.5-2.3 seconds pre-Forge WGA with EBC. I don't have enough data to say the new wga hurt/help spooling.



Hey Kev give us a review on the waistegate actuator? What do you think? Is it worth it?

I'm still trying to make adjustments so I can't say much, but from the one "good" pull I logged, boost held up nicely at 20 psi up to 7750. Only once did it drop to 19.9 psi (which was at 6980 RPM). This run was when the wga hit 21.5 psi with the EBC off. I'll give my opinion when I have a chance to finish with the adjustment.



I'm curious how I have a boost-happy Evo, stock WGA, that seems totally willing to hold boost at anywhere from 21 to 25 psi through redline, no taper. I was able to achieve this with the P2R, with the XEDE with boost control, P2R + MBC, and now stock + MBC (and the ECU+ which is hooked in but still with all "zero" maps).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just curious how my car seems to be doing something other people claim it shouldn't be capable of.

I use an AEM 3.5 bar MAP sensor to log with the LM-1 WBO2. The Blitz EBC's peak boost hold confirms that the two give similar results (for peak psi at least) and I do see boost tappering down to 19-ish above 7k. Just be glad your car doesn't taper... unless it's a faulty boost gauge as dohcvtec mentioned. hehe :D

earlyapex
01-24-2006, 10:38 PM
I'm curious how I have a boost-happy Evo, stock WGA, that seems totally willing to hold boost at anywhere from 21 to 25 psi through redline, no taper. I was able to achieve this with the P2R, with the XEDE with boost control, P2R + MBC, and now stock + MBC (and the ECU+ which is hooked in but still with all "zero" maps).

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just curious how my car seems to be doing something other people claim it shouldn't be capable of.

So if you set it to 22psi it holds 22psi until you bounce off the rev limiter? Same with 25psi?

I don't believe it. I guess I will see for myself this weekend won't I. 8)

EvoKid
01-24-2006, 11:15 PM
I am however waiting for boost control via ECU+. :twisted:

Me, too. Does anybody know an ETA for boost control on the ECU+? I think I might get one and get rid of the Xede when boost sontrol is availible.

vtluu
01-25-2006, 02:39 AM
So if you set it to 22psi it holds 22psi until you bounce off the rev limiter? Same with 25psi?
Did a few pulls on the ole' "asphalt dyno" ;) tonight to make sure everything is in good working order for Saturday. With the MBC in its current setting, I see 21 psi steady all the way past redline (7000 rpm); a couple hundred RPM later it tapers off just a little bit (maybe down to 20 psi) and then just a little bit again (19) just before bouncing off the limiter in 3rd gear.

Matz
01-25-2006, 06:26 AM
So if you set it to 22psi it holds 22psi until you bounce off the rev limiter? Same with 25psi?
Did a few pulls on the ole' "asphalt dyno" ;) tonight to make sure everything is in good working order for Saturday. With the MBC in its current setting, I see 21 psi steady all the way past redline (7000 rpm); a couple hundred RPM later it tapers off just a little bit (maybe down to 20 psi) and then just a little bit again (19) just before bouncing off the limiter in 3rd gear.

Let's hook up a secondary MAP and run it into the aux input on the ECU+. Then show us a log. :lol:

Matz
01-25-2006, 06:30 AM
I don't believe it. I guess I will see for myself this weekend won't I. 8)

I take it you and Tam are going to THill this weekend, instead of coming to Meet #12? :?

turbotiger
01-25-2006, 10:55 AM
I'm thinking Tam may not have actually hooked up the solenoid.

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 11:15 AM
With the MBC in its current setting, I see 21 psi steady all the way past redline (7000 rpm); a couple hundred RPM later it tapers off just a little bit (maybe down to 20 psi) and then just a little bit again (19) just before bouncing off the limiter in 3rd gear.

Hahha, you are telling me you can process what is happening within 600rpm at 7000 rpm, doing a 3rd gear pull, on the street, while looking at a analog gauge?

Which reminds me, I need to hook up this MAP sensor that is sitting on my desk so I can log boost.

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 11:16 AM
I don't believe it. I guess I will see for myself this weekend won't I. 8)

I take it you and Tam are going to THill this weekend, instead of coming to Meet #12? :?

Nope, I'm coming to the meet.

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 11:17 AM
I am however waiting for boost control via ECU+. :twisted:

Me, too. Does anybody know an ETA for boost control on the ECU+? I think I might get one and get rid of the Xede when boost sontrol is availible.

IMHO, if you already have an Xede, keep it. It's more powerful than the ECU+. For now..

Matz
01-25-2006, 03:58 PM
Hahha, you are telling me you can process what is happening within 600rpm at 7000 rpm, doing a 3rd gear pull, on the street, while looking at a analog gauge?

Which reminds me, I need to hook up this MAP sensor that is sitting on my desk so I can log boost.

Heheh... I said the same thing. But Tam probably has a faster processor in his noggin than me.

So what's the going price for a MAP sensor setup like the one you have? I am wondering if it's cheaper to buy one, or to homebrew it. I googled NCE, and it looked like prices are around $135.

OT, but did you know that FasterThanThem seriously raised the prices for their ECU harness? I'm so glad I bought it when you told me it was $55. Now they are going for $150. I emailed them to ask why, but of course I never heard back.

Matz
01-25-2006, 03:59 PM
Nope, I'm coming to the meet.

Cool. I won't beat you on the dyno, but I'll beat you for the "crappiest looking interior" award.

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 04:18 PM
So what's the going price for a MAP sensor setup like the one you have? I am wondering if it's cheaper to buy one, or to homebrew it. I googled NCE, and it looked like prices are around $135.


I have the GM map sensor:

12223861 SENSOR AS $57.24

15305891 CONNECTOR $19.54

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com

I heard the Kavlico MAP sensor can be slightly more accurate/consistant but it also costs $110.

Matz
01-25-2006, 04:23 PM
I have the GM map sensor:
12223861 SENSOR AS $57.24
15305891 CONNECTOR $19.54
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com


Thanks, I'll look into this! I guess I'll have to feed yet another wire through the firewall. It would be nice to have the ECU+ log boost.

So do these sensors usually have some kind of signal conditioning built into it? I guess the output is completely linear?

EDIT -- never mind... I can't seem to find a pressure sensor with the same range as the GM sensor, etc. Plus, I don't want to ask Tom to add user-entered calibration tables to the software since it's not a huge deal.

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 05:08 PM
http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm

"Boost logging supports the GM 3-bar MAP sensor and the AEM 3.5 bar MAP sensor"

Matz
01-25-2006, 05:24 PM
http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm

"Boost logging supports the GM 3-bar MAP sensor and the AEM 3.5 bar MAP sensor"

Yeah I know, I just wanted to see if it would be possible to make one at home for less. The price on the GM sensor that you posted is good, though.

Realistically, you can hook *any* MAP sensor up to the ECU+ as long as it's within the acceptable voltage range. Heck, you can wire in a voltage divider and tweak a pot and it wouldn't know the difference. The key is that Tom only has calibration tables for those two. He could probably easily add one user-customizable table, but I wonder if he doesn't do this to prevent people from blowing up their engines once he has boost control.

Eclipse
01-25-2006, 08:15 PM
Is there any way you can lose the MAF and go speed density with the Ecu+?

May as well use the MAP for all its worth.

Scott

vtluu
01-25-2006, 09:25 PM
Cool. I won't beat you on the dyno, but I'll beat you for the "crappiest looking interior" award.
I've got no back seats, a gaping hole where the stereo used to be... and everything is kinda dirty too, so I'll challenge you for that. :lol:

I did the pulls on the freeway where I could afford to keep my eye a bit more on the gauges. (Some ass-hat tried to race me though... Dumbass.) A MAP sensor wouldn't be a bad idea though; any idea where I might get one cheap?

earlyapex
01-25-2006, 09:27 PM
Is there any way you can lose the MAF and go speed density with the Ecu+?

May as well use the MAP for all its worth.

Scott

Nope, not yet.

Matz
01-25-2006, 10:11 PM
A MAP sensor wouldn't be a bad idea though; any idea where I might get one cheap?

Bryan's earlier post pointed to a GM MAP that's reasonable... under $80. I think I'm going to get one soon.

EDIT -- I just started to place my order, but was appalled by the $14 S/H for the MAP sensor and $10 S/H for the connector. OMFGWAFRO.

Here is another source for the MAP sensor:

GM 3 bar MAP sensor (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=MIA-SNS-004&Category_Code=BCS) - $75
connector for GM 3 bar MAP sensor (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-012&Category_Code=SNS) - $7.50

Shipping was only $10 via UPS 3 day Select. :cool:

I'm going to order one now, and I'll let you know if I have any issues with customer service, shipping, etc.

Yeah, it saved me a whopping $5, but $5 is $5 as I always say. :D I gave Dan at MachV the same argument about not buying the PnP version of the ECU+.

EDIT -- I'm such a dumbass. I should have bought the sensor from GM Parts Direct, and the connector from ATPTurbo. Would have saved way more... oh well.

earlyapex
01-26-2006, 11:08 AM
EDIT -- I'm such a dumbass. I should have bought the sensor from GM Parts Direct, and the connector from ATPTurbo. Would have saved way more... oh well.

:lol: :lol: :oops:

Btw that connector is totally different than mine, mine is black and already wired. Stealth baby. Have fun with hot orange! :lol:

Matz
01-26-2006, 01:21 PM
EDIT -- I'm such a dumbass. I should have bought the sensor from GM Parts Direct, and the connector from ATPTurbo. Would have saved way more... oh well.

:lol: :lol: :oops:

Btw that connector is totally different than mine, mine is black and already wired. Stealth baby. Have fun with hot orange! :lol:

Yeah, I didn't like that orange color. Dammit. :oops: Time to bust out some paint!

Matz
01-27-2006, 07:03 PM
Installing the ECU+ is pissing me off. I can't get that stupid plastic cover under the glove box back on. Anyone figure out a way to do this? Am I being unjustly punished for doing the wiring myself and not buying a PnP model?

In case anyone wants to see the ECU+ log in real time, I recorded an pretty uninteresting video of the startup and slight revving of my Evo (http://evo8.initialdproject.com/ECU+/ECU+ intro.wmv"). You'll find that the UI is pretty busy, but still easy to read everything.

earlyapex
01-27-2006, 07:04 PM
Installing the ECU+ is pissing me off. I can't get that stupid plastic cover under the glove box back on. Anyone figure out a way to do this? Am I being unjustly punished for doing the wiring myself and not buying a PnP model?

Yea, its a pita to get it back on. Lets take a look at it tomorrow.

Matz
01-27-2006, 07:27 PM
Installing the ECU+ is pissing me off. I can't get that stupid plastic cover under the glove box back on. Anyone figure out a way to do this? Am I being unjustly punished for doing the wiring myself and not buying a PnP model?

Yea, its a pita to get it back on. Lets take a look at it tomorrow.

Sweet, thanks, Bryan!

vtluu
01-27-2006, 07:29 PM
Installing the ECU+ is pissing me off. I can't get that stupid plastic cover under the glove box back on. Anyone figure out a way to do this? Am I being unjustly punished for doing the wiring myself and not buying a PnP model?
I figure it should be really easy without the PnP harness. With the PnP harness there's now a pile of extra wires that cover has to fit over (well under) and I really had to tuck, shove and push to get the cover over it. I figure without the PnP harness it should take the usual 10 seconds or so to put the cover back. The trick is finding out how the tabs line up--it's easy to be mistaken and then the cover almost goes on, but not quite.

Where did you mount the ECU+? I found that after taking the ECU out, it reveals a pile of empty room back there (between the ECU and the firewall). Plenty enough room to secure both my Zeitronix WB O2 controller and the ECU+ with zip ties, nice and neat. Now I just have two serial cables coming out of the glovebox.

Matz
01-27-2006, 07:35 PM
I figure it should be really easy without the PnP harness. With the PnP harness there's now a pile of extra wires that cover has to fit over (well under) and I really had to tuck, shove and push to get the cover over it. I figure without the PnP harness it should take the usual 10 seconds or so to put the cover back. The trick is finding out how the tabs line up--it's easy to be mistaken and then the cover almost goes on, but not quite.

Where did you mount the ECU+? I found that after taking the ECU out, it reveals a pile of empty room back there (between the ECU and the firewall). Plenty enough room to secure both my Zeitronix WB O2 controller and the ECU+ with zip ties, nice and neat. Now I just have two serial cables coming out of the glovebox.

I didn't buy the PnP version because Bryan found me an S-AFC harness for $55, so I went and did the soldering myself. So I'm in the same boat as you guys. :(

I hadn't considered removing the ECU completely, and maybe I'll have to do that, or modify the sheetmetal bracket somehow. Actually, I'll just pull the ECU tonight and look for that bottomless pit that you referred to. :cool: I wish I had cut longer wires for my PLX M-300 remote display, so I could hide the main processor back there as well.

vtluu
01-27-2006, 07:45 PM
Sorry, I meant if you take the ECU out temporarily (I did to take it to WORKS to get it flashed back to stock), you'll see there's a ton of room back there. I contemplated modifying the bracket to make more room for the wires, but that ended up not being necessary. I have the ECU back in place, the ECU+ and ZT2 controller mounted close by, all hidden away, so I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

earlyapex
01-27-2006, 08:33 PM
I put my ECU Plus and Zeitronix behind the glovebox.

Eclipse
01-27-2006, 08:38 PM
Does the GM 3 BAR sensor go on the intake mani like on the EMS?

Scott

earlyapex
01-27-2006, 08:43 PM
Does the GM 3 BAR sensor go on the intake mani like on the EMS?

Scott

the GM MAP sensor has a nipple that you can connect to any boost source via a vac hose.

Eclipse
01-27-2006, 10:47 PM
Does the GM 3 BAR sensor go on the intake mani like on the EMS?


the GM MAP sensor has a nipple that you can connect to any boost source via a vac hose.

So you could just T into the stock boost gauge line and find a (5v?) power source to tap in the interior of the car? And then have no extra holes through the firewall.

Matz
01-27-2006, 11:06 PM
Does the GM 3 BAR sensor go on the intake mani like on the EMS?


the GM MAP sensor has a nipple that you can connect to any boost source via a vac hose.

So you could just T into the stock boost gauge line and find a (5v?) power source to tap in the interior of the car? And then have no extra holes through the firewall.

Depends on what you mean by extra. You won't have to drill anything, but you'll have to pop the grommet out on the passenger side. It's pretty easy to do. I don't know where the stock boost gauge hose is, but you can probably cut it and put in a plastic tee fitting, and then run the vacuum hose to the GM MAP. For my GReddy gauge, I teed with a 5/32" fitting from Kragen, and the 5/32" vacuum hose. It was a lot thicker stuff than what I used before, but it works fine. I'll use the same stuff for the GM MAP. Are you coming to the meet at EIP tomorrow? If so, I'm sure any of us can walk you through it there.

On another ECU+ note regarding the wideband O2, has anyone soldered in a bypass cap to reduce the sensor noise? I just put it in, and eventually we'll see if it does anything. In an hour or so I'm going to try to get the ECU+ in behind the stock ECU location. I pulled the ECU out and saw the huge space that Tam was talking about. Wow... huge. :cool:

Matz
01-27-2006, 11:55 PM
Sorry, I meant if you take the ECU out temporarily (I did to take it to WORKS to get it flashed back to stock), you'll see there's a ton of room back there. I contemplated modifying the bracket to make more room for the wires, but that ended up not being necessary. I have the ECU back in place, the ECU+ and ZT2 controller mounted close by, all hidden away, so I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

Hey Tam, I hope you read this tonight. How the hell did you secure the ECU+ back there? I can't find any place to do the zipties. I'm just going to throw it in and lightly ziptie around the existing wire harnesses, and then pray that I can get the S-AFC and stock ECU installed... :shock:

earlyapex
01-28-2006, 12:02 AM
Again, I installed mine behind the glove box.

the ECU Plus and Zeitronix boxes fit PERFECT behind the glove box. They fit perfectly inbetween the plastic bar area and the cabin filter thingie. Then I just ziptied them to the bar. I can show you tomorrow.

earlyapex
01-28-2006, 12:03 AM
Hey Tam, I hope you read this tonight. How the hell did you secure the ECU+ back there? I can't find any place to do the zipties. I'm just going to throw it in and lightly ziptie around the existing wire harnesses, and then pray that I can get the S-AFC and stock ECU installed... :shock:

S-AFC? What the heck you doing with a ECU Plus and S-AFC?

Matz
01-28-2006, 12:21 AM
Hey Tam, I hope you read this tonight. How the hell did you secure the ECU+ back there? I can't find any place to do the zipties. I'm just going to throw it in and lightly ziptie around the existing wire harnesses, and then pray that I can get the S-AFC and stock ECU installed... :shock:

S-AFC? What the heck you doing with a ECU Plus and S-AFC?

Typo. I meant S-AFC harness. Sorry about that.

So I gave up. I'm gonna go to bed, screw this ECU+ installation for now. I'll let you and Tam show me what's up tomorrow. I've just got everything hanging out... plus, I soldered my wideband lead into the ECU+ harness, and now I can't put the glovebox back in since it's in the way (need to connectorize it!).

See ya tomorrow!

Matz
01-31-2006, 10:33 AM
Btw that connector is totally different than mine, mine is black and already wired. Stealth baby. Have fun with hot orange! :lol:

Mine just came in, and it's black! yeah baby! But it's not pre-wired, so I still have to do that. :oops: Have you got a pinout? They didn't include anything, so I don't know which is which... I'll do a search though.

EDIT -- ok, found something... does this look right to you?

Pinout for GM 3bar MAP sensor (http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/mapsensor.htm)

KevOVIII
02-17-2006, 01:29 AM
ECU+ came in on Thursday! http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/woot.gif Tom said my unit has the new hardware required for NLTS and his "secret" feature.

I need to solder the power/ground for the LM-1, signal wire for the LM-1, signal wire for the map sensor, and do the OBD-II quick disconnect mod.

Been playing with the ECU+ Win software but I can't wait to try this thing out with live data.

Matz
02-17-2006, 06:33 AM
ECU+ came in on Thursday! http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/woot.gif Tom said my unit has the new hardware required for NLTS and his "secret" feature.

I need to solder the power/ground for the LM-1, signal wire for the LM-1, signal wire for the map sensor, and do the OBD-II quick disconnect mod.

Been playing with the ECU+ Win software but I can't wait to try this thing out with live data.

That's great to hear! I have no idea what no lift to shift does, or the "secret feature", but it sounds neat. :lol: How come you're disabling the built-in OBD II feature? Tom's OBD "scan tool" is pretty nice.

Did you use an S-AFC harness or solder into the stock ECU harness? I still have a bunch of wires hanging out that I haven't had time to tuck away nicely. I still don't see how anyone did it -- it's a total PITA. I was contemplating hacking apart my S-AFC harness and extending the wires so that it's easier to relocate, but that would take a bit of time to deal with 184 solder joints. :shock:

KevOVIII
02-17-2006, 11:38 AM
That's great to hear! I have no idea what no lift to shift does, or the "secret feature", but it sounds neat. :lol: How come you're disabling the built-in OBD II feature? Tom's OBD "scan tool" is pretty nice.

Did you use an S-AFC harness or solder into the stock ECU harness? I still have a bunch of wires hanging out that I haven't had time to tuck away nicely. I still don't see how anyone did it -- it's a total PITA. I was contemplating hacking apart my S-AFC harness and extending the wires so that it's easier to relocate, but that would take a bit of time to deal with 184 solder joints. :shock:

NLTS just lets you keep your foot on the gas pedal between each shift so the car will have more boost when it engages the next gear. Sort of like how an automatic car works. I'm not sure what his "secret" feature is either. He only mentioned that it was a secret. lol

I'm not completely disabling the OBD-II scan feature for the ECU+. I'm just making it so that someone else can use a scanner on my car if I disconnect the wire (pin #62). The instructions say another scanner will not be able to read from the OBD-II port if the wire isn't disconnected. Check out section 7.4... or page 74 and 75.

I bought the PnP harness because I don't feel like soldering so many connections. The less I have to solder, the happier I am. :D 20 solders vs. 4 now. Soldering 184 joints? :shock:

I'm going to install the harness the same way I did for the S-AFC harness. It's nicely tucked away underneath the plastic cover but I had to use zip ties on certain areas of the harness so it stays flat.

earlyapex
02-17-2006, 12:53 PM
So wait, the NLTS and the secret feature needed additional hardware or just a firmware update? I believe the secret feature is launch control.

Have fun with NLTS, be careful with your tranny. :)

Matz
02-17-2006, 01:38 PM
I bought the PnP harness because I don't feel like soldering so many connections. The less I have to solder, the happier I am. :D 20 solders vs. 4 now. Soldering 184 joints? :shock:

Yeah, the 184 joints refers to having to cut each wire at the connector, and then solder in a longer wire, so that I can put the other plastic end of the connector somewhere else. The harness I have is a total bitch to get in there.


I'm going to install the harness the same way I did for the S-AFC harness. It's nicely tucked away underneath the plastic cover but I had to use zip ties on certain areas of the harness so it stays flat.

I'll have to try doing that as well (the zipties). Did you put your ECU+ behind the glovebox? I have it there now, but I don't know if I can get everything to fit with it there. Maybe I'll just leave a mess of wires in my passenger side. :lol:

KevOVIII
02-17-2006, 03:41 PM
So wait, the NLTS and the secret feature needed additional hardware or just a firmware update? I believe the secret feature is launch control.

Have fun with NLTS, be careful with your tranny. :)

Exact quote from the PM I received from Tom...

[snip]
The good news is that starting (literally) now, all shipping ECU+'s will have two extra wires on 'em, one for the clutch switch (for NLTS when I get that software done), and one for, er, something else that'll make people happy. These two, and a coupla minor internal components, are missing from all current ECU+'s, and folks wanting to use some upcoming features will need to ship their units back to me for retrofit. Since you're still in the queue, your unit will be future-software-ready.
[snip]

Clutch wire is #43 on the ECU, which was soldered on the PnP harness.

KevOVIII
02-17-2006, 03:45 PM
Yeah, the 184 joints refers to having to cut each wire at the connector, and then solder in a longer wire, so that I can put the other plastic end of the connector somewhere else. The harness I have is a total bitch to get in there.

Yea, 92 X 2 = 184 but if you're going to do that... :shock: lol




I'll have to try doing that as well (the zipties). Did you put your ECU+ behind the glovebox? I have it there now, but I don't know if I can get everything to fit with it there. Maybe I'll just leave a mess of wires in my passenger side. :lol:

I haven't installed the ECU+ yet. Probably won't have time until Sunday, but I do plan on putting it behind the glove box. I'll take some pictures for you if I get to it on Sunday. Make sure your passenger doesn't ground one of the ECU+ wires that's sticking out. :D

trinydex
02-21-2006, 12:52 AM
Is there any way you can lose the MAF and go speed density with the Ecu+?

May as well use the MAP for all its worth.

Scott
he doesn't plan on it either, maf is more reliable and is more accurate. speed density is aparently just an estimation (calculatoin) of the air going into the engine where a maf actually measures it.

Matz
02-21-2006, 06:32 AM
The good news is that starting (literally) now, all shipping ECU+'s will have two extra wires on 'em, one for the clutch switch (for NLTS when I get that software done), and one for, er, something else that'll make people happy. These two, and a coupla minor internal components, are missing from all current ECU+'s, and folks wanting to use some upcoming features will need to ship their units back to me for retrofit. Since you're still in the queue, your unit will be future-software-ready.

So it has an extra wire for this special feature? I put my money on either boost control or NOS solenoid modulation.

KevOVIII
02-21-2006, 01:47 PM
So it has an extra wire for this special feature? I put my money on either boost control or NOS solenoid modulation.

Yup, special feature but he didn't say what.

I didn't have time to install the ECU+ this weekend but did have some questions: http://www.ecuplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=292

earlyapex
02-21-2006, 02:00 PM
If I remember correctly, I used the same power and ground.

Matz
02-21-2006, 02:09 PM
12 and 13, and 25 and 26 should be the same. Chassis ground is chassis ground, and 12VDC is relative to whatever its ground is.

I used the clock power and ground lines, and maybe I shouldn't have. I figured that the ground is the same, but if it's not, I've already smoked my AFR input line on the ECU+.

Anyhow, I think you're fine with your current connection.

KevOVIII
02-21-2006, 04:28 PM
Thanks guys... I'll use 25 and 26 because they're free. Just need to pull the pins off the harness connector because of the heat shrink that will need to go on.

Matz
02-21-2006, 06:50 PM
Thanks guys... I'll use 25 and 26 because they're free. Just need to pull the pins off the harness connector because of the heat shrink that will need to go on.

Cool... Lucky you, your patch harness has removable pins? I had to use electrical tape, which I'm not thrilled about.

vtluu
02-21-2006, 07:01 PM
Cool... Lucky you, your patch harness has removable pins? I had to use electrical tape, which I'm not thrilled about.
What you want to use is self-fusing rubber tape. Go to McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) and look for part number 7682A65. I first got this stuff to seal up the wires for my battery relocation, and it's come in handy many times since. It's like electrical tape but it sticks only to itself. It's very strong, stands up to high temperatures, and doesn't leave any sticky residue when removed. Self-fusing silicone tape would work as well.

Matz
02-21-2006, 07:56 PM
Cool... Lucky you, your patch harness has removable pins? I had to use electrical tape, which I'm not thrilled about.
What you want to use is self-fusing rubber tape. Go to McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) and look for part number 7682A65. I first got this stuff to seal up the wires for my battery relocation, and it's come in handy many times since. It's like electrical tape but it sticks only to itself. It's very strong, stands up to high temperatures, and doesn't leave any sticky residue when removed. Self-fusing silicone tape would work as well.

Oooh NICE! Thanks for the tip. Man, I just ordered a tap from McMaster yesterday. Why didn't you post earlier? :lol: j/k

KevOVIII
02-22-2006, 04:11 PM
Cool... Lucky you, your patch harness has removable pins? I had to use electrical tape, which I'm not thrilled about.

I wish I had removable pins. I tried taking the pins off the connector but had no luck so I used electrical tape. :)




What you want to use is self-fusing rubber tape. Go to McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) and look for part number 7682A65. I first got this stuff to seal up the wires for my battery relocation, and it's come in handy many times since. It's like electrical tape but it sticks only to itself. It's very strong, stands up to high temperatures, and doesn't leave any sticky residue when removed. Self-fusing silicone tape would work as well.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into this the next time I plan on playing with the wires again.



No, I need to figure out how to get a smoother AFR graph. :( http://www.ecuplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=292

earlyapex
02-22-2006, 04:24 PM
No, I need to figure out how to get a smoother AFR graph. :( http://www.ecuplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=292

I'll check out that log when I get home on my windows machine. It almost sounds like ecu+ isn't configured correctly for your LM-1 though. Did you select the right input in ECU+?

I take it you did all this:

"For the Innovative LM-1, a 3.5mm stereo connector provides the output that the ECU+ needs. Pin 1, the connector tip, is analog output 1. Connect this to the ECU+ head unit.

For any of the widebands, be sure that the ground for the controller is identical to the ground on the ECU+ head unit. When your wideband is configured, be sure to not modify any of the factory settings on it with
respect to the output “curve.” The ECU+ is pre-configured to work with the factory output voltages on all of the supported widebands."


I've attached the log file for your viewing pleasure. I set up the knock threshold at 2.0V to put in 10% fuel and take out 5 degrees of timing (will be increasing it to 2.2V next time).

+10% fuel?!?! dood, you want to supress knock, not wash your cylinders! +3 to +4 fuel and -4 timing is enough to feel like a fuel cut so it will no doubt be more then enough to calm the knock.

http://www.brucerobinson.com.au/niagara%20falls.jpg

trinydex
02-26-2006, 08:42 PM
does anyone know how the ecu+ differs from the maftpro in the sense of fuel management? i believe the maftpro acts the same as the safc... does the ecu+ also do this?

is the timing control absolute? or is it a suggested timing value for the stock ecu to add in? if something that the stock ecu usually finds to be bad happens is the stocker able to pull ALL the timing off?

earlyapex
02-26-2006, 10:51 PM
does anyone know how the ecu+ differs from the maftpro in the sense of fuel management? i believe the maftpro acts the same as the safc... does the ecu+ also do this?

same as safc, its an interceptor type device, as are most piggybacks.


is the timing control absolute? or is it a suggested timing value for the stock ecu to add in? if something that the stock ecu usually finds to be bad happens is the stocker able to pull ALL the timing off?

It keeps all the safety of the stock ecu, and the added safety of knock back-off feature of the ECU+.

Not sure if this totally answers your question but this is from the manual:

9.2 The Timing Maps
The timing maps tab lets you configure the ECU+ head unit's timing maps. The timing maps tell the ECU+ head unit how to modify the engine's cam and crank angle sensor signals. When the ECU+ head unit modifies the cam and crank angle sensor signals, it causes the stock ECU to fire the spark plugs either sooner or later than stock, thus affecting the engine timing.

The timing maps contain the same 129 cells that the fuel maps do, corresponding to a given engine load and RPM, and are configured exactly like the fuel maps. The timing maps specify a timing offset of between -15 and +15 degrees, where a positive value causes the spark to fire earlier in the engine cycle, and a negative value causes a later spark. Thus, positive values increase the engine's timing advance, and negative values decrease the engine's timing advance.

trinydex
02-27-2006, 01:28 AM
much thanks, seems there just too many good choices these days. but maftpro is zeitronix friendly... so maybe i'll go with that :\

Matz
02-27-2006, 06:50 AM
much thanks, seems there just too many good choices these days. but maftpro is zeitronix friendly... so maybe i'll go with that :\

Just so you know, the ECU+ is also compatible with Zeitronix, and that's actually the wideband that earlyapex runs in his car.

vtluu
02-27-2006, 10:20 AM
Just so you know, the ECU+ is also compatible with Zeitronix, and that's actually the wideband that earlyapex runs in his car.
+1. Zeitronix + ECU+ FTW! ;)

KevOVIII
02-27-2006, 01:40 PM
I'll check out that log when I get home on my windows machine. It almost sounds like ecu+ isn't configured correctly for your LM-1 though. Did you select the right input in ECU+?

I take it you did all this:

"For the Innovative LM-1, a 3.5mm stereo connector provides the output that the ECU+ needs. Pin 1, the connector tip, is analog output 1. Connect this to the ECU+ head unit.

For any of the widebands, be sure that the ground for the controller is identical to the ground on the ECU+ head unit. When your wideband is configured, be sure to not modify any of the factory settings on it with
respect to the output “curve.” The ECU+ is pre-configured to work with the factory output voltages on all of the supported widebands."


Yup followed the instructions... checked and rechecked everything.

Tom actually had a typo in the instructions. The connector tip is 0-1V. The middle section of the connector is 1-2V, which is the one I used (white wire). He will fix the instructions for the next release.

I used the new firmware he sent me and it's a bit better. The AFR graph is still hard to read because it bounces up and down so much.



+10% fuel?!?! dood, you want to supress knock, not wash your cylinders! +3 to +4 fuel and -4 timing is enough to feel like a fuel cut so it will no doubt be more then enough to calm the knock.


LOL :D That was my first time playing with the knock suppression feature and I wanted to see how it worked.

trinydex
02-27-2006, 02:44 PM
much thanks, seems there just too many good choices these days. but maftpro is zeitronix friendly... so maybe i'll go with that :\

Just so you know, the ECU+ is also compatible with Zeitronix, and that's actually the wideband that earlyapex runs in his car.

well i mean with the egt, cuz it seems there's a slight problem with tapping the egt multiple times? iunno it got confusing when they were discussing it on evom. i'm not sure if it'll be as seemless as i want it to be.... and maftpro just let's you take all the figures from zeitronix.

Matz
02-27-2006, 07:36 PM
I still have to install and run tests, but I installed a bypass capacitor in my ECU+ to reduce the noisy signal. We'll see if that does anything.

trinydex
02-27-2006, 08:50 PM
sounds good, i'm subscribed, i just want to have this well sorted before i make a decision.

are there any rumors of alcohol injection control via ecu+?

Matz
02-28-2006, 07:05 AM
Rumors of NOS and boost control exist. I haven't heard any for alky, but I don't frequent forums much. What about the Snow meth injection kit that has the built in safety mechanism?

KitW
02-28-2006, 01:08 PM
I want it for my IX. :(

KevOVIII
03-01-2006, 03:32 PM
sounds good, i'm subscribed, i just want to have this well sorted before i make a decision.

are there any rumors of alcohol injection control via ecu+?

Tom mentioned NLTS and one more feature being added. He didn't say what that extra feature was, but I don't think it's alky control.

Matz
03-14-2006, 11:44 PM
What you want to use is self-fusing rubber tape. Go to McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) and look for part number 7682A65.

Awesome, I just ordered some, since I'm making a "stealth cover" for my Forge MBC anyway. :thumbsup:

trinydex
03-24-2006, 03:57 PM
Sorry, I meant if you take the ECU out temporarily (I did to take it to WORKS to get it flashed back to stock), you'll see there's a ton of room back there. I contemplated modifying the bracket to make more room for the wires, but that ended up not being necessary. I have the ECU back in place, the ECU+ and ZT2 controller mounted close by, all hidden away, so I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

how do you take out the ecu? is it more up in there, or is it more towards the firewall? i'd like to try this out, how much wire length did you need on your zeitronix hardness?

earlyapex
03-24-2006, 04:08 PM
how do you take out the ecu? is it more up in there, or is it more towards the firewall? i'd like to try this out, how much wire length did you need on your zeitronix hardness?

The ECU is literally right behind the left of the glove box. two screws and it slides out. Easy as pie. Much easier than getting to the freaking ECU in DSMs. :shock: