My dyno results...thoughts?

[Steiner]

So what do you guys think? My mods are a K&N drop-in filter, JDM MR BOV, Tanabe 70mm downpipe, 3" HFC, RS*R ExMag exhaust, EcuTek flash and dyno tune courtesy of Gruppe-S.

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Promo/bashley_dyno.JPG

The first time Mike flashed and tuned the car it didn't have the downpipe and HFC yet. IIRC it put down 232whp/235wtq. We were both sorta suprised by the low numbers. Mike thought the stock cat might have been prematurely failing and preventing him from making consistent power. He suggested a HFC and offered to do the next dynotune for half price so that's what I did. I'm happy with the power increase over stock but my car is the only frame of reference I have. Is my '05 RS a factory dud or are these numbers normal?

[byt]

Superflea put down 235hp/255tq with just the RSR Ex-mag on his 05 VIII. No tune either. Maybe his is a freak? I'll have my results back soon with a similar mod list so that can be another reference.

[V8KiLL3R]

nice numbers! time for some more power......."cams maybe"? :twisted:

[earlyapex]

Looks good to me with basically just a TBE with HFC and ECUtek, your torque curve looks nice. Do you know what your car did 100% bone stock?

I did 257whp/242wtq back when I had basically the same mods but a testpipe which is probably why I did more peak horsepower, but you made more trq, what boost are you running?

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/052805/pull03.gif

[earlyapex]

Superflea put down 235hp/255tq with just the RSR Ex-mag on his 05 VIII. No tune either. Maybe his is a freak? I'll have my results back soon with a similar mod list so that can be another reference.

Be careful about just saying peak numbers. I bet his curves weren't as good as a properly tuned car.

[L84AD8]

You should be able to get more power from that set-up. :roll:

[earlyapex]

You should be able to get more power from that set-up. :roll:

So what did you do on the gruppe-s dyno and with what mods?

[L84AD8]

You should be able to get more power from that set-up. :roll:

So what did you do on the gruppe-s dyno and with what mods?

I never dyno'd over there. But would like to the next time.

[superfleajq]

Superflea put down 235hp/255tq with just the RSR Ex-mag on his 05 VIII. No tune either. Maybe his is a freak? I'll have my results back soon with a similar mod list so that can be another reference.

Well, almost...it was 229.8whp and 252.0wtq...Now that I have the P2 (thanks Tam!!), we'll see if it improves much tomorrow. I'll also post my graphs from the first gruppe-s dyno and tomorrow's (going back to gruppe-s tomorrow morning for another dyno).

Still, I'm surprised at your #s, steiner. I would think that with the HFC (and your other mods, of course) that you'd be making a bit more power than that. Since we have the same exhaust, and we both have 05's, you're the cloest car I can compare to at the moment. But then, there are many factors that play into varying dyno numbers...so who knows!

[MarkSAE]

Which high flow cat did you get? Have you checked for any boost leaks?

[wilson1]

steiner,

It seems kinda low, at the last dyno day, at least 2 05 evo 8, gets at least 235, and it was a hot day.

[Steiner]

L84AD8...the Gruppe-S dyno can be like a slice of humble pie. It's why discussing this stuff on EvoM usually becomes pointless unless somebody from the Bay Area is in on the discussion. Check out this thread to see how conservative the numbers are...

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7685&highlight=


Looks good to me with basically just a TBE with HFC and ECUtek, your torque curve looks nice. Do you know what your car did 100% bone stock?

I did 257whp/242wtq back when I had basically the same mods but a testpipe which is probably why I did more peak horsepower, but you made more trq, what boost are you running?
Thanks Bryan. Unfortunately I never did see a baseline dyno. The first numbers I ever saw on paper were what Mike handed me after he had just tuned it with the CB exhaust. Both times Gruppe-S has tuned the car they didn't plot boost on a corresponding graph. Next time I gotta remember to remind them beforehand though. Based on my experiences on the road in 3rd and 4th gear, I'm seeing a spike to 23-24psi and the car holding 19-20psi to redline. Looking at the boost gauge in 1st or 2nd at WOT scares the crap out of me though. The combination of the added torque, a little torque steer and the uber quick steering rack requires both eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel. :shock:

BTW...I noticed in the dyno notes that you had an MBC on the car when you put down 258whp/242wtq. It also says your MR is an '04 so...LOL...did you really have an MBC at the time? I'm wondering if an EBC and Walbro might be the next step for me before injectors and cams.


...it was 229.8whp and 252.0wtq...Now that I have the P2 (thanks Tam!!), we'll see if it improves much tomorrow. I'll also post my graphs from the first gruppe-s dyno and tomorrow's (going back to gruppe-s tomorrow morning for another dyno).

Still, I'm surprised at your #s, steiner. I would think that with the HFC (and your other mods, of course) that you'd be making a bit more power than that. Since we have the same exhaust, and we both have 05's, you're the cloest car I can compare to at the moment. But then, there are many factors that play into varying dyno numbers...so who knows!
Yeah it's a little wierd. I don't feel betrayed or shortchanged by any means though. The car pulls hard. I'm just curious to see what people think. When you go full TBE we'll have to compare the numbers again.

The HFC is an Ultimate Racing 3". No CEL's so far. As far as boost leaks...I've never checked. The car has almost 20k miles though so maybe I'll check for that this weekend. Is everything accesible...throttle body, hotside IC, coldside IC, turbo...without putting the car on a lift?

[earlyapex]

BTW...I noticed in the dyno notes that you had an MBC on the car when you put down 258whp/242wtq. It also says your MR is an '04 so...LOL...did you really have an MBC at the time? I'm wondering if an EBC and Walbro might be the next step for me before injectors and cams.


Yes, MBC, and Mike typed in the year wrong, it's an 05 MR. You have boost controlled via the ECUtek don't you? Basically the same thing. I honestly think your curves and numbers are fine for the mods you have.

People really need to look beyond peak numbers and look at curves. It is hard sometimes since we don't see alot of overlayed graphs.

Here is a good example. When I installed my cams, if I just looked at my peak torque numbers, I would be disapointed that I only gained 4 more at peak torque, but if you look more closely at the before and after via an overlay, you can see I gained almost +25wtq in some spots:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/120205/stockcamsVS272s.gif

And then after some more tuning:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/010706/ecuplus_overlay02.gif

I really wish more people did dyno overlays. It would help people understand a bit more.

[KevOVIII]

As far as boost leaks...I've never checked. The car has almost 20k miles though so maybe I'll check for that this weekend. Is everything accesible...throttle body, hotside IC, coldside IC, turbo...without putting the car on a lift?

Get a 2.5" ID hose (you can head to Napa for this), get a tire valve stem (rubber one works fine), head over to Home Depot with your 2.5" ID hose and pick up a cap that will fit inside. Oh... pick up some hose clamps if you don't have any.

Next, push the cap into the hose and clamp it down. Drill a hole big enough for the tire valve stem to go through (not too large though).

Once you've gotten that part finished, take off your intake snorkle, intake box (with MAF), and intake hose. You'll then want to put the hose onto the turbo with cap/stem facing you. Clamp it down.

Assuming you have an air compressor, adjust it so that it's 20 psi and start it up. While you're doing that, loosen the oil cap. Once the compressor is finished, hook it up to the valve stem.

You'll need to go back and forth checking your boost gauge while filling the piping with compressed air. Feel/hear for leaks at every connection. You can even use soapy water around the connections to see if it bubbles.

That's basically the jist of it. No need for a lift but it will help if you have the car on jack stands so you can check the LICP.

[KevOVIII]

I really wish more people did dyno overlays. It would help people understand a bit more.

Are there run files for the MD like there are for DynoJets?

[earlyapex]

Are there run files for the MD like there are for DynoJets?

Yes there are but I don't think MD offers software freely to the public like dynojet does. I already asked Mike@gruppe-s about this. The best thing to do is always ask for the before and after dyno pulls to be overlayed onto one additional printout.

[Steiner]

Yes the EcuTek is controlling boost. Mike also used a new kind of restrictor pill on my car the last tune. It sounded like something he came up with on his own and I was happy to be a guinea pig. I'm assuming the addition of an EBC would basically be redundant then? It seems like I've read about a lot of people running boost controllers on EcuTek flashed cars so that's why I was curious.

Just to reiterate...I'm very happy with the car and made sure to tell Mike exactly that about a week after he tuned it. The torque is awesome and it makes the car much funner around town. The broader power band is very noticeable and with a safe AFR I know I'm not driving around on borrowed time either.

BTW...thanks for the info Kev. :bow:

[earlyapex]

Just to reiterate...I'm very happy with the car and made sure to tell Mike exactly that about a week after he tuned it. The torque is awesome and it makes the car much funner around town. The broader power band is very noticeable and with a safe AFR I know I'm not driving around on borrowed time either.

BTW...thanks for the info Kev. :bow:

Yea, the way Mike sets up his Ecutek, you have no reason to go to a MBC. Mike is a great tuner, he knows his stuff and tunes for power but keeps it safe. Out of curiousity, what AFR did he tune it for?

Your torque really is nice, that torque curve probably feels great around town.

[KevOVIII]

Yes there are but I don't think MD offers software freely to the public like dynojet does. I already asked Mike@gruppe-s about this. The best thing to do is always ask for the before and after dyno pulls to be overlayed onto one additional printout.

Gotcha, thanks. I usually overlay them in Photoshop. :D


You're welcome, Steiner. :)

[Steiner]

Out of curiousity, what AFR did he tune it for?
It was between 10.8 and 11.2 from 3k RPM's to redline IIRC.

[L84AD8]

L84AD8...the Gruppe-S dyno can be like a slice of humble pie. It's why discussing this stuff on EvoM usually becomes pointless unless somebody from the Bay Area is in on the discussion. Check out this thread to see how conservative the numbers are...

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7685&highlight=



I know I know. I read up on the dyno charts posted on here with what mods and the amount of increase they gain from baseline. I haven't gotten a chance to dyno there yet. Will do it mos def on their next dyno day fo sho. :wink: 8)

Btw, there's more humble pie at the EIP meet this weekend. :P

[superfleajq]

OK, got back from gruppe-s this morning and scanned my dyno sheet in:

top one is my original (Mods: RS*R Exmag), bottom one is todays (Mods: RS*R Exmag, Blitz drop-in, WORKS P2)

http://home.comcast.net/~fleaspix/evo/dyno_051119.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~fleaspix/evo/dyno_060126.jpg

Regading earlyapex's comments about looking at peak numbers vs the curve, he's definitely correct, as my peak #s aren't much higher (229.6hp to 241.9hp and 252.0tq to 256.1tq), but certainly there are areas under the curve where I have gained 20+hp and 15+tq. Can't do the overlay, unfortunately, since the first graph's scale is from 0-250, and the new one is from 0-300.

For comparison's sake, your dyno here, Steiner. Both our HP and TQ curves look pretty similar!
http://www.gruppe-s.com/Promo/bashley_dyno.JPG

[rodw]

How's about the AFR graph?

[KevOVIII]

Here's the overlay, superfleajq... as close to being scaled correctly as I can get.

http://home.comcast.net/~y2kevse/images/superfleajq_overlay.jpg

[Steiner]

superfleajq...so you're still on the stock cat and downpipe?

[superfleajq]

superfleajq...so you're still on the stock cat and downpipe?

yea, the only mods I have are the ones listed (exmag, drop-in, P2)

[earlyapex]

superfleajq...so you're still on the stock cat and downpipe?

yea, the only mods I have are the ones listed (exmag, drop-in, P2)

Get a DP and HFC or TP and your HP won't drop off as much up top.

[Steiner]

Hmmm. Nice numbers. I wonder why your power with just a CB is the same as mine with a full TBE. Maybe the P2 is a little better than the EcuTek? Shit I dunno. Part of me says I should just be happy and drive the car, but another part of me wants to know why my numbers aren't where they should be.

[MitsuMan]

stock cat prematurely failing? uh huh yea shure it is. thats it :roll:

[earlyapex]

Hmmm. Nice numbers. I wonder why your power with just a CB is the same as mine with a full TBE. Maybe the P2 is a little better than the EcuTek? Shit I dunno. Part of me says I should just be happy and drive the car, but another part of me wants to know why my numbers aren't where they should be.

Some cars are just stronger than others. I have seen some 04's dyno 195 on the gruppe-s dyno. :oops:

[Liquid-R1]

I just had my car dyno'd today. It's an '05 with HKS Intake, Works P2 Flash, Megan TBE, & Helix HFC. I got 260whp @ 7000rpm, and 256lbs/ft at 4000rpm if I remember correctly. I will post up the charts later tonight.

[Steiner]

I just had my car dyno'd today. It's an '05 with HKS Intake, Works P2 Flash, Megan TBE, & Helix HFC. I got 260whp @ 7000rpm, and 256lbs/ft at 4000rpm if I remember correctly. I will post up the charts later tonight.
Where did you have it dyno'd?

[earlyapex]

I just had my car dyno'd today. It's an '05 with HKS Intake, Works P2 Flash, Megan TBE, & Helix HFC. I got 260whp @ 7000rpm, and 256lbs/ft at 4000rpm if I remember correctly. I will post up the charts later tonight.
Where did you have it dyno'd?

I think it was at gruppe-s.

I am the all seeing eye. 8)

[Liquid-R1]

I just had my car dyno'd today. It's an '05 with HKS Intake, Works P2 Flash, Megan TBE, & Helix HFC. I got 260whp @ 7000rpm, and 256lbs/ft at 4000rpm if I remember correctly. I will post up the charts later tonight.
Where did you have it dyno'd?

I think it was at gruppe-s.

I am the all seeing eye. 8)

Haha, that or you were there... :D

Steiner, yah it was at Gruppe-S

[superfleajq]

BYT had his car dyno'd right after mine...

he has RMR catback, WORKS P2, JDM MR DV, and a tanabe dp (maybe a diff brand, forgot..).

I believe his car put down 250whp, 264wtq...hope he posts up his charts tonight so I can see again! 8)

[earlyapex]

My best on the gruppe-s dyno before cams and other stuff was

271whp/269wtq (EDIT: Checked my dyno charts, numbers edited.)

That was with TBE, FP, 720cc, SAFC, MBC

You guys aren't too far off

[Steiner]

Damn I'm so jealous of you guys. My car sucks. I'll check for boost leaks this weekend and cry like a bitch in the meantime. :cry:

[byt]

BYT had his car dyno'd right after mine...

he has RMR catback, WORKS P2, JDM MR DV, and a tanabe dp (maybe a diff brand, forgot..).

I believe his car put down 250whp, 264wtq...hope he posts up his charts tonight so I can see again! 8)

Yup, flea has a better memory than mine apparently. You can check out my charts here:

http://norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8247

[earlyapex]

Damn I'm so jealous of you guys. My car sucks. I'll check for boost leaks this weekend and cry like a bitch in the meantime. :cry:

Why? You car is making the right power for your mods to me. Remember every car is different, some are stronger, some are weaker.

[MitsuMan]

yea your right in the ball park man I think I put down 240hp when I had my exhaust and tune

[Steiner]

Damn I'm so jealous of you guys. My car sucks. I'll check for boost leaks this weekend and cry like a bitch in the meantime. :cry:

Why? You car is making the right power for your mods to me. Remember every car is different, some are stronger, some are weaker.
You're right. One of these days I'll land a factory freak. Not this time though. Maybe I need NAWS yo!

http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/cobra/wrecks/naws.jpg

[Liquid-R1]

Ok, here's the runs. 1st Run

http://home.comcast.net/~ktsau/Dyno1.jpg

[Liquid-R1]

and the AFR's.

http://home.comcast.net/~ktsau/AF1.jpg

[Liquid-R1]

2nd run.

http://home.comcast.net/~ktsau/Dyno2.jpg

[earlyapex]

Interesting, you have a HFC cat but your AFR's seem normal but some other WORKS p2 owners have insanely lean AFR's with HFC.

Was this a road tune or a off-the-shelf P2?

[KevOVIII]

3 pod ricer gauges? :shock:

[MarkSAE]

Liquid-R1's AFR curve looks identical to mine, w/ a small spike to 11.6 at 6k rpm. I have a Helix HFC and P2 as well.

[Liquid-R1]

Interesting, you have a HFC cat but your AFR's seem normal but some other WORKS p2 owners have insanely lean AFR's with HFC.

Was this a road tune or a off-the-shelf P2?

This was off the shelf. No road tune.

[Liquid-R1]

3 pod ricer gauges? :shock:

Haha. We were joking around when we filled out the release form and put that in as a mod. Mike said he would add it in on the chart.

[YankInCali]

3 pod ricer gauges? :shock:

Haha. We were joking around when we filled out the release form and put that in as a mod. Mike said he would add it in on the chart.

Liquid-R1, it is was cool meeting you and your friend yesterday at Gruppe-S!
At least you know it's your "ricer gauges" that were off and not something else!! Hehe.

[Option2]

The guys @ WORKS need to take a look at my car.
Here's mine:
Works P2, Works 269 Cams, Works Throttle Body, RMR DP, UR HFC, Fujitsubo RM01A

Run1
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run1a.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run1b.JPG

Run2
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run2a.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run2b.JPG

Run3
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run3a.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~jay-padilla/run3b.JPG

[earlyapex]

The guys @ WORKS need to take a look at my car.
Here's mine:
Works P2, Works 269 Cams, Works Throttle Body, RMR DP, UR HFC, Fujitsubo RM01A

I have a sneaking suspicion that WORKS is being a bit more aggressive with their tunes now.

Nevertheless, you are on a 9.8 hotside right? I would think the Cams would overcome that difference and at least make better numbers then these newer WORKS tuned cars. :shock:

[Option2]

The guys @ WORKS need to take a look at my car.
Here's mine:
Works P2, Works 269 Cams, Works Throttle Body, RMR DP, UR HFC, Fujitsubo RM01A

I have a sneaking suspicion that WORKS is being a bit more aggressive with their tunes now.

Nevertheless, you are on a 9.8 hotside right? I would think the Cams would overcome that difference and at least make better numbers then these newer WORKS tuned cars. :shock:

Yes I am. Maybe I should get a ECU+ to supplement the P2. Are you game Bryan? :twisted:

[MarkSAE]

Let's not forget that the 10.5 hotside allows you to tune more aggressively. This is probably why Mitsu raised the boost slightly in the 05s. The stock 03-04 timing maps are the same as the 05s.

[earlyapex]

Yes I am. Maybe I should get a ECU+ to supplement the P2. Are you game Bryan? :twisted:

I think you should get what you payed for. That is basically a TR340 right? You're missing like 30whp. I would talk to WORKS and ask where it is.

If they can't find it, then I would look into other solutions.

[Option2]

Yes I am. Maybe I should get a ECU+ to supplement the P2. Are you game Bryan? :twisted:

I think you should get what you payed for. That is basically a TR340 right? You're missing like 30whp. I would talk to WORKS and ask where it is.

If they can't find it, then I would look into other solutions.

Agreed. In fact I have an appt with them tomorrow.

[EvoKid]

I never dynoed at GRUPPE-S, but I dynoed at Full Function, which also has a Mustang Dyno. My 05 GSR dynoed 232HP/233TQ with JDM MR DV & HKS panel filter in the middle of August. Just throwin' this out there for reference.

[Option2]

OK I figured out why I have low numbers for the mods I have. It turns out that I have low compression on #4. WORKS did a leak down test and found out that there is an issue with my exhaust valves. They opened up the valve cover and found that the valve guides on the exhaust valves for #4 were worn out unevenly causing about 1mm of play. With the valve rattling around like that the valve was not able to seat properly. Thank god I took my car to Gruppe-s for a baseline run. It was Mike that noticed my car "didn't sound right" at idle when he drove my car up on to the dyno. LOL considering my car was running on 3 1/2 cylinders.....it still ran pretty well.

[wilson1]

OK I figured out why I have low numbers for the mods I have. It turns out that I have low compression on #4. WORKS did a leak down test and found out that there is an issue with my exhaust valves. They opened up the valve cover and found that the valve guides on the exhaust valves for #4 were worn out unevenly causing about 1mm of play. With the valve rattling around like that the valve was not able to seat properly. Thank god I took my car to Gruppe-s for a baseline run. It was Mike that noticed my car "didn't sound right" at idle when he drove my car up on to the dyno. LOL considering my car was running on 3 1/2 cylinders.....it still ran pretty well.

So what you going to do?

[Option2]

The head is getting rebuilt and hopefully I get the car back by the end of the week.

[wilson1]

are you going to port and polish it?
Who's doing it?