PDA

View Full Version : Stock Turbo EVO, 91 Octane & Methanol (Torque monster!)



Gruppe-S
02-04-2006, 06:28 PM
Hey guys,

We just finished tuning out a Methanol injection car on the stock turbocharger. We are quite pleased with the results, not as a big top end power car, but as a torque monster than has an insane midrange power band. Since this car is 100% street car running 100% on 91 octane pump gas (and methanol) 320whp and 298.5 ft/lbs of torque definitely makes this car a formidable street car.

I have placed the dynograph against a GT3076R car running pure 91 octane. Comparing the graphs you will notice the area under the curve is almost identical, with the stock turbo car putting down MORE torque than the GT3076. Keep in mind that a GT3076 on methonal only makes about 380whp on our dyno. :)

This tune is only safely possible with an Ecutek type setup. The last reflash system we had that most other dealers are using (Techtom) simply cannot provide the safety and reliability that the Ecutek system can (and that's why we scrapped it).

As a shameless plug, we are offering the Methanol injection system with build in failsafe at $499 Shipped. :D

Cheers,

Gary
www.gruppe-s.com
[email protected]
510-783-5300
510-783-4300 fax

http://www.gruppe-s.com/stuff/GT30RvMethanol.jpg

earlyapex
02-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Nice numbers and curves!

Mikes' da man.

Lurk
02-04-2006, 10:39 PM
Sick! Looks like I'll be getting that for my new MR! :wink:

wilson1
02-04-2006, 11:31 PM
is it a evo 8 or 9 stock turbo?

GST
02-04-2006, 11:47 PM
is it a evo 8 or 9 stock turbo?

Evo 8.

wilson1
02-05-2006, 01:12 AM
wow, wondered what it would do on the evo 9!

L84AD8
02-05-2006, 01:15 AM
wow, wondered what it would do on the evo 9!

buy it wilson and you shall find out! :P 8)

wilson1
02-05-2006, 01:18 AM
what kind of mods are on that evo 8?

wilson1
02-05-2006, 01:19 AM
wow, wondered what it would do on the evo 9!

buy it wilson and you shall find out! :P 8)

:lol:

Evo442
02-05-2006, 09:01 AM
This tune is only safely possible with an Ecutek type setup. The last reflash system we had that most other dealers are using (Techtom) simply cannot provide the safety and reliability that the Ecutek system can (and that's why we scrapped it).



Can you please elaborate further on this statement? My understanding is/was that the Techtom and Ecutek products both have the same capabilities. What is it that you can do with the ecutek that you cannot do with the techtom product?

Evotech8
02-05-2006, 09:46 AM
Yeah, what mods are on the evo8?
'Stock' is a vague term.

earlyapex
02-05-2006, 10:39 AM
I believe it's and 05 and has TBE / Cams / ECUTEK / other supporting mods.

Matz
02-05-2006, 10:41 AM
So if someone has an ECU+ on top of a stock flash, he can't run the methanol kit safely?

KevOVIII
02-05-2006, 12:27 PM
Mike did an excellent job tuning that car.

Here are overlays of his tune versus the road tune (23 psi) and my AFR tweak (25 psi). Notice how the road tune and AFR tweak hit a brick wall in the upper RPMs.

Did the car have an aftermarket intake?


DynoFlash 23 peak psi road tune
http://home.comcast.net/~y2kevse/images/DynoFlash23vMethanol.jpg

My AFR tweaks with S-AFC II at 25 peak psi
http://home.comcast.net/~y2kevse/images/DynoFlash25vMethanol.jpg

Stormtrooper
02-05-2006, 12:29 PM
uggg.... these are the posts that ruin my budget even more :shock:

earlyapex
02-05-2006, 04:22 PM
Mike did an excellent job tuning that car.


Agreed!

Since we are doing overlays, I overlayed my last 91 and 100 octane tune over this Meth tuned car.

I think mike and I tune almost exactly the same since our curves are almost 100% exactly identical, which is kinda spooky actually. :shock:

Except my chart seems to have a different spool curve which might be the difference between what we are using to control boost.

Check it out, my 100 octane curves are the higher ones obviously (the ones which follow mike's colored curves)

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/100vsMeth.gif



Did the car have an aftermarket intake?


I don't think that has much to do with the topend, I have the stock airbox and filter and my topend doesn't begin to drop off till almost 7k.

wilson1
02-05-2006, 05:04 PM
How safe is this to run on track?

earlyapex
02-05-2006, 07:05 PM
How safe is this to run on track?

alky/meth/water injection is safe as long as you don't:

1. Run out of fluid
2. Run too low on fluid and slosh in a high-G turn and then see #1
3. Something happens with the nozzle or line or pump

It sounds like the Snow Performance kit does have a failsafe though so YMMV.

KevOVIII
02-05-2006, 08:39 PM
Agreed!

Since we are doing overlays, I overlayed my last 91 and 100 octane tune over this Meth tuned car.

I think mike and I tune almost exactly the same since our curves are almost 100% exactly identical, which is kinda spooky actually. :shock:

Except my chart seems to have a different spool curve which might be the difference between what we are using to control boost.

Check it out, my 100 octane curves are the higher ones obviously (the ones which follow mike's colored curves)

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/100vsMeth.gif

I don't think that has much to do with the topend, I have the stock airbox and filter and my topend doesn't begin to drop off till almost 7k.

Yeah, your tune is almost spot on with Mike's meth tune.

I couldn't remember if you had an aftermarket intake or not but I do remember that your curves don't fall flat on their faces up top like mine do. Can't wait to get the ECU+ but Dan hasn't received a new shipment yet. :(

Jamie@WORKS
02-06-2006, 02:00 PM
This tune is only safely possible with an Ecutek type setup. The last reflash system we had that most other dealers are using (Techtom) simply cannot provide the safety and reliability that the Ecutek system can (and that's why we scrapped it).



Can you please elaborate further on this statement? My understanding is/was that the Techtom and Ecutek products both have the same capabilities. What is it that you can do with the ecutek that you cannot do with the techtom product?

Yes, could you elaborate on this? While Techtom presents a steeper learning curve for the programmer, it is at least on par with EcuTek. Ultimately, the Techtom provides more flexibility provided the programmer can locate, decipher and adjust the appropriate maps (vs. EcuTek handing you the maps in a nice color-coded layout). Can you program an '03 or '04 ECU with the 2-stage rev limiter from '05+ w/ EcuTek? No, but it's possible with the Techtom and WORKS has been doing so for well over a year.

Don't get me wrong, both have advantages and we tune with both. However, neither is inferior and WORKS customers end up with the "same" software regardless of what tool is being used to flash the ECU.

GST
02-06-2006, 04:38 PM
This tune is only safely possible with an Ecutek type setup. The last reflash system we had that most other dealers are using (Techtom) simply cannot provide the safety and reliability that the Ecutek system can (and that's why we scrapped it).



Can you please elaborate further on this statement? My understanding is/was that the Techtom and Ecutek products both have the same capabilities. What is it that you can do with the ecutek that you cannot do with the techtom product?

Yes, could you elaborate on this? While Techtom presents a steeper learning curve for the programmer, it is at least on par with EcuTek. Ultimately, the Techtom provides more flexibility provided the programmer can locate, decipher and adjust the appropriate maps (vs. EcuTek handing you the maps in a nice color-coded layout). Can you program an '03 or '04 ECU with the 2-stage rev limiter from '05+ w/ EcuTek? No, but it's possible with the Techtom and WORKS has been doing so for well over a year.

Don't get me wrong, both have advantages and we tune with both. However, neither is inferior and WORKS customers end up with the "same" software regardless of what tool is being used to flash the ECU.

Jamie, I think what Gary was getting at is given most people using the Techtom software don't have nearly the amount of mapping capabilities that those using the EcuTek software do not because of the lack of support of the Techtom but the lack of experience finding where the maps are and what they translate to by the tuners/users.

Incidently yes we do have the ability to use stationary launch control on the MY03/MY04 and have been using it since November on our shop car, what version of software are you using?

Mike

Jamie@WORKS
02-08-2006, 02:20 PM
Jamie, I think what Gary was getting at is given most people using the Techtom software don't have nearly the amount of mapping capabilities that those using the EcuTek software do not because of the lack of support of the Techtom but the lack of experience finding where the maps are and what they translate to by the tuners/users.

Incidently yes we do have the ability to use stationary launch control on the MY03/MY04 and have been using it since November on our shop car, what version of software are you using?

Mike

That's what I was looking for. I guess being the first in the US to decipher and flash the EVO's ECU has some advantages.

We are using the latest version of EcuTek. WORKS actually discovered the newest program in the IX and sent that info across the pond a few weeks ago. I wasn't aware of the stationary launch control being available now (as I'm not a software engineer). WORKS has been doing it with the Techtom since November as well... November '04 that is ;)

GST
02-08-2006, 02:41 PM
[quote="GST"]That's what I was looking for. I guess being the first in the US to decipher and flash the EVO's ECU has some advantages.

We are using the latest version of EcuTek. WORKS actually discovered the newest program in the IX and sent that info across the pond a few weeks ago. I wasn't aware of the stationary launch control being available now (as I'm not a software engineer). WORKS has been doing it with the Techtom since November as well... November '04 that is ;)

Awesome congrats!

Mike