Oil pan question..

[Jay]

I've searched around but haven't seen any, do does anyone make a good aftermarket oil pan for the Evo 8 with good internal baffles and maybe some extra capacity?

[earlyapex]

Call RRE and ask about one.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/evo.htm

[wilson1]

Please let us know once you findout, jay! :D

[MarkSAE]

What's wrong w/ the stock one?

[Jay]

What's wrong w/ the stock one?
Just looking for somthing with internal baffeling to keep the oil pick up wet under very high G cornering. Plus maybe some extra volume and race car bling of having a groovy oil pan.

[MarkSAE]

Just looking for somthing with internal baffeling to keep the oil pick up wet under very high G cornering. Plus maybe some extra volume and race car bling of having a groovy oil pan.

I hear ya. The thought of oil starvation at high rpm under a high g corner does sound kinda scary.

[Jay]

yup..
and Just like brakes, i feel you can never over do your oiling system.

[earlyapex]

I don't think you'll ever have a problem with that unless you are running real slicks at the track.

Either way, I am sure RRE has built, sells, or knows something about it. Give them a call.

[Jay]

Ill call them up tommorow..
Ive also tossed out a few e-mails to some other places, Ill see what they have to say.

[Jay]

I haven't called RRE yet.
I have sent out e-mails and phone calls to a few places, and basicly the responce I got back was that there is no demand.

[StockEVO]

What's wrong with the stock one? Even with slicks, if you check your oil before heading out the track. Oil starvation shouldn't be a problem. But if there are alot of interest like the 1G DSM. I'm sure I can convince Moroso to make one for the EVO.

[drunk monkey]

What's wrong with the stock one? Even with slicks, if you check your oil before heading out the track. Oil starvation shouldn't be a problem. But if there are alot of interest like the 1G DSM. I'm sure I can convince Moroso to make one for the EVO.

but if the oil stays on one side of the pan while in a high g corner, it dont matter if your oil levels is correct. that oil pick up wont get anything.

Carlo

[StockEVO]

rlab63075: like people say they need Stoptechs when their Brembo calipers are still bright red!


but if the oil stays on one side of the pan while in a high g corner, it dont matter if your oil levels is correct. that oil pick up wont get anything.

Carlo

[Jay]

My personal reason for wanting this is not that I see the OEM set up is bad.
I just feel overkill in the oiling system and cooling system is good.

[earlyapex]

rlab63075: like people say they need Stoptechs when their Brembo calipers are still bright red!


:shock:

[dohcvtec]

What's wrong with the stock one? Even with slicks, if you check your oil before heading out the track. Oil starvation shouldn't be a problem. But if there are alot of interest like the 1G DSM. I'm sure I can convince Moroso to make one for the EVO.
I have a Moroso pan on my Honda, but I was losing oil pressure on high G turns (specifically turn 2 at T-Hill). Its a great pan, but if your oil pressure is not changing on high G corners like that, its a waste of money.

[earlyapex]

My personal reason for wanting this is not that I see the OEM set up is bad.
I just feel overkill in the oiling system and cooling system is good.

It's pre-overkilled from the factory.

Have you heard of anyone overheating the car at the track? Or losing oil pressure?

I have done a ton of track events in the dead of summer, 100+ degrees and my water temp has never gone into danger zone. Oil temp got a little toasty but nothing to be worried about.

Done countless 90+ mph sweepers at WOT with R-compounds and my engine is still in one piece.

The evo has amazing cooling and airflow from the factory. Almost like the car was built with something in mind...

[StockEVO]

The problem is that you drive a Honda, nothing more than an oversize generator with a transmission attach to it. :shock:


I have a Moroso pan on my Honda generator

[earlyapex]

The problem is that you drive a Honda, nothing more than an oversize generator with a transmission attach to it. :shock:


Says the man with the toaster on wheels.

[dohcvtec]

The problem is that you drive a Honda, nothing more than an oversize generator with a transmission attach to it. :shock:


Says the man with the toaster on wheels.
haha!

[StockEVO]

white or wheat?

[StockEVO]

I took some picture of an EVO oil pan right before the boys here going to seal it up on a new stroker.

As you can see it comes pretty well baffled from factory. Lower left, where the big round hole is. Is where the oil pick up sit.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0310.JPG

Here's a close up shot of where the oil pick up goes.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0311.JPG

Another shot.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0313.JPG

You can see where Mitsu spot weld the baffle to the upper lid of the pan.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0314.JPG

And even the oil pick have it's own "baffle". Alot better design than the 1g/2g DSM.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0315.JPG

Another shot, windage tray.
http://www.race-works.com/user/NCE/EVO_oil_pan/IMG_0316.JPG

So what's wrong with the stock one again?

[earlyapex]

hahaha, like I said,

It's almost like Mitsubishi built this car for a purpose...

[dohcvtec]

Impressive! :)
I guess that explains why there is no demand. Unless its like buying an aftermarket front strut bar to replace the stock one? haha.

[methods4]

So what's wrong with the stock one again?

Same reason people like to change out their stock strut tower bars, shiny red Brembos, or add Vortex Generators.....Because they think they need it?

[dohcvtec]

So what's wrong with the stock one again?

Same reason people like to change out their stock strut tower bars,
already stated fool!

[methods4]

Scary that me and honduh boi are thinking alike.

Sooooo....who's up for a group buy on WORKS strut tower bars!

[StockEVO]

I couldn't agree with you more. But it's all about being bling.

Aftermarket strut bar make as much sense as having gold teeths.
http://www.ncgangcops.org/images/clothing/teeth.jpg


Impressive! :)
I guess that explains why there is no demand. Unless its like buying an aftermarket front strut bar to replace the stock one? haha.

[dohcvtec]

Rob a jewelry store and tell em make me a grill.

[drunk monkey]

nothing wrong with it. :P


but.... hehe theres always a but....


now i know you and others havent experienced any problems but i think your cars are daily drivers. how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?

[dohcvtec]

By looking at just the pictures of that pan, I would say yes. I'm a believer in replace parts that only need replacing. Hence, if you have an oil starvation issue, evident by low pressure readings on sweeper turns, then yes you'll need to fab more baffles for your already stock baffled pan. If your pressure remains ok, leave it. I don't see the sense in replacing parts for "just in case" when it is something that can be monitored via oil pressure guage before something catastrophic happens.

[earlyapex]

now i know you and others havent experienced any problems but i think your cars are daily drivers. how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?

Is yours a purpose built track car? Kent Jordan, Navid and all the other guys with purpose built race cars are running the OEM pans with no problem.

Everyone thinks their car is a race car though.

[StockEVO]

In my happy little mind my toaster is a race car. It does 0-60 in 3.2 sec. Top speed of 220mph, get's 33mpg EPA rating, and dyno over 750hp to the front wheel on pump gas; Arco 87 octane.

Here's a picture of my toaster at Thunderhill.
http://galeria.forocoches.com/data/500/Renault_Espace_F1_04.jpg

Here's another shot with my two kids.
http://img160.echo.cx/img160/9871/mfespacef1aredimensionner25tk.jpg

And here is what she look like at the dealer before I took delivery.
http://webservice.naweb.cc/ezboard/system/db/gallery3/upload/39/1007965735/1996_RENAULT_ESPACE_F1.JPG


now i know you and others havent experienced any problems but i think your cars are daily drivers. how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?

[methods4]

Here's another shot with my two kids.
http://img160.echo.cx/img160/9871/mfespacef1aredimensionner25tk.jpg

Hrm. I'm willing to bet your mailman has blonde hair.

[Jay]

I've talked to a few people that open track there cars and have lost a motor or 2 to them.
like I said, its not cause I feel that overkill on the oiling and cooling system is fine.

[earlyapex]

I've talked to a few people that open track there cars and have lost a motor or 2 to them.
like I said, its not cause I feel that overkill on the oiling and cooling system is fine.

From oil starvation? Evos? Because of oil slosh or because of not checking their oil after every session?

I've done over 10 events with my EVO with no problems. From 106F summer events to 60F rainy days and everything inbetween. Most with 30min sessions with one cool down lap per session.

Give us some more info when you post stuff like that.

[StockEVO]

I heard on the internet that Milodon is making some crazy oil pan for the EVO. Supposed to hold something like 12 quarts of oil and Moroso is making a kit to convert your wet sump to a dry sump system.

[Jay]

I've talked to a few people that open track there cars and have lost a motor or 2 to them.
like I said, its not cause I feel that overkill on the oiling and cooling system is fine.

From oil starvation? Evos? Because of oil slosh or because of not checking their oil after every session?

I've done over 10 events with my EVO with no problems. From 106F summer events to 60F rainy days and everything inbetween. Most with 30min sessions with one cool down lap per session.

Give us some more info when you post stuff like that.
Oil slosh..not due to the fact that they ran out of oil.

[earlyapex]

Oil slosh..not due to the fact that they ran out of oil.

Who?

[StockEVO]

My friend's homie, brother's dad, sister in law, uncle to my aunt, and friend of a good friend, who father 2 kids, and their friends, I frequent on EVOm who told me they blew up 2 EVO's at the track. Other than that, it's just heresay. :D


Who?

[drunk monkey]

now i know you and others havent experienced any problems but i think your cars are daily drivers. how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?

Is yours a purpose built track car? Kent Jordan, Navid and all the other guys with purpose built race cars are running the OEM pans with no problem.

Everyone thinks their car is a race car though.



my car is not a purpose built track car, i drive my car to work and back. im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


Carlo


Carlo

[dohcvtec]

now i know you and others havent experienced any problems but i think your cars are daily drivers. how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?

Is yours a purpose built track car? Kent Jordan, Navid and all the other guys with purpose built race cars are running the OEM pans with no problem.

Everyone thinks their car is a race car though.



my car is not a purpose built track car, i drive my car to work and back. im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


Carlo


Carlo
And what does that have to do with oil? Do fabricated parts allow a car to handle more lateral G's causing oil starvation? :?

[earlyapex]

im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


So am I:

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/kent_jordan/DSCN1687.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/kent_jordan/DSCN1688.JPG

Oh look! A factory Strut bar!
http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/kent_jordan/DSCN1690.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/albums/kent_jordan/DSCN1696.JPG

That said, I am not 100% sure that the oil pan is not modified on that car. Maybe Mueller can chime in?

[StockEVO]

So your car is a disco street machine and you like to talk about fabbing up custom oil pan because the stock one suck?

If you're going great length to remedy one "problem", why not convert the stock wet sump to a dry sump system? Most part to do the conversion can be bought through Jegs or Summit. Wait.....since you're at it. Ditch the shitty stock transmission and get an XTrac transmission, convert your fuel system to a methonal only, ditch that crappy front mount and get an air/water heat exhanger and hang some crazy GT-35BLT-RR-800HP.0091 turbo. Wait.....Let's talk about how we should ditch the uni-body and build a tube chasis...yes that's it!!!

Ok, I'll stop now. :D


my car is not a purpose built track car, i drive my car to work and back. im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


Carlo

[drunk monkey]

So your car is a disco street machine and you like to talk about fabbing up custom oil pan because the stock one suck?

If you're going great length to remedy one "problem", why not convert the stock wet sump to a dry sump system? Most part to do the conversion can be bought through Jegs or Summit. Wait.....since you're at it. Ditch the shitty stock transmission and get an XTrac transmission, convert your fuel system to a methonal only, ditch that crappy front mount and get an air/water heat exhanger and hang some crazy GT-35BLT-RR-800HP.0091 turbo. Wait.....Let's talk about how we should ditch the uni-body and build a tube chasis...yes that's it!!!

Ok, I'll stop now. :D


my car is not a purpose built track car, i drive my car to work and back. im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


Carlo


you guys are weird. :lol:


and beside my car is not a disco machine its my car. thats it.


dohcvtec your missing my point. i want to know for a track car if that stock pan holds up. the pro track cars.

stockevo. you like bringing up counter points alot dont you. :P i never said the stock one sucks so quit assuming i said that. now if you saying to change all those things then why not change the oil pan.its a simple question. does the stock pan hold up in pro track car.

Earlyapex- thanks for pointing that out. try to find out if the stock pan was modified. at least the op will know all his facts about the oil pan.


does anyone know if an evo competes scca speed world challenge?

[smack]

i've heard of two motors letting go at the track from snorre at srm...
one from low fuel and one from low oil. none from a topped off motor.

like bryan said check your oil between sessions!
it takes all of about 15 secs. but can save you a ton of cash in the long run.

i know my car goes through about a half a quart a day depending on the amount of track time and traffic.

[StockEVO]

People pop their motor from fuel slooshing around on high lateral G's than oil slooshing to one side. I be more worried about the fuel than the oil.

And what's wrong with the stock oil pan again?

[drunk monkey]

People pop their motor from fuel slooshing around on high lateral G's than oil slooshing to one side. I be more worried about the fuel than the oil.

And what's wrong with the stock oil pan again?

like i said before nothing wrong with a stock pan. :P :P


but hahah how do they fair in a "pro" track car :D

[dohcvtec]

The next step up from an already baffled stock oil pan would be a dry sump system, which I would imagine your "pro track" cars are using anyways.

[lqdchkn]

hahaha, like I said,

It's almost like Mitsubishi built this car for a purpose...

Yes. But if we could now only figure out what that purpose is. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Cameron@xperformance]

The next step up from an already baffled stock oil pan would be a dry sump system, which I would imagine your "pro track" cars are using anyways.
i was just going to say that the next step would be the dry sump.

on most racecars there really isnt anything that is "stock" anymore. take kent jordans ITE car. what is still stock in that car?

[Navid@xperformance]

Is yours a purpose built track car? Kent Jordan, Navid and all the other guys with purpose built race cars are running the OEM pans with no problem.

I'll be interested to know why you think my car is a purpose built race car in it's current state. Last time I checked, vinyl did not make a race car. I haven't seen a purpose built race car with full interior, no roll cage, stock motor and stock turbo before.

Funny coincidence, last Saturday at TH I lost a rod bearing. Another funny coincidence, it happened right after turn 3 where the G forces pull the oil away from the pickup point. And no, I wasn't low on oil. I checked my oil right before the I went out.

Oh, I did get down to 1:59.7 with the cyclone before it happened. So yes, you have to push the limits a bit to run into this problem.

Needless to say the engine is out of the car, but it ain't going back in stock :twisted: . Let's just leave it at that. But you can bet it'll have an accusump when it's done. Then you can call it a purpose built race car if you want.

--Navid

[earlyapex]

I'll be interested to know why you think my car is a purpose built race car in it's current state. Last time I checked, vinyl did not make a race car. I haven't seen a purpose built race car with full interior, no roll cage, stock motor and stock turbo before.


You bought it to race it didn't you? 8)

You haven't seen a purpose built race car with full interior , stock motor and stock turbo? Isn't that what stock class race cars have? Plus a roll cage?

Either way, you car is fast so I lumped you in with kent jordans car. :)

btw, sorry about the motor. :(

[drunk monkey]

Is yours a purpose built track car? Kent Jordan, Navid and all the other guys with purpose built race cars are running the OEM pans with no problem.

I'll be interested to know why you think my car is a purpose built race car in it's current state. Last time I checked, vinyl did not make a race car. I haven't seen a purpose built race car with full interior, no roll cage, stock motor and stock turbo before.

Funny coincidence, last Saturday at TH I lost a rod bearing. Another funny coincidence, it happened right after turn 3 where the G forces pull the oil away from the pickup point. And no, I wasn't low on oil. I checked my oil right before the I went out.

Oh, I did get down to 1:59.7 with the cyclone before it happened. So yes, you have to push the limits a bit to run into this problem.

Needless to say the engine is out of the car, but it ain't going back in stock :twisted: . Let's just leave it at that. But you can bet it'll have an accusump when it's done. Then you can call it a purpose built race car if you want.

--Navid

thank you. some personal experience with oil and racing. so for any track if your pushing the limits ( i guess this is broad cuz some ppl limits are different than others ) its safe to say the stock oil pan wont hold.

[Navid@xperformance]

You haven't seen a purpose built race car with full interior , stock motor and stock turbo? Isn't that what stock class race cars have? Plus a roll cage?

I would hardly call a showroom stock class car a purpose built race car. Tube frame GT class cars or Daytona prototypes are pupose built race cars. I guess it depends on your perspective.

--Navid

[earlyapex]

I would hardly call a showroom stock class car a purpose built race car. Tube frame GT class cars or Daytona prototypes are pupose built race cars. I guess it depends on your perspective.

--Navid

Tube frame? Prototypes? What the hell? Show of hands of who drives a tube frame EVO on the track in this forum?

We are talking about EVO oil pans here right? Or did I walk into another discussion?

[earlyapex]

Oh, I did get down to 1:59.7 with the cyclone before it happened.

Great time Navid, you are seriously catching up to Kent's car that I posted photos of above, 2 more seconds! :D

[StockEVO]

2 more seconds is ALOT.

[smack]

it happened right after turn 3 where the G forces pull the oil away from the pickup point. And no, I wasn't low on oil. I checked my oil right before the I went out.

Oh, I did get down to 1:59.7 with the cyclone before it happened. So yes, you have to push the limits a bit to run into this problem.
--Navid

i heard about this from oliver. sux.
also suprised you were faster in your car than the works car. although theirs was down on power compared to normal.
great times in yours though!

i would think 3 is not the highest g loads(off camber really) on the car or longest duration so it's suprising it was there. do you think it actually was oil starved in 2?
do you have data acquisition in your car? do you know how the loads compare?

[smack]

2 more seconds is ALOT.

not with more power it's not. obviously the handling is already there.
i bet navid's car was at least 100-150whp down on kents.

[dohcvtec]

it happened right after turn 3 where the G forces pull the oil away from the pickup point. And no, I wasn't low on oil. I checked my oil right before the I went out.

Oh, I did get down to 1:59.7 with the cyclone before it happened. So yes, you have to push the limits a bit to run into this problem.
--Navid

i heard about this from oliver. sux.
also suprised you were faster in your car than the works car. although theirs was down on power compared to normal.
great times in yours though!

i would think 3 is not the highest g loads(off camber really) on the car or longest duration so it's suprising it was there. do you think it actually was oil starved in 2?
do you have data acquisition in your car? do you know how the loads compare?
I'm guessing it whas the transition from turn 3 to 4?

[smack]

yeah, or unless right hand g loads or more of a problem than lefts

[earlyapex]

yeah, or unless right hand g loads or more of a problem than lefts

Right turns are pulling the oil away from the sump right?

[dohcvtec]

yeah, or unless right hand g loads or more of a problem than lefts

Right turns are pulling the oil away from the sump right?
Correct.

[Navid@xperformance]

Tube frame? Prototypes? What the hell? Show of hands of who drives a tube frame EVO on the track in this forum?

We are talking about EVO oil pans here right? Or did I walk into another discussion?You said purpose *built*. That implies building something from scratch. Purpose built means the same thing regardless of what forum you are on. Or are you making up your own terminology for this forum. If so, maybe you can publish your own dictionary. Here, let me start it for you:

Purpose built = anything faster than me

--Navid

[Navid@xperformance]

2 more seconds is ALOT.Honestly, the car had another 2 seconds in it. I'm still on mismatched shocks and leftover tires from last year's Nationals. I had to rotate the tires because the front ones were pretty much dead.

--Navid

[earlyapex]

You said purpose *built*. That implies building something from scratch. Purpose built means the same thing regardless of what forum you are on. Or are you making up your own terminology for this forum. If so, maybe you can publish your own dictionary. Here, let me start it for you:

Purpose built = anything faster than me

--Navid
I didn't bring up purpose built.. I asked what he meant by purpose built.

What I am saying, is what is the purpose of asking what tube-framed EVOs and Prototype EVOs use for oilpans (do these evos even exist?) When I can pretty much say for certain nobody on this forum will ever have one.

What people should be asking is what are the fast guys running for oil pans.

How about this...

since you just grenaded your motor because of an oil pan issue, what are you going to be using for an oil pan when you rebuild the motor?

I think that would help everyone here more than fantasizing about what flying purple pony tube frame chocolate bunny evo race cars use for oil pans.

[Navid@xperformance]

i heard about this from oliver. sux.
also suprised you were faster in your car than the works car. although theirs was down on power compared to normal.
great times in yours though!

i would think 3 is not the highest g loads(off camber really) on the car or longest duration so it's suprising it was there. do you think it actually was oil starved in 2?
do you have data acquisition in your car? do you know how the loads compare?The WORKS car was detuned for testing and it was on narrower tires. Don't read too much into that. That car can be very fast!

3 is not the highest g load turn at TH, but it is a right-hander. I'm sure the rod bearing was not damaged just in that turn and not at that particular lap. I think that was a long-term damage.

--Navid

[earlyapex]

I'm sure the rod bearing was not damaged just in that turn and not at that particular lap. I think that was a long-term damage.


Ok, so you don't know if your rod bearing went from oil starvation?

Maybe from detonation pounding the hell out of your bearings from those nice and toasty 12.1+ AFR's you where running? :shock:

[Navid@xperformance]

Bryan, nobody even talked about what purpose built cars run for the oil pan. Running an accusump solves my oil starvation problem and that's what I said I will run. If you would have bothered to read before jumping on the keyboard.

--Navid

[Navid@xperformance]

Ok, so you don't know if your rod bearing went from oil starvation?

Maybe from detonation pounding the hell out of your bearings from those nice and toasty 12.1+ AFR's you where running? :shock:Nope, the pistons and the spark plugs don't look like they've been running lean. But if it makes you feel better...

--Navid

[earlyapex]

Bryan, nobody even talked about what purpose built cars run for the oil pan. If you would have bothered to read before jumping on the keyboard.


Pot meet kettle:


how about for a purpose built track car. will that stock pan hold up?


im talking about real track cars (not saying kent or navid arent real track cars since i dont know them.) where its impossible to drive it on the street and most parts on the car is fabricated.


i want to know for a track car if that stock pan holds up. the pro track cars.

Sounds like you need to read the whole thread before jumping on the keyboard. :D :oops: :shock: :D

I'm not trying to argue with you, just get to the meat of what actually happened to blow your motor, was it in fact oil problems or a tune problem or what?

[drunk monkey]

it seems topics like these have way to much personal opinion in them. ie which is better brakes? dont brother changing brakes you have brembos.
its like we are swaying people to be a certain type of tuner.


in the end its still that persons car. i think we should just answer the questions to the best of knowledge and leave it at that, and try not to instill other comments of saying why change it ect ect ect.


navid--

the reason i brought up purpose built cars is to try to point out if they are still using the stock oil pans. if they are currently baffled enough to witstand g forces to stop oil stravation, since a purpose built track car is considerably faster than a stock car. and some have pointed out saying "whats wrong with the stock oil pan?"


ehh im done talking. next topic. btw good discussion haha

Carlo

[Navid@xperformance]

I'm not trying to argue with you, just get to the meat of what actually happened to blow your motor, was it in fact oil problems or a tune problem or what?Dude, seems like argue is all you do on this forum. You haven't seen the engine, you haven't heard the engine, but somehow you know everything about it from behind your keyboard! :shock:

--Navid

[earlyapex]

Dude, seems like argue is all you do on this forum. You haven't seen the engine, you haven't heard the engine, but somehow you know everything about it from behind your keyboard! :shock:

--Navid

Navid,

What has crawled up your ass? I don't know anything about it, that is why I am asking. Everything I have said about your motor has been a question.

[dohcvtec]

I'm not trying to argue with you, just get to the meat of what actually happened to blow your motor, was it in fact oil problems or a tune problem or what?Dude, seems like argue is all you do on this forum. You haven't seen the engine, you haven't heard the engine, but somehow you know everything about it from behind your keyboard! :shock:

--Navid
Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I don't see how Bryan is arguing with you, simply asking questions that I too am interested in knowing. Go outside, take a deep breath of some cool air and chill out man.

[StockEVO]

$50 bucks I say the engine went KABOOM was from a lean air/fuel mixture. Post some pictures of your rod bearings, piston top, and spark plugs. This I like to see.

[Navid@xperformance]

Maybe from detonation pounding the hell out of your bearings from those nice and toasty 12.1+ AFR's you where running? :shock:So, does this seem like a question to you? Or is it a statement based on something you heard second hand. Because I don't recall you being there when I dynoed my car. Just because you slap a "?" at the end of your statements, it does not make them questions.

You know this is exactly why I don't post here much. I get involved in these pointless exchanges that kill my day. I have an engine to rebuild. Please continue without me. :chatter:
--Navid

[dohcvtec]

LOL, what a work of art.

[earlyapex]

Maybe from detonation pounding the hell out of your bearings from those nice and toasty 12.1+ AFR's you where running? :shock:So, does this seem like a question to you? Or is it a statement based on something you heard second hand. Because I don't recall you being there when I dynoed my car. Just because you slap a "?" at the end of your statements, it does not make them questions.

You know this is exactly why I don't post here much. I get involved in these pointless exchanges that kill my day. I have an engine to rebuild. Please continue without me. :chatter:
--Navid

Man, you are getting really defensive. I made that AFR up, I have no idea what AFR you are running, I mearly stated that AFR because that would be an AFR that could cause detonation enough to mess up your bearings. Being where when you dynoed your car? Didn't you dyno at Vishnu? I haven't been to Vishnu in almost 2 years.

Why are you so defensive? I am mearly asking a question that would be good information for everyone in this thread.

Here is the question again:

Do you know if your motor blew from oil problems, or something else?

After all, this is an oil pan thread... If your motor blew because of something else, then your post about it is irrelevant and not a data point.

You getting huffy about me asking this, leaving, and not giving us more info isn't contributing to this thread. What's the deal?

[nebolic]

hello, can we please keep this topic on track. We are here to discuss on ideas of oil pans and not questioning people's tune etc... if you want to discuss that, please start another topic, this adds no value to the OP questions.

thanks,
Nebo
NorCalEvo Admin

[dohcvtec]

hello, can we please keep this topic on track. We are here to discuss on ideas of oil pans and not questioning people's tune etc... if you want to discuss that, please start another topic, this adds no value to the OP questions.

thanks,
Nebo
NorCalEvo Admin
So far Navid is the only one who has had a motor blow that might have been from oil starvation. We are trying to find out if that was indeed the case or not. It would be best to have all information so everyone could decide for themselves whether it was a tune or infact an oil starvation problem. I think it does have something to do with the topic.

[earlyapex]

hello, can we please keep this topic on track. We are here to discuss on ideas of oil pans and not questioning people's tune etc... if you want to discuss that, please start another topic, this adds no value to the OP questions.

thanks,
Nebo
NorCalEvo Admin

I am not questioning people's tunes at all! I am asking if his engine blew because of oil problems or something else, maybe the tune, maybe something else.

THAT is relevant because Navid came on here saying he blew his motor on track. Before that, nobody brought forward data points about a evo blowing a motor on track because of oiling problems.

So is Navids car still a data point in this thread or not?

Why do I want to know? Because I track my car too, if this is indeed a problem that is cropping up, I want to do something about it too. Maybe Navid can talk a little more about what he is going to do about it, he mentioned an accusump... ok, maybe he can tell us a little more about that for people that might be interested in doing the same thing.

[nebolic]

Earlyapex and DohcVTEC,

I understand what both of you are trying to get at and I'm okay with that. But if you re-read the thread, there seems to be a lot of animosity going on. I don't understand how a simple question of oil pans can get turned into the exchange that has been going on in this thread. It seems the latter part of the thread were more argumentive than discussion.

nebo
NorCalEvo Admin

[smack]

i have to admit that afr comment sounded more like a statement(like he saw a chart or heard something) than a question.
and we definitely know that bryan can unintentionally come across, shall we say, a touch agressive at times :lol:

i'm sure no harm intended navid.

[earlyapex]

i have to admit that afr comment sounded more like a statement(like he saw a chart or heard something) than a question.


I reread it and I have to agree. I apologize that it came across that way, I pulled that number out of my ass because it signified a bad AFR for the track.

Maybe I guessed right about something and it struck a chord? If I did, that was not my intention.


It seems the latter part of the thread were more argumentive than discussion.


Nebo, I agree and that is why I am trying to get some information. (yes I know I was part of those arguements)

[smack]

that's it. bryan has to buy the first round at the bar the night before our next trackday! 8)

[dohcvtec]

that's it. bryan has to buy the first round at the bar the night before our next trackday! 8)
:werd:
:lol:

[earlyapex]

that's it. bryan has to buy the first round at the bar the night before our next trackday! 8)

have you been to the bar in willows? :shock:

I'll buy the first round if you protect me from the regulars. Hahaha

[smack]

CASA baby!!!!

[Navid@xperformance]

OK, the engine is out, the head is off and I have some pictures to share. I can't figure out how to post pictures here so here are some links:

Here's a view from the bottom. As you can see the rod bearing on the left of the picture is discolored.

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\all-bearings.jpg

Here are more pictures of the damaged bearing:

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\bearing.jpg
http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\bearing2.jpg
http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\bearing3.jpg

Damaged rod:

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\rod.jpg

The piston connected to that rod:

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\piston.jpg

Here's a picture of the head:

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\whole-head.jpg

And a close-up of the valves on the damaged cylinder:

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\head.jpg

If the damage was cause by detonation, the piston and the head would take the blunt of it and would show signs. Mine are cherry! For a reference, here's a picture of a detonation damaged head (courtesy of Bugformance):

http:\www.xperformance.com\Engine\damaged.jpg


Based on the visual evidence and years of experience racing and working on race engines between us and bugformance guys (including the last 7 years of 12hr/25hr race at TH), we agree the damage is not caused by detonation. But I'm sure there are way more qualified people on this list who are eager to offer their own opinions.

All I want to know is when do I collect my 50 bux? :lol:

[dohcvtec]

I agree, it does not appear to be detonation. The combustion chambers and the piston appear to have normal wear. That rod however, eek! Definately from oil starvation. I don't think anyone was doubting you Navid, just wanted to be sure it was an oiling problem. I think your pictures are evidence to that. Good luck on the rebuild!

[lqdchkn]

****REPOSTED FOR PICS****

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, the engine is out, the head is off and I have some pictures to share. I can't figure out how to post pictures here so here are some links:

Here's a view from the bottom. As you can see the rod bearing on the left of the picture is discolored.

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/all-bearings.jpg

Here are more pictures of the damaged bearing:

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/bearing.jpg

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/bearing2.jpg

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/bearing3.jpg

Damaged rod:

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/rod.jpg

The piston connected to that rod:

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/piston.jpg

Here's a picture of the head:

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/whole-head.jpg

And a close-up of the valves on the damaged cylinder:

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/head.jpg

If the damage was cause by detonation, the piston and the head would take the blunt of it and would show signs. Mine are cherry! For a reference, here's a picture of a detonation damaged head (courtesy of Bugformance):

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/damaged.jpg


Based on the visual evidence and years of experience racing and working on race engines between us and bugformance guys (including the last 7 years of 12hr/25hr race at TH), we agree the damage is not caused by detonation. But I'm sure there are way more qualified people on this list who are eager to offer their own opinions.

All I want to know is when do I collect my 50 bux?
_________________
#80 Evo RS


Edit: Gotta remember to put your slashes in the correct direction.

-Jan

[earlyapex]

Once again, I wasn't doubting you, I was asking for clarification.

That heat discoloration on the rod and the wear on those bearings obviously show lack of lubrication and the heat from it.

Thank you for posting this photos Navid, It's good information.

So, watcha gonna build? :wink:

Also, if you don't mind, and have the time, if you are going to go the accusump route, could you document the install of it?

Or better yet, maybe you could be the first company to offer a complete EVO-centric kit for fellow track whores? :D

[earlyapex]

Based on the visual evidence and years of experience racing and working on race engines between us and bugformance guys (including the last 7 years of 12hr/25hr race at TH)

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/starlingNB180_tcm3-62202.jpg

[drunk monkey]

here is a link for the accusump system.


http://www.accusump.com/acc_products/acc_units.html



what kit are you gonna run navid?

Carlo

[earlyapex]

here is a link for the accusump system.

http://www.accusump.com/acc_products/acc_units.html

what kit are you gonna run navid?

Carlo

yup, I know about it, but it would be nice to see a kit without having to use a sandwich adapter, etc. Actual mounting brackets for the evo, etc etc

[earlyapex]

Hey Navid,

Is it just the photo or does that upper left part of the piston look like garbarge around the edges?

You 100% positive you didn't run lean and fuel slosh = pounded bearing and blocked the oil holes? Could be a combo punch here... #1 always runs the leanest.

Of course, if that piston top is clean and thats just the crappy photo, nevermind.

Do you have any photos of the main cap and bearings? What do your cam caps / B-shaft and oil-pump look like? I would be really interested to see what the balance shafts look like. They shouldn't look very happy if there was lack of oil.

And just for the record, I am NOT arguing with you I am mainly trying to get to the bottom of this and make sure we 100% know what caused this.

http://www.xperformance.com/Engine/piston.jpg

[StockEVO]

There's more to it then posting pictures of your rods and pistons. Someone here is not telling us the truth. (Maybe you can't handle the truth!) :D

[vtluu]

Someone here is not telling us the truth.
:?: Being wrong/having an opinion that turns out to be incorrect is not the same as not telling the truth. What makes you suspect the latter?

[drunk monkey]

can we leave the little comments out? i mean thats why i see threads turn into shitless post. he already asked about the picture. wait till he responds.


Carlo

[Navid@xperformance]

lqdchkn, thanks for posting the pictures. Someone explain to me how to do that and I'll post more pictures.

Bryan and StockEVO, you got me! :bow: I blew up my engine and doctored some pictures to show it wasn't because I was running it too lean. I should have done a better job on the pictures.

Now if you excuse me, I have a real job to go back to.

--Navid
p.s. the parts are here at the shop for anybody's inspection. Drop by any time.

[StockEVO]

:shrug:

I want to see what does the oil pump and balance shaft look like. Because they are usually the first to go if it was lack of oil. And even then, I see straight liner aka drag fags killed oil pump(s) and grenaded a motor. Saying it was lack of oil but really it was the "OJ Simpson busta move on the rod bearings", and thereof.

A close up shot of the rod bearing can and will tell more. A rod bearing that died from lack of oil will look differently from the one that died from detonation.

If the engine went lean from a hard corner, due to fuel sloosing to one side. It doesn't take much pound the living daylight out of the rod bearing. Also number 1 tend and will always run leaner than that of 2,3, and 4. If it detonate "hard enough" you can possibly spun the rod bearing. A spun rod bearing will look and behave like one that's been kill from lack of oil.

It just look fishy from the piston photo and the heat marks on number 1 rods. Where is number 2,3,and 4. What does the main cap and thrust bearing look like?

It's way too early to specualte on what really happened from the posted pictures. But my guess is that it's not from lack of oil. If so, then I owe Navid and some of you members an apology.




Someone here is not telling us the truth.
:?: Being wrong/having an opinion that turns out to be incorrect is not the same as not telling the truth. What makes you suspect the latter?

[earlyapex]

Bryan, you got me! :bow: I blew up my engine and doctored some pictures to show it wasn't because I was running it too lean. I should have done a better job on the pictures.

Now if you excuse me, I have a real job to go back to.


Alright. Whatever. All I am doing is asking for more info, I am not saying something happened, I am asking. I did not say your hiding anything, again, I was ASKING

Isn't this forum about more information? If you want to be a sensitive prick about it and not share more information then go ahead. You didn't even answer my question about if that was just a crappy photo or actually on the piston, you just freaked out and shut down. Is this how you are in your business too?

We all got real jobs pal.

[dohcvtec]

Of course, if that piston top is clean and thats just the crappy photo, nevermind.
I guess reading comprehension is difficult for some people?

[vtluu]

It's way too early to specualte on what really happened from the posted pictures. But my guess is that it's not from lack of oil. If so, then I owe Navid and some of you members an apology.
Maybe you meant to say you believe someone is mistaken, but that's not how it came across. I don't think there was any need to imply that anyone here was being deceptive or dishonest.

[StockEVO]

Dishonest? Hardly. Deceptive, no comment.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/deadstuff/sukar-deadcrank.jpg

Look at the rod journal. It's darker than dark. But look where the main caps are. No discoloration at all. Sorry it's not a clear picture. That motor belongs to Joe Sukkar. I believe he use to reside in the Bay-Area. He snapped a Crower rod, bent the other and busted 3 JE pistons. Would you say that's from lack of oil?

On any motor, the engine bearing is the achilles heel.



Maybe you meant to say you believe someone is mistaken, but that's not how it came across. I don't think there was any need to imply that anyone here was being deceptive or dishonest.