snow and your Evo sticky?

[tahoeacr]

There seems to always be alot of ? on this. Should we make this a sticky?
I would suggest having info like this on it.

Difference between rim size/widths vs. performance.

How different tires actually perform. We all know the tirerack test this. In an ice rink. What about real world vs. driver ability? What tire for those who don't have experience in the snow that don't want to or can't afford extra rims with Blizzaks. I got around the first winter with my Evo on my Advans. Although I'm probably a better snow driver than most being that I live in Tahoe. :roll: M & S rated that will still work good in the summer.

Cables on the Advans? I'll volunteer my car for this if someone supplies the advans and cables. My fenders are already gettin trashed.

Suspension set-up. What about coil-overs with 12k springs? So stiff your car would probably slide on any ice.

I know there's alot of guys that come up here. What about some testing? I can find plenty of places that are safe to try different things without sliding of into a ditch. I have a heated garage, endless hot water to melt the snow before we work on stuff and any tools nec. Plus a F-350 4x to pull anyone out with.

I bought my Evo for driving in the winter. I'm getting a little carried away on making it work it's best in the snow. 16x5 rims with ws-50's. Got coil-overs on the way to raise the ride up to clear 26.1 tires. Going to try different spring rates without the sway-bars for more roll. Might even corner weigh and try different alignments. Corner weighing is probably a mute point since so much snow packs under your car.

[earlyapex]

There seems to always be alot of ? on this. Should we make this a sticky?

I bought my Evo for driving in the winter. I'm getting a little carried away on making it work it's best in the snow. 16x5 rims with ws-50's. Got coil-overs on the way to raise the ride up to clear 26.1 tires. Going to try different spring rates without the sway-bars for more roll. Might even corner weigh and try different alignments. Corner weighing is probably a mute point since so much snow packs under your car.

I agree this should be made a sticky.

16x5 rims? They won't fit over your brembos.

[tahoeacr]

Sure they do. All ready had them on the car for a couple of weeks till it got dry out. Took me two years to find someone who could make them/test fit. We are talking full boost thru first three gears total control.

[earlyapex]

Sure they do. All ready had them on the car for a couple of weeks till it got dry out. Took me two years to find someone who could make them/test fit. We are talking full boost thru first three gears total control.

what 16x5 wheels do you have that fit over the brembos? Have photos?

[evo_dadi]

Sure they do. All ready had them on the car for a couple of weeks till it got dry out. Took me two years to find someone who could make them/test fit. We are talking full boost thru first three gears total control.

what 16x5 wheels do you have that fit over the brembos? Have photos?

+1

thats what im kinda wondering also :shock:

[nebolic]

stickied.

nebo

[evo_dadi]

suspension and handling dept ;) :lol:

[nebolic]

moved also :D

nebo

[evo_dadi]

moved also :D

nebo

:bow: :thumbsup:

[tahoeacr]

I can e-mail someone pics if you can post them. www.imagewheels.co.uk. Bought them thru Anglo American Road Racing in Phoenix. I went to the SEMA and PRI shows with engineer diagrams of all important clearances of caliper/disc/shock/springs and passed them out to every wheel manufacture. Three could build them. Youngblood was $650 a rim but I've used there rims on an Indy light car and had nothing but blow-outs caused by pressure failure from rim flex. These rims were $1,850+- to the door. First try didn't clear without a 5.5mm spacer on the hub. I got out my trusty $19 Harbor Freight 4" grinder and went to town on em to make them clear. Sent them back for a re-fit. Know they fit but stick out a little to far for my liking. I need to put mud flaps on the car.

At the time I started this, know one was making a smaller brake kit. I talked to Wilwood and they didn't have the time. I saw the AMS car (I think) and didn't like the fit of eclipse brakes. Plus, I didn't feel like having to change calipers twice a year and bleed the brakes.

[dohcvtec]

Why not just continue to run a 17" wheel? Sounds like too much hassle to rig 16" in there.

[earlyapex]

Yea that seems like alot of work, why not just raise the car to fit the larger tires on 17's?

AMS just announced their willwood kit to fit as small as 15" wheels.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=184456

Either way, since this is now a sticky about all-weather tires for evos, perhaps we should move this wheel discussion to another thread.

Email me photos and I can post them.

[tahoeacr]

Low profile tires don't work as good in the snow. You need sidewall flex and soft suspension. Plus, I couldn't find any narrow 17's. I wanted a six inch width max. One drive in the car and you will see what I mean.

Definitely a pain. I wanted a car my wife could drive to work in no matter the weather. Any AWD or 4x with snows can get around. It's being able to swerve when the knucklehead doing 360's is headed straight for you.

[tahoeacr]

Raising the car seems to be a much bigger pain. Know one makes a shock that the ride height can be raised above stock. Unless you want to go with 4-5k real rally stuff. All c/o that I've check into are shorter than stock lenght.

I'd like to keep both wheel/tire and suspension stuff related to snow driving on this post.

[earlyapex]

Ok, here are his 16" wheels on his evo. :shock:

how close are those front calipers to the wheel? spoke and inside clearance?

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00405.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00432.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00436.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00438.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00440.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00441.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00459.JPG

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/evo_16s/DSC00460.JPG

[evo_dadi]

wow talk about snug fit :shock:

[tahoeacr]

That was the first fitment. Couldn't find my current front wheel pic. They have probably 4 or 5mm clearance now. I would have rather had 2mm and kept the rim in closer. Fixed caliper anyways. Not likely to get alot of sideload in the snow.

[earlyapex]

So where are the mud flaps and spiked tires to complete the snow stage look? 8)

[turbotiger]

Why don't you bolt on the normal lancer brakes and wheels?

[earlyapex]

Why don't you bolt on the normal lancer brakes and wheels?

All different hubs and mounting points.

[panem]

wow talk about snug fit :shock:
that is snug. :poke:

[Stelios]

There are also front calipers from the Evo VIII RS
the ones that used at the gravel rally Group N cars.

Gravel tires are 15inch , the suspension is about 10K Euros


RS model has at stock fit 15inch

[tahoeacr]

Well, the season looks to be over. So far I've tried coil-overs with different spring rates, played with the ride height and rake, and disconnecting the rear sway-bar. Any changes made too much oversteer.
Best set-up so far is still 16x5 rims w/ws-50 tires. Stock suspension with a rear diffuser. Diffuser keeps the snow from packing in under the bumper and sacking out the rear.

[osunick]

Didn't someone ask about tires that worked well in the snow and also year round? When I was in detroit I had the Continental ExtremeContacts. The snow performance was amazing for a high performance tire and they weren't bad in the summer either. Those would be my recommendation...

[heeltoer]

Ok for those that don't live in Tahoe and only need part time winter performance tires the Pirelli Nero M+S (225/45 on stockers) is a pretty good choice.

Been up there in all manner of snow/ice conditions and the performance is pretty good for a non studded tire. Comparable tires include blizzaks. Another plus is that they make very little noise during regular highway cruising and just makes the care that more civilized. After debating swithing over to a summer tire and/or getting another set of tires for summer tires, Ive deceided to keep the pirellis during the summer. These tires are perfectly servicable for regular driving and the occasional canyon run. I do have another set of wheels for the track but dedicated summer non-R tires aren't really necessary unless doing autoX.

Ive spoken with 2 other evo owners who have reported similar experiences. Highly recommend if you plan to take tahoe trips this coming season.

hope this helps,
-heeltoer

[mtsevovii]

those tires have some pretty bad ratings for snow/ice on tirerack.

[heeltoer]

those tires have some pretty bad ratings for snow/ice on tirerack.

You are right, its a comparison between strangers on a tire seller forum or strangers on an evo owners forum.

Lets insert some expert opinion:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/kumho_ecsta_asx.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/co_contiExtremeContact.jsp

in both reviews the Pirelli came out on top with the best average score.

Notice the competition its running against, its not designed to compete directly against a dedicated snow tire. On the other hand ive used blizzaks before and for someone that has run those noisy one season lasting tires (< 10K miles), the pirellis are a very good compromise between ultimate winter performance and noise/summer performance/value.

[tahoeacr]

Heeltoer is making very good points. You have to pay attention to just what Evo owners think. Blizzak ws-50's on my F-150 supercrew worked great with very little noise and no noticeable side wall flex. On my evo their noisy and have very annoying sidewall flex when it's dry. So bad that I either change rims or drive something else.

[KareBearPowa]

DOHCVTEC uses those tires on his evo in the winter too and seems to like them. They don't look like they would work well by looking at them but he says the work great.

The contiextremes are good all around tires as well. I used them when I had my WRX.

[AreSTG]

i mentioned this once before but since this is a sticky i'll say it again in less words.

If you are running the advans or something to the same effect and you are gunna be driving in serius snow, then cables will make the car drive reallllly well. I drove in tahoe this last winter on cables (all 4 wheels) and i had NO problem driving thru snow that was as high as the top of my intercooler. Granted that's powder, not sloppy wet heavy snow like in teh east coast, but its still deep.

Stopping is never easy in snow/ice but its not bad. But cables will make slicks dig in ya know?

worth noting however is, make sure you hook them on tight and well. Tight cuz it'll be easier to go faster, and well cuz, if the parts that connect are flinging around(due to centrifical force) then your wheel well and maybe the outside of teh car may take a helluva beating. Two of my wheel wells took a beating cuz i was lazy putting them on in the slush.

Also worth noteing, if you have cables on and the sun melts the snow of the roads, ur r totally screwed in a normal ride and keeping up with traffic. But in horrible weather the chains can't be beat. I-80 was closed when i went up and i was having no trouble going uphill in donner pass.

[UCB]

I ran the pzero nero on my STi without any problems at all. Went up 10times or so, 3-4 times when it was chains only

Ill be getting a set of those or the falken 512s which are also great all seaosns that perform well in the dry (well, as good as you can get for a AS tire)

[tahoeacr]

Waiting for the next storm to test the Whiteline roll center adj kit/rear bump steer. With the stock suspension this year I had to roll my fenders.

[EVO MILK]

5-6 more months....

[UCB]

+1, then more of this

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/ucbsti/snow3-1.jpg

[dohcvtec]

:)
god i miss the snow, we didn't have enough of it this year.. my evo is depressed. :(

[tahoeacr]

Had a couple inches of snow a few times already. It's coming!! Have a set of 205/50-16 ws-50's to replace my 205-60's. A little lower than stock with the whiteline rc kit now on her otta make a diff. Can't wait to try it.

[EVO MILK]

It's almost here...! Sierra at tahoe opens Mid November...i just renewed my season pass

anyone have the yakima rack?.... did the part that hooks on to your door jam scratch the s**T out of your car?... any kinda of padding you guys use? they supply you with this thin ass sticker that doesn't do crap.

[mtsevovii]

It's almost here...! Sierra at tahoe opens Mid November...i just renewed my season pass

anyone have the yakima rack?.... did the part that hooks on to your door jam scratch the s**T out of your car?... any kinda of padding you guys use?Â* they supply you with this thin ass sticker that doesn't do crap.



http://lamin-x.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=449&products_id=1093&osCsid=6e8467d81b37b5a30d96b6e32290ede5

??

[EVO MILK]

Thanks MTS, i might give that a try...looks like the same film i have on my iphone

[UCB]

I do not fear teh sn0w
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/ucbsti/snow3.jpg

[nightwalker]

Da Evo ish moshtest fun in da shnow

[hi_nrg_fizzix]

Almost time to slap on the Blizzaks! Let's hope for some pre-Thanksgiving storms.

[nightwalker]

Actually, it's snowing right now as we speak. But it's been flurries off and on all day. It might stick tonight 'cause it's freakin' cold right now.

Don't worry, by Halloween, we're going to be blanketed the way things are going this winter.

[EVO MILK]

^ :D

[dohcvtec]

It's almost here...! Sierra at tahoe opens Mid November...i just renewed my season pass

anyone have the yakima rack?.... did the part that hooks on to your door jam scratch the s**T out of your car?... any kinda of padding you guys use? they supply you with this thin ass sticker that doesn't do crap.



http://lamin-x.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=449&products_id=1093&osCsid=6e8467d81b37b5a30d96b6e32290ede5

??

Wish I would have known about those. Somehow the rubber feet still manage to leave marks on the roof of my car. Oh well, just shows she gets used. :)

[willitas34]

It's almost here...! Sierra at tahoe opens Mid November...i just renewed my season pass

anyone have the yakima rack?.... did the part that hooks on to your door jam scratch the s**T out of your car?... any kinda of padding you guys use? they supply you with this thin ass sticker that doesn't do crap.



http://lamin-x.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=449&products_id=1093&osCsid=6e8467d81b37b5a30d96b6e32290ede5

??

Wish I would have known about those. Somehow the rubber feet still manage to leave marks on the roof of my car. Oh well, just shows she gets used. :)


Gives your evo character :)

[EVO MILK]

almost that time again!!!.... going to be my 2nd season with Kumho ASX. They worked really good last season even with the dismal snow we had.

Going to be visiting Mammoth, CA this season!!! Anyone been there? how are the roads going there? I'm really excited about this trip 4 days 3 nights of non stop boarding!

[earlyapex aka jack ass]

almost that time again!!!....


I wish, still a good 5 months off..

[hi_nrg_fizzix]

almost that time again!!!.... going to be my 2nd season with Kumho ASX. They worked really good last season even with the dismal snow we had.

Going to be visiting Mammoth, CA this season!!! Anyone been there? how are the roads going there? I'm really excited about this trip 4 days 3 nights of non stop boarding!


Mammoth is great. Lots of open high alpine style skiing. Not a lot of trees up high, but lots of rocks, cliffs and chutes.

[nightwalker]

If Blizzak LM25s were a standard and on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best, the Blizzaks would rate 9. The Hankook i-pike w409 would be a 10.

Michelin X ice 7 or 8

ASX would be 4

Ziex 512 would be 3

P6 four seasons would be 5

Ziex 912 would be 2

All summer tires 1

If I do go back up to Tahoe this year, it's going to be 225/45/17 Hankook i-pike

[EVO MILK]

its finally snowing....=)

[EV0LL]

So I'm up here in Tahoe (posting via dial up) with the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S 225/45/17 on the stockers, and have to say traction is less than optimal. I'm getting ABS to activate w/out trying, and by that I mean from 25-30mph very easy on the brakes, ABS activates right as I press the pedal. My brake pads may be contributing to this, I have the Project Mu B spec pads that RRE sells for the street, I'm wondering if initial bite is too aggressive, but even just driving down the road the car moves all over the place. So far I'm less than impressed with these tires in the snow, who ever thinks these are fine must drive like an absolute grandma....

Anyhow, I tried lowering the air pressures. They went up from 31 cold to 36 cold up here, not sure if its due to altitude or weather or a combination of both. I lowered them back down to 31 cold, and that seemed to help some. Surfing around I read some suggestions to dropping the sir pressures to 20psi or so.

My question is, has anyone tired dropping tire pressures to help with grip? Think its a valid idea? I'd probably not goto 20 but I'm thinking like 25 cold to see if that helps.

Any input/suggestions welcomed, thanks!

-Jason

[earlyapex aka jack ass]

So I'm up here in Tahoe (posting via dial up) with the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S 225/45/17 on the stockers, and have to say traction is less than optimal. I'm getting ABS to activate w/out trying, and by that I mean from 25-30mph very easy on the brakes, ABS activates right as I press the pedal. My brake pads may be contributing to this, I have the Project Mu B spec pads that RRE sells for the street, I'm wondering if initial bite is too aggressive, but even just driving down the road the car moves all over the place. So far I'm less than impressed with these tires in the snow, who ever thinks these are fine must drive like an absolute grandma....

Sounds like the tires as I run my track pads (PMU Max 900) with -3 camber in the front and have to really get on the brakes to engage ABS in the snow.

[tahoeacr]

So I'm up here in Tahoe (posting via dial up) with the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S 225/45/17 on the stockers, and have to say traction is less than optimal. I'm getting ABS to activate w/out trying, and by that I mean from 25-30mph very easy on the brakes, ABS activates right as I press the pedal. My brake pads may be contributing to this, I have the Project Mu B spec pads that RRE sells for the street, I'm wondering if initial bite is too aggressive, but even just driving down the road the car moves all over the place. So far I'm less than impressed with these tires in the snow, who ever thinks these are fine must drive like an absolute grandma....

Anyhow, I tried lowering the air pressures. They went up from 31 cold to 36 cold up here, not sure if its due to altitude or weather or a combination of both. I lowered them back down to 31 cold, and that seemed to help some. Surfing around I read some suggestions to dropping the sir pressures to 20psi or so.

My question is, has anyone tired dropping tire pressures to help with grip? Think its a valid idea? I'd probably not goto 20 but I'm thinking like 25 cold to see if that helps.

Any input/suggestions welcomed, thanks!

-Jason

Dropping tire pressure works. Just don't forget to add pressure before you start flying down on the dry. The air in your tire was from sea level. As you are now at 7,000 ft there is less pressure on the outside of the tire allowing the tire to expand more to equal the pressure up here.
I saw a grey MR up by Boulder last night when I was out. Was that you? Anyways, back on subject. It's real slick out right now with the cold temps. I'm having troubles with my abs also. I took out the fuse last night. It was better, but you have to pay attention. I'm also having brake problems. Seems after blasting around the Heavenly parking lots(closed course, of course) in deep snow my brakes quit working. Could stop twice as quick by just the e-brake. I think the pistons in the calipers are freezing! If I drag the brakes for awhile to get some heat in them it gets better. This was before I pulled the fuse.
When your braking, keep it in gear and downshift. I'll pm you my # if you want to see how tires are suppose to work:grin:.

[tahoeacr]

EVOLL,
after checking out the tread design of your tires on tirerack, that is definately part/most of your issue. A M&S designation is really a joke. It is just a rain tire. For a manufacture to get a M&S designation they only have to have something like 20% more grooves. There is no standard like they have to get better traction. A snowflake(winter) tire does have to get 110% better traction than a standardized tire. I have tried 225's on my stock rims and they were barely even better than the stock Advans.

[Sales@m4]

EVOLL,
after checking out the tread design of your tires on tirerack, that is definately part/most of your issue. A M&S designation is really a joke. It is just a rain tire. For a manufacture to get a M&S designation they only have to have something like 20% more grooves. There is no standard like they have to get better traction. A snowflake(winter) tire does have to get 110% better traction than a standardized tire. I have tried 225's on my stock rims and they were barely even better than the stock Advans.

What snow tire do you recommend?

[EV0LL]

Jeff,

Thanks for the input, I left Tahoe Friday night after a great day of skiing on fresh powder at Homewood. I ended up dropping the pressures 6psi all the way around and that seemed to help some. I agree, I think these tires are the kind of "barely qualifies" as M+S tires. I guess I should have known something was up after being somewhat impressed by their dry handling after a brief canyon run, lol.

On packed down snow and plowed roads with some snow,ice, sand on em, they did ok tho, I'm back alive with the car in one piece so that should say something. :) As an all season tire they work pretty good. I think for regular winter use, nothing much is gained by the smaller size tho, since most of what I've read on the net seems to indicate you actually want a taller sidewall more than anything, and a 235/45 or 245/45 gives you that.

Some pics:
http://norcalmotorsports.org/users/video/image_hosting/Crzykdd/Chistmas%20Tahoe%202008/IMG_3366.jpghttp://norcalmotorsports.org/users/video/image_hosting/Crzykdd/Chistmas%20Tahoe%202008/PICT2747.jpg
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=101451&l=be50c&id=1562479483

[nightwalker]

I take my ABS fuse out. Gives me better braking control. Understanding how a car acts in snow and learning how to drive that goes a long way. I lived in Truckee almost four years and never had snow tires.