serious electrical issues

[redvolution]

Looking for anybody who might have encountered similar problems.

Toward the end of the thill track day I heard some new rattling from underneath the right front engine area. Never opened the hood to diagnose further and don't know if that's related to the short problem.

Stopped at Chevron to fill up for the drive home and when I got back in the car and turned the key, the instrument panel lights flashed and then I heard a few relays click. At no point did the start motor even engage. With the key turned lights were flashing and all sorts of bells were beeping irratically. I pulled my defi control unit and radio. At this point the factory gauge cluster was dead. I pulled no fuses (what I should have done first). My friend helped me jump it and it started up no problem.

On the weekend I found which 2 fuses control the radio and dome light (22 and 23) and pulled those which prevents the short from occurring when the car is standing still. However the car occasionally still cuts out when hitting some bumps and won't charge the battery. See below.

On the way home flashing the brights would cause a serious electrical brownout and the motor would even cut-out for a second. Large bumps occasionally caused the same problem. This is the most serious problem.

Next most serious problem: the battery is not being charged. The generator is only pulling about 85uA at rest and that matches my friend's evo. I haven't done the generator diagnostic procedure because I'm not even sure that's the problem. I checked the area around the generator this morning for anything loose or some wire that might be shorting but found nothing.

I going to try the generator test procedure next.

[earlyapex]

I take it you checked that the alt belt is still there? :wink: Did you check the alt ground?

Did you also follow both battery terminal wires and make sure they aren't cut / exposed anywhere? I know mine where semi-close to the shifter cables after I put my mini battery in.

Sounds like something is loose and ungrounding itself when you hit bumps.

[redvolution]

I take it you checked that the alt belt is still there? :wink: Did you check the alt ground?

Did you also follow both battery terminal wires and make sure they aren't cut / exposed anywhere? I know mine where semi-close to the shifter cables after I put my mini battery in.

Sounds like something is loose and ungrounding itself when you hit bumps.

What belt ;-) Seriously, the tension feels fine but I don't know where the alternator ground is. I have an '03 service manual and the charging system diagnostic mentions the generator body should be tied to ground but I don't know if there's a separate cable to do that. The removal instructions don't mention a cable that but it could be in some other section.

It might be the battery terminal wires because the positive one has to be stretched quite a bit to fit around the upper IC pipe although I didn't see any obvious problem this am.

[vtluu]

It might be the battery terminal wires because the positive one has to be stretched quite a bit to fit around the upper IC pipe although I didn't see any obvious problem this am.
Make sure it's not intermittently shorting to ground--I can see how it might rub against some metal part, stripping any insulation and shorting the cable.

[Matz]

It might be the battery terminal wires because the positive one has to be stretched quite a bit to fit around the upper IC pipe although I didn't see any obvious problem this am.
Make sure it's not intermittently shorting to ground--I can see how it might rub against some metal part, stripping any insulation and shorting the cable.

In addition, if no fuses have blown, then the possible short would obviously be pre-fuse and could very well be the cause of the problem (scary). Do you have access to an oscilloscope or something? You could put a probe on the + terminal and set it to trigger on a falling edge.

[redvolution]

In addition, if no fuses have blown, then the possible short would obviously be pre-fuse and could very well be the cause of the problem (scary). Do you have access to an oscilloscope or something? You could put a probe on the + terminal and set it to trigger on a falling edge.

None of the fuses are blown (in the under-hood fusebox anyway). If the generator test is inconclusive I'll bring home an oscilliscope from work to use. The service manual shows a variety of allowable waveforms for generator output.

Does anyone know how to remove the radio/dome-light fuses (22 & 23)? They are in the yellow cup and come up together. I tried to remove the cup but didn't see how it'd be possible without breaking it.

[earlyapex]

Did you follow all the cables?

[redvolution]

The generator passed the measurements (housing -> gnd and terminal B -> +) and is in spec. Presumably that means the battery is fried because it won't hold a charge.

A continuity check between the UICP and the battery ground showed no connection. I didn't have the time or light to follow all the cables because I only have a spot in a shared garage. I won't have time tonight to check anything but Friday morning I plan to follow the positive battery line as far as I can see it.

[redvolution]

I haven't fully installed everything back in the car but I believe I found the problem: the battery.

Sigh. ...stupid...should have checked the battery first...

I bought a decent tester/charger and it unsuccessfully tried to desulfate the battery (an Enersys Genesis Pure-Pb) and charge it. On the advice of a mechanic in my building I inverted the battery and tried again with the same results. I adapted the Nisei battery tray to hold my spare Odyssey PC-680MJ, connected everything, and the car started up no problem. I'll have to re-install the radio and gauges to be sure but now I'm 99% sure I found the problem. I did re-wire the positive terminal lines over the Nisei hard pipes and that eliminated most of the tension but I don't think that was the issue.

Based on the failure mode of the charger and the symptoms of my car, I've come to the following conclusion: the battery has an intermittent internal short that's caused by either physical shock or exceeding a certain charge level. Needless to say the battery is worthless now.

thanks for the suggestions...

[vtluu]

Glad you found the problem. :thumbsup:

[earlyapex]

I don't think your can / are supposed to attempt to charge the Hawker Genesis battery.

BTW, I have a brand new one sitting in my garage waiting to replace the older one that is in my car. If you order a new one, you can take this one if you need your car up and running like yesterday.

Just give me the ordered one when you get it.

Glad you got it figured out.

[redvolution]

Thanks for the offer Bryan but I figure I'll just use the PC-680MJ until it dies (hopefully not soon).

I waded through the manual before connecting the battery to the charger and determined that it is ok to charge it at up to 20amps (I only used 2). I also charged the PC-680MJ and that worked fine.

much more info than you could possibly want on charging these batteries:
http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US-GPL-AM-002_0605.pdf