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Cameron@xperformance
04-04-2006, 10:45 PM
both of the lines are with the new mods and still on the stock turbo. the base line was the setup we ran at fontana for the prosolo. shiv worked his magic on the XEDE and voila! a whole lotta torque

discuss.

http://i2.tinypic.com/szzddh.jpg

earlyapex
04-04-2006, 10:50 PM
Nice increases, the mid range torque curve is great.

Navid mentioned this was on 100 octane and also corrected numbers, do you have the uncorrected numbers?

What boost?

Cameron@xperformance
04-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Navid mentioned this was on 100 octane and also corrected numbers, do you have the uncorrected numbers?

What boost?
yes, the car is running 100 octane.

im not sure about the uncorrected numbers, but ill check on it..

the car is running 25psi peak but tapers very quickly because of the stock turbo.

earlyapex
04-04-2006, 11:09 PM
turbo is out of steam then.

All that torque is from the stroker.

The stroker will also make it run out of stream sooner than if that turbo was still on a 2.0L

I am making approx the same amount of WHP with the same amount of boost and the same amount of octane, but navid is up 40wtq. Of course these are different dynos, although FF dyno is pretty close.

I believe, other than the stroker, our mods are pretty close right now.

I cranked up the boost more and I didn't make any more HP and only a couple more pounds of trq.

When is he putting on a real turbo to match that stroker? :wink:

Cameron@xperformance
04-04-2006, 11:14 PM
All that torque is from the stroker.
who said anything about a stroker?


When is he putting on a real turbo to match that stroker?
the turbo is in development :wink:

earlyapex
04-04-2006, 11:29 PM
who said anything about a stroker?


Navid did, and I know he is running a stroker now anyway :wink:

Cameron@xperformance
04-04-2006, 11:40 PM
who said anything about a stroker?


Navid did, and I know he is running a stroker now anyway :wink:
when did he say that :lol:

Navid@xperformance
04-05-2006, 10:08 AM
turbo is out of steam then.

I am making approx the same amount of WHP with the same amount of boost and the same amount of octane, but navid is up 40wtq. Of course these are different dynos, although FF dyno is pretty close.

I believe, other than the stroker, our mods are pretty close right now.

That's not just the difference in a stroker. We have done work on the head and the intake manifold too.

dohcvtec
04-05-2006, 10:19 AM
It looks like you're at the limit of the stock turbo now, it is your bottle neck. I say you throw a GT35R on her. :)

Navid@xperformance
04-05-2006, 10:23 AM
It looks like you're at the limit of the stock turbo now, it is your bottle neck. I say you throw a GT35R on her. :) :lol: and what, join the NHRA? :lol:

--Navid

dohcvtec
04-05-2006, 10:26 AM
Haha, I would think that turbo would be ok for response being its attached to a stroker, no? I guess for auto-x though it might be a problem.

earlyapex
04-05-2006, 10:47 AM
How about you list all the mods done to the car with that dyno chart so everyone can have a better idea on where you're at, possible things to do to make more power, etc.

That way we don't have to guess all the time, or get info from 3rd party sources. :wink:

Saying "what stroker?", then asking what we think of the power is just dumb imho. Are you show boating or asking for ideas?

mygsx
04-05-2006, 03:40 PM
Have you got any charts for a tune on reg. pump piss gas? 8)

earlyapex
04-05-2006, 03:48 PM
Have you got any charts for a tune on reg. pump piss gas? 8)

I don't think Navid runs 91 octane.

leif
04-05-2006, 04:46 PM
who said anything about a stroker?


Navid did, and I know he is running a stroker now anyway :wink:
when did he say that :lol:

on the vishnu board among other places :roll:

gOt BoOsT
04-05-2006, 04:55 PM
shouldn't the torque curve be a little more flat with the stroker...or is that because of the stock turbo??

EVO GRIM
04-05-2006, 06:38 PM
turbo is killin the tq. I'd like to see the boost graph It prob falls like the tq. Cam's just tryin not to get in trouble with the old man.

Navid@xperformance
04-05-2006, 08:55 PM
Are you show boating or asking for ideas?Neither! I'm giving people who helped me their due credit.

I do all my show boating on the track. :lol:

--Navid

vtluu
04-05-2006, 10:24 PM
Are you show boating
... says the guy who has "301whp/287wtq 91oct - 320whp/300wtq 100oct Gruppe-s mustang dyno" in his sig; I guess he should know! :lol:

earlyapex
04-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Are you show boating
... says the guy who has "301whp/287wtq 91oct - 320whp/300wtq 100oct Gruppe-s mustang dyno" in his sig; I guess he should know! :lol:

Yes but I shared:

1. My mods
2. My AFR curves
3. My logs
4. My maps

earlyapex
04-05-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm giving people who helped me their due credit.

Where in this thread did you thank everyone that helped you?

Who built the block? Who ported the head? Who did the intake mods?

I don't see it...

Navid@xperformance
04-05-2006, 11:30 PM
I'm giving people who helped me their due credit.

Where in this thread did you thank everyone that helped you?

Who built the block? Who ported the head? Who did the intake mods?

I don't see it...Let's not split hairs. As I mentioned the first time I posted the dyno results on the other thread, Mike did the block and Shiv tuned the car. Cameron started this new thread when he scanned the dyno sheet and just posted the link to it in the other thread. He thought this would be the correct topic for the post.

If it wasn't for the fact that I wanted to thank Mike and Shiv, I would not even mention the power gain.

--Navid

earlyapex
04-05-2006, 11:34 PM
well, he posts it then says to discuss it. It's hard to discuss two lines on a dyno chart if people have no idea what the mods are or the boost is set at, or the octane.

That's all I have been saying this whole thread.

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 12:01 AM
Then maybe Cameron is show boating! :lol: The reality is he has no data...hell he has no car!!! I never meant to discuss my mods here and I never will unless I need to give people credit for their great work.

--Navid

nebolic
04-06-2006, 08:57 AM
Then maybe Cameron is show boating! :lol: The reality is he has no data...hell he has no car!!!
--Navid

that some funny stuff: Cameron your dad just called you out lol!

:D

nebo

vtluu
04-06-2006, 10:52 AM
I never meant to discuss my mods here and I never will
Now you're starting to sound like Mueller... ;)

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 10:57 AM
I never meant to discuss my mods here and I never will
Now you're starting to sound like Mueller... ;)

Pretty soon you will have to sign a NDA to watch him "showboat on the track".

vtluu
04-06-2006, 10:58 AM
Pretty soon you will have to sign a NDA to watch him "showboat on the track".
You're assuming I haven't. :sneaky:
:lol:

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 02:35 PM
I never meant to discuss my mods here and I never will
Now you're starting to sound like Mueller... ;)You live and you learn! I used to share everything I had done, but there are too many people on this list with hidden agendas waiting to pounce on every opportunity to criticize. I say "hidden agendas" because it's mostly not the vendors who do it. I had no idea there was such a rootless tuning war going on. It's too bad really because it prevents people from getting good information, but that's life. :(

The good news is people can still get any info they want privately, I just don't want to get in the middle of the tuning war.

--Navid

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 02:41 PM
Pretty soon you will have to sign a NDA to watch him "showboat on the track". :idea: Excellent idea!!!

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
Now you sound like buschur.

When did you share info? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I am trying to remember the last time you shared something openly without me or someone else prying it out of you.

Even your son was saying you don't have a stroker when I and others know you do. What is that about?

I don't see the rootless tuning war you are seeing. I call it like I see it until proven otherwise, I expect people to do the same to me, and they have.

What agenda do I have in any of this? I am a lone enthusiast doing my own thing, I don't sell or plan on selling anything I do. I give up all my information that I have learned freely. I tune/help tune peoples cars for free.

I don't understand when asking questions and even doubting things until shown otherwise turned into a bad thing. People think I am a jerk for doing that, I know this, but guess what, few others are doing it.

I'm not a sheeple and I am trying to make other people realize they don't have to be either.

I try to get more information out of you because you are out there breaking things and you have the opportunity to look more into why these things are breaking and let the community know so they don't do the same thing. You blew your motor, I and others weren't 100% sure it was because of a bad bearing or oil starvation. We questioned it and you freaked out. I don't understand why questioning things is so gawdamn bad on this board.

I asked all these questions in this thread to maybe help or bring up things that might help in your buildup of your car. I have been playing with 4G63's for 7 years. How long have you been playing with them? Maybe, just maybe, I might know something you are overlooking or haven't thought of...

Just because people are vendors does not automatically give them immunity from people questioning their methods and practices.

nebolic
04-06-2006, 03:04 PM
We questioned it and you freaked out. I don't understand why questioning things is so gawdamn bad on this board.

I asked all these questions in this thread to maybe help or bring up things that might help in your buildup of your car. I have been playing with 4G63's for 7 years. How long have you been playing with them?


because sometimes the tone of your questioning may seem to be offensive to some people.



Just because people are vendors does not automatically give them immunity from people questioning their methods and practices.



I hope you're not implying that we're providing "special privileges" to certain individuals on the board because we aren't

nebo

:D

vtluu
04-06-2006, 03:06 PM
I'm not a sheeple and I am trying to make other people realize they don't have to be either.
Have you been going to the MitsuMan Skool of Inglish? :?: :?: :?:

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 03:08 PM
because sometimes the tone of your questioning may seem to be offensive to some people.

I know this. I've been trying to not sound so offensive. I joke around alot in person, it's harder for tone to come across over the internet.




I hope you're not implying that we're providing "special privileges" to certain individuals on the board because we aren't


Not at all. I mean everytime I question or others question a vendor they either freak out and act like "Why are you questioning me? I am a vendor! Just trust me and everything will be ok" When we know this is not always the case. This is recockulious.

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm not a sheeple and I am trying to make other people realize they don't have to be either.
Have you been going to the MitsuMan Skool of Inglish? :?: :?: :?:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheeple

nebolic
04-06-2006, 03:11 PM
This is recockulious.

I like how you make up words :D

I'm gonna start implenting the EarlyApex English Language at my work :twisted:

nebo

P.S. I agree with you on the line of questioning but guess there isn't anything that can be done . . .

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 03:12 PM
This is recockulious.

I like how you make up words :D

I'm gonna start implenting the EarlyApex English Language at my work :twisted:


As much as I would love to say I invented that....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=recockulious

:wink:

vtluu
04-06-2006, 03:25 PM
As much as I would love to say I invented that....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=recockulious
So you even misspell "new" words like "ricockulous (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ricockulous)". :nana:

Fill in and print, TIA: http://www.kidscerts.com/images/a1spellerbrown.jpg (http://www.kidscerts.com/certs/freea1spellerbrown.pdf)

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 03:28 PM
As much as I would love to say I invented that....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=recockulious
So you even misspell "new" words like "ricockulous (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ricockulous)". :nana:


It's fantastical that you are getting me on spelling of a made-up word.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fantastical

and here you go, it's actually a real word and I sp3ll3d it right:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fantastical

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 05:26 PM
When did you share info? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but I am trying to remember the last time you shared something openly without me or someone else prying it out of you.Take a look at one of my first posts on this forum:

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4319

I shared everything I was running in that thread. I was pretty much running the same setup all year long until I spun the rod bearing at TH this year. You, yourself listed every aftermarket bolt and nuts on my car from information I posted here and on Evolutionm. Come on dude, let's not play that game. I just don't post often because here is not where I do my "show boating". :lol:


Even your son was saying you don't have a stroker when I and others know you do. What is that about?He was being funny. And again, how did you know that information. If I really didn't want people to know, you would not know.


What agenda do I have in any of this?Did I say it was you? Did you say something in the past that would cause that kind of perception?


I don't understand when asking questions and even doubting things until shown otherwise turned into a bad thing. People think I am a jerk for doing that, I know this, but guess what, few others are doing it.We've been over this before. There are a million different ways to ask a question. You don't ask a question, you talk down to people. I guess you believe you can catch more flies with vineger than honey.


You blew your motor, I and others weren't 100% sure it was because of a bad bearing or oil starvation. We questioned it and you freaked out. I don't understand why questioning things is so gawdamn bad on this board.Again, that was not a question. You basically accused me of doctoring pictures. To prove what? I have no motivation to spread misinformation. I shared information and all I got in return was bunch of accusations. You still wonder why I think people have hidden agendas?


I asked all these questions in this thread to maybe help or bring up things that might help in your buildup of your car. I have been playing with 4G63's for 7 years. How long have you been playing with them? Maybe, just maybe, I might know something you are overlooking or haven't thought of...I never claimed to know 4G63's. Hell, I'm even new to turbos. So, I'll take any information from people I respect. Respect comes from treating others with respect and achieving results. You're batting .500.


Just because people are vendors does not automatically give them immunity from people questioning their methods and practices.Dude, don't even go there. When was the last time I tried to peddle something here. I left my job as a VP of engineering in software to do this because I'm an enthusiast. Your vendor bashing gets really old!

--Navid

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 06:49 PM
Take a look at one of my first posts on this forum:

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4319

I shared everything I was running in that thread. I was pretty much running the same setup all year long until I spun the rod bearing at TH this year. You, yourself listed every aftermarket bolt and nuts on my car from information I posted here and on Evolutionm. Come on dude, let's not play that game. I just don't post often because here is not where I do my "show boating". :lol:

Awesome. One thread, and I posted the list because people asked and you just gave bits and pieces.


He was being funny. And again, how did you know that information. If I really didn't want people to know, you would not know.

I know it because you posted it on other forums.


Did I say it was you? Did you say something in the past that would cause that kind of perception?

Give me a break, who else would you be talking about?


We've been over this before. There are a million different ways to ask a question. You don't ask a question, you talk down to people. I guess you believe you can catch more flies with vineger than honey.

Like you said, a million different ways to ask a question, unfortunatly, sarcasm doesn't work well over the internet. See my reply to Nebo's very same question above.


Again, that was not a question. You basically accused me of doctoring pictures. To prove what? I have no motivation to spread misinformation. I shared information and all I got in return was bunch of accusations. You still wonder why I think people have hidden agendas?

Show me where I accused you of doctoring photos. I asked if the edge of the pistons where messed up because it was hard to tell because the photos you took sucked. How is that saying you where doctoring the photos. You came back and freaked out, saying that and didn't even answer my question.


I never claimed to know 4G63's. Hell, I'm even new to turbos. So, I'll take any information from people I respect. Respect comes from treating others with respect and achieving results. You're batting .500.

Then stop freaking out when I ask about things or say maybe this happened , or this. Just ignore me if you just think that everything that comes out of my mouth is a hidden agenda. Does the FBI call your house often?

What results are we talking about? I don't achieve results with my methods? I'm batting .500 in reference to what?

Last time I checked, I'm making the same power as you, my motor is still in one piece, I track the car almost as often, and drive it/beat on it daily. 26,000 miles and counting.


Dude, don't even go there. When was the last time I tried to peddle something here. I left my job as a VP of engineering in software to do this because I'm an enthusiast. Your vendor bashing gets really old!

.....and.... that.... is exactly my point.

StockEVO
04-06-2006, 06:52 PM
3 words!

Lack of oil!

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 07:19 PM
3 words!

Lack of oil!One picture!
http://www.xperformance.com/images/accusump.jpg

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 07:26 PM
One picture!

Is there a reason why you truck mounted it instead of in the engine bay somewhere?

Obviously it's easier to find space there but is there any concern with oil line length, etc?

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 07:51 PM
I know it because you posted it on other forums.Then how am I withholding information? Most people on this forum are also on Evolutionm.


Show me where I accused you of doctoring photos. I asked if the edge of the pistons where messed up because it was hard to tell because the photos you took sucked. How is that saying you where doctoring the photos. You came back and freaked out, saying that and didn't even answer my question.The picture was accompanied by this sentense:

If the damage was cause by detonation, the piston and the head would take the blunt of it and would show signs. Mine are cherry! to which you replied:

Is it just the photo or does that upper left part of the piston look like garbarge around the edges?
When I say the piston was cherry and you come back with that, how do you interpret it?



I never claimed to know 4G63's. Hell, I'm even new to turbos. So, I'll take any information from people I respect. Respect comes from treating others with respect and achieving results. You're batting .500.

What results are we talking about? I don't achieve results with my methods? I'm batting .500 in reference to what?Read it again. The sentence before it has 2 parts and I actually complimented you on achieving results. Or did you think .500 was for respectful behavior? :lol:


Last time I checked, I'm making the same power as you, my motor is still in one piece, I track the car almost as often, and drive it/beat on it daily. 26,000 miles and counting.Talk about freaking out!!! Just for the record, it's not how often you track your car, it's how hard you track your car. Come talk to me when you break the 2:00 mark.

--Navid

gOt BoOsT
04-06-2006, 07:57 PM
is it everyone's time of the month??

Navid@xperformance
04-06-2006, 07:57 PM
One picture!

Is there a reason why you truck mounted it instead of in the engine bay somewhere?

Obviously it's easier to find space there but is there any concern with oil line length, etc?It's too big to fit in the engine compartment. We needed more weight in the right rear anyway. There are no concerns with the length of the line. The line is not flexible, so pressure is directly transfered. This is the same setup as the Good sport USTCC car with one exception. Mine has an electric selenoid, theirs is manual with the valve placed near the driver.

--Navid

earlyapex
04-06-2006, 08:02 PM
All the other stuff we are both just going around in circles with so I didn't even bother quoting it....


Talk about freaking out!!! Just for the record, it's not how often you track your car, it's how hard you track your car. Come talk to me when you break the 2:00 mark.


I knew you would say this, which is why I said I also daily drive my car, it has 26,000 miles on it. I beat on it every day. Trust me, I track it hard. Doesn't fast lap times come from smoothness anyway?

Since we are kok swinging, I'm not a pro driver, I am on small little 255 RA1s and Cracker Jack $1k coilovers and I still manage a 2:05 with no bypass. is that slow or something?

Sure your big hoosiers might have contributed to higher G oil starvation... I'm not debating that whatsoever.

Anyway, we are beating a dead horse at this point... Thanks for the info on the accusump placement.

ob4
04-06-2006, 08:36 PM
Respect comes from treating others with respect


+1

vtluu
04-07-2006, 02:36 AM
Doesn't fast lap times come from smoothness anyway?
Smoothness... and 300+ whp. :lol: 5 seconds a lap is a lot of time. 5 seconds is the difference between a Kimi Raikkonen and a Yuji Ide. Seriously though, 5 seconds is the difference between oil-starving your engine, and not. Given the same amount of power, the amount of extra speed you have to carry through the turns to get 5 seconds a lap means significantly more G's.


Respect comes from treating others with respect
:werd: Bryan's got one of the most "Dr.-Jekyll-and-Mr.-Hyde" offline-vs-online personalities that I know...

nebolic
04-07-2006, 09:01 AM
Doesn't fast lap times come from smoothness anyway?
Smoothness... and 300+ whp. :lol: 5 seconds a lap is a lot of time. 5 seconds is the difference between a Kimi Raikkonen and a Yuji Ide. Seriously though, 5 seconds is the difference between oil-starving your engine, and not. Given the same amount of power, the amount of extra speed you have to carry through the turns to get 5 seconds a lap means significantly more G's.


Respect comes from treating others with respect
:werd: Bryan's got one of the most "Dr.-Jekyll-and-Mr.-Hyde" offline-vs-online personalities that I know...

why the sudden change in Bryan's personality... has he been watching Broke Back Mountain with Methods4???

nebo

EVO GRIM
04-07-2006, 09:20 AM
They do make a cute couple.

bdking57
04-07-2006, 09:39 AM
I once heard a lowely citadel freshman say that to his drill instructor... It was the wrong choice of words. :o




Respect comes from treating others with respect


+1

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 10:55 AM
why the sudden change in Bryan's personality... has he been watching Broke Back Mountain with Methods4???

nebo

Sudden change? I'm a Cancer, welcome to passive-aggressive land. :shock: :wink:

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 11:00 AM
Doesn't fast lap times come from smoothness anyway?
Smoothness... and 300+ whp. :lol: 5 seconds a lap is a lot of time. 5 seconds is the difference between a Kimi Raikkonen and a Yuji Ide. Seriously though, 5 seconds is the difference between oil-starving your engine, and not. Given the same amount of power, the amount of extra speed you have to carry through the turns to get 5 seconds a lap means significantly more G's.


This is splitting hairs but since when did Navid do 2:00 over the top without the bypass?

vtluu
04-07-2006, 11:33 AM
Over the top. 1:59.7.

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 11:39 AM
Over the top. 1:59.7.

I thought that time was with the bypass. If that is indeed over the top then his car is 6 seconds faster then mine. 2:05.8 :D

Is that with Hoosiers or RA1s?

vtluu
04-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Nope, definitely over the top. Same day he blew up his engine. Don't know about the tires; I know Navid likes to run Kumho V710s but he also has a set of RA1s.

Navid@xperformance
04-07-2006, 12:05 PM
This is splitting hairs but since when did Navid do 2:00 over the top without the bypass?On the same day I spun the rod bearing. It was mentioned in the oilpan thread. 1:59.7 on the AMB transponder. I think 10 people who are on this forum were witness to it since it was the same day as the WORKS driver search.

Tam said it all. At the time I did the 1:59.7, my car was making 13whp less than yours, so I had to make up that time in the corners on my corded v710s. I agree that speed comes with smoothness. Driving hard does not mean dirt tracking it around the course; it means getting the most out of the amount of grip you have. And trust me, I'm no pro driver either.

Anyway, the point is not who is faster, but what conditioned the car is subject to. I think we are in agreement that the increased amount of G forces in the corners we are demanding of this car pushes it's engine beyond the parameters it was designed for. Rally cars pull G's, but not sustained G's encountered in turn 2-3 at TH and in turn 6 at Sears on grippy tires.

--Navid

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 12:13 PM
This is splitting hairs but since when did Navid do 2:00 over the top without the bypass?On the same day I spun the rod bearing. It was mentioned in the oilpan thread. 1:59.7 on the AMB transponder. I think 10 people who are on this forum were witness to it since it was the same day as the WORKS driver search.

I don't need proof, I believe you. For some reason I thought it was with bypass, but I guess not. That's cooking. Sneaking up on the Muellerized car now! :wink:

Ok, who wants to give me $5,000 coilovers, more tire and take 300lbs out of my car? I want sub 2:00's too! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Navid, when you say dirt tracking it around the course, do you mean driving sliding all over the place?

vtluu
04-07-2006, 12:15 PM
Rally cars don't pull that many G's, simply because it's hard to sustain (or even get up to) over 1G on gravel. ;) Rally is extremely hard on brakes, though... But that's another story for another day...

Navid@xperformance
04-07-2006, 12:31 PM
Ok, who wants to give me $5,000 coilovers, more tire and take 300lbs out of my car? I want sub 2:00's too! :cry: :cry: :cry:You can buy mine for $3K since I have not been able to get them to go faster than my single adjustable Ohlins yet. As a matter of fact, I was running Ohlins in front and Motons in the back and having severe push problems on that same day. Better yet, I can drive your car and spot you 2 seconds. Would that stop your whining? :evil:


Navid, when you say dirt tracking it around the course, do you mean driving sliding all over the place?Sliding, counter-steering, shuffling the steering wheel...rally style.

--Navid

nebolic
04-07-2006, 12:32 PM
Rally cars don't pull that many G's, simply because it's hard to sustain (or even get up to) over 1G on gravel. ;) Rally is extremely hard on brakes, though... But that's another story for another day...

how many G's do the rally car sustain when they go over those crazy ass jumps, i'm curious.

nebo

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 12:41 PM
Ok, who wants to give me $5,000 coilovers, more tire and take 300lbs out of my car? I want sub 2:00's too! :cry: :cry: :cry:You can buy mine for $3K since I have not been able to get them to go faster than my single adjustable Ohlins yet. As a matter of fact, I was running Ohlins in front and Motons in the back and having severe push problems on that same day. Better yet, I can drive your car and spot you 2 seconds. Would that stop your whining? :evil:


See, this is where internet sarcasm doesn't translate. I was mearly making a good hearted joke. :wink: I know it's all driver from all the GT3's and Modena challenges I have passed on track. :D I know you are much faster then me, I am mearly just shit talking at this point. :wink:

Are you going to the NCE meet in a couple weeks? I would love to finally meet each other so we can just kiss and make up and share some laughs in person. Like others have said, my joking nature comes across much better in real life.

This thread has basically made me realize I need to chill out online more so then I have tried in the last couple months because things just do not translate well, either that or I need to copy paste 10,000 winky and smilley faces in all my posts from here on out.

:wink: :wink: :wink: :D :D :D

Nobody drives my car except for me. I had the RRE race car driver drive my car 7 years ago at streets of willow springs and he almost took my car out into a civic. I will never let anyone else drive my car again. :lol:


Sliding, counter-steering, shuffling the steering wheel...rally style.

If you see me drive on track, you'll see I don't drive like that, I like keeping my car in one piece. :D

Navid@xperformance
04-07-2006, 01:27 PM
Are you going to the NCE meet in a couple weeks? I would love to finally meet each other so we can just kiss and make up and share some laughs in person. Like others have said, my joking nature comes across much better in real life. I heard that about you. I mean the fact that you are a nice guy in person, not the fact that you kiss guys. :lol: I'll try to make it to the event on the 16th.


Nobody drives my car except for me. I had the RRE race car driver drive my car 7 years ago at streets of willow springs and he almost took my car out into a civic. I will never let anyone else drive my car again. :lol:I understand. I won't let anyone drive my car after the American touge thing either.

--Navid

vtluu
04-07-2006, 01:28 PM
how many G's do the rally car sustain when they go over those crazy ass jumps, i'm curious.
That's easy, during a jump (when the car is off the ground) the car is subject only to gravity (and aerodynamic forces but those are relatively small), so the car sustains 1G downwards.

High school physics FTW! :lol:

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 01:44 PM
I'll try to make it to the event on the 16th.


22nd.

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9428

Karting too! :wink:

nebolic
04-07-2006, 01:55 PM
how many G's do the rally car sustain when they go over those crazy ass jumps, i'm curious.
That's easy, during a jump (when the car is off the ground) the car is subject only to gravity (and aerodynamic forces but those are relatively small), so the car sustains 1G downwards.

High school physics FTW! :lol:

i meant when the car reaches the ground after the jump, how much pressure and force are we talking about being exterted on the car when it lands? It looks like it hurts the car mucho when i see them land after the jump.

nebo

MarkSAE
04-07-2006, 01:57 PM
how many G's do the rally car sustain when they go over those crazy ass jumps, i'm curious.
That's easy, during a jump (when the car is off the ground) the car is subject only to gravity (and aerodynamic forces but those are relatively small), so the car sustains 1G downwards.

High school physics FTW! :lol:

When you hit the ground after the jump, the car, the passengers, and the whole drivetrain is subjected to some really high g-forces. I design parts for military vehicles and the requirement we use for vertical g-shock loading is 15g's. Of course some military vehicles are air dropped.. ;)

MarkSAE
04-07-2006, 02:05 PM
I should clarify that the 15g loading used for the design requirement does not mean that that's what the vehicle actually sees. That includes a certain safety cushion in it. The number of g-forces a vehicle sees really depends on the severity of the jump and what it hits when it lands.

I would guess that if a vehicle is still moving forward after a jump, that it probably sees around 1-2g's on impact.

vtluu
04-07-2006, 02:10 PM
All I know is, don't jump an Evo with stock suspension... Unless you like giving the bottom of your car some road rash. Ask me how I know. The With Ohlins and 10k springs, on the other hand, the car seems to be okay with short trips in the air. :lol:

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 02:14 PM
All I know is, don't jump an Evo with stock suspension... Unless you like giving the bottom of your car some road rash. Ask me how I know. The With Ohlins and 10k springs, on the other hand, the car seems to be okay with short trips in the air. :lol:

Reminds me of messing with the RRE guys outside their old shop in 1998.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/rreimages/jumpreg.jpg

turbotiger
04-07-2006, 02:15 PM
I remember hearing that if you drop something from about waist high, it will hit the ground at around 4-5 g's.

As long as the object doesn't hit terminal velocity at that height, the weight of the object shouldn't matter.

Someone who actually took physics, please tell me if I'm right or not.

Navid@xperformance
04-07-2006, 02:15 PM
I'll try to make it to the event on the 16th.


22nd.

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9428

Karting too! :wink:Right, that's NCRC on the 16th. I'll be at the LMK on 22nd for the NCE event and the 15th for another car show.

--Navid

MarkSAE
04-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Does anyone have that car jumping compilation video? I remember it was in one of shootout videos.

vtluu
04-07-2006, 02:20 PM
The number of Gs will depend on the stiffness of the suspension and the suspension travel. That is to say, once the car touches the ground again its downwards kinetic energy will be dissipated over the distance that the suspension will compress, and over the time it takes to compress the suspension. Ideally you don't want to run out of suspension travel on landing, i.e. hit the bumpstops, because then there's no more spring/shock compression to absorb the energy of impact (remember "shock absorbers" are called that for a reason). For example, imagine you had a suspension with zero travel--the landing is going to be pretty hard (and chances are you'd also bounce), compared to if you had a suspension that compresses.

turbotiger
04-07-2006, 02:26 PM
Heh, I still have the DSM shootout video with the car jumping scene / commercial in it.

In fact, Rick still has me jumping my DSM in the hills of San Francisco.

http://www.gearjammin.com/Jump.mov

I know the quality is low, but it really is me.

Ok, link updated, hopefully.

dohcvtec
04-07-2006, 02:40 PM
linkie no workie

john@rre
04-11-2006, 06:55 PM
Ok, who wants to give me $5,000 coilovers, more tire and take 300lbs out of my car? I want sub 2:00's too! :cry: :cry:
Actually we ran 59s with the cyclone on FLT A2 JICs (not 5K ones :D) , stock longblock, and the white bunny turbo in the heat of this past July. For weight reduction we added 200 pounds of .120 wall DOM tubing, and of course we run the stock bumper beams front and rear. Tires will help of course, but the easiest place to lose laptime is by making adjustments to the wheel spacer between the ears.

AreSTG
04-11-2006, 07:10 PM
I remember hearing that if you drop something from about waist high, it will hit the ground at around 4-5 g's.

As long as the object doesn't hit terminal velocity at that height, the weight of the object shouldn't matter.

Someone who actually took physics, please tell me if I'm right or not.

dpnt forget the car is moveing forward, not falling straight down, also they are usually landing on a downhill from what i see alot so take that into account too

Navid@xperformance
04-12-2006, 10:05 AM
Actually we ran 59s with the cyclone on FLT A2 JICs (not 5K ones :D) , stock longblock, and the white bunny turbo in the heat of this past July. For weight reduction we added 200 pounds of .120 wall DOM tubing, and of course we run the stock bumper beams front and rear. Tires will help of course, but the easiest place to lose laptime is by making adjustments to the wheel spacer between the ears.John, are you talking about the July 10th qualifying last year? I could be mistaken, but I think that was with the bypass.

--Navid

john@rre
04-12-2006, 11:33 AM
I could be mistaken, but I think that was with the bypass.
--Navid
The SCCA does not use the bypass. And yes, you are mistaken. :D

We have not run our Muellerized Evo with the bypass ever, we ran 57s just after a car (with a dry sump) had blown up and oiled down from turn 6 to turn 10, if we had matched our test day times the lap record would be much lower. Judging from other cars running both t-hill configurations, we should run 55 flat to mid 54s with the bypass.

earlyapex
04-12-2006, 11:40 AM
haha, see I'm not the only one that got someones times mistaken with bypass or no-bypass. :wink:

methods4
04-12-2006, 11:51 AM
Heh, I still have the DSM shootout video with the car jumping scene / commercial in it.

In fact, Rick still has me jumping my DSM in the hills of San Francisco.

http://www.gearjammin.com/Jump.mov

I know the quality is low, but it really is me.

Ok, link updated, hopefully.

Ah such a classic clip. I remember seeing that a loooooong time ago thinking that you were crazy.

vtluu
04-12-2006, 12:49 PM
The SCCA does not use the bypass. And yes, you are mistaken. :D

We have not run our Muellerized Evo with the bypass ever, we ran 57s just after a car (with a dry sump) had blown up and oiled down from turn 6 to turn 10, if we had matched our test day times the lap record would be much lower. Judging from other cars running both t-hill configurations, we should run 55 flat to mid 54s with the bypass.
I still have a video of the 1:59 lap here: http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album06/TH1_59.wmv

As you can see, it is indeed over the Eagle's Nest (turn 5).

Navid@xperformance
04-12-2006, 01:24 PM
The SCCA does not use the bypass. And yes, you are mistaken. :DI stand corrected!


We have not run our Muellerized Evo with the bypass ever, we ran 57s just after a car (with a dry sump) had blown up and oiled down from turn 6 to turn 10, if we had matched our test day times the lap record would be much lower. Judging from other cars running both t-hill configurations, we should run 55 flat to mid 54s with the bypass.Since we are, as bryan so articulately puts it, "kok waving", my 1:59.7 over the top was with only 307 to the wheels, 2950lbs dry with no driver, on mismatched shocks front and back with severe push, and corded tires. We all have our excuses like a good racer should. :lol:

--Navid

earlyapex
04-12-2006, 01:28 PM
Since we are, as bryan so articulately puts it, "kok waving"

kok swinging :wink:

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=126243#126243

Navid@xperformance
04-12-2006, 01:38 PM
kok swinging :wink:
I stand correct again! :oops:

hagakure
04-12-2006, 01:49 PM
I would have to agree with John that this is the best place to gain lap time. I ran a best of 2:06 with bypass at the last NASA event in TTA, and was perplexed as to why I was not going faster with the changes I have made to my car, better suspension, more power (290 WHP 260 torque on Gruppe S mustang Dyno)....then I looked at my video. My driving was, frankly, apalling. In the shootout session I allowed myself to be drawn into following other cars, tracing their line, instead of using the entire track, driving the correct line. I was also braking WAAAY too early for almost every corner, and not looking through the apex, being fixated on my braking points. Much of this was due to the excitement of the moment, but more so to a lack of discipline, focus, and concentration. I know I can go 3-4 seconds faster if I just do what I know how to do. So, the application of technique and skill cannot be discounted in the least. I am absolutely certain that Navid, or a few other drivers could take my car and go sub 2:00 at thunderhill with it. The issue for me is certainly not the car. It's the driver, and by the end of the year much more progress will be made int his area, and 2:06 will be a distant memory...but it will take the further aquisition and application of SKILL.







Ok, who wants to give me $5,000 coilovers, more tire and take 300lbs out of my car? I want sub 2:00's too! :cry: :cry:
Actually we ran 59s with the cyclone on FLT A2 JICs (not 5K ones :D) , stock longblock, and the white bunny turbo in the heat of this past July. For weight reduction we added 200 pounds of .120 wall DOM tubing, and of course we run the stock bumper beams front and rear. Tires will help of course, but the easiest place to lose laptime is by making adjustments to the wheel spacer between the ears.