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View Full Version : Ported Exhaust manifold!



BaseModelEvo
04-07-2006, 10:34 AM
Stock is nice. Mine is better. Power comes on a bit earlier, and pulls harder downlow. o2 Housing is next. This was done IN-HOUSE. Here's some pics of the finished work. My cylinder head specialist is a Mondello School Grad. 1 of 3 top grads in the las TEN YEARS. So he's pretty damned decent. He didn't touch the floor (I know it looks as though he did, but CFM is commonly lost there) he just shined it up and removed some casting imperfections for the pics. Definitely a worth-while mod if you plan to stay OEM looking! Thanks for checking me out! Please don't post simply to "naye-say"....all comments, suggestions, questions are VERY welcome!

BEFORE AND AFTER
http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0622.JPG

SCROLL PORTS
http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0623.JPG

COMPLETED PORT
http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0629.JPG

ENTIRE MANIFOLD
http://www.garagedonline.com/images/IMG_0627.JPG

Lemme know what you all think!

L8eight
04-07-2006, 10:38 AM
interesting, how much do you guys charge? and have you flow benched this? your probably gonna get this thread locked down unless you speak with a mod about vendor status.

BaseModelEvo
04-07-2006, 10:42 AM
I'm not advertising anything, just showing off my manifold. It happens to be done in house.

Matz
04-07-2006, 10:42 AM
Looks nice! I had my spare done at RRE, and the two look about the same. The main diff. is that they painted mine with high temp flat gray paint, so it looks nice on the outside, too. But if you go the next step and have it JetHot coated, it'll be even better! That's my next step after I drill the EGT holes.

BaseModelEvo
04-07-2006, 10:46 AM
But if you go the next step and have it JetHot coated, it'll be even better! That's my next step after I drill the EGT holes.

Yeah, I haven't done my EGT hole yet, so it's not coated, but it will be. Thanks for the comment!

earlyapex
04-07-2006, 11:07 AM
Looks nice.

Is it just cleaned up or is it also gasket matched?

MarkSAE
04-07-2006, 11:55 AM
What tool do you use to get that deep into the runners? Did you just sane the inside runner walls smooth? Or did you enlarge the runners slightly? Looks good! I port-matched the outlet of my exhaust manifold to the gasket and left the runners alone cuz I was lazy. hehe..

L8eight
04-07-2006, 01:35 PM
werd thanks basemodel evo for the PM, YGPM!!!

lqdchkn
04-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Dood, sweet. I've been looking to have this done on my extra mani. Where are you and how much?

MitsuMan
04-07-2006, 07:41 PM
do it your self I did me DSM with a Die Grinder and a carbide bit

lqdchkn
04-07-2006, 08:31 PM
do it your self I did me DSM with a Die Grinder and a carbide bit

I've tryed before and had only satasfactory results. So I decided to leave it to the pro's.

MarkSAE
04-07-2006, 08:41 PM
I've tryed before and had only satasfactory results. So I decided to leave it to the pro's.

Practice makes perfect! I'm sure you can score some old DSM exhaust pieces dirt cheap. You should practice on those before you do your own.

Matz
04-07-2006, 09:34 PM
Dood, sweet. I've been looking to have this done on my extra mani. Where are you and how much?

FYI, $80 from RRE.

earlyapex
04-10-2006, 06:13 PM
Holy F, you guys are charging $200 to do it?

http://www.craigslist.org/nby/pts/148852630.html

StockEVO
04-10-2006, 06:19 PM
Have you installed it yet? I believe the paint they use is some weird hazardous crap. Supposed to have that gold/tan color when heated up. Same color as stainless steel headers look like when it gone with it's heat cycles.


Looks nice! I had my spare done at RRE, and the two look about the same. The main diff. is that they painted mine with high temp flat gray paint, so it looks nice on the outside, too. But if you go the next step and have it JetHot coated, it'll be even better! That's my next step after I drill the EGT holes.

Matz
04-10-2006, 06:32 PM
Have you installed it yet? I believe the paint they use is some weird hazardous crap. Supposed to have that gold/tan color when heated up. Same color as stainless steel headers look like when it gone with it's heat cycles.

Nope, not yet. Lucky for me, I'm sending it to JetHot to get coated, so all of that paint is going to get stripped off anyway. :)

trinydex
05-08-2006, 11:41 AM
did rre gasket match your mani?

BaseModelEvo
05-17-2006, 08:02 PM
Gasket matching is pointless.

did rre gasket match your mani?



Why, it's pointless? If it's ported it should be matched to the mani and turbo inlet anyway. It shouldn't even be a "did they?" We do it automatically. It's little things here and there. No crazy power. But smoother pull and earlier spool. Power comes on nicely, less chaotic. I'm sure the dyno charts will look a bit smoother. I'll post them in a couple weeks after I get mine on the dyno. It needs tuning, bad. Lots of fuel, ready for some more boost....

Here:
"Port Matching vs. Gasket Matching - Port matching is not the same as gasket matching. Port matching is lining up the ports on an engine so there is no abrupt wall change when going from the intake runners to the cylinder head ports. Gasket matching accomplishes the same thing but the ports will be opened up to the gasket size. Okay so what's the big deal? If you gasket match the port may go from small to big and back to small because it was opened up too big at the gasket surface. The bottom line is you might lose a little power by doing a gasket match instead of a good port match."

Taken from ClassicMustang.com

trinydex
05-17-2006, 09:51 PM
i asked because there are lots of other people that don't offer an exact port match but only a polish but still advertise it as port and polish, which by your definition would be port matched..... but isn't of course. so i distinguish by asking if it's gasket matched cuz there's no mistaking that. and the gasket on the evo is well matched to the intake mani port from what i've seen in pictures.

Matz
05-17-2006, 09:52 PM
did rre gasket match your mani?


I ordered a port and polish.

BaseModelEvo
05-17-2006, 09:58 PM
i asked because there are lots of other people that don't offer an exact port match but only a polish but still advertise it as port and polish, which by your definition would be port matched..... but isn't of course. so i distinguish by asking if it's gasket matched cuz there's no mistaking that. and the gasket on the evo is well matched to the intake mani port from what i've seen in pictures.


Gasket matching is still incorrect because it widens the walls around the gasket. The air leaving the head must expand in the space the gasket was matched, then contract again after. Port matching leaves a void in that area of the appropriate conjoined components. It will lose power before it EVER makes it. We PORT MATCH. We match the port to the exhaust runner, NOT the gasket, which is considerably larger than the exhaust runner on the head.

trinydex
05-17-2006, 10:03 PM
mmm how big is the head port with regards to the gasket? basically in the end all i was asking is if there is a step in the flow. from what you've said apparently there is not. that's what i wanted to know.

there is a good 2mm of soot around every manifold i've seen come off an evo and i was believed it was because the manifold necks down. to smooth out the step was what i wanted to some day do.

if that is not the case and the gasket is responsible for hte suit and there is no step between the manifold and the head ports. then thank you for informing of that too.

vtluu
05-17-2006, 10:11 PM
Crap. I was just about start gasket matching my exhaust manifold. Now I'm confused. :?

trinydex
05-17-2006, 10:13 PM
btw basemodelevo... you say "we" you don't work for roadrace...

BaseModelEvo
05-17-2006, 10:49 PM
btw basemodelevo... you say "we" you don't work for roadrace...


I own a shop. "We" port. Hence the thread "Ported Exhaust Manifold." That's MY manifold ported by us or "WE."

I don't know how to explain better, but I'll try.

Take two pieces of pipe. a foot long each. Let's say the edges in which the pipe were cut are rough. Let's give the pipe an inside diamter of 2 inches, with a wall thickness of 1 inch.

Now you place these pipes end to end, and throw a gasket in between. Now blow air through them.

The air wont flow smoothly, because BEFORE and AFTER the gasket are rough edges. The gasket it'self is bigger than the pipe so it's not in the way.

Removing this debris using the gasket as a guide would be called "gasket matching." The problem is a gasket is normally BIGGER than the hole you're cleaning up. So by cleaning it you in crease the diameter. Now the pipe has an inside diameter of 2.2 inches by the gasket, and 2 inches before and after.

As HOT, RAPIDLY expanding air approaches this widened section, it to will want to expand, then it must immediately contract again, this will SLOW airflow.

PORT MATCHING, however, increases the size of the (usually) smaller port to match the larger port. In this way the air runs through a continuous diameter. During port maching, the gasket surfaces and imperfections will be smoothed away, but the inside diameter between the two pieces will be the same size or at worst have a slow gradual transition from one size to another. This is port matching. It is the correct way to improve airflow in most case.

For the same reason, not everyone can port a manifold, because it's about knowing WHAT to open up, and what to LEAVE ALONE.

Gasket matching simply cleans the casting surfaces and removes a WALL, but in doing this it still slows airflow in the pocket it creates. Hopefully this was helpfull. To some one. It took me forever to type. Damn...

BaseModelEvo
05-17-2006, 10:52 PM
there is a good 2mm of soot around every manifold i've seen come off an evo and i was believed it was because the manifold necks down. to smooth out the step was what i wanted to some day do.

There is not 2mm of soot in ANY manifold you've seen. There MAY BE a 1/32 of an inch IF THAT. It looks this because it builds in the absence of the gasket. Making it appear to be a layer. It's VERY thin and will spray off with carb/choke cleaner.

The reason for these deposits is fuel is heavier than air. It will appear most where air travels the least. Think the same function as a catch can. Air flows OVER a pit, oil drops down, air keeps flowing by. Fuel falls from the exhaust air the same way. Just FYI

trinydex
05-17-2006, 11:57 PM
i didn't need you to post that, i fully understand the difference between gasket matching and port matching. what you don't seem to understand is that other people have different standards and definitions and the only way i could express what i wanted to was by phrasing my question specifically in the way i had because the oem gasket is the same size as the ports and the manifold is smaller than the ports.

http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0629.JPG

http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0622.JPG

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=194070&highlight=ceramic+coated+manifold

these are your pictures and you stated that you did not take off the material to smooth the transition between the port and hte manifold as it did not justify extra time.

http://users2.ev1.net/~subaru/evo_web/EX_Manifold/Before_6.JPG

here is another picture of a manifold with the same soot marks.

anyway. i think what vluu and i would like to know is if the factory evo gasket is an exact match to the cylinder head ports. buschur told me yes. so why there is not gasket matching i cannot understand.

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 08:40 AM
You can't take more material than was orginally there. Period. And no, the gasket isn't EXACT, but it's damned close. There was no more room on my manifold to open it up without risking cracking the stock casting.

vtluu
05-18-2006, 11:52 AM
Okay, rather than continuing a drawn out int4rw3b argument, I decided to go actually look at someone's Evo8 4G63 head and see how it lined up against the exhaust manifold gasket. Here's what I found:

http://norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/exhaust_gasket.jpg

As you can see, the head side of the exhaust port is way "smaller" than the gasket on the bottom side, but lines up pretty well elsewhere with just a little material inside the gasket on the sides. I looked at all four ports and they were all exactly the same. As far as I know, the head hasn't been ported (will confirm with the owner, who wasn't in this morning).

trinydex
05-18-2006, 11:58 AM
could you get a picture of the gasket on the maniside? is the mani significantly smaller? cuz it's not so essential to muck with the heat ports but i feel it's more crucial to have a smooth entrance into the manifold (no sooty lip).

and also i don't mean that you have to bore out the manifold, it's actually better for spool to squish the flow, but a smooth transition IS important, that means removing lip!

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 11:58 AM
My stock gasket is a two-piece. I'll get some pics for you. The gasket you have a picture of is not stock, it's an A/M piece and it appears to be for an 89-99 DSM head.

vtluu
05-18-2006, 12:00 PM
could you get a picture of the gasket on the maniside? is the mani significantly smaller? cuz it's not so essential to muck with the heat ports but i feel it's more crucial to have a smooth entrance into the manifold (no sooty lip).

I could, but basically you already have it above, the "soot" is where there's a lip and no gasket, there really is that big a difference. (I've confirmed this on my own spare exhaust manifold.)

http://www.garagedonline.com/files/IMG_0622.JPG

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 12:02 PM
could you get a picture of the gasket on the maniside?

Mani-side is smaller. Problem is...there is not enough to room to safely port out the whole area the gasket does not cover without risking cracking the cast manifold. They crack easily without being ported. And as VTLUU pointed out, SOME disturbance is good for spool. Bot rapid expansion and remission WILL slow airflow. You want the exhaust to compact as it enter the turbine, EXHAUST expansion is essential. Hot air will always attempt to expand. So to an extent, yes, the compression is good. The problem with ONLY gasket matching is you're NOT improving the VOLUME of the flow, only the SMOOTHNESS of the flow, and the turbo wont respond to it much if at all.

vtluu
05-18-2006, 12:03 PM
My stock gasket is a two-piece. I'll get some pics for you. The gasket you have a picture of is not stock, it's an A/M piece and it appears to be for an 89-99 DSM head.

Uh, it's the right part number and it fits and it looks exactly like the gasket that's on my car.

vtluu
05-18-2006, 12:04 PM
And as VTLUU pointed out, SOME disturbance is good for spool.

I did? :?

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 12:05 PM
We're arguing over proven facts here. Call RRE or Buschur and ask them directly. PORTING and GASKET MATCHING are simply totally different. Gasket matching, were you to expand to that size, would ruin the manifold because you can port out ANYTHING behind the flange to that type of diameter. It's too big for the manifold. An A/M piece is needed. This is as good as a stock mani will get, give or take some flow. There's always some one out there better, we did a mighty decent job, however. Call Beau at SRM tuning, Call RRE, whoever. This manifold is correctly ported. It's stock, it wont get any better.

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 12:07 PM
...it's actually better for spool to squish the flow

Sorry Trinydex did. My error.

BaseModelEvo
05-18-2006, 12:08 PM
Uh, it's the right part number and it fits and it looks exactly like the gasket that's on my car.


My 9 is different. No arguement, but it is. Odd. Maybe that's the reason for this drawn out debate. By your standards on your gasket "gasket matching" would help, but it wont give you any power. My manifold is ported. It's just different, guy. Sorry.

MarkSAE
05-18-2006, 12:12 PM
My stock gasket is a two-piece. I'll get some pics for you. The gasket you have a picture of is not stock, it's an A/M piece and it appears to be for an 89-99 DSM head.


The flange and bolt-pattern of the evo exhaust manifold is the same as a DSM. *The stock evo exhaust manifold gasket is a 4-layer compared to the 2-layer of a DSM. *I verified this by taking my old DSM exhaust manifold gasket and placing in on my evo when I had my manifold off.

You can tell the design intent of the Mitsu engineers just by looking at the parts. The exhaust manifold outlet and turbine housing inlet sizes were meant to match the gasket size as the castings get them pretty close. The exh man inlet is noticeably smaller than the head port size. This was probably done on purpose, so I just left my inlets alone when I ported my manifold.

vtluu
05-18-2006, 01:40 PM
Thanks Mark, the gasket I have is a 4-layer one; the layers are held together with one little rivet at each end.

trinydex
05-18-2006, 01:58 PM
My stock gasket is a two-piece. I'll get some pics for you. The gasket you have a picture of is not stock, it's an A/M piece and it appears to be for an 89-99 DSM head.


The flange and bolt-pattern of the evo exhaust manifold is the same as a DSM. The stock evo exhaust manifold gasket is a 4-layer compared to the 2-layer of a DSM. I verified this by taking my old DSM exhaust manifold gasket and placing in on my evo when I had my manifold off.

You can tell the design intent of the Mitsu engineers just by looking at the parts. The exhaust manifold outlet and turbine housing inlet sizes were meant to match the gasket size as the castings get them pretty close. The exh man inlet is noticeably smaller than the head port size. This was probably done on purpose, so I just left my inlets alone when I ported my manifold.


it's definitely done on purpose, the reduction in diameter increases the speed of the gases which then spools your turbo faster. problem is those lazy mitsu guys didn't smooth out hte transition :[ silly mass manufacturers...

earlyapex
05-18-2006, 08:50 PM
Thanks Mark, the gasket I have is a 4-layer one; the layers are held together with one little rivet at each end.


Yup, so is the one on my car and the 2 OEM ones I have sitting on my shelf. ;)

StockEVO
05-26-2006, 01:22 PM
wow! great post!

:bump