6.5 TME, WR, IX 20g which one is better in your opinion?

[58177]

Ok, I've read alot about all three turbos in Evolutionm.net and here but which one do you guy's really think is worth it? My mods are Works throttle body, 269 power cams, p2 flash, Megan exhaust headers, Helix 02 housing, Injen exhaust system, and 10.5 hotside. I don't know what turbo to ugrade to. I want to know if I ugrade the turbo to one of the turbos above what else do I need to make it work, an intake system, fuel pump, boost controller, and ect..?

[GokuSSJ4]

you will not see much gains from any of those turbos. the best mod for your money is to do the 10.5 hotside (which you already have)
if you want more power out of your set up, then i would consider on changing the cams that you have to
HKS 272/272 w/ cam gears
along with a better management system

[58177]

Thanks for the advise, your suggestions are new for me since everyone tells me a new turbo is the way to go.

[MitsuMan]

well of the two I guess the 20g but you already have the hotside and that in itself is the major hp contributor of the 2 turbos. Vishnu says they both perform very much the same

[58177]

I want to reach 300whp, what mods do I need other than one of these turbos?

[EvoRicer]

Maybe a retune or Alky...hahaha

[58177]

I've been waitting all day for some answers. I get two and now you, Thanks Danny

[earlyapex]

I want to reach 300whp, what mods do I need other than one of these turbos?

300whp on a mustang dyno:

Cams / Fuel Pump / 10.5 hotside / MBC or ECU boost control / Tune

[Evo442]

I want to reach 300whp, what mods do I need other than one of these turbos?

I'm not sure that you can reach 300whp on a mustang dyno and your mods w/o a turbo upgrade. imho, the Works parts (ie cams, p2 flash) arent the best for achieving big numbers on a dyno.

I have no experience with the TME or IX 20g turbos but have some experience with the white rabbit. I dont know how those 3 turbos compare in price. The WR is not a good bang for the buck modification, but is a nice addition to an Evo 8. If you want big peak numbers and dont care about lag, get a big turbo. If you want more power throughout a wider powerband and better driveability than stock, the WR may be a good choice. I'd say 25whp (peak gain) is realistic with the WR.

Besides what you have, Works would reccomend a fuel pump upgrade if they added a WR to your car. Many other tuners would tell you that an injector upgrade would be in order, but Works doesn't think you need that. Of course you need to be tuned for the new turbo also. Works has off the shelf P2 flashes for the WR.

-david

[58177]

great info fellas, this is helping alot!

[Jamie@WORKS]

As mentioned, the WR isn't a dyno queen. So, don't look for huge jumps in HP/TQ numbers, but you can expect a much broader power band and increased mid to high RPM gains (where the stock turbo starts to give up). If you purchase the WR from WORKS, the upgraded flash is provided for you so you won't have to worry about additional tuning.

[trinydex]

tme9

[earlyapex]

As mentioned, the WR isn't a dyno queen. So, don't look for huge jumps in HP/TQ numbers, but you can expect a much broader power band and increased mid to high RPM gains (where the stock turbo starts to give up). If you purchase the WR from WORKS, the upgraded flash is provided for you so you won't have to worry about additional tuning.

I have yet to see these broader power bands you speak of with a WR on 91 octane.

[dohcvtec]

As mentioned, the WR isn't a dyno queen. So, don't look for huge jumps in HP/TQ numbers, but you can expect a much broader power band and increased mid to high RPM gains (where the stock turbo starts to give up). If you purchase the WR from WORKS, the upgraded flash is provided for you so you won't have to worry about additional tuning.

I have yet to see these broader power bands you speak of with a WR on 91 octane.
+1

[Jamie@WORKS]

As mentioned, the WR isn't a dyno queen. So, don't look for huge jumps in HP/TQ numbers, but you can expect a much broader power band and increased mid to high RPM gains (where the stock turbo starts to give up). If you purchase the WR from WORKS, the upgraded flash is provided for you so you won't have to worry about additional tuning.

I have yet to see these broader power bands you speak of with a WR on 91 octane.

Like I said, they aren't dyno queens. First-hand experience behind the wheel will allow you to feel the difference. Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot.

[vtluu]

With all due respect Jamie, I don't trust the butt dyno, mine or anybody else's. You made a testable claim: that the WR should make a broader power band. That's something that should be measurable on a chassis or road dyno. Surely someone must have such measurements to support those claims?

Science says that if a phenomemon or effect is real, it can be observed and measured. Believing in something without being able to record and measure it is plain superstition; I might as well just pray for more horsepower or sprinkle holy water on my turbo. Faith is fine for some things, but engine tuning isn't one of them.

[MitsuMan]

As mentioned, the WR isn't a dyno queen. So, don't look for huge jumps in HP/TQ numbers, but you can expect a much broader power band and increased mid to high RPM gains (where the stock turbo starts to give up). If you purchase the WR from WORKS, the upgraded flash is provided for you so you won't have to worry about additional tuning.

oooh a free generic flash

[earlyapex]

Like I said, they aren't dyno queens. First-hand experience behind the wheel will allow you to feel the difference. Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot.

I said POWER BANDS, not peak power. Did you really just reply to me saying that?

If you can feel a power difference, it will should up in the POWER BANDS on a dyno. That is hard evidence, not smoke and mirrors. Doesn't matter if it's a "dyno queen" or not, if the curves don't show added power, guess what, that means no power was added and butt dyno needs recaliberation!

Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot? Are you kidding?

[leif]

maybe the engine noise sounds better with a WR.

[GokuSSJ4]

With all due respect Jamie, I don't trust the butt dyno, mine or anybody else's. You made a testable claim: that the WR should make a broader power band. That's something that should be measurable on a chassis or road dyno. Surely someone must have such measurements to support those claims?

Science says that if a phenomemon or effect is real, it can be observed and measured. Believing in something without being able to record and measure it is plain superstition; I might as well just pray for more horsepower or sprinkle holy water on my turbo. Faith is fine for some things, but engine tuning isn't one of them.

did you ever get a chance to install and tune the IX evo turbo ? an what were your results ?

[EvoRicer]

maybe the engine noise sounds better with a WR.

Yea maybe it spools a lot louder which makes you think your pulling harder and fools the Butt Dyno!

[methods4]

Like I said, they aren't dyno queens. First-hand experience behind the wheel will allow you to feel the difference. Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot.

You heard it here first, folks. Dyno numbers are moot. Butt-dynos are not.

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/tony/forum/bigugh.gif

[turbotiger]

Like I said, they aren't dyno queens. First-hand experience behind the wheel will allow you to feel the difference. Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot.

The only thing I can think of that may not show up on a dyno, depending on what rpm you start dynoing at, is the titanium shaft and wheel. Other than that, power is power and should be seen on a dyno. Otherwise, it ain't there!

[Jamie@WORKS]

With all due respect Jamie, I don't trust the butt dyno, mine or anybody else's. You made a testable claim: that the WR should make a broader power band. That's something that should be measurable on a chassis or road dyno. Surely someone must have such measurements to support those claims?

Science says that if a phenomemon or effect is real, it can be observed and measured. Believing in something without being able to record and measure it is plain superstition; I might as well just pray for more horsepower or sprinkle holy water on my turbo. Faith is fine for some things, but engine tuning isn't one of them.

I don't trust mine either. However, mine is telling me a difference in my own car... which it has become quite intimate with over the last three years. I know of no true single item, back-to-back comparisions of a stock turbo vs. any of the other listed that occured on the same day, same dyno, same conditions, etc... No, not even from WORKS as every car that we've done involved multiple component changes. SRM has a dyno log from over a year ago that includes my identical setup minus the WR upgrade that's on there now. Sure I could go run a few pulls and bring up the results, but they aren't going to be valid. But if that's what some people need to feel all good about their internet ramblings, then maybe I'll take a trip over there.

[earlyapex]

I know of no true single item, back-to-back comparisions of a stock turbo vs. any of the other listed that occured on the same day, same dyno, same conditions, etc... No, not even from WORKS as every car that we've done involved multiple component changes.

So how can you say it's an improvement without any evidence? Just from what you feel?

I think my cholestrol went down because I feel a little better and I didn't eat a hamburger this week...

[leif]

you just need to be more intimate with your body bryan. that way you'd know your cholestorol went down. its more factual than any lousy piece of paper you doctor could give you.

what you really need is an ear dyno. much like listening to cam gears you need to listen to your breathing.

[dohcvtec]

you just need to be more intimate with your body bryan. that way you'd know your cholestorol went down. its more factual than any lousy piece of paper you doctor could give you.

what you really need is an ear dyno. much like listening to cam gears you need to listen to your breathing.
LOL!!!!
This thread is phunny. I have a bridge I would like to sell you. 8)

[earlyapex]

I have a bridge I would like to sell you. 8)

I'll only buy it if you have no photos or documentation.

[dohcvtec]

I have a bridge I would like to sell you. 8)

I'll only buy it if you have no photos or documentation.
Well, I do have one photo I can show you. The butt dyno says this one is a winner!!
http://www.civil.ibaraki.ac.jp/shmii/tacoma-narrows-bridge.JPG

[earlyapex]

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/misc/board_shit/lol_mouth.jpg

[smack]

that's an amazing video to watch :shock:

[vtluu]

Ah, good ole' Galloping Gertie. I think the cost of losing the Tacoma Narrows bridge was well worth the most memorable example of resonant frequencies it's made in every high school physics textbook ever published since.

[Xerxes]

[quote="Jamie@WORKS"]
Other than that, power is power and should be seen on a dyno. Otherwise, it ain't there!

This only applies to tuners with Dynos (Vishnu, Gruppe-S, Fftec, EIP, SRM, Dinan, Lingenfelter, Callaway, etc,.) Tuners without dynos (Works, local muffler shop, etc,.) somehow manage to extract special conditional power out of an engine. This power is only available during subjective testing (canyon runs for instance). It is a very clever kind of power. The kind that hides when it is measured objectively. It doesn't like to show off. ;) Amazing what a bunch of engineers can do!

[AreSTG]

Ah, good ole' Galloping Gertie. I think the cost of losing the Tacoma Narrows bridge was well worth the most memorable example of resonant frequencies it's made in every high school physics textbook ever published since.

hit my science book in middle school, but then in high school they stopped offering physics, yay for me

[methods4]

This only applies to tuners with Dynos (Vishnu, Gruppe-S, Fftec, EIP, SRM, Dinan, Lingenfelter, Callaway, etc,.) Tuners without dynos (Works, local muffler shop, etc,.) somehow manage to extract special conditional power out of an engine. This power is only available during subjective testing (canyon runs for instance). It is a very clever kind of power. The kind that hides when it is measured objectively. It doesn't like to show off. ;) Amazing what a bunch of engineers can do!

This thread has me in tears. I wuv u guyz.

[leif]

[quote="Jamie@WORKS"]
Other than that, power is power and should be seen on a dyno. Otherwise, it ain't there!

This only applies to tuners with Dynos (Vishnu, Gruppe-S, Fftec, EIP, SRM, Dinan, Lingenfelter, Callaway, etc,.) Tuners without dynos (Works, local muffler shop, etc,.) somehow manage to extract special conditional power out of an engine. This power is only available during subjective testing (canyon runs for instance). It is a very clever kind of power. The kind that hides when it is measured objectively. It doesn't like to show off. ;) Amazing what a bunch of engineers can do!

LOL

power and precision...the works butt dyno! sound more like a john basedown commercial to me.

[vtluu]

Strangely enough, I haven't seen any baseline vs. baseline + WR dyno charts from anybody else either.

You figure that if you were a WR vendor, you'd make a small investment in time to do some real solid testing and get some real data. If the data were favourable then publishing it would likely net you enough WR sales that would easily pay off for the testing you did.

Of course, those who like conspiracy theories might postulate that testing was indeed done, but the results were not favourable and consequently not published, resulting in the current information vaccuum.

[earlyapex]

Strangely enough, I haven't seen any baseline vs. baseline + WR dyno charts from anybody else either.


yea of course, I have seen some from buschur, but mostly from 100 octane + and big boost.

I really never singled out a tuner at all in this thread. Works only came into play after that recockulious comment from Jamie. :wink:

[Evo442]

Strangely enough, I haven't seen any baseline vs. baseline + WR dyno charts from anybody else either.

You figure that if you were a WR vendor, you'd make a small investment in time to do some real solid testing and get some real data. If the data were favourable then publishing it would likely net you enough WR sales that would easily pay off for the testing you did.

Of course, those who like conspiracy theories might postulate that testing was indeed done, but the results were not favourable and consequently not published, resulting in the current information vaccuum.

Or perhaps not everyone wants info on their modded evo's posted in a public venue. I also doubt that Works makes much off of the sale of a WR turbo. (excluding labor costs). Probably not worth their time (financially) to prove a point to some guys on an internet forum. Also, the turbo doesnt produce gaudy peak numbers and will not appeal to a certain subset of the evo crowd anyway. Just my 2 cents.

U got pm, Tam

[Jamie@WORKS]

Strangely enough, I haven't seen any baseline vs. baseline + WR dyno charts from anybody else either.

You figure that if you were a WR vendor, you'd make a small investment in time to do some real solid testing and get some real data. If the data were favourable then publishing it would likely net you enough WR sales that would easily pay off for the testing you did.

Of course, those who like conspiracy theories might postulate that testing was indeed done, but the results were not favourable and consequently not published, resulting in the current information vaccuum.

You would also figure Forced Performance would be the one doing the back-to-back testing and publishing the results. After all it is their turbo. However, I haven't seen this information made public by Robert and crew. FP has been around for a while and they maintain a solid reputation. If the turbo didn't work, they wouldn't be selling it and neither would we.

Prior to its release, FP had a number of the WR prototypes across the country being tested. WORKS happened to tune one of them. We were pleased with the outcome and have stuck with it.

Like I said, WORKS hasn't done any single-item comparisons with the WR because most of our customers are doing multiple component changes. We're not going to inconvenience them in order to keep a couple of keyboard warriors happy. If someone wants to willingly participate in doing so, we'll be more than happy to accommodate.

[MitsuMan]

:stupido: all this talk about a turbo from a company that doesn't dyno tune they just repeat what others say.
ANYWAYS so I take it nobody out there is running the 20G ix or TME? huh?
well when I get off my ass and put the 20G I have sitting in my back seat in and get it tuned, then I'll have something to talk about. But I do know this , Shiv says that he hasn't seen a big difference between the IX and the 20GIX. but he also said I wouldn't be happy with a WR and I listen to my tuner

[earlyapex]

Probably not worth their time (financially) to prove a point to some guys on an internet forum. Also, the turbo doesnt produce gaudy peak numbers and will not appeal to a certain subset of the evo crowd anyway.

Holy christ in hell, for the millionth time we aren't talking about peak numbers!

We are talking about power bands, power curves, whatever the hell you want to call them. It's what makes cars more powerful than other cars.


We're not going to inconvenience them in order to keep a couple of keyboard warriors happy.

GGLC @ Buttonwillow May 18th
TEAM @ Buttonwillow May 26th

I'll be at both, see you there?

I'll even put my keyboard in my rear window so you can see it when I pass you :wink:

[Evo442]

Probably not worth their time (financially) to prove a point to some guys on an internet forum. Also, the turbo doesnt produce gaudy peak numbers and will not appeal to a certain subset of the evo crowd anyway.

Holy christ in hell, for the millionth time we aren't talking about peak numbers!



Ah! Now I get it! (whacks forehead with hand). :D

[Evo442]

We are talking about power bands, power curves, whatever the hell you want to call them. It's what makes cars more powerful than other cars.



I appreciate the clarification, and understand the concept. But while HP and Torque curves (my preferred terms) may be what makes one car more powerful than another, peak HP is what sells car parts. So, I dont know if financially its worth Works' time to put a lot of time/money into this.

[Evo442]

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/modules.php?set_albumName=album89&id=evocurves&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Take the info for what its worth.

One plot is with Works TR340 and a HFC. The other is after addition of WR and Works 02 housing.

Same car. 2 different mustang dynos in 2 different cities with 2 different operators, one year apart.

Oh yeah - the higher numbers are after the addition of the WR. :D

sorry, no scanner.

[earlyapex]

But while HP and Torque curves (my preferred terms) may be what makes one car more powerful than another, its my premise that peak HP is what sells car parts. Again, might not be worth Work's time.

Wait wait wait. But that's been the Pro-WR peoples argument the whole time, that the WR doesn't produce higher peak numbers but excels in other areas of the curve.

Why is this thing getting so twisted and convoluted?

So the WR doesn't produce higher peak HP, which according to you won't sell it, and I have yet to see dyno charts showing more HP and Torque under the curve. So basically why do people buy this turbo? Marketing hype?

[dohcvtec]

So basically why do people buy this turbo? Marketing hype?
yes

[earlyapex]

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/modules.php?set_albumName=album89&id=evocurves&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Take the info for what its worth.

One plot is with Works TR340 and a HFC. The other is after addition of WR and Works 02 housing.

Same car. 2 different mustang dynos in 2 different cities with 2 different operators, one year apart.

Oh yeah - the higher numbers are after the addition of the WR. :D

sorry, no scanner.

Same curves and numbers I have seen from stock 10.5 hotside turbos with stock 02 housings. In fact, the 10.5 stock turbos can have a better torque curve before 5200 and can hit peak torque almost 1,000 rpm sooner.

Your chart before the WR actually had a better torque curve, although approx 35wtq less.

Again, all different dynos like you said so it doesn't really tell us much.

[Stormtrooper]

this is a pointless argument.

bottomline is that the WR is unproven by itself on pump gas without any real evidence or data, but FP has also noted that in order to take full advantage of this turbo, higher boost and better gas is needed in order to see the real difference from the stock turbo.

With most of us tuning for 91 octane, I really don't see the the limits and full advantages of the WR being realized.

all i know is that with my WR on 91, it's definitely not WORSE than stock, and now with some more tuning and boost adjustment the car is definitely making a lot more power.... whether or not that has to do with the WR itself, no way to tell, so no point in me arguing about it.

Would i do the upgrade again for that money? In hindsight, if i started over, i would probably have spent the money on brake upgrades and more track days but lets just say there's aren't any real regrets and i'm not going to take it off and go back to stock anytime soon.

Maybe I'll try some meth/alky injection, higher boost, and better gas and see what the WR can do later, but my power level is already more than good enough for my skill level on track =D

[Jamie@WORKS]

this is a pointless argument.

bottomline is that the WR is unproven by itself on pump gas without any real evidence or data, but FP has also noted that in order to take full advantage of this turbo, higher boost and better gas is needed in order to see the real difference from the stock turbo.

With most of us tuning for 91 octane, I really don't see the the limits and full advantages of the WR being realized.

all i know is that with my WR on 91, it's definitely not WORSE than stock, and now with some more tuning and boost adjustment the car is definitely making a lot more power.... whether or not that has to do with the WR itself, no way to tell, so no point in me arguing about it.

Would i do the upgrade again for that money? In hindsight, if i started over, i would probably have spent the money on brake upgrades and more track days but lets just say there's aren't any real regrets and i'm not going to take it off and go back to stock anytime soon.

Maybe I'll try some meth/alky injection, higher boost, and better gas and see what the WR can do later, but my power level is already more than good enough for my skill level on track =D

Amen... All I can say is that my EVO with the White Rabbit Upgrade (read: rebuilt OEM 9.8 housing inconel turbo w/ the WR compressor wheel) feels much better to me than the stock unit. I lost nothing in spool and there are gains in mid to upper RPMs according to me.

WORKS can also state that every single WR install we've done has resulted in positive feedback from the customer (wether we sold it to them or not).

There's a WR vs. TME comparison dyno on FP's site (http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTEVO8WR&Category_Code=Lancer_Turbo) along with some positive reviews by people/shops you may be familiar with--RRE, Switzer, etc... Take it for what you will.

[earlyapex]

I don't see how this is a pointless argument.

The original poster asked what turbo upgrade would give gains over what he currently has, which is a 10.5 hotside and helix 02 housing.

TME will give him a gain in spool. WR will not and that has been proven time and time again on dyno charts. WR's spool later than even the stock turbo, which makes sense, the wheel is bigger and not matched as well.

IX turbo, the verdict is still out. Just not enough IX turbos swapped into EVO 8's to give a good answer.

Jamie you can say what you want about butt dynos, but the fact is, it is 100% unprecise which goes against what your little WORKS sig file states.

Who wants to go to the mall and do the Pepsi taste challenge?

[trinydex]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=184756&page=2&pp=15

i'm at least slightly convinced by this....

[SJCoruja]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=184756&page=2&pp=15

i'm at least slightly convinced by this....

Now THAT sounds like one amazing car! :D

[earlyapex]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=184756&page=2&pp=15

i'm at least slightly convinced by this....

Ah yes, I forgot about that thread, here is my post reposted here for some reference:

WARNING!!! ACTUAL TEST DATA FROM A DYNO BELOW.
------------------------------------------------

More data:

Base is my car (mods in sig, stock 05 turbo)

Test is the 03 evo with an IX Turbo / 264-272 cams /cam gears / ebay 02 housing / 3" downpipe / exhaust / Works high flow cat / 720cc injectors / walbro pump / ecutek / MBC

http://www.norcalmotorsports.org/users/bryan/mods/EVO/dyno/CBstockturbo_vs_IXturboon8.JPG

Keep in mind:

1. The IX turbo equipped 03 EVO has a HFC while my car has a testpipe

2. The IX turbo equipped 03 EVO has 264/272 cams while my car has 272/272 cams

3. The IX turbo equipped 03 EVO has cam gears set at 0/0 ( I gained 11whp peak tweaking my cam gears)

This IX turbo equipped 03 EVO is making great power for it's mods. I really believe that it can make an additional 15-20 whp with a test pipe and cam gear tweaks.

yes this isn't a perfect apples to oranges comparison but it is more data, everyone likes data don't they?

A great test would be for me to swap my stock 05 turbo for an IX turbo. Not sure if that is going to happen though. :)

[vtluu]

I'll probably get the Evo tuned for the '03 turbo setup, install the TME and tune it again, if anybody's interested.

The TME won't be the only change; also going in will be ported and coated hotside and exhaust manifold. So unfortunately it won't be a "+TME-only" comparison, but figure the other bits won't contribute a huge difference...

[trinydex]

no more tme... i think the shivnu crowd has enough info on that... please test the tme9

[vtluu]

no more tme... i think the shivnu crowd has enough info on that... please test the tme9
TME's all I've got. If you give me a TME9, I'll happy test it. :nana:

Anyway I'd trust the Shivnu crowd about as far as I can throw it.

[Evo442]

But while HP and Torque curves (my preferred terms) may be what makes one car more powerful than another, its my premise that peak HP is what sells car parts. Again, might not be worth Work's time.

Wait wait wait. But that's been the Pro-WR peoples argument the whole time, that the WR doesn't produce higher peak numbers but excels in other areas of the curve.

Why is this thing getting so twisted and convoluted?

So the WR doesn't produce higher peak HP, which according to you won't sell it, and I have yet to see dyno charts showing more HP and Torque under the curve. So basically why do people buy this turbo? Marketing hype?

Ok, so this is largely academic and a waste of time, but for clarification, its not that the WR doesnt' produce higher peak numbers, its just that the peak gains are not huge. It is my opinion that it produces more power throughout the powerband, w/o losing power anywhere, thats all.

For those who have TME's and like them, great! For those who have WR's and like them, great! For those happy w/o them, great!

For anyone thinking of buying one of the above... ummm.. good luck?? :D

[dohcvtec]

no more tme... i think the shivnu crowd has enough info on that... please test the tme9
TME's all I've got. If you give me a TME9, I'll happy test it. :nana:

Anyway I'd trust the Shivnu crowd about as far as I can throw it.
But you trust WORKS? :?

[vtluu]

But you trust WORKS? :?

With all due respect Jamie, I don't trust the butt dyno, mine or anybody else's. You made a testable claim: that the WR should make a broader power band. That's something that should be measurable on a chassis or road dyno. Surely someone must have such measurements to support those claims?

[Jamie@WORKS]

Whether or not you see it on a piece of paper is moot? Are you kidding?
I guess I should have emphasized “you” in this statement.* So, I’ll do it now.* You have a negative impression of the WR and, as you have shown time and again, there’s nothing that I can do to change that.* Even if I were to provide you with every conceivable piece of empirical data that shows an overall positive gain from the turbo, you would misinterpret the results and spin it to where it would appear to be a negative.* You have done so with David’s dyno sheets—focusing on the area that supports your claim.* Let’s not forget his disclaimer that the two were done under hugely varying circumstances and cannot be compared directly with one another.* Your “same curves and numbers…” statement is completely invalid unless every other variable was the same as well.* A noteworthy variable (the dyno) isn’t even mentioned.* So all other comparisons can’t be assessed.*

I’ve seen modified EVOs put down numbers lower than stock EVOs—albeit different dynos.* Based on your methodology, an EVO shouldn’t be modified because it will be slower.* I have a customer’s dyno sheets with fewer modifications to his ’05 EVO than yours, yet peak numbers are nearly the same--both were on Mustang dynos.* Does that mean his EVO is just as quick without cams?* Using your logic, it must be because the pieces of paper say so.

Dynos, when used correctly, can provide some insight, but they are by no means the end all be all test—indeed they can be misconstrued into a “smoke and mirrors” routine.* Whether it’s improper calibration, erroneous input, etc… they can be manipulated (intentional or not).* Just because we don’t have one here at the shop doesn’t mean we don’t use nor know the ins and outs of them.

This argument is pointless (see paragraph one).* The original author asked for our opinions on the turbos.* I gave my first-hand viewpoint of my WR impressions.* You interjected with regurgitated internet “facts.”* Do you have any first-hand knowledge of any of these turbos?* Do you have documented proof that the WR is making less power (peak or otherwise) than the stock turbo?* On 91 octane?* On the same dyno?* On the same day?* Under the same conditions?* With no other variables?

As I try to express to all of our customers, the White Rabbit was geared towards slightly increased boost levels—which involves increased octane.* However, there are gains to be had on pump gas with “stock” boost.*

As mentioned, the larger compressor wheel does increase lag/spool, but it also increases air flow.* The TiAl version uses the lighter components to help combat the lag/spool issue, but it comes at a premium.* I don’t have this version and use the OEM Inconel materials in my WR Upgrade.* I also retained the smaller 9.8 cm2 housing to help aid in lag/spool even if it meant giving up a little high RPM power.* This combination has retained my original spool (20 PSI at 3000 RPMs), but I did notice an increase in lag (WOT above 3000 RPMs).* I do not have any “documentation” of this other than my own two eyes.* Overall, I am pleased with the turbo as it fits my needs and would do it all again given the circumstances.* Don’t take this as WORKS marketing, but an unbiased review of a Forced Performance product from a Forced Performance customer—after all I paid for the damn thing :)

[earlyapex]

A noteworthy variable (the dyno) isn’t even mentioned.* So all other comparisons can’t be assessed.*



Again, all different dynos like you said so it doesn't really tell us much.


I'm done trying to cut through the bullshit so other people don't have to waste their money. Spend away.

[SpeedElement]

Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

Teh Saga continues... ;)

[earlyapex]

Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

Teh Saga continues... ;)


Now that I can't wait to see.

[vtluu]

So after all is said and done, all that we really know, is that we don't really know anything. :lol:

[trinydex]

Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

Teh Saga continues... ;)
tme9?

[GokuSSJ4]

Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

Teh Saga continues... ;)

i will try to viii 10.5 vs IX set up ... see what gains can be achieve with more aggressive cams. from what i have read and understand , the Ix turbo should show near 20whp over the viii 05 set up. we shall see

[leaveit2bevo]

hasent somebody already tested the jdm IX with the mag wheel?

[Jamie@WORKS]

Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

Teh Saga continues... ;)
tme9?


Another hybrid: 10.5 dual flapper hotside, TiAl exducer/shaft, OEM IX compressor/housing.

Feedback from across both oceans is that the Mg IX doesn't like big boost and will let you know the hard way.

[earlyapex]

Another hybrid:* 10.5 dual flapper hotside, TiAl exducer/shaft, OEM IX compressor/housing.



Wouldn't that be a TME 9 that was already mentioned above? :?



Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.

[Jamie@WORKS]

Another hybrid: 10.5 dual flapper hotside, TiAl exducer/shaft, OEM IX compressor/housing.



Wouldn't that be a TME 9 that was already mentioned above? :?



Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.




I was replying to trinydex. I took his question mark as being that he didn't know what the TME9 was. (Upon further review, that may not be the case.) My response was an "answer" to his "question" which is why I quoted his post.

Maybe I should PM you all of my posts beforehand so you can proofread them :?

[trinydex]

Another hybrid: 10.5 dual flapper hotside, TiAl exducer/shaft, OEM IX compressor/housing.



Wouldn't that be a TME 9 that was already mentioned above? :?



Up Next, EVO IX 16g w/ TME setup.


it's catchin' on earlyapex! just remember who thot of it first!

[earlyapex]

I was replying to trinydex.* I took his question mark as being that he didn't know what the TME9 was.* (Upon further review, that may not be the case.)* My response was an "answer" to his "question" which is why I quoted his post.

Maybe I should PM you all of my posts beforehand so you can proofread them :?


Jamie, no you don't have to PM me, however you should know what all us "keyboard racers" like Trinydex and I are thinking at all times and edit your responses accordingly. Tia. ;)

[trinydex]

darn all those not thinking! altho norcal is pretty good about it...

[rodw]

Anyone tried the EVO IX Turbocharger w/ Ti/Al turbine(TME setup)?

[trinydex]

yeah apparently robert at fp has. it's good for the regular 100-200 rpm of spool on top of the 9 turbo's fast spooling. but it costs about 400 bucks more :[

so it depends on if its worth it for you