OpenECU is so fresh!

[EFIxMR]

Just took out my bling bling ECU and put back my stocker custom flashed with OpenECU. Like everyone else who's said it... This is the future :D

Over priced flashers your time is numbered.

[wilson1]

How does it work?

[EFIxMR]

its really simple to use. its basically a cable the connects to the obd2 port and another small connector on the side, it interfaces with OpenECU software you DL online (free), and just starting tuning away.

[Matz]

Just took out my bling bling ECU and put back my stocker custom flashed with OpenECU. Like everyone else who's said it... This is the future :D

Over priced flashers your time is numbered.


Only if the general public learns how to tune. I have the ECUFlash, but you won't find me doing any tuning on my Evo until:

1. I take a tuning class like EFI101
2. I am sitting with someone who knows what's up, like you or earlyapex
3. I have $5k saved up for a stroker to replace my grenaded engine

:) I'm glad that you said it's awesome and have already custom flashed your stock ECU. That's a great sign!

[Matz]

its really simple to use. its basically a cable the connects to the obd2 port and another small connector on the side, it interfaces with OpenECU software you DL online (free), and just starting tuning away.


Wilson, when I get my ECU+ modified to allow usage of the ECUFlash, I'll post up a video of what the package looks like when downloading stock maps, etc.

[EFIxMR]

Yes, for sure if you aren't familiar with tuning becareful. you want this pandora's box full of happy things not sad ones.

[earlyapex]

you want this pandora's box full of happy things not sad ones.


AHha, that's almost sig worthy. ;)

[EFIxMR]

bryan,

you gotta get your laptop fixed so you can try this thing. you'll love it.

i think this is the best $90 i've spent in a long while.

my initial impressions so far, as you can probably tell are very positive. the stock ECU is idling my cosworth m2 high lift 11.00mm cams like a champ, and this is without any cam gear manipulation as both are set to "0" "0".

The bling bling ECU (speed density) does do a markedly better job in taming the lumpiness of the exhaust tone, but nevertheless the stock ecu does an acceptable job. The idle is rock solid at 950-1000 rpm but the exhaust notes resemble an R1 motorcycle. The bling bling ECU's exhaust tone is far more steady.

One of the things I hated worse about the stock ecu programming was the boost cut, which always interupted my fun in the higher gears at night, turning down the boost and going slower in the lower gears was the only answer... Now it was simply a matter of going into OpenECU and changing the limits... presto... a 2 min fix... probably took me longer to connect the cord under the dash than to fix this irritating problem which has been plaguing me since I started modding the car.

I have some experience with techtom (i actually owned one for awhile now and paid a stupid amount money for it), and after spending just a little bit of time with the OpenECU, plain and simple, techtom is obsolete. No comparison whatsoever. Funny thing is I'm not even sad, I think this is what everyone's been waiting a long time for.

The software still lacks real time programming and datalogging which the bling bling ECU excels at, but this thing was under $100 vs the bling bling ECU which travels far enough into the 4 digit price range. I still can't say a standalone is obsolete as it still has its place, but for 90% of everyone out there this fits the bill perfectly.

I just hope they made enough cables to meet demand...

I know tomorrow I'm buying another one 8)

[earlyapex]

bryan,

you gotta get your laptop fixed so you can try this thing. you'll love it.



Oh trust me I've been messing with it via my windows desktop machine. ;)

[turbotiger]

Ok, so where's the best place to learn how to use openecu?

[EFIxMR]

ill post up some pics tomorrow on how to get started

[chrisw]

ill post up some pics tomorrow on how to get started


that would be awesome. I have been messing around with the Xede. Nice peice of hardware, the datalogging is enough to get the job done. I have been looking at openEcu, I can't wait to start messing with it.

[Matz]

NCE Meet #15 at a dyno w/ EFIxMR and CB Tuning for OpenECU tutorials, baby. :wink: :wink:

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/cable.jpg

Here's a picture of the ECUFLASH cable.

One end is usb which goes into your computer, and at the other end the big black plug goes into your obd2 port, the little white plug next to it goes into the small port right beside the obd2 port.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/port.jpg

This is your target of interest right here. plugging the cable into the ports mentioned above give you access to the stock ECU. These ports are located on your right hand side under the driver dash, if you've looked under your dash before you might have easily missed it before, but now with ECUFLASH this is going to be your new best friend.

More to come later when i get home. Super tired :P

[EFIxMR]

Before actually connecting to your car and DL its rom, you should familiarize yourself with the ECUFlash program and how efi systems work in general. First DL ECUFlash from OpenECU.org and purchase an OpenECU cable.

Next you download the 05' EVO Rom here below and save it to your desktop. We will use this as a demo in this tutorial.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/EVO8%20JM9693.hex

To open up the rom run the ECUFlash program and click the folder button as shown in the following picture.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/openfile.JPG
http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/openfile.JPG
a pop up screen will follow and direct it to the desktop where you saved the 05' EVO rom.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/metatables.JPG
http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/metatables.JPG

load that rom and the metatables will appear. these are preconfigured "definitions" (memory addresses used to control various parameters). The red arrow is pointing to the fuel map parameters, clicking the boxes will bring them up. We are going to learn about the fuel map first.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/fuelmap.JPG
http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/fuelmap.JPG

This is the high octane fuel map. The fuel map is a 3d table with rpm on the Y axis and load on the X axis. The computer references the fuel map table under open loop (no o2 sensor feedback) conditions. This table tells the ECU how much fuel to add under what conditions as a function of rpm and load.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/indexed.jpg
http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/indexed.jpg

The X axis is easy enough to understand it is simply RPM. The load however is just lightly more complicated. It is quantified in the metric system in kilopascals (kpa). 100 kpa is 0 vacuum. 200 kpa or 1 bar of boost is ~14.7 psi. Anything below 100 kpa is vacuum.

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/fuel%20path.JPG
http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/fuel%20path.JPG


Under light cruise conditions the computer references the yellow region on conjunction with the 02 sensor long and short term fuel trims. i.e., Freeway driving.

The green path is an imaginary overlay running clockwise of your engine traveling under light acceleration. Lets say leaving a stop light, ect.

The black path is an imaginary overlay running clockwise of your engine under WOT. For example, when you are being a ricer and want to hear your exhaust scream :P

By changing the numbers inside the fuel map either up or down you affect the engines a/f ratio.

More on that in our next installment.

[vtluu]

The load however is just lightly more complicated. It is quantified in the metric system in kilopascals (kpa). 100 kpa is 0 vacuum. 200 kpa or 1 bar of boost is ~14.7 psi. Anything below 100 kpa is vacuum.
Thanks, great info! :bow: I was wondering about that, the "load" axis was labeled "%" and I was wondering, "250%, WTF does that mean?".

Keep 'em coming!

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/editing.jpg

Now that you are a little bit familiar with how the fuel map goes. Let's talk about edititing the fuel table. By clicking the edit button (red arrow) you can manipulate any highlighted cell or cells (green arrow). This works much like an excel table.

That much is simple enough. However, the numbers in the fuel table are a bit more tricky. These correspond to the target a/f ratio you want, but only for a stock car. Once a vehicle has been modified this a/f targets are off, and these numbers just become data which you move up and down to achieve your target a/f measured by a high accuracy wideband.

The tricky part is bigger numbers = leaner, smaller numbers = richer

This differs from traditional EFI systems that control injector pulse width directly.

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/dual%20fuel%20maps.jpg

Click the low octane and high octane map in the metatables as indicated by the red arrows. This will bring up the screen above.

As you might already know the EVO ecu has dual fuel maps. Which map the ECU runs on depends on knock sensor activity. When knock sensor activity reaches a predetermined threshold, the ECU looks up the low octane map to protect the engine. The low octane map is set richer than the high octane map in efforts to mitigate what the ECU detects as knock. When knock activity has decreased the ECU reverts back to the high octane map which is leaner for more performance.

You've likely see the effects of this when you dynoed your car and had a dip in your tq curve. The ECU sensed what it thought to be knock thru the knock sensor and richened the mixture to protect your engine accordingly.

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/timing%20maps.jpg

Editing the timing table is much the same as editing to fuel table. The numbers in the timing map correspond to at what degrees of crank shaft rotation to fire the spark plug. These are measured in degrees before top dead center (BTDC).

Again like the dual fuel maps, the evo has dual ignition maps for both high and low knock sensor activity. This is again to protect your engine. When high knock activity is detected the ECU retards ignition timing by reading the low octane map. Once knock level activity has ceased to a predetermined threshold by the ECU it reverts back to the high octane map with advanced timing for more power.

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/limits.jpg

To conclude our beginner tutorial of EcuFlash for the EVO, we will look at the limiting systems built into the ECU.

Click Speed Limit, Stationary Rev Limit, Rev Limit, and Boost Limit in the metatables to bring up the screen above.

The speed limit is the vss governor

Stationary rev limit is mitsubishi's way of keeping our trannies together, but now that its under our control its the newest member of the EVO bowling league.

Primary rev limiter is self explanitory, it keeps you from reving your engine out like you did on your old integra gsr for good reason, it doesn't need to rev that high.

Boost limit is the dreaded boost cut we periodically run into at night on the freeway... The first time I bumped into it, I thought I blew up my motor, thru time I just learned to ignore it... But now i can set it as crazy as I want! :P

So everyone... be sure to find your favorite vendor and pick up a wide band with some sort of logging capability before you even think of attempting to modify your engine's fuel injection maps.

Modify at your own risk, there's still tons of stuff out there to know, this is just the tip of the iceberg but I hope I've accelerated your path into getting more enjoyment from your car by freeing your ECU!

[EvoKid]

I can't wait for a full review and tutorial. Also, since Vishnu hasn't made a harness for the Xede in the IX, I might be using OpenECU very soon.

Also, I've seen screenshots and read all the thread on EvoM & NCE, but I want to know how hard it is to tune compared to say, an Xede. I have tuned my Xede on the VIII and I also have the Zietronix W/ boost sensor and knock buffer. Anyways, I guess my question is with my Xede knowledge and Zeitronix system, should I be fine with tuning myself.

*I know tuning can lead to catistrofic (sp) engine failure.

[EvoKid]

Also, EFIxMR, is the IX rom a lot more complicated, having MIVEC and 6 ignition table (i think thats how many)???

[EFIxMR]

The EVO9 rom is indeed more complicated. It however isn't in any way as complicated as tuning IVTEC on the kseries engine using hondata kpro.

As soon as the EVO9 ECUflash is functional we will flash our EVO9 RS.

As far as using ECUflash on the EVO8, I think it is really easy, but that's because I'm used to writing maps from scratch and configuring sensors also from scratch on standalones for cars that were never even meant to be turbocharged.

Having full access to the stock evo map makes everything really easy.

The game will get a lot more complicated once you change injectors or go big turbo.

[earlyapex]

The game will get a lot more complicated once you change injectors or go big turbo.


Yea I can't wait to start messing with injector compensation for my 720 injectors. Lots of logging will happen. :lol:

Btw, I found out ECUFlash won't even run on a Win98 machine, the DLL error I was getting wasn't because I was missing it, but it wasn't the right version. Win2K+ only.

Guess it's time to get a newer windows laptop! :-X

[EVO GRIM]

Nice write up. I smell a sticky.

[EFIxMR]

Yea I can't wait to start messing with injector compensation for my 720 injectors. Lots of logging will happen. :lol:

Btw, I found out ECUFlash won't even run on a Win98 machine, the DLL error I was getting wasn't because I was missing it, but it wasn't the right version. Win2K+ only.

Guess it's time to get a newer windows laptop! :-X


With a newer computer maybe you can be a faster keyboard racer :D :P

I think your ECU+ for datalogging and ECUflash are going to be an awesome combo.

[EFIxMR]

http://www.speedelement.com/images/openecu/save.JPG

When saving a file, the program doesn't automatically append the file type to the end of the save file, so if you don't type .hex or .bin to the end of the file you wont be able to see your saved rom when you try and open it up with ECUflash.

So be sure to add .hex or .bin!

[Evo442]

So does OpenECU actually read the maps that are already present in my ecu? I'm flashed with a P2 flash and would like to learn to tweak things a little bit, but dont want to re-invent the wheel and start from scratch trying to tune the car from a stock map. (as if I would have the knowlege or skill to do so anyway)

[EFIxMR]

Yes, openecu can dl the rom off any ecu except for ecutek.

For anyone interested in this technology visit our shop and I can give you a real life demo of how its done.

Thanks,

[earlyapex]

So does OpenECU actually read the maps that are already present in my ecu? I'm flashed with a P2 flash and would like to learn to tweak things a little bit, but dont want to re-invent the wheel and start from scratch trying to tune the car from a stock map. (as if I would have the knowlege or skill to do so anyway)


If it's a techtom flash then yes. Please be careful about posting the maps though. Even if I do disagree with certain people, their intellectual property is theirs unless they agree on sharing it. ;)

[Matz]

Great stuff, Andy! I'll read it in more detail later. FYI, Windows Media Encoder (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx) FTW. That would make your tutorial even more kick-ass.

[wilson1]

Wow, Andy!
I thought you were kidding when you say you are SHOWING everyone how to tune. :D

NCE Folks really do appreciate your experience and sharing it with our evo community.

YOUR ROCK!
8)

Btw GUYS , this is FYI, don't try this at home without professional help, or blown engine can be the final result!

[EFIxMR]

If it's a techtom flash then yes. Please be careful about posting the maps though. Even if I do disagree with certain people, their intellectual property is theirs unless they agree on sharing it. ;)


I think people trying to claim intellectual property on roms are insane. I've been tuning efi systems since 98' and im sure my tunes have been passed around and used as base maps for other cars, and frankly I have no problem with that because I know its something I cannot control.

I use various tuning softwares that have the capability of encrypting the file so it locks the owner out of their own car, but I never do it, because it is their car and they have the real "right" to take their car to whomever they wish to tune or modify after I'm dont with their car. They have already paid me for my time and shouldn't be "married" to me as a tuner.

At what point does the rom really cease to be "xyz's" tune? How many KBytes need to be different?

With that said I don't find anyone's tuning to be particularily impressive to where I would want to copy them or use their rom. Every car is different, and that's why every car I tune has a unique profile tailored to fit. Putting a generic rom in your car usually end with a generic result.

[earlyapex]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.

[Matz]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.



hehe... yeah, I was surprised that he posted the maps. I didn't personally see them, so maybe you can tell us what was really interesting about it. :)

[earlyapex]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.



hehe... yeah, I was surprised that he posted the maps. I didn't personally see them, so maybe you can tell us what was really interesting about it. :)


His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:

[Matz]

His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Well, I guess that's better than throwing darts.

Slightly OT, but I can't wait for this Sony "laptop" (http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/05/more_sony_ux_pi.html) to come out so we can all tune from our gloveboxes!

[wilson1]

When is that sony coming out?

[Lurk]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.



hehe... yeah, I was surprised that he posted the maps. I didn't personally see them, so maybe you can tell us what was really interesting about it. :)


His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Just say "NO" to DynoFlush. :)

[EuGeNiLe]

How much were people charging per flash in the early days?

[Evo442]

So does OpenECU actually read the maps that are already present in my ecu? I'm flashed with a P2 flash and would like to learn to tweak things a little bit, but dont want to re-invent the wheel and start from scratch trying to tune the car from a stock map. (as if I would have the knowlege or skill to do so anyway)


If it's a techtom flash then yes. Please be careful about posting the maps though. Even if I do disagree with certain people, their intellectual property is theirs unless they agree on sharing it. ;)


I agree. I have no intention of "sharing" someone elses work, I would like to be able to tweak what I already paid plenty of money for. I'd also like to be able to use the P2 flash as a base map and create a high octane map for the track.

[chrisw]

His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Well, I guess that's better than throwing darts.

Slightly OT, but I can't wait for this Sony "laptop" (http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/05/more_sony_ux_pi.html) to come out so we can all tune from our gloveboxes!


don't need to wait for the sony, there is already another in production. Still looking for the link.

[ek9_evo9]

His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Well, I guess that's better than throwing darts.

Slightly OT, but I can't wait for this Sony "laptop" (http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/05/more_sony_ux_pi.html) to come out so we can all tune from our gloveboxes!


don't need to wait for the sony, there is already another in production. Still looking for the link.


Thanks andy for the good information.* BTW sony usually tends to open their mouth way before releasing products that fall through, nice device though.* So when can we expect OpenECU Tuning 101 by Bryan and Andy to be available 8)

[Matz]

His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Well, I guess that's better than throwing darts.

Slightly OT, but I can't wait for this Sony "laptop" (http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/05/more_sony_ux_pi.html) to come out so we can all tune from our gloveboxes!


don't need to wait for the sony, there is already another in production. Still looking for the link.


I think you're talking about that super thin one... oxo, xo, or something like that?

EDIT -- ah, it's OQO... are you talking about this one (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/)?

[chrisw]

His uhm... way of scaling injectors and his low octane map was looking at the high octane map in the mirror. :shock: :lol:


Well, I guess that's better than throwing darts.

Slightly OT, but I can't wait for this Sony "laptop" (http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2006/05/more_sony_ux_pi.html) to come out so we can all tune from our gloveboxes!


don't need to wait for the sony, there is already another in production. Still looking for the link.


I think you're talking about that super thin one... oxo, xo, or something like that?


yeah, I think that's it. It's made locally :cool:, I should have the link at work.

[Matz]

yeah, I think that's it. It's made locally :cool:, I should have the link at work.


This one! (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/)

After doing some research, the Flybook (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/) also looks like an interesting option for in-car tuning. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to get the US, so perhaps the Fujitsu Lifebook P series (http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/PrdBridge.jsp?pclass=P) is the best option. But that laptop is darn expensive, so there's always the Dell Latitude X1, or the IBM Thinkpad X60. :) Choices, choices...

[zyounker]

Anyone have the source to openecu? It looks like a GPL project from the site, but they don't have a link to the source..


Since it is written in GDK/QT it could be ported. Then put it on a touchscreen SBC and mount it in my car :P (no interest in running windows.)


Maybe wireless keyboard for when i have to time.

[vtluu]

Since it is written in GDK/QT it could be ported. Then put it on a touchscreen SBC and mount it in my car :P (no interest in running windows.)

Hey Zach, I hear there's this software you can use to run Windows on your Linux machine. What's it called, "VMware" I think? :nana:

[zyounker]

hahaha VMWare? What's that? :D BTW you probably didn't notice since we worked in different buildings, but i no longer work there... I quit a month ago. :D

Anyway..if anyone sees the source/has the source to this i would be interested in it. (I plan on keeping my eyes out for it as well) I'll post it up if i get a hold of it.


BTW what is with their website? lots of broken links and junk.

[chrisw]

yeah, I think that's it. It's made locally :cool:, I should have the link at work.


This one! (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/)

After doing some research, the Flybook (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/) also looks like an interesting option for in-car tuning. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to get the US, so perhaps the Fujitsu Lifebook P series (http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/PrdBridge.jsp?pclass=P) is the best option. But that laptop is darn expensive, so there's always the Dell Latitude X1, or the IBM Thinkpad X60. :) Choices, choices...


http://www.mp3car.com

why even use a laptop?

[KevOVIII]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.



hehe... yeah, I was surprised that he posted the maps. I didn't personally see them, so maybe you can tell us what was really interesting about it. :)


:shock:

http://home.comcast.net/~y2kevse/images/OpenECU/injector_scaling1.gif
http://home.comcast.net/~y2kevse/images/OpenECU/injector_scaling2.gif

I also confirmed that peak timing was between 15 and 17 degrees even with meth.* :shock: No wonder why hp and tq was lower than "normal."

[KevOVIII]

Nice job on the write up, Andy.

[KitW]

I can't wait to play with this...

[300kpa]

I also confirmed that peak timing was between 15 and 17 degrees even with meth.?:shock: No wonder why hp and tq was lower than "normal."


What size of injectors are you running? *I am wondering why "the tuner" rescaled your injector to approx. 14% leaner. *I can not be sure, but rescaling the injector this way will only work for open loop fuel. *Under close loop condition, the ECu will try to hit the targe AFR that you specified in the table, which is 16.8!!!* :shock:

[earlyapex]

I also confirmed that peak timing was between 15 and 17 degrees even with meth.?:shock: No wonder why hp and tq was lower than "normal."


What size of injectors are you running? *I am wondering why "the tuner" rescaled your injector to approx. 14% leaner. *I can not be sure, but rescaling the injector this way will only work for open loop fuel. *Under close loop condition, the ECu will try to hit the targe AFR that you specified in the table, which is 16.8!!!* :shock:


I believe he is running 720cc injectors.

[Matz]

Hey Zach, I hear there's this software you can use to run Windows on your Linux machine. What's it called, "VMware" I think? :nana:


You gonna run VMWare on an SBC? No thanks.

[turbotiger]

Great write-up about the very basics of openecu. Now it's left me wanting to learn more.

Are we able to control the ecu induced boost drop-off as well? I think I see it, but I'm not sure.

[Matz]

I believe he is running 720cc injectors.


So did anyone conclude that we can just enter a ballpark number for the size of the injectors (since 513 is used for 550cc stock injectors), and then it'll magically almost work? I'd really like to get my 720ccs in this weekend if possible...

[earlyapex]

I believe he is running 720cc injectors.


So did anyone conclude that we can just enter a ballpark number for the size of the injectors (since 513 is used for 550cc stock injectors), and then it'll magically almost work?* I'd really like to get my 720ccs in this weekend if possible...


It's usually 90% of whatever the injector size is. Every maker is different though. I'll know more once I get to fiddling with my setup.

You also have to fiddle with dead time, etc

[300kpa]

It's usually 90% of whatever the injector size is. Every maker is different though. I'll know more once I get to fiddling with my setup.

You also have to fiddle with dead time, etc



Yes, factory do that in purpose to compensate for the injector flow discrepency. Even same manufacturer same model may come out differently, that's why places like RC engineering blue print their injectors as a set. Whatever the actual flow rate is, the ECU close loop can make proper adjustments as long as the injector scaling setting is close enough.

[zyounker]

Hey Zach, I hear there's this software you can use to run Windows on your Linux machine. What's it called, "VMware" I think? :nana:


You gonna run VMWare on an SBC? No thanks.


No.. I worked for VMWare.. it was a little joke because i didnt want to run windows, he was hinting i could play around with it in a windows VM.

I was thinking SBC with touchscreen running linux that would have an interface to the ECU and wireless keyboard would be a sweet setup.

Similar to the mp3car thing that was posted. but with linux.

[earlyapex]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.

[zyounker]

Yeah, as an example i ran 1680cc or 160lbs injectors as secondaries on my RX7.. but the where balanced and blueprinted at 1460cc and 1461cc


-Zach
.

[Matz]

No.. I worked for VMWare.. it was a little joke because i didnt want to run windows, he was hinting i could play around with it in a windows VM.

I was thinking SBC with touchscreen running linux that would have an interface to the ECU and wireless keyboard would be a sweet setup.

Similar to the mp3car thing that was posted. but with linux.





haha... I understood the joke, I was just telling Tam that I thought his suggestion was stupid. :lol:

[zyounker]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.


I agree ecuplus would not look good. Thats why i want the source.. really i just want to see the protocol they have decoded so far, so i can roll my own.

As for the tunning part, it is all how you display it on the screen. I know my Haltech e6k used a dos program to do its tuning. there were no 3d maps avaliable. So if you display the info correctly, it will look fine. But it would be hard to incorrportate 3d maps in that amount of space, but if done correctly would display fine IMO.

[KevOVIII]

I also confirmed that peak timing was between 15 and 17 degrees even with meth.?:shock: No wonder why hp and tq was lower than "normal."


What size of injectors are you running? I am wondering why "the tuner" rescaled your injector to approx. 14% leaner. I can not be sure, but rescaling the injector this way will only work for open loop fuel. Under close loop condition, the ECu will try to hit the targe AFR that you specified in the table, which is 16.8!!! :shock:


I believe he is running 720cc injectors.


Yup, Helix 720cc.

Yes, the ECU does sit around 16.8-17.0 when the conditions are right. When that happens, I get a P0171 without ECU+ hooked up or P0300 with ECU+ hooked up.

[Matz]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.


I agree ecuplus would not look good. Thats why i want the source.. really i just want to see the protocol they have decoded so far, so i can roll my own.

As for the tunning part, it is all how you display it on the screen. I know my Haltech e6k used a dos program to do its tuning. there were no 3d maps avaliable. So if you display the info correctly, it will look fine. But it would be hard to incorrportate 3d maps in that amount of space, but if done correctly would display fine IMO.


I'm planning on doing something like this, too. I figure that since Colby is using the "direct driver" which just bit bangs, we could easily port this to any embedded processor. I'm going to use a Rabbit 3000 since I have all of the development tools for it.

[zyounker]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.


I agree ecuplus would not look good. Thats why i want the source.. really i just want to see the protocol they have decoded so far, so i can roll my own.

As for the tunning part, it is all how you display it on the screen. I know my Haltech e6k used a dos program to do its tuning. there were no 3d maps avaliable. So if you display the info correctly, it will look fine. But it would be hard to incorrportate 3d maps in that amount of space, but if done correctly would display fine IMO.


I'm planning on doing something like this, too. I figure that since Colby is using the "direct driver" which just bit bangs, we could easily port this to any embedded processor. I'm going to use a Rabbit 3000 since I have all of the development tools for it.



I was planning on finding an x86 system to run this on, but i guess it really doesnt matter.. Why the choice to go to an embedded system? What is the rabbit 3K? is it an ARM, MIPS, or what?


I will be willing to share and show everything i put together, if anyone is interested. Maybe a group project would be good? I am not a programer by trade, so other people that are good programmers would be a good thing ;)

[chrisw]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.


I agree ecuplus would not look good. Thats why i want the source.. really i just want to see the protocol they have decoded so far, so i can roll my own.

As for the tunning part, it is all how you display it on the screen. I know my Haltech e6k used a dos program to do its tuning. there were no 3d maps avaliable. So if you display the info correctly, it will look fine. But it would be hard to incorrportate 3d maps in that amount of space, but if done correctly would display fine IMO.









the actual programming source code is already available. It's a command line interface, but what you are looking for is there.

[zyounker]

I can tell you those map cells would be really hard to see on a 4" screen running 1024x768 like you see on those carPCs.


I agree ecuplus would not look good. Thats why i want the source.. really i just want to see the protocol they have decoded so far, so i can roll my own.

As for the tunning part, it is all how you display it on the screen. I know my Haltech e6k used a dos program to do its tuning. there were no 3d maps avaliable. So if you display the info correctly, it will look fine. But it would be hard to incorrportate 3d maps in that amount of space, but if done correctly would display fine IMO.









the actual programming source code is already available. It's a command line interface, but what you are looking for is there.



It is suppose to be, but go to the site.. yesterday none of the links worked. I have looked. I am sure they will fix it soon, so as soon as they do i will start playing :)

[chrisw]

I can send you the zip file if you want. Not sure of which rev it is, but it will give you a decent start.

It's not too difficult when you think about it. the hardest part is writing the COM driver and figuring out how to write bits to the EPOM memory. The tricky part is mapping the ROM addresses to the timing, fuel, and other important tables that you are looking to manipulate. Aparently this is different for each auto supported and which CPU they implement on the ECU.

the rest (GUI and such) is academic if they have maintained a separation between the GUI and ROM burner portions.

[Matz]

I was planning on finding an x86 system to run this on, but i guess it really doesnt matter.. Why the choice to go to an embedded system? What is the rabbit 3K? is it an ARM, MIPS, or what?

I will be willing to share and show everything i put together, if anyone is interested. Maybe a group project would be good? I am not a programer by trade, so other people that are good programmers would be a good thing ;)


I picked the Rabbit3000 because I am familiar with it, and the core module is cheap in single quantities. I have used several other wimpy 8bit microcontrollers, but have used the Rabbit the most. It's a Z80 variant, but extremely powerful. I would consider going with a different (32 bit) processor, but the learning curve may be high for me, and the tools may be expensive. I once tried to get my Motorola MPC555 dev board going, but getting the open source tools to work for it was a total b**ch.

I'm a programmer by trade, but not by education. Therefore, I may be lacking some background that others like Tam and Chris have. However, I can code just fine. :)

I'm going to see if I can get the source code now. A group project would be cool, but the problem is that processor simulators are hard to come by, so everyone would probably need a development kit. The only simulator I know of is PCSpim, and it would be cool if anyone else here knows of others.

[Matz]

I can send you the zip file if you want. Not sure of which rev it is, but it will give you a decent start.

It's not too difficult when you think about it. the hardest part is writing the COM driver and figuring out how to write bits to the EPOM memory. The tricky part is mapping the ROM addresses to the timing, fuel, and other important tables that you are looking to manipulate. Aparently this is different for each auto supported and which CPU they implement on the ECU.

the rest (GUI and such) is academic if they have maintained a separation between the GUI and ROM burner portions.


It shouldn't be too bad. From what I understand, everything is metadata-driven so it should be a snap to figure out. What I envisioned doing is connecting my device once to a PC to load the metadata, and from that point on, my touchscreen would only work with my car. Depending on how large the metadata models are, I could also probably store multiple definitions in flash. This would probably require binarized metadata for space constraint reasons.

[chrisw]

I can send you the zip file if you want. Not sure of which rev it is, but it will give you a decent start.

It's not too difficult when you think about it. the hardest part is writing the COM driver and figuring out how to write bits to the EPOM memory. The tricky part is mapping the ROM addresses to the timing, fuel, and other important tables that you are looking to manipulate. Aparently this is different for each auto supported and which CPU they implement on the ECU.

the rest (GUI and such) is academic if they have maintained a separation between the GUI and ROM burner portions.


It shouldn't be too bad. From what I understand, everything is metadata-driven so it should be a snap to figure out. What I envisioned doing is connecting my device once to a PC to load the metadata, and from that point on, my touchscreen would only work with my car. Depending on how large the metadata models are, I could also probably store multiple definitions in flash. This would probably require binarized metadata for space constraint reasons.


yeah, that is pretty much what they have done. From my understanding, each metadata model represents the offsets into each ROM to locate the tables you want to change. I don't think storing multiple definitions would be nessesary unless you were maintaining a WRX and an EVO.

I am more interested in developing a datalogging component. I have a plan to turn my smart phone into a datalogger, all I need is a USB -> USB Mini adapter.... :lol: hell, I could even put precanned maps on to the phone and use the phone to switch maps without needing a laptop...

[Matz]

yeah, that is pretty much what they have done. From my understanding, each metadata model represents the offsets into each ROM to locate the tables you want to change. I don't think storing multiple definitions would be nessesary unless you were maintaining a WRX and an EVO.

I am more interested in developing a datalogging component. I have a plan to turn my smart phone into a datalogger, all I need is a USB -> USB Mini adapter.... :lol: hell, I could even put precanned maps on to the phone and use the phone to switch maps without needing a laptop...


Well, you actually need multiple metadata models, because there are more than one for the Evo8. I've seen multiple posts where ECUFlash isn't working for someone's Evo, so they basically have to send the ROM to Colby, and he whips up a new set of definitions.

The datalogging / switching sounds great. I was thinking about getting a Smartphone-based phone soon, and that would be cool if someone wrote an app for it -- especially someone that works for... Microsoft! (hint hint). As far as the datalogging goes, don't you want to wait until Colby figures out how to write the data to RAM somewhere?

EDIT -- ah, one more thing I forgot to ask you. Did you look at the source yet? The source I downloaded lacks two major pieces -- 1) the metadata schemas, and 2) the bitbanging code for the direct driver. This one uses the Windows API functions, namely ReadFile and WriteFile instead.

[earlyapex]

new version of EcuFlash out already...

http://www.openecu.org/index.php?title=EcuFlash

holy even more features ...

MAF Smoothing
MAF Scaling
MAF Size
MAF sensor filtering
Baro compensation
Air Temp compensation
Knock Sensor Filter Map 1 - 12
Min Temp for full boost Control
Immobilizer
etc etc

[ob4]

Hi Matz,

Did you figure out y the hi and low oct maps are the same? Also, exactly how many versions of the rom codes are out there for say an 03 evo8? I noticed that 05s are quite different from an 04 rom.

-ob4

[ace33joe]

Thank you for great tutorials! This tutorials should definitely be a sticky, and I hope admins will even open a separate forum for this OpenECU tool! Can't wait to have one myself!

[Matz]

Hi Matz,

Did you figure out y the hi and low oct maps are the same? Also, exactly how many versions of the rom codes are out there for say an 03 evo8? I noticed that 05s are quite different from an 04 rom.

-ob4


No idea. I am a total tuning noob. Check out the JM9693 ROM, as it looks more like what I would expect. :?:

[vtluu]

If I ever get my car back :roll: I'll post ROMs from both my ECUs (original '03 and my newer '05).

I'm pretty sure there's a way to connect the OpenPort directly to the ECU as well; WORKS does this with their reflashing tool if you just bring in the ECU (without the car) for flashing. I suspect we just need to figure out which wire from the diag & OBDII connectors go to which pins in the the ECU, and wire up a harness appropriately.

[zyounker]

I was planning on finding an x86 system to run this on, but i guess it really doesnt matter.. Why the choice to go to an embedded system? What is the rabbit 3K? is it an ARM, MIPS, or what?

I will be willing to share and show everything i put together, if anyone is interested. Maybe a group project would be good? I am not a programer by trade, so other people that are good programmers would be a good thing ;)


I picked the Rabbit3000 because I am familiar with it, and the core module is cheap in single quantities. I have used several other wimpy 8bit microcontrollers, but have used the Rabbit the most. It's a Z80 variant, but extremely powerful. I would consider going with a different (32 bit) processor, but the learning curve may be high for me, and the tools may be expensive. I once tried to get my Motorola MPC555 dev board going, but getting the open source tools to work for it was a total b**ch.

I'm a programmer by trade, but not by education. Therefore, I may be lacking some background that others like Tam and Chris have. However, I can code just fine. :)

I'm going to see if I can get the source code now. A group project would be cool, but the problem is that processor simulators are hard to come by, so everyone would probably need a development kit. The only simulator I know of is PCSpim, and it would be cool if anyone else here knows of others.



Well, if you need, i can setup all the tools for you..., Unfortunatly i havn't tried programing with linux libraries, so i don't know them yet. This seemed like a fun project to learn them.. obviously any help is appreciated, and i would love having a community project.. even if it is only a few of us.

Chrisw: please put the source up if you have it and it has a GPL License. If you want send it to [email protected]



thanks,
-Zach

[Matz]

I'm pretty sure there's a way to connect the OpenPort directly to the ECU as well; WORKS does this with their reflashing tool if you just bring in the ECU (without the car) for flashing. I suspect we just need to figure out which wire from the diag & OBDII connectors go to which pins in the the ECU, and wire up a harness appropriately.


Yeah, there's a way to do it. I'm going to be working on that soon, hopefully. I have an extra SAFC harness that I can hack apart to make it work.

[chrisw]

yeah, that is pretty much what they have done. From my understanding, each metadata model represents the offsets into each ROM to locate the tables you want to change. I don't think storing multiple definitions would be nessesary unless you were maintaining a WRX and an EVO.

I am more interested in developing a datalogging component. I have a plan to turn my smart phone into a datalogger, all I need is a USB -> USB Mini adapter.... :lol: hell, I could even put precanned maps on to the phone and use the phone to switch maps without needing a laptop...


Well, you actually need multiple metadata models, because there are more than one for the Evo8. I've seen multiple posts where ECUFlash isn't working for someone's Evo, so they basically have to send the ROM to Colby, and he whips up a new set of definitions.

The datalogging / switching sounds great. I was thinking about getting a Smartphone-based phone soon, and that would be cool if someone wrote an app for it -- especially someone that works for... Microsoft! (hint hint). As far as the datalogging goes, don't you want to wait until Colby figures out how to write the data to RAM somewhere?

EDIT -- ah, one more thing I forgot to ask you. Did you look at the source yet? The source I downloaded lacks two major pieces -- 1) the metadata schemas, and 2) the bitbanging code for the direct driver. This one uses the Windows API functions, namely ReadFile and WriteFile instead.


I am in the middle of yet-another-release-that-must-get-out-ASAP :rolleyes: so I have not had time to take a detailed look at the code. ReadFile and WriteFile are pretty much the way the code will be, that is a very common method of reading and writing to a COM port in win32.

I don't know if the source I have supports the EVO either. I think what has been published so far only supports the subarus.

[Matz]

I am in the middle of yet-another-release-that-must-get-out-ASAP :rolleyes: so I have not had time to take a detailed look at the code. ReadFile and WriteFile are pretty much the way the code will be, that is a very common method of reading and writing to a COM port in win32.

I don't know if the source I have supports the EVO either. I think what has been published so far only supports the subarus.


From what I understand, the most code should not have ReadFile / WriteFile, since he's directly twiddling bits now with the FTDI chip and not using it like a USB serial port. That's what I was trying to explain earlier.

[trinydex]

Andy,

I 100,000,00% agree with you. Unfortunatly other "tuners" do not.

A dynoflash tune was posted with OpenECU on evom.net and was deleted. Just be careful where you post them.

I will buy the poster a beer when I see him next though, it was interesting seeing that dynoflash tune. This poster was also a norcalevo member. ;)

power to the people.

with al it's probably more an issue of saving face.

[trinydex]

I am more interested in developing a datalogging component. I have a plan to turn my smart phone into a datalogger, all I need is a USB -> USB Mini adapter.... :lol: hell, I could even put precanned maps on to the phone and use the phone to switch maps without needing a laptop...
yes please

[trinydex]

is there any way that open ecu can handle real time tuning?

[vtluu]

is there any way that open ecu can handle real time tuning?

Don't think so, not without some major re-writing of the Evo's firmware (the actual program code).

In older ECUs it might have been possible with a ROM emulator but in the Evo 8 ECU the EEPROM isn't a socketed DIP chip you can replace with an emulator.

[zyounker]

is there any way that open ecu can handle real time tuning?

Don't think so, not without some major re-writing of the Evo's firmware (the actual program code).

In older ECUs it might have been possible with a ROM emulator but in the Evo 8 ECU the EEPROM isn't a socketed DIP chip you can replace with an emulator.



You can run a older DSM ecu and do this, well, reprogram them that is.. still not sure the ECU can handle realtime tuning.

[Matz]

is there any way that open ecu can handle real time tuning?

Don't think so, not without some major re-writing of the Evo's firmware (the actual program code).

In older ECUs it might have been possible with a ROM emulator but in the Evo 8 ECU the EEPROM isn't a socketed DIP chip you can replace with an emulator.


Not only is it not socketed, it's not even a separate chip, right? I thought the maps were all in the MCU itself. I looked at the board, and there's only one chip that could possibly be it. I couldn't find a datasheet on it, though, so I don't know what it does.

If it were possible to send a command (while the program is running) that could write data to an arbitrary memory location, perhaps it would be possible. Supposedly, Colby & co. will be working on a way to preserve the flash by allowing the ECU to read the maps from RAM. That would be sweet.

[chrisw]

is there any way that open ecu can handle real time tuning?

Don't think so, not without some major re-writing of the Evo's firmware (the actual program code).

In older ECUs it might have been possible with a ROM emulator but in the Evo 8 ECU the EEPROM isn't a socketed DIP chip you can replace with an emulator.


Not only is it not socketed, it's not even a separate chip, right? I thought the maps were all in the MCU itself. I looked at the board, and there's only one chip that could possibly be it. I couldn't find a datasheet on it, though, so I don't know what it does.

If it were possible to send a command (while the program is running) that could write data to an arbitrary memory location, perhaps it would be possible. Supposedly, Colby & co. will be working on a way to preserve the flash by allowing the ECU to read the maps from RAM. That would be sweet.


that would be nice, but I suspect that we will still need some external data logging device.

[Matz]

that would be nice, but I suspect that we will still need some external data logging device.


That also remains to be seen. Supposedly they may have a way of copying data from sensors into RAM locations, and then read these values at a much higher rate than OBD provides (10Hz for ALL sensors from what I've seen with my OBD->RS232 adapter). That would rock. But as earlyapex has said before, you can't beat ECU+ for datalogging because it has a dedicated knock processor.

[trinydex]

ecu+ still reads timing through the odb ii port thought right?

the thing is with a zeitronix, timing is the only thing that 'you' need to log. and that's all i want this cable to do, so i don't have to get a stinkin' pocket logger.

[drunk monkey]

question. since we are flashing the ecu now. would it be necessary to have a manual boost controller or an electronic one?

Carlo

[vtluu]

you can't beat ECU+ for datalogging because it has a dedicated knock processor.

From what I've seen, the ECU+'s knock processing is just a peak-hold function on the knock sensor signal.

I've heard the stock ECU actually processes knock using some considerably more complex function (hence the 12 knock filtering maps (or is it a 12x11x12 3D map?). Basically filter based on the engine block's natural frequency, looking for knock only in specific time windows (compression to ignition).

[earlyapex]

From what I've seen, the ECU+'s knock processing is just a peak-hold function on the knock sensor signal.

Yea but also remember it uses a seperate processor so it doesn't degrade the stock knock sensor readings.

So you have the ECU+ knock safeguards on top of the stock ECU knock safeguards..

[trinydex]

i have a new question, the stock ecu fuel tables are load based right? so there's no problems with something like a tps triggered operation where there is interpolation between hi throt and lo throt that may make some... "unsmoothness" right?

also... how does ecu+ and other such piggybacks deal with this? are they load based also?

[earlyapex]

also... how does ecu+ and other such piggybacks deal with this? are they load based also?


ECU+ is by MAF HZ and then TPS for WOT.

"The low, medium and high load points are based upon the input MAS air flow, and are fully configurable - you can select where the ECU+ switches from low to medium, and medium to high maps."

http://www.ecuplus.com/featmaps.htm

[chrisw]

also... how does ecu+ and other such piggybacks deal with this? are they load based also?


With the Xede, you have a 17x19 table with the load based off the MAF input. I think there is a way to adjust the load points, but with the granularity you have I don't see any reason why you need to.

[Matz]

Bringing this thread back from the dead... In case you didn't know, ECUFlash 1.28 is out, and it supports the IX.