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View Full Version : New toy (nav system)



vtluu
04-20-2004, 11:24 PM
I've been eyeing one of these for a couple months now and wanting a nav system for years. Today I finally ordered one:

http://www.avic-n1.com
http://pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_3151_64850099,00.html

This thing is way cool: it's an in-dash-LCD DVD-based navigation system, can play DVDs, can play MP3/WMA CDs (it offloads your current route into memory so you can eject the navigation DVD) and serve as a vehicle dynamics display (cornering speed, lateral/longitudinal g-forces). I can't wait to get it installed!

http://pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3442/64850099AVIC-N1_open_big.jpg

warpspeed
04-20-2004, 11:31 PM
Just out or curiousity. How much did it set you back? I am also shopping around for one. Got my eyes on the Clarion.

Black_EVO
04-20-2004, 11:37 PM
That's a very nice unit. Let me know how the sound quality is. I'm a huge Eclipse (fujitsu-ten) fan myself and have not been partial to pioneer. Eclipse also has a DVD nav system. I have not seen one that measures lat g's etc. Pretty cool :)

DB8GSR
04-20-2004, 11:37 PM
LoL!! I've been eye balling the same nav system as well for the past week and can't decide if I should get a nav or a set of rims. lmao!!

Good for you tam! :D

vtluu
04-20-2004, 11:39 PM
MSRP is $2k, got mine for $1585 + $30 shipping (minus 1% cash back from my credit card, so just under $1600 shipped)

Here's the Ebay link; still 12 available: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67772&item=3092892306&rd=1

warpspeed
04-20-2004, 11:53 PM
Cool. That's pretty cheap. I want to check it out at the next meet.

BUDLoNG
04-21-2004, 01:20 AM
does the face detatch? id hate to leave something worth that much in my ride....
BUDLoNG

vtluu
04-21-2004, 02:08 AM
Yes, the face detaches. I wonder how obvious the motorized LCD screen is, though. :?

SouthernCrane
04-21-2004, 07:18 AM
That thing looks nice. Take some pix when you have it in the car.

uhoh_evo
04-21-2004, 08:24 AM
what's the difference between a DVD based nav system as opposed to one that's not DVD based?

vtluu
04-21-2004, 09:01 AM
The navigation computer needs something to store all the map data it uses. For decent map data this is usually several gigabytes of data so the storage alternatives are DVD-ROM disc(s) or a hard drive. I don't know of any (off-the-shelf) nav system that uses a hard drive... Hard drives are obviously faster and more convenient (no DVD disc to use/lose), but I don't know how well it hold up under all those bumps and vibrations from the road--especially in a car with a stiff suspension like an Evo.

The upshot of using DVD is that the manufacturer can release an updated navigation data DVD so you can easily upgrade the nav system in the future.

warpspeed
04-21-2004, 10:04 AM
Yes, the face detaches. I wonder how obvious the motorized LCD screen is, though. :?
I believe one of the Fry's electronic has one on display. :) Not sure if it is the Palo Alto one or the San Jose one. :?

lambtron
04-21-2004, 11:25 AM
I like pioneer dvd/nav systems because the ebrake bypass is extremely easy. :)

vtluu
04-21-2004, 12:15 PM
I like pioneer dvd/nav systems because the ebrake bypass is extremely easy. :)
That's what I was hoping. Any tips, or will it be obvious when I look at it? :)

lambtron
04-21-2004, 12:20 PM
Yeah its real easy, there will be a green wire coming off the harness that you're supposed to hook up to the power side of the ebrake, all you have to do is ground that wire. :) It should be a very quick install, it's easy, especially on our cars.

vtluu
04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
Yeah its real easy, there will be a green wire coming off the harness that you're supposed to hook up to the power side of the ebrake, all you have to do is ground that wire. :) It should be a very quick install, it's easy, especially on our cars.
Cool, thanks! :bow: I think the slowest part of the install will be soldering the harness together (I insist on soldering instead of using the screw-on caps to join wires). I know that was the case when I installed the aftermarket stereo I have now.

lambtron
04-21-2004, 03:28 PM
yeah, soldering is the shit, the only thing I don't solder are gauges and such...well I solder to the power and ground, then cut those wires in half and install male/female connectors so I can quickly disconnect the gauges should I need to. lol

LEVIII
04-21-2004, 09:38 PM
Let me know if you run into any problems, I install for a living, and Ive already put a couple of these in.

vtluu
04-21-2004, 10:10 PM
Let me know if you run into any problems, I install for a living, and Ive already put a couple of these in.
Thanks! It's been shipped and is slowly on its way here via FedEx (I should have it about a week from now; I can't wait!). I've installed a couple aftermarket stereos now and I don't anticipate this one being much more complicated. I wish I could find a copy of the install instructions online so I could read up :read: while I'm waiting for it to arrive. I take it there's an external GPS antenna I'll have to route wiring for and place somewhere. Lambtron has already covered how to deal with the parking brake interlock. Anything else I should know?

lambtron
04-21-2004, 11:46 PM
Yes, don't get pulled over watching movies. It's not fun. haha

LEVIII
04-21-2004, 11:46 PM
not much, the antenna will work fine on your dash or rear deck lid. It needs a good veiw of the sky to triangulate the gps satallites, and it will come with a little metal plate to stick it to (its magnetic) the antenna should be mounted on metal to make accuracy better. You dont have to have it if you mount it on metal but I would suggest you use it if you mount it on the dash or any plastic. The only other thing is find a good place for the brain, and keep in mind it has to be flat and facing parallel with the car. You also need to find the speed sense and reverse wire, so it will know how fast your going and when your going backwards.

vtluu
04-22-2004, 12:48 AM
You also need to find the speed sense and reverse wire, so it will know how fast your going and when your going backwards.
Thanks for the info; I guess I'll do some research online and in the service manuals to find out where these are. That should keep me busy until it gets here. (Unless someone out there already knows the answer... ;))

vtluu
04-29-2004, 04:13 PM
Shipment finally came in yesterday and I spent about 5 hours installing it last night. (If I had to do it over again I could probably do it in half the time.) I had neither the camera (which needs to be fixed), time nor inclination to document everything and do a full write-up but here are a few installation notes:

- The "brain" or "hideaway unit" (as Pioneer calls it) is about the same size as a DIN unit, but half the height. The GPS antenna, speed sense, AM/FM antenna, and reverse signal wires connect to it. It connects to the "display" unit (the main DIN unit with the DVD drive and LCD screen) using a fairly beefy 30-wire cable.

- Although there was theoretically enough room to install the hideaway unit in the dash, for example behind with the lower DIN slot/cubbyhole is, there was nothing I could secure it to. (The unit contains the gyro/inertial sensors so it needs to be firmly attached.) I ended up installing it underneath the passenger seat, screwed down directly to the body by drilling 4 5/32" holes. Obviously I needed to remove the passenger seat to do this; the center console as well. I routed the wires from the center dash area down to the center console, right of the shifter, then down alongside the parking brake handle, under the sound insulation and out through a pre-existing hole underneat the passenger seat. I carefully zip-tied all the wires so as they could never come lose and get tangled in the shifter or parking brake mechanisms.

- The speed sense and reverse light wires were easy to find using the Service Manual diagrams, and I tapped them coming out of connector C-124 which is easily accessible with the center console out.

Here's the location of connector C-124:
http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/dash_connection.gif

Here's the splice point for the speed sense wire (black-yellow off C-124):
http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/speed_sense.gif

Here's the splice point for the reverse light wire (brown off C-124):
http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/reverse.gif

- I bypassed the parking brake interlock by connecting the green wire to ground, as suggested by lambtron (thanks again!).

- The Mitubishi factory bracket for mounting the DIN unit doesn't position the display unit quite right--either it's in too far by about 4mm (to be able to snap the trim ring on) or out about 10mm too far. I'll soon use a Dremel and/or drill to put new holes in the bracket.

- I put the GPS antenna up above the dash, just behind the windshield. There's a square-ish hole (with a plastic cover on it) right between two windshield defogger vents, right on the centerline of the car. The plastic cover is easily pried off and using an un-bent coathanger I was able pull the GPS antenna cable through this hole down to the DIN area (then down to the center console and to the hide-away unit).

Haven't had much time to play around with the system yet; I tried the navigation on the way to work this morning and it seems to work quite nicely. Briefly tried the vehicle dynamics display, though only long enough to confirm that it works. Haven't even tried CD/MP3/DVD playback yet... This thing's got so many features I need to RTFM first. ;)

lambtron
04-29-2004, 04:55 PM
PICS!!!!

LEVIII
04-29-2004, 09:17 PM
Just an FIY, your not suppose to put the trim around the face of the deck when you iso mount (screw to brackets that screw to car), it is only for when you use the sleeve.

vtluu
04-29-2004, 10:06 PM
Just an FIY, your not suppose to put the trim around the face of the deck when you iso mount (screw to brackets that screw to car), it is only for when you use the sleeve.
Ah, then I guess I'm all set! Thanks!

(Yes, I will have pics as soon as I get my (Nikon) camera working again and can take pictures in daylight. Promise! :))

evo_dadi
04-29-2004, 10:15 PM
[quote="LEVIII"]
(Yes, I will have pics as soon as I get my (Nikon) camera working again and can take pictures in daylight. Promise! :))

let me guess,you took the camera apart again and havent put it back together yet huh :wink:

vtluu
04-29-2004, 10:23 PM
let me guess,you took the camera apart again and havent put it back together yet huh :wink:
Close: I took the camera apart to clean the mode selector switch (camera is almost 4 years old so it was getting dirty and not working well), but when I put it back together a couple of buttons are jammed and so I can't turn the flash on/off or switch to Macro mode. :lol:

kimmievo
04-29-2004, 10:32 PM
Tam, I think I'll hire you for my next install! lol :)

brwnrice
04-29-2004, 10:33 PM
what happened to your motto (mod the driver before you mod the car) tam?

vtluu
04-29-2004, 10:47 PM
what happened to your motto (mod the driver before you mod the car) tam?
Well, given that after a decade of driving I still have absolutely no sense of direction, and that I ain't getting any younger and my mind isn't getting any sharper, I'm ready to give up on navigation and let technology come to my rescue. :lol:

brwnrice
04-30-2004, 01:56 AM
go to tj and you'll feel like your in your teens! :wink:

vtluu
06-03-2004, 03:28 PM
Just to follow-up on my experience with the nav system after having it for about a month:

I had two main "annoyances" with the system:
- When inserting an audio/MP3 CD, it would always ask me whether or not I wanted to start playing the disc, and I couldn't find out how to make it automatically start playing; thanks to methods4 I found out that I could indeed do this by accessing the system's settings menu with the CD player function turned off. Go figure. :?
- I couldn't find a way of searching for an intersection. It turns out that to do this, you do a "Search by Address" and don't enter a street number--then it will allow you to specify a cross street.

Overally I'm extremely happy with the nav system. I had it when I was in Atwater (for the SCCA National Tour autocross) and Lancaster (for Rim of the World Rally) and in both cases, the nav system proved invaluable for getting around town, finding a place to eat, driving to and from the hotel and event site(s), etc.

I found the long-distance routing algorithm a bit questionable at times. For example, to drive from my place (N San Jose) to Lancaster it wanted me to go north on 680, east over 580 and to southbound I5--a considerable detour compared to the 101-152-I5 route I chose instead.

In a few other cases the map data seems a bit out of date. For example, the system believes the 237E to 880N interchange is a cloverleaf whereas it's really a long left-turning ramp. In another case, it told us there was a Fatburger in Lancaster and we followed its directions to the location only to find nothing there--no trace that the restaurant had ever been there. Other than those few notable exceptions the AVIC-N1's map database has otherwise proven itself fairly accurate.

Today I received a new set of navigation DVDs from Pioneer, labeled version 1.1 (along with a visor-mounted CD holder). This was an unexpected and pleasant surprise, as I'd previously heard rumours that they'd be charging significant fees for updated navigation discs--hats off to Pioneer for their great customer support! :thumbsup:

I've heard (again from methods4) that they've tweaked the firmware a bit, fixed some routing issues, so I'm eager to try out the new firmware. So if you buy one of these units, be sure to register it.

methods4
06-03-2004, 04:11 PM
I have the same unit in my car for about 3 weeks and have had a few issues with it.

1) The system beep. You know how when you push on any button and it beeps. Well the system default, on mine anyways, was full blast. So I turn it down. System beep is at an acceptable level then. If I turn the car off and then back on, it goes back to the loudest setting even though it still says that it's on a low setting. Very annoying. My local Pioneer dealer says that the problem is common and there is new firmware coming out to fix this.

2) Just a couple of days ago it stopped playing DVDs. I put a DVD video in, and I can hear sound, but I get no picture. My screen doesn't go blank or anything, it just sits there with a background. It plays my navigation DVD and all other formats just fine. Just stopped working overnight.

3) Routing. Like vtluu stated in his post, sometimes this unit calculates some odd routes. It'll get you to your destination, but it isn't always optimal.

Hopefully all of these issues can be resolved with the firmware update. If not, they'll have to swap my unit out for another one.

I'm glad they are sending out updated navigation DVDs out to registered users for free. If you damage your originals, replacement navigation DVDs are $300. :shock:

So, all in all, if the unit was working as it should like vtluu's, then I would highly recommend it. It is the best bang for the work as far as in-dash DVD/Navigation/MP3 players go.

EVO GRIM
06-03-2004, 06:47 PM
Hows the on screen vehicle performance work?

vtluu
06-03-2004, 07:00 PM
Hows the on screen vehicle performance work?
Obviously unless you're on a fairly clear space like a skid pad, you're not going to be staring at the lateral-g meter when you're cornering hard. The lateral/longitudinal g and turn rate meters have peak-hold bars--but not the speedometer ("Honestly officer, I wasn't speeding!" "Yeah, then why does the peak hold on your speedometer read 90?" :)).

The speedometer seems to be based on actual ground speed measured by GPS and not by the speedometer speed pulse, because it reports a different speed than the stock speedo. In my case I think it's because my tires (245/40/17) have a smaller diameter than stock.

I think it's a bit over-sensitive in its lateral g measurements, because I was able to "peg" the lateral g's at +/- 1.25 on a canyon run. Granted, that may just be an "instantaneous" lateral g-force--obviously the car can't sustain that on a skidpad. I've not tried having it on during an autocross run but I'd definitely like to try recording the g meters sometime (you can configure it to also output through its aux video out, which you could then connect to a recording device).

vtluu
06-03-2004, 11:52 PM
1) The system beep. You know how when you push on any button and it beeps. Well the system default, on mine anyways, was full blast. So I turn it down. System beep is at an acceptable level then. If I turn the car off and then back on, it goes back to the loudest setting even though it still says that it's on a low setting.
I verified tonight that I could reproduce this bug with the original firmware, and that it's fixed with the new 1.1 firmware. :)

After a few minutes of poking around I haven't found any other differences with the version 1.1 firmware... Hopefully some of those quirky routing issues will be addressed (although I haven't found them to be a major problem).

Mo Evo
06-08-2004, 11:08 PM
Concord Mitsu is now offering this system in new Evo's as a dealer installed option. Way expensive, tho, at 3,995.00. Their cost is 2,100.00. I tinted up a black Evo last month with this system. The owner has a video production company, so he's installing a camera in the trunk key slot, just as soon as he finds a remote system to open the trunk. Took me a while to tint that car, what with a 'Matrix 2' DVD playing!!

vtluu
06-08-2004, 11:16 PM
$2100 eh? I paid $1600 shipped for mine (Ebay). If anybody wants to pay me $500 to install it for them, I'll happily do it. ;)

vtluu
07-10-2004, 04:49 PM
Finally got a new camera. Here are the long-overdue photos. Since the initial install I've moved the deck in by about half an inch by dremelling new holes for a couple screws in the factory brackets, and using the trim piece. Looks pretty decent IMO.

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/avicn1_04.sized.jpg

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/avicn1_06.sized.jpg

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/avicn1_07.sized.jpg

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album17/avicn1_08.sized.jpg

Full set of photos in my gallery. (http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/modules.php?set_albumName=album17&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

NgohOiNei
07-10-2004, 04:55 PM
I only use paper fold out maps.
And ask gas station attendants.

I'm an old school kinda gal.

LEVIII
08-17-2004, 09:50 PM
Just bought myself one of these and finished the install last night.

Anyone know if you can enter actual longitude and latitude coordinates?

JanSolo
08-17-2004, 11:41 PM
Is everyone in a dvd nav mood or something??

I am going to be receiving my Kenwood nav system as of Thursday.

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/content/product/image/large/im-kvt-815dvd-lrg-2004-kusa.jpg

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/content/product/image/large/im-kna-dv4100-lrg-2004-kusa.jpg

xchoirboy
08-18-2004, 06:25 AM
soo many toys not enough money ... :drool:

toasty
08-18-2004, 11:04 AM
I like toys

wilson1
09-11-2005, 11:41 AM
Anyone install this or any units with screen on the lower bin with the radio rrelocat kit?