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View Full Version : vishnu flash vs gruppe-s flash vs works flash



spnsprt
06-26-2006, 02:04 PM
so i've got about 500 to spend and so far all i have is a greddy ti cat back so i was thinking about a dp and either test pipe or high flow as well as a flash of some sort. So since i live in the bay area vishnu, gruppe-s, and works are all pretty close so does anyone know if any of these ecu retunes will be significantly different. Also test pipe or high flow?

any other suggestions?

KareBearPowa
06-26-2006, 02:16 PM
so i've got about 500 to spend and so far all i have is a greddy ti cat back so i was thinking about a dp and either test pipe or high flow as well as a flash of some sort. So since i live in the bay area vishnu, gruppe-s, and works are all pretty close so does anyone know if any of these ecu retunes will be significantly different. Also test pipe or high flow?



$500 is going to go fast with DP + HF or TP. Most flashes that are worth anything are $600+ or so because they are ECUtek based and the license is a set fee.

best thing with the flash, is do a search and see what kind of experience people have had with the flashes you are thinking about.

ez76
06-26-2006, 05:05 PM
Here's what I would do.

Go visit each tuner. Tell them you'd like your car to be faster, and invite them to come along with you on a test drive. Unlock the passenger side door of your car, and let them get in first out of courtesy.

This is the critical part:

As you walk around to the driver's side, a respectful tuner should unlock your door for you. If he or she does not, their flash is crap - NEXT!

mtsevovii
06-26-2006, 06:10 PM
power door locks biotch! hahaha :lol:

L84AD8
06-26-2006, 09:13 PM
Here's what I would do.

Go visit each tuner. Tell them you'd like your car to be faster, and invite them to come along with you on a test drive. Unlock the passenger side door of your car, and let them get in first out of courtesy.

This is the critical part:

As you walk around to the driver's side, a respectful tuner should unlock your door for you. If he or she does not, their flash is crap - NEXT!



:lol: Giving the tuner the girlfriend test!!! :lol: Nice way to do it! :wink:

Matz
06-26-2006, 11:14 PM
Something tells me that Al doesn't unlock the door for his customers.

lncrevoviii
06-26-2006, 11:53 PM
Here's what I would do.

Go visit each tuner. Tell them you'd like your car to be faster, and invite them to come along with you on a test drive. Unlock the passenger side door of your car, and let them get in first out of courtesy.

This is the critical part:

As you walk around to the driver's side, a respectful tuner should unlock your door for you. If he or she does not, their flash is crap - NEXT!



I just started LMFAO when I reached the half point. :lol:

ek9_evo9
06-27-2006, 09:08 AM
Here's what I would do.

Go visit each tuner. Tell them you'd like your car to be faster, and invite them to come along with you on a test drive. Unlock the passenger side door of your car, and let them get in first out of courtesy.

This is the critical part:

As you walk around to the driver's side, a respectful tuner should unlock your door for you. If he or she does not, their flash is crap - NEXT!




hahaha thats the funniest shiet ive read in a while.

PANGES
06-27-2006, 09:33 AM
I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 11:51 AM
I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.

If you went to WORKS you would be making considerably less power. :) Don't worry, you made the right decision.

PANGES
06-27-2006, 12:01 PM
I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.

If you went to WORKS you would be making considerably less power. :) Don't worry, you made the right decision.


I dont know if that's necessarily true. I raced an Evo 9 MR the other night with the same mods as me, TBE, drop in, tune, and the first run he was right on my rear bumper, the 2nd run I was only a car or two ahead. But our flagging was really bad and I believe at the time, he took his testpipe off and had a cat. But power wise, it seemed pretty even considering he took off the testpipe (assuming he's just as crappy of a driver as I am ;))

BigEd925
06-27-2006, 12:10 PM
I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.


I have a 9 as well and im thinkin bout my next tune. do you mind pming me on why you would of went with works instead??

PANGES
06-27-2006, 12:22 PM
I dont think it needs to be kept secrative. When you compare prices, WORKS is just cheaper and I always thought/was told their tunes were too conservative and did'nt make as much power, but this was never proven, since no one from WORKS really hopped onto a dyno. But judging from the race the other night, the WORKS tuned IX was more than capable to making the same amount of power and being just as fast as my Vishnu tuned IX that I paid $1000 for the tune while he paid way less than me, drove less, and probally had better customer service (not that Shiv's is'nt good, it's just it's easier getting ahold of WORKS). For the money I would've saved by going to WORKS, It would'nt bother me as much losing to a Vishnu tuned Evo IX by only 1 or 2 car lengths. I could easily make that distance up by buying an o2 housing and LICP with the money I would've saved.

PANGES
06-27-2006, 12:27 PM
BTW: I baselined 253awhp and in the end after a 2 hour tune,* made 292awhp. A 39whp gain. I'm sure WORKS is more than capable of making the same amount of power with their tune. Their's probally feels a little funner to drive too since the boost does'nt taper. My car is fun to drive till the boost tapers, then it's kinda of like "aww, my car's getting slower"

edit: I'm also running 23psi right now tapering to like 16psi. If I remember right, last time I talked to works, they said they would'nt raise the boost more than 20 or 21psi. So the other Evo ran less boost with no testpipe and still kept up. I think if he runs 23psi and puts the testpipe back on, we'll either be even or he'll be ahead. Of course, I dont know how much he's boosting, so that might be a factor too.

ek9_evo9
06-27-2006, 12:36 PM
BTW: I baselined 253awhp and in the end after a 2 hour tune, made 292awhp. A 39whp gain. I'm sure WORKS is more than capable of making the same amount of power with their tune. Their's probally feels a little funner to drive too since the boost does'nt taper. My car is fun to drive till the boost tapers, then it's kinda of like "aww, my car's getting slower"

edit: I'm also running 23psi right now tapering to like 16psi. If I remember right, last time I talked to works, they said they would'nt raise the boost more than 20 or 21psi. So the other Evo ran less boost with no testpipe and still kept up. I think if he runs 23psi and puts the testpipe back on, we'll either be even or he'll be ahead. Of course, I dont know how much he's boosting, so that might be a factor too.


brother told me paul at eip got something up his sleeve for tuning options, not sure if im supposed to say but you can pm reglaranang and he will tell you

KareBearPowa
06-27-2006, 12:44 PM
Basing the power of one tune to another tune off a street race that has about a million different out of control factors is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.

coco
06-27-2006, 12:44 PM
edit: I'm also running 23psi right now tapering to like 16psi. If I remember right, last time I talked to works, they said they would'nt raise the boost more than 20 or 21psi. So the other Evo ran less boost with no testpipe and still kept up. I think if he runs 23psi and puts the testpipe back on, we'll either be even or he'll be ahead. Of course, I dont know how much he's boosting, so that might be a factor too.


I have a 9 with a Works tune and I peak/spike to 21 and sustain 20 till redline. Just FYI

I dunno what I am putting down on a dyno though

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 12:51 PM
WORKS is just cheaper and I always thought/was told their tunes were too conservative and did'nt make as much power, but this was never proven, since no one from WORKS really hopped onto a dyno.
Many people with WORKS tunes have been on the dyno at the dyno days, and it is proven that they do indeed make less power. Search, I'm sure the post is still up around here somewhere.

ZK
06-27-2006, 01:21 PM
Go dynoflash!! Only $200. :)

wilson1
06-27-2006, 01:30 PM
Go dynoflash!! Only $200. :)


How does it feels in your car?

Lurk
06-27-2006, 02:04 PM
BTW: I baselined 253awhp and in the end after a 2 hour tune, made 292awhp. A 39whp gain. I'm sure WORKS is more than capable of making the same amount of power with their tune. Their's probally feels a little funner to drive too since the boost does'nt taper. My car is fun to drive till the boost tapers, then it's kinda of like "aww, my car's getting slower"

edit: I'm also running 23psi right now tapering to like 16psi. If I remember right, last time I talked to works, they said they would'nt raise the boost more than 20 or 21psi. So the other Evo ran less boost with no testpipe and still kept up. I think if he runs 23psi and puts the testpipe back on, we'll either be even or he'll be ahead. Of course, I dont know how much he's boosting, so that might be a factor too.


Maybe the guy is just a L337 driver. I also ran identical times at the track with a Stage II Vishnu EVO 8 with a GT3076. Does that mean my car is faster? No, just means I'm the L337 driver. Hahah jk. Too many factors are involved in heads up racing to tell which car is really faster.

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 02:10 PM
Go dynoflash!! Only $200. :)

+1 I have a dynoflash and made 253awhp at gruppe-s with just the flash, mbc and tbe. :)

whtrice
06-27-2006, 02:39 PM
Considerably...I don't think so..!! I have WORKS flash in my IX..A Vishnu car hasn't blown me into the weeds yet..lol



I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.

If you went to WORKS you would be making considerably less power. :) Don't worry, you made the right decision.

Lurk
06-27-2006, 02:54 PM
Whtrice, how much did your car put down on the dyno again?

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 03:02 PM
Considerably...I don't think so..!! I have WORKS flash in my IX..A Vishnu car hasn't blown me into the weeds yet..lol



I was flashed by Vishnu and it was'nt all too bad. I got better gas mileage (for what that's worth), and I'm pretty satisfied more or less. If I were to do the flash thing all over again, I would probally go to WORKS for my flash. It's cheaper than Vishnu, and their customer service is top notch. Plus if you're around the Bay Area, they're a hell of a lot closer.

If you went to WORKS you would be making considerably less power. :) Don't worry, you made the right decision.


I know, I'm exaggerating. :) At least that was the case with the 8's, from what I saw at the Gruppe-s dyno day.

whtrice
06-27-2006, 03:05 PM
330..On what it seems the "over" rated DB tune mustang dyno.. So I burn 30 BHP..That puts me around 300...Sounds fairly close to Vishnu stuff I have read on here. *Give or take a few bhps. Looking forward to taking the RS to the strip. My butt dyno says its a 12 sec car and I estimate 110 *trap speed from my G-TEK.. Will post the *E.T.'s when I gettem.Lurk you have posted 12's and the Garaged RS has too..Looking forward to smokin my clutch..lol

Whtrice, how much did your car put down on the dyno again?

Lurk
06-27-2006, 03:21 PM
330..On what it seems the "over" rated DB tune mustang dyno.. So I burn 30 BHP..That puts me around 300...Sounds fairly close to Vishnu stuff I have read on here. Give or take a few bhps. Looking forward to taking the RS to the strip. My butt dyno says its a 12 sec car and I estimate 110 trap speed from my G-TEK.. Will post the E.T.'s when I gettem.Lurk you have posted 12's and the Garaged RS has too..Looking forward to smokin my clutch..lol

Whtrice, how much did your car put down on the dyno again?



Yeah, take your car to the track and beat on her like she owes you money. You're not fast unless your clutch is smoking and glazed over. Hahah. Actually I haven't burned my clutch yet, but then again I don't do the "Garaged Performance launch". My 60ft was only 1.7

BigEd925
06-27-2006, 03:29 PM
330 on MD with just these mods?

WORKS HFC IP Exhale AB TB P2 Flash

ZK
06-27-2006, 03:31 PM
Go dynoflash!! Only $200. :)


How does it feels in your car?


I don't have it... I just threw out the idea since they were talking about cost.

KareBearPowa
06-27-2006, 03:32 PM
330 on MD with just these mods?

WORKS HFC IP Exhale AB TB P2 Flash


It's a high reading MD. More like Dynojet.

BigEd925
06-27-2006, 03:33 PM
would you give him 300 on say a Gruppe-s dyno??

KareBearPowa
06-27-2006, 03:33 PM
Go dynoflash!! Only $200. :)


How does it feels in your car?


I don't have it... I just threw out the idea since they were talking about cost.


If you saw the actual maps you would think otherwise. I will leave it at that since I'm not allowed to do "vendor bashing" anymore.

KareBearPowa
06-27-2006, 03:35 PM
would you give him 300 on say a Gruppe-s dyno??


No idea, haven't see someone run on both dynos so I have no clue. I would think less then that however since 8's without cams or tunes where doing 300whp on the DB dyno. :?

Liquid-R1
06-27-2006, 04:11 PM
I've posted my dyno here before... I'll post it again. I'm not all for any one vendor. This is FYI... Mike commented that my car put down good numbers for the mods I had. This is before my cams. I still haven't had a chance to re-dyno after. This is from a 2005 GSR. At the time of dyno, I had Works P2 flash, HKS RS Intake, Megan TBE with a Helix HFC. This was done at Gruppe-S' dyno...

http://home.comcast.net/~ktsau/Dyno2.jpg

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 04:23 PM
Looks good!

KareBearPowa
06-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Yea that looks like a normal good tune for those mods. I wonder why the 5200 timing drop / fuel enrichment is still there though.

whtrice
06-27-2006, 04:38 PM
My guess is 8's would be around 270(268.9) tbe..lol ..I go with EarlyApex's estimate(under 300) as 298.7..lol..What ever that is worth. Like I said I would burn 30 bhp on that "high" reading mustang dyno..I am happy with 300..or 298.7..lol...numbers..numbers.



would you give him 300 on say a Gruppe-s dyno??


No idea, haven't see someone run on both dynos so I have no clue. I would think less then that however since 8's without cams or tunes where doing 300whp on the DB dyno. :?

whtrice
06-27-2006, 04:58 PM
My chart has been here for all to see.
http://www.norcalevo.net/forum/index.php/topic,10067.75.html

I am the WW 06 RS Scott's Evo right below Jared's Blue Evo...The torque curve is like a table flat steady and the HP popped up + 70 over a stock tune IX. Vince's silver beauty.

Liquid-R1
06-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Yea that looks like a normal good tune for those mods. I wonder why the 5200 timing drop / fuel enrichment is still there though.


I'm not sure. Hell, I don't even know what I'm doing... I leave that to the experts like you :D

We'll see what happens when I get my new dyno reading...

tkeirin
06-27-2006, 05:16 PM
BTW: I baselined 253awhp and in the end after a 2 hour tune, made 292awhp. A 39whp gain. I'm sure WORKS is more than capable of making the same amount of power with their tune. Their's probally feels a little funner to drive too since the boost does'nt taper. My car is fun to drive till the boost tapers, then it's kinda of like "aww, my car's getting slower"

edit: I'm also running 23psi right now tapering to like 16psi. If I remember right, last time I talked to works, they said they would'nt raise the boost more than 20 or 21psi. So the other Evo ran less boost with no testpipe and still kept up. I think if he runs 23psi and puts the testpipe back on, we'll either be even or he'll be ahead. Of course, I dont know how much he's boosting, so that might be a factor too.


nice post. perhaps i should dyno my car w/the works setup i currently have....since i'm still curious.

BigEd925
06-27-2006, 08:30 PM
I spoke to works today and they said one customers evo 9 with TBE including their O2 housing, dyno'd at 280 with just the p2 and tbe, with dyno tuning they got it up to 294. This is all at full function. I dunno what type of dyno they have there.

dohcvtec
06-27-2006, 09:23 PM
Mustang, similar to gruppe-s

PANGES
06-28-2006, 02:08 AM
what do you mean by "tuning options"?

PANGES
06-28-2006, 02:14 AM
btw: has anyone put down a pre-order for those GSC 280 evo IX cams? I can't wait to try them out!

EVO GRIM
06-28-2006, 06:36 AM
Looks like we need another dyno day.

chrisw
06-28-2006, 07:45 AM
Basing the power of one tune to another tune off a street race that has about a million different out of control factors is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.


agreed. Besides, somewhere around here there are dyno charts showing the power loss by the WORKS tuned ECU. To be fair, I think the reason behind the lower numbers is that it's more like a generic mail in flash which can't be compared to a custom dyno tune session.

dohcvtec
06-28-2006, 09:13 AM
I dunno, my generic $200 mail in dynoflash beat out all the works flashed cars that day. :P

EFIxMR
06-28-2006, 11:11 AM
Also notable is that the most powerful BPU stock turbo EVO *8*'s on this board aren't using either guys reflash products.

EFIxMR
06-28-2006, 11:12 AM
If you guys want to do i dyno day, i can help organize something with paul or mike, depending on who's up for it. A dynoday would be fun!

MAB1025
06-28-2006, 11:31 AM
If you guys want to do i dyno day, i can help organize something with paul or mike, depending on who's up for it. A dynoday would be fun!


A dyno day would be fun.... Last time I dyno'd I laid down 286hp and 250 tq with a small boost leak. I'd be interested as to what I'd put down now since the leak is fixed. BTW: I have a Works flash.

PANGES
06-28-2006, 12:42 PM
If you guys want to do i dyno day, i can help organize something with paul or mike, depending on who's up for it. A dynoday would be fun!


I'm up for a dyno day if you guys are having one.

Liquid-R1
06-28-2006, 01:46 PM
Woo hoo. Dynoday!!! I'm down!