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Thread: heel-toe/rev-match

  1. #11

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    http://standardshift.com/videos.html

    Here are some videos of a guy with an in-car (Ooo.. BMW M5) camera talking, and showing how it can be done. You can keep an eye on his keys to see how hes doing with the shifting; ideally, there shouldn't be any movement at all in the keys when he shifts. Personally, I think the videos could be a little more compelling


    Something I've taken to doing is double clutching everything.. down-shifts and up-shifts. Yeah, very Fast and Furious of me, I know.. But what really got me started doing this was discovering that I could get 100% reliable shifts with no upsetting motions to the drivetrain, and that I was ultimately able to even shift faster and more 'aggressively' than if I didn't double clutch at all.. maybe its just my antiquated transmission and clutch from 1989 and the short-throw shifter thats given me this view.

    ...something else thats worth a look, is shifting without the clutch; up and down! I'll digress into a personal account: driving Bear Creek road off of HWY 17 with a little less than 2 hours of sleep the night before, coming up to a turn and completely subconsciously downshifting into 2nd gear without the clutch. Hard to convey the feeling that was; pulling off a clutch-less shift when there was a tree at the turn 'apex' and a rocky wall on the outside without making the arangements in my head prior... But apparently, my body decided it would be better off bracing itself with its left foot on the kick-plate rather than acuating the clutch.

  2. #12
    vtluu Guest

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    IMO, double-clutching is (literally) a waste of time if you have a car with synchros. (Working synchros that is; for a while I had to double-clutch to get myself to 5th gear without grinding, until the synchro got fixed.) You can do rev-matching both ways but generally it will make much more of a difference on the downshift.

    To quote Bryan Cohn from solo2.org, former Skip Barber instructor:

    Ok, I'd like to get to the bottom of this shifty subject:

    The double clutch method of shifting applies to no syncro crash box's, of which there are very few in the real world anymore. Big Trucks, tractors, etc. may still have them, but that's about it. We used to teach double clutch downshifting at Skippy Barber back when I taught there ('90 thru '95). In a race car with a dog ring box, it's is even more of a waste of time.

    And that, my friends is the heart of the matter:
    TIME.
    It takes a LOOOOOOOONG time to double clutch downshift, time that you don't have while racing, whatever the venue.

    Here is how we used to teach it;
    Foot off throttle, apply brakes, clutch in, move shift lever to neutral, with heel of foot blip throttle(while keeping the same pressure on the brake pedal, after all, we are trying to slow down!), move shift lever to desired gear, blip throttle again, release clutch pedal and finish braking/or accelerate thru corner/or spin into the weeds cause this is just to much to do in such a short *^%$#^& time!

    Wanna know what my drivers school instructor told me in 1985? Brakes are for stopping. Gas pedal and gears are for going fast. The round thing is for changing direction. Use them wisely!!!

    Here is how I shift the FF:
    Full throttle, mash the brakes, stuff it in the desired gear, turn the sterring wheel in the proper direction, stomp on throttle, and get the blinkin' hell on to the next turn!

    On the plus side, some lucky repair shop will be doing a clutch job on a Vibe at about 15,000 miles! Does PFM do those?

  3. #13

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    I could still consider double clutching valuable and practical for a car that is out of warranty, a foriegn car that doesn't belong to the driver, or for any sort of high-load/performance driving where there is no cash prize to be won... and the car needs to get back home before Monday
    But sure, which ever way the transmission is in gear as fast as possible is inherently the 'fastest'

  4. #14

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    sob sob sob...I'm not cool enough to get to do this whole heel-toe thing...MY FEET ARE TOO SMALL!!! It's so sad....oh well...time to get wider pedals I guess
    Just because you can beat me in the straights doesn't mean your faster!

  5. #15
    vtluu Guest

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    Quote Originally Posted by s13chica
    sob sob sob...I'm not cool enough to get to do this whole heel-toe thing...MY FEET ARE TOO SMALL!!! It's so sad....oh well...time to get wider pedals I guess
    ... or wider feet. People get surgery done for all kinds of reasons these days, so why not? :lol:

  6. #16

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    Quote Originally Posted by s13chica
    sob sob sob...I'm not cool enough to get to do this whole heel-toe thing...MY FEET ARE TOO SMALL!!! It's so sad....oh well...time to get wider pedals I guess
    sweetie, be happy you have small feet...cause if you had big feet we would all end up calling you BIGFOOT. haha, j/k

    look forward to seeing your "pink" sil80.
    Using No Way as Way, Having No Limitation as Limitation

  7. #17

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    double clutching = less wear & tear on the engine mount.

  8. #18

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    Double clutching is effective, but much slower on the track. To drive as fluently and efficiently as possible on the track, it is well worth the time to master "heel-toe". you find that you upset the chasis much less, are better able to balance the car before turning in upon entry. Awkward at first, but then becomes like any other kinetic, learned athletic excercise.


    Percy
    2 Wins, 2006 NASA Time Trials, Norcal (Evo)<br />1 win, 2006 NCRC TT Series, GT-1<br />6 Podiums, NASA TT TTA, 2007, 2 second place, 4 3rd place (Evo)

  9. Default heel-toe/rev-match

    i heel-toe all the times, it's just natural, and it sounds cool in the evo... double-clutch, i do it most of the time on the streets, easier on the synchros, almost always double-clutch if i ever have to downshift to 1st, like when im approaching a stop light that is red, but it turns green before I completely stop, and im slow enough to want 1st instead of 2nd... at the track, i hardly DC, but heel toe is a must... I know some people who's fast enough to DC at the track, it's kindda cool...
    2005 Evo MR

  10. #20

    Default heel-toe/rev-match

    I myself do the same while driving on the street, rev-matching and heel and toe..although I have not gone to the track yet, I believe practice makes perfect. when I do go to the track or autoX Im definitly inquiring with many of you to critique my technique...

    Emperor

    SpeedElement
    Gst
    OniSF
    DetailAddict

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