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Thread: heel toe downshifting

  1. #1

    Default heel toe downshifting

    more of a general question so mods if i posted in wrong section please move.

    i have been contemplating about learning heel toeing. I probably might not even take my evo to the track.

    question is, should i even bother to learn this technique to use on a daily basis? I know a buddy who tracks his datsun all the time and said he uses it on the street on a daily basis, is it even worth it to learn?

    Quote Originally Posted by "DnB_design"
    can't beat that price like a red-headed step child !
    <br /><br />[quote author=vtluu link=topic=10413.msg137940#msg137940 date=1148572576]<br /> &quot;What&#039;s the difference between a porcupine and a Bimmer?&quot; (A: &quot;A porcupine has pricks on the outside.&quot<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=9secMonster link=topic=15275.msg207158#msg207158 date=1168308351]<br />Spend it all on hookers and coke.<br />[/quote]

  2. #2

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Heel/toe downshifting is a very useful driving technique on the track and on the street. I'd learn it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    is it specifically used to rev match the engine during downshifting to avoid damaging the tranny?
    Quote Originally Posted by &quot;DnB_design&quot;
    can&#039;t beat that price like a red-headed step child !
    <br /><br />[quote author=vtluu link=topic=10413.msg137940#msg137940 date=1148572576]<br /> &quot;What&#039;s the difference between a porcupine and a Bimmer?&quot; (A: &quot;A porcupine has pricks on the outside.&quot<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=9secMonster link=topic=15275.msg207158#msg207158 date=1168308351]<br />Spend it all on hookers and coke.<br />[/quote]

  4. #4

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    I use it everyday. *Once you learn it, it is second nature. *Just like driving a manual transmission.

  5. #5

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Quote Originally Posted by ek9_evo9
    is it specifically used to rev match the engine during downshifting to avoid damaging the tranny?
    Yeah.* When you match the engine speed w/ the tranny input shaft speed, your synchros do less work when the shifter goes into gear. This should help your synchros last longer.

  6. #6
    vtluu Guest

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    At the track (or on your favourite on/off-ramp ) it's used to ensure that when you come out of a turn you're in a lower gear to help you accelerate out--which requires downshifting while braking for the turn. You heel-toe to avoid "jerking" the car while downshifting, braking and possibly turning at the same time. Generally while I don't drive that close to the limit on the street, sometimes conditions such as rain will make skills like heel-toe useful for keeping the car pointed straight while out on the road.

    On a track, at any given you're either accelerating, braking, or turning, or some combination of those. At no point should you be coasting and shifting. If for no other reason, learn to heel-toe on the street because if you ever go to the track, that's not the time to learn to heel-toe--you'll be far too busy concentrating on other things. I wouldn't advise learning to threshold-brake, follow a racing line, or hit your apexes on the street, so use your daily driving to learn what you can before you show up at the track.

  7. #7

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkSAE
    Quote Originally Posted by ek9_evo9
    is it specifically used to rev match the engine during downshifting to avoid damaging the tranny?
    Yeah.* When you match the engine speed w/ the tranny input shaft speed, your synchros do less work when the shifter goes into gear. This should help your synchros last longer.
    then wouldnt a quick blip of the throttle before shifting without having to break be the same thing?* from what i remember someone telling me, you blip the throttle while braking which i find pretty difficult to do while braking..

    Quote Originally Posted by vtluu
    At no point should you be coasting and shifting.
    does this go for street as well? because i coast a blip quickly before i downshift.
    Quote Originally Posted by &quot;DnB_design&quot;
    can&#039;t beat that price like a red-headed step child !
    <br /><br />[quote author=vtluu link=topic=10413.msg137940#msg137940 date=1148572576]<br /> &quot;What&#039;s the difference between a porcupine and a Bimmer?&quot; (A: &quot;A porcupine has pricks on the outside.&quot<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=9secMonster link=topic=15275.msg207158#msg207158 date=1168308351]<br />Spend it all on hookers and coke.<br />[/quote]

  8. #8

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Quote Originally Posted by ek9_evo9
    then wouldnt a quick blip of the throttle before shifting without having to break be the same thing? from what i remember someone telling me, you blip the throttle while braking which i find pretty difficult to do while braking..
    Yes, that effectively does the same thing. But there are some situations where you'll need to brake while downshifting and that's when heel/toe becomes useful. Like if some guy cuts you off on the freeway and you have to slam on the brakes. If you don't downshift while braking, you'll have to wait til you finish braking to downshift.

  9. #9
    vtluu Guest

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Quote Originally Posted by ek9_evo9
    then wouldnt a quick blip of the throttle before shifting without having to break be the same thing? from what i remember someone telling me, you blip the throttle while braking which i find pretty difficult to do while braking..
    The point of heel-toeing is to brake and downshift at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by vtluu
    At no point should you be coasting and shifting.
    does this go for street as well? because i coast a blip quickly before i downshift.
    Well you can do what you want on the street... If I'm coasting slowly towards, say, slow-moving traffic ahead and I don't need to brake, I'll blip the throttle as I downshift through the gears so that I'll already be in the right gear when traffic speed picks up again. If I'm in a hurry to get through a yellow left-turn signal, I'll go full-speed into the intersection, brake hard, heel-toe as I downshift, make the turn and accelerate back to the speed limit.

  10. #10

    Default Re: heel toe downshifting

    Quote Originally Posted by vtluu
    Quote Originally Posted by ek9_evo9
    then wouldnt a quick blip of the throttle before shifting without having to break be the same thing? from what i remember someone telling me, you blip the throttle while braking which i find pretty difficult to do while braking..
    The point of heel-toeing is to brake and downshift at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by vtluu
    At no point should you be coasting and shifting.
    does this go for street as well? because i coast a blip quickly before i downshift.
    Well you can do what you want on the street... If I'm coasting slowly towards, say, slow-moving traffic ahead and I don't need to brake, I'll blip the throttle as I downshift through the gears so that I'll already be in the right gear when traffic speed picks up again. If I'm in a hurry to get through a yellow left-turn signal, I'll go full-speed into the intersection, brake hard, heel-toe as I downshift, make the turn and accelerate back to the speed limit.
    thanks for the clarifications guys. i guess its time to learn, i just find it hard because of the technique, i guess my feet just arent used to going sideways to blip the throttle while braking.
    Quote Originally Posted by &quot;DnB_design&quot;
    can&#039;t beat that price like a red-headed step child !
    <br /><br />[quote author=vtluu link=topic=10413.msg137940#msg137940 date=1148572576]<br /> &quot;What&#039;s the difference between a porcupine and a Bimmer?&quot; (A: &quot;A porcupine has pricks on the outside.&quot<br />[/quote]<br /><br />[quote author=9secMonster link=topic=15275.msg207158#msg207158 date=1168308351]<br />Spend it all on hookers and coke.<br />[/quote]

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