countering brake fade

[Limeyboy]

Just wanted to get some opinions.

After some hard driving up the twisty mountain roads with some Ducattis, I decided to stop rather quicly at a vista point for a photo or two. The brakes faded badly and I overshot the vista point by a car length or two. They were hot and being used well in the turns, so fade is inevitable, but Im starting to think the Brembo's maybe cant handle my 'sunday driving'

What are your opinions for reducing the fade? I was thinking some Kevlar pads, but is it worth me uprating those (and perhaps the rotors too)? If so, any recommends? Budget is tight till next month :(

[Jay]

what fad is, is boiling your break fluid and all the water traped in your fluid turns to steam and creats air pockets..and air is easy to compress..thats why you have a soft brake pedal.
so get better fluid..better brake cooling and maybe use your brakes less.

[MarkSAE]

Are you still on the stock pads and brake fluid?

On my first track day, I went there w/ my 20k mile stock pads and fluid. My brakes were fading by the 2nd or 3rd hard lap.

On my second track day, I went back there w/ ATE Blue fluid and SS lines, while still on my stock pads. My brakes were much much better. I had a lot more confidence in them and only faded them near the end of my 25 minute sessions when I pushed my car harder. I believe I found the limit of the stock pads.

I would recommend you flushing the stock fluid out. The stock pads should be more than sufficient for some hard mountain driving.

[Limeyboy]

what fad is, is boiling your break fluid and all the water traped in your fluid turns to steam and creats air pockets..and air is easy to compress..thats why you have a soft brake pedal.
so get better fluid..better brake cooling and maybe use your brakes less.

Thanks for the tip - ill check out some new fluid .. any recommends? As for using the brakes less, well, im already using engine braking, and if its a choice between the middle pedal and the edge of a steep cliff..... 8)

[Limeyboy]

Are you still on the stock pads and brake fluid?

On my first track day, I went there w/ my 20k mile stock pads and fluid. My brakes were fading by the 2nd or 3rd hard lap.


It is indeed stock. Ill swap it out. Thanks!!

[Cameron@xperformance]

we have a special going on for upgrading brakes:

http://www.norcalevo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8398

[Limeyboy]

we have a special going on for upgrading brakes

Thanks Cameron. Lookes very reasonable . How long is the special offer running for?

[Jay]

some good tech on brake fluid boiling points.
http://www.corner-carvers.com/wiki/index.php?Brake%20fluid%20listing

[smack]

btw, a soft pedal is not fade. if you can pump the pedal and the brakes still bite, that's fluid.

brake fade is when the pedal stays firm (fluid is still in operating range) but the pad doesn't
grab the rotor the same due to overheating. meaning you press in the pedal with the same pressure but get less braking.

this is solved with pads that can handle a higher temperature range. the trade off is the higher you go the the less cold braking power you get. also noise usually increases as well.

like was said above, soft pedal is cured by just flushing the system and running a higher temp fluid like ap551 or motul600. a lot of people like ate super blue as well.

[GokuSSJ4]

btw, a soft pedal is not fade. if you can pump the pedal and the brakes still bite, that's fluid.

brake fade is when the pedal stays firm (fluid is still in operating range) but the pad doesn't
grab the rotor the same due to overheating. meaning you press in the pedal with the same pressure but get less braking.

this is solved with pads that can handle a higher temperature range. the trade off is the higher you go the the less cold braking power you get. also noise usually increases as well.

like was said above, soft pedal is cured by just flushing the system and running a higher temp fluid like ap551 or motul600. a lot of people like ate super blue as well.

+1
SS lines, better fluid like motul 600 and better pads will improve the cars braking abilities.
some pads to consider are street/track pad
ds2500
titan kais
pf 95

here is a place to purchase some pads
http://www.raceshopper.com/ferodo_compounds.shtml

[smack]

:oops: oh yeah, i forgot lines. that definitely helps keep the pedal feel constant.
and i have to second the ferodo 2500 recommendation. they work pretty well at the track
if you're not late braking everything. and they aren't too noisy either.

[ZK]

Keep in mind also that you have ABS... in any situation when you're pressing the pedal too hard and about to lock out the wheels - it won't let you. This is my first ABS equipped car and the effect is very unnerving if you've never experienced it. At times it feels like you aren't able to stop.

But yes, better brake fluid and pads will help. DS2500s are great for high performance street. The ATE fluid is probably as high as I'd go if you're not doing any track events. The more high temp stuff requires more frequent flushing.

[Cameron@xperformance]

Thanks Cameron. Lookes very reasonable . How long is the special offer running for?
for a little bit longer...

[Limeyboy]

Thanks for the replys!

Ok, going on a few things here, i can say definately its fade. the pedal firmness was the same, ABS was not kicking in (you can hear and feel it when it does), so most likely the rotors and pads were a bit too hot - I was trying to keep up with some ducattis in the mountains after all.

I think the consensus is some better pads and some fluid, I'll go for the ATE Blue hooked in with the DS2500's.. If that doesnt help me when im driving agressive, then I will think about the rotors and lines.

Thanks for the help !!

[earlyapex]

If you are just street driving I would just get some synthetic brake fluid like syntec. It's super super cheap compared to ATE blue and Motul and you don't have to change it as often.

If you see any track events in your future, then use the better fluid.