Dyno'd my Works modded Evo today in Sac...

[Evo442]

I have the P2 Flash, Exhale AB, and Aperture. Best dyno run was 227hp and 235 torque. 3 runs on S-Squared's new Mustang dyno in Sac.

Assuming a 22.5 % drivetrain loss, this is approx 294 hp at the crank and 303ft/lbs torque.

sound about right?

what do you guys think?

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album89/dyno.jpg

[evo_dadi]

is that dyno about the same as the dd that vishnu uses? im just wondering because i dynoed my car at vishnu and put out 225 and i have an RMR turboback/ebc/drop-in on my car with the stock cat on.the ebc was set i think to 19.8 during the run.

[EvoVIII]

man, i think thats low........ consider an ECU flash and some exhaust work...... and Mustang Dyno have like higher numbers then what Vishnu uses

[DB8GSR]

man, i think thats low........

I concur!!

[JanSolo]

Got a pic of your curve? I'd love to see how much usable power you have.

[Evo442]

Nate was saying that his dyno would be about 15hp less than Shiv's. Pic of curve to follow. I know its difficult to interpret numbers on different dyno's at different times, etc etc,

[Evo442]

If I added the Works downpipe and IP, I'd have their "303" package - 303 hp. If you assume a 22.5% drivetrain loss (a reasonable number from what I can tell), It would make the number's today right where it should be. I'll admit, however, that they were lower than what I was expecting...

[Evo442]

Wish I had done a baseline dyno also...

[GokuSSJ4]

yeah cause remember that some Evos based different in hp from 10-15 whp to 5whp . so if you consider which by most peeps dont . post your graph ...

[JanSolo]

Peak numbers are deceptive. Cuz if you only make peak horse power for that split second, but then drop power, then all that hp you are bragging about is useless.

[SouthernCrane]

Also, how was your A/F ratio?

[JanSolo]

Your dyno curve looks like you make power all the way to redline.

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album89/dyno.jpg

[Evo442]

Dont know A/F ratio.
Was not set up to do wideband O2 yet
By the amount of black smoke coming out the back, runs pretty rich!

I like the flatness of the graphs and the areas under the curves. The car feels great vs stock. Butt dyno would testify to good improvement with each mod. It was the first day that S-Squared was doing runs on their dyno. Just wanted to get some opinions, see if others with more experience thought that the dyno numbers matched up with my car and mods.

It certainly is interesting viewing the differences among different flashes. The shape of the curve with my graph certainly looks different from Vishnu's curves with Xflash.

[Shiv@Vishnu]

Your dyno curve looks like you make power all the way to redline.

http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album89/dyno.jpg

Only if the redline is set to 6400rpm. Check the X-axis. Peak power comes in at just around 6000rpm which is the same as the car we tested last week with similar mods. See http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73856

[Shiv@Vishnu]

Nate was saying that his dyno would be about 15hp less than Shiv's. Pic of curve to follow. I know its difficult to interpret numbers on different dyno's at different times, etc etc,

So a stock EVO would only make ~185whp on their dyno? All the Mustang Dynos I've used read somewhere between our Dyno and Dynojets. But they are very user-configurable so each shop can have it calibrated differently.

shiv

[SouthernCrane]

I wonder why they did stop your run at 6300-6400 RPM. Maybe your numbers would have been a bit higher if they took it to redline?

[Evo442]

Nate was saying that his dyno would be about 15hp less than Shiv's. Pic of curve to follow. I know its difficult to interpret numbers on different dyno's at different times, etc etc,

So a stock EVO would only make ~185whp on their dyno? All the Mustang Dynos I've used read somewhere between our Dyno and Dynojets. But they are very user-configurable so each shop can have it calibrated differently.

shiv

Unfortunately, they have never had a stock evo on their dyno. My evo was the first and it had some mods. Its too bad that its so difficult to compare dyno curves between different brands and shops etc.

What are the average numbers that you see for a stock evo on your dyno?

[Shiv@Vishnu]

Nate was saying that his dyno would be about 15hp less than Shiv's. Pic of curve to follow. I know its difficult to interpret numbers on different dyno's at different times, etc etc,

So a stock EVO would only make ~185whp on their dyno? All the Mustang Dynos I've used read somewhere between our Dyno and Dynojets. But they are very user-configurable so each shop can have it calibrated differently.

shiv

Unfortunately, they have never had a stock evo on their dyno. My evo was the first and it had some mods. Its too bad that its so difficult to compare dyno curves between different brands and shops etc.

What are the average numbers that you see for a stock evo on your dyno?

On 91 octane, the majority (75-80% I'd say) of EVOs average right around 195-205whp during their dyno pulls. Although we've had a few make as low as 180-185 and a few that made as high as 210-215whp. There's certainly a range but most stockers are right around 200whp.

BTW, I sent you a PM on your evom account :)

Cheers,
shiv

[Evo442]

I wonder why they did stop your run at 6300-6400 RPM. Maybe your numbers would have been a bit higher if they took it to redline?

Maybe. Some places shut it down when the curves start to fall off... It does look like I could have gotten a little more out of the HP though. I failed to tell them that actual redlike was closer to 7800 with the P2 Flash.

[Evo442]

On 91 octane, the majority (75-80% I'd say) of EVOs average right around 195-205whp during their dyno pulls. Although we've had a few make as low as 180-185 and a few that made as high as 210-215whp. There's certainly a range but most stockers are right around 200whp.

BTW, I sent you a PM on your evom account :)

Cheers,
shiv[/quote]

Wow, I didnt realize that the stock Evo's dyno'd so low on 91 octane. Useful info. Thanks. I also saw your PM and have replied. Thanks again!

In all fairness, it probably was not fair of me to repeat S-Squared's comments aoubt their dyno numbers being 15hp less than yours. It was an offhand comment that was made and I'm sure was not meant to be taken as gospel. We all know that the same car can get different dyno numbers on different dyno's on different days, and I think Nate was expecting his dyno numbers to be consistently lower than yours, given the same vehicles. Thats all

[Shiv@Vishnu]

On 91 octane, the majority (75-80% I'd say) of EVOs average right around 195-205whp during their dyno pulls. Although we've had a few make as low as 180-185 and a few that made as high as 210-215whp. There's certainly a range but most stockers are right around 200whp.

BTW, I sent you a PM on your evom account :)

Cheers,
shiv


Wow, I didnt realize that the stock Evo's dyno'd so low on 91 octane. Useful info. Thanks. I also saw your PM and have replied. Thanks again!

In all fairness, it probably was not fair of me to repeat S-Squared's comments aoubt their dyno numbers being 15hp less than yours. It was an offhand comment that was made and I'm sure was not meant to be taken as gospel. We all know that the same car can get different dyno numbers on different dyno's on different days, and I think Nate was expecting his dyno numbers to be consistently lower than yours, given the same vehicles. Thats all

No problem. Just to clarify, those stock baseline dyno numbers are from Dyno Dynamics dynos. Most stock EVOs on dynojets, on 91oct, should be right around 220-240whp, depending on which Dynojet (they seem to vary from shop to shop for some reason) they use. From my experience, Mustang Dyno's are usually calibrated to read somewhere in between. Again, this depends on the dyno settings. On the Mustang Dyno at Matrix Engineering (Portland, OR), our Stage 1 cars were putting down around 280-290whp. On our dyno, they would probably be around 255-265whp.

And, for some reason, the Mustang Dyno at FAME (Redmond, OR) reads approx 40whp higher than the one at Matrix. It seems nothing can be easy, eh? :lol:

Just my 2c,
Shiv

[Evo442]

Good to know. Thanks!

[methods4]

Hey Dyuyeno,

I was there that day also, one of the silver Evos that came early. (Evo7 tails, lowered) I saw your Evo, but didn't know which one was you otherwise I would've introduced myself. I had to cut out early. Maybe next time.

[Evo442]

Yeah - I should have gone over and said Hi - I was the short asian guy in the group over there! Next time!

[MitsuMan]

It may only be my opinion but (please post past experiences or usable info not slander )

evo_dadi

[ytsejam]

did the runs actually go up to redline or around 7500 rpm at least?

[Evo442]

No. They shut it down around 6800 or whatever the graph shows. I failed to mention that the car actually redlines around 7800 with the p2 flash. Was their first day with the dyno. Maybe I should ask for a couple of free pulls?

[TylerO@WORKS]

No. They shut it down around 6800 or whatever the graph shows. I failed to mention that the car actually redlines around 7800 with the p2 flash. Was their first day with the dyno. Maybe I should ask for a couple of free pulls?


go for it.

The torque curve looks good.

Remember, dynos are tuning tools ONLY. The numbers they put out vary so much, you can't compare different dynos graphs. Hell you can't even really compare pulls on the SAME dyno with 100% accuracy. To many variables.

It's all about the curves. :wink:

[webguy330i]

Hey ya'll, I had a dyno run on a similar dyno (it's the mustang MD500AWD SE). Numbers are very low compared to dynojet/etc. but you can still work with them.

See this thread:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=35596&page=10&pp=15

Also, dyuyeno, you should have done it all the way to the redline. Just FYI my runs were from ~45 - 110mph in 4th gear. That is damn close to redline, you could approach 115 with a 7800rpm limit.

Your weight is off as well, you need to take into account your own weight + gas, average seems to be aruond 3500 as the car itself is ~3280 stock anyhow. I'm guessing you made runs from above 50mph -> whatever hence why there's no hp@50 number?

[JanSolo]

Thanks for the link. Silver Surfer knows his stuff and this quote below is interesting.

"The funny thing about these active load bearing dynos is that you can get wildly different results just by pushing a few buttons. It's all a matter of what loading factors and ramp rates the operator selects. Since the operators can select whatever values they want, this makes comparing numbers with others extremely difficult.
All dynos can show varying results due to enviromental conditions and selected correction factors, but beyond that all inertia dynos (like Dyno jet) read about the same. Active load dynos like Mustang, Dyno Dynamics, etc, have these same variables plus the operator selectable load factors. These programable load factors alone can cause measurment variations well over 20%. Just look at my stock EVO base line done on the same type of Mustang dyno only with a different shop/operator.
So if you want some sort of reference, you need to compare yourself with other EVO's done at this particular chassis dyno, and hopfully the operator/programing was consistent."

[EvoVIII]

man, take ur car to shiv dyno and find out how many horses it makes if u so want to know if you car HP is too low or their dyno is so low~~

[webguy330i]

JanSolo, I agree, it is unfortunate that they don't have a standard set of variables for the Evo yet for the Mustang Dyno software either. In any case, I would hit up a dynojet dyno for bragging #'s, and a Mustang dyno for true tuning of your car in as much of a real-world-driving environment as a dyno can get.

[JanSolo]

JanSolo, I agree, it is unfortunate that they don't have a standard set of variables for the Evo yet for the Mustang Dyno software either. In any case, I would hit up a dynojet dyno for bragging #'s, and a Mustang dyno for true tuning of your car in as much of a real-world-driving environment as a dyno can get.

I competely agree. So when comparing one tune vs another tune, perhaps a neutral dyno like a Dynojet would be more appropriate. The ability to change the load on a load bearing dyno could easily be used as a marketing tool to fool prospective customers.

[webguy330i]

JanSolo, I agree, it is unfortunate that they don't have a standard set of variables for the Evo yet for the Mustang Dyno software either. In any case, I would hit up a dynojet dyno for bragging #'s, and a Mustang dyno for true tuning of your car in as much of a real-world-driving environment as a dyno can get.

I competely agree. So when comparing one tune vs another tune, perhaps a neutral dyno like a Dynojet would be more appropriate. The ability to change the load on a load bearing dyno could easily be used as a marketing tool to fool prospective customers.Precisely!! So glad someone else sees this.

[odyss3y]

using a dyno for bragging is stupid to begin with. dynos are for tuning (ie configuration/map testing, part design, etc). dynos are not for bragging for obvious reasons (ok, maybe only obvious to those who have their eyes open and brains working).

[vtluu]

using a dyno for bragging is stupid to begin with. dynos are for tuning (ie configuration/map testing, part design, etc). dynos are not for bragging for obvious reasons (ok, maybe only obvious to those who have their eyes open and brains working).
:werd:

[JanSolo]

Silver Surfer is actually full of enlightenment. I particularly liked these comments.

---

The advantage of the load bearing dyno is the ability to tune all of the part throttle settings, at various load points and RPM's. This takes a lot of time and effort, and most custom tune sessions do not encompass this type of tuning. Unfortunately every one is usually just concerned about WOT max power/acceleration. These other part throttle load points can be just as critical to performance and reliability, but they are seldom given the attention they deserve. These load bearing dynos can really help you get these other points dialed in, but you still need to fine tune them on the street, just like WOT. Trying to adjust these points on a pure inertia dyno is nearly impossible.

IMO this is the main reason for the added cost and complexity of a load bearing dyno. Not that they are necessarily more accurate at measuring WOT max acceleration WHP, IMO I don't think that they are. But as I said they have other advantages/features that justify there added cost and complexity.
That is why I think that a shop with one of these fancy load dynos that only ever uses it for WOT pulls, are truly under utilizing the capabilities of these wonderful tools. Not to mention they spent a lot of extra cash for no good reason.

I have spent hours tuning WOT on the Mustang and Dyno Jet, A/F ratios are great we are making good smooth power, good numbers, no knock, then we take it on the street . It feels wonderful, but after a few pulls it's knocking all over the place and we end up pulling timing and adding fuel here and there.
The problem is just that no matter how good a simulation it might be, it's still just a simulation, there is just no substitute for the real thing. You just can't drive a car on a chassis dyno like you do on the street. Load variations and operating conditions change so much in the real world, you just cannot simulate all those conditions on a chassis dyno, no matter how good it may be. Plus the air flow is completely different, that's important.
Why do you think all the car manufacturers run test mules with all sorts of telemetry equipment and then they run them in all sort of different environments, mountains, desert, snow, etc.
I have even found that you can have your car tuned perfectly for normal/aggressive street driving, then you go to a road course and things change. There are thermal dynamic/load conditions with road racing that you just rarely if ever see on a dyno or the street.
Now if you’re just doing mild upgrades and using the stock ECU, it should already be able to correct for a wide variety of conditions. Once you start modding to the point that you’re making thirty, forty percent more power and beyond, those stock ECU tuned corrections start to go out the window. This is why if your going this route people invests in ECU's with data logging and gauges to monitor vital engine parameters. The tuning process never really ends at this point. People planning to make significant power over stock understand all this, or they learn about it, usually the hard way.

[odyss3y]

nice write up...

[webguy330i]

SS has made some serious contributions to the evo community, I am a big fan of his input on topics like these.

[Evo442]

Great info and links. Thanks Webguy330i and SS. I've been very pleased with the results of my mods on the butt dyno. My ego wishes that my numbers looked better but I dont think that my dyno runs were optimal for a number of reasons.

[webguy330i]

My pleasure dude. I jumped right on this when I noticed you used the same kind of dyno, as they are pretty far and few between.

With any luck I will be joining norcalevo.net as a real norcal evo owner within a month or so!! :D

[evo_dadi]

kool the more the merrier :)

[SouthernCrane]

I've been very pleased with the results of my mods on the butt dyno. My ego wishes that my numbers looked better but I dont think that my dyno runs were optimal for a number of reasons.

I don't think you have anything to worry about because the run wasn't taken to the limit (75 or 7800), and you didn't have a baseline done before you put anything on the car so there is absolutely no basis for comparison on the dyno (and as we have learned from the above posts, the dyno always varies)..........also if the butt dyno can tell i figure it was be a pretty decent gain in power.

I have felt a P2 with catback (Jan's), and it felt as powerful as my car when I had (recently sold the XEDE) the Vishnu Stage 0.........with my stage 0 I had gained ~40WHP according to the dyno at Vishnu.

BTW, where will you be moving to Webguy330i?

[webguy330i]

SC, into the Bay area... interviewing this monday. :D I'm all kinds of stoked up... sorry for getting o/t in this thread.

[odyss3y]

WORKS EVO = Fast

Love the wastegate...

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee

[evo_dadi]

SC, into the Bay area... interviewing this monday. :D I'm all kinds of stoked up... sorry for getting o/t in this thread.

goodluck with the interview man,hope you get the job :)

[JanSolo]

WORKS EVO = Fast

Love the wastegate...

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee

Yes yes.. now sell the WRX and get an Evo.

[odyss3y]

WORKS EVO = Fast

Love the wastegate...

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee

Yes yes.. now sell the WRX and get an Evo.sell the wrx? Never... but i could go for another awd turbo 4 door....

[dmans_evo]

from what I heard from Nate his dyno will probably run the lowest out of everyones...So really 227 isnt all that bad..if you want to test your mods go to the track :) all track times are the same, while all dynos arent...