PDA

View Full Version : Dumb question: "unladen condition"?



Matz
08-13-2006, 08:01 PM
I cut holes in my trunk liner today (and did a horrible job, too) so I could install my new bling bling rear strut tower brace. I checked the FSM for the torque requirement, and also to see if there's anything special I should watch out for when putting in the bar. The FSM states that the bolt on the bottom of the strut should be tightened in the "unladen condition". I thought that it would be smart for me to have the strut in the unladen condition when tightening the top nuts for the strut bar. I assume that leaving the car on the ground is a loaded condition, and jacked all of the way up would allow the strut to come out... so apparently, the unladen condition is exactly the point before the tire leaves the ground when jacking up the car, right? :oops:

nebolic
08-13-2006, 08:10 PM
Definitions of unladen weight on the Web:

The weight of the trailer (or towing vehicle) less removable optional equipment and load
www.ntta.co.uk/law/glossary.htm

Empty weight of truck or trailer.
www.kmca.org/kmca/reference-terms-4.htm

or ULW: The weight of the caravan as it left the factory. This figure can have an error margin of + or - 3% on any individual caravan. Please remember to add additional weight to take into account the things YOU will put in the caravan.
www.dewscaravans.freeserve.co.uk/caravans/info.htm

google.

nebo

Matz
08-13-2006, 08:12 PM
google.


Haha, you think I would have posted that without googling or typing "dict unladen weight" in firefox? Maybe I just tried to think about it too much and came up with my idea of what unladen weight should be. :)

nebolic
08-13-2006, 08:25 PM
google.


Haha, you think I would have posted that without googling or typing "dict unladen weight" in firefox? Maybe I just tried to think about it too much and came up with my idea of what unladen weight should be. :)


don't know, after reading those definitions, i'm still up in the air. I would assume just nothing in the car, i.e junk in the trunk etc . . . and on it's four wheels on the ground.

nebo

Matz
08-13-2006, 08:33 PM
yeah, the only thing that bugs me is that unladen means unloaded, and the car sitting on the strut itself is a load! But when I've put in front strut braces in other cars, I've always left all four wheels on the ground, and have never had a problem.

KareBearPowa
08-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Why do you have to touch the bottom bolt on a strut to install a STB?

Matz
08-13-2006, 10:06 PM
Why do you have to touch the bottom bolt on a strut to install a STB?


You don't. It's just a question I came up with because I read the FSM and got curious about the top nuts.

MarkSAE
08-13-2006, 11:04 PM
As long as the suspension is loaded and the rear top hats are seated into the strut towers, you should be fine.* I think the intent of the FSM message was to tell you not to tighten the nuts to pull the struts into the chassis as it can possibly stretch and damage the top had studs.

BTW, I used a dremel to cut the trunk liner.* I used the sanding wheel to smooth the lines of the opening.* It got real messy.* That stuff doesn't cut very well.* Here's how my cutouts look.* I probably put a good few hours over a few months total into it.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/marksae/My%20Evo/Dsc05393.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/marksae/My%20Evo/Dsc05394.jpg

Matz
08-14-2006, 04:30 AM
As long as the suspension is loaded and the rear top hats are seated into the strut towers, you should be fine. I think the intent of the FSM message was to tell you not to tighten the nuts to pull the struts into the chassis as it can possibly stretch and damage the top had studs.

BTW, I used a dremel to cut the trunk liner. I used the sanding wheel to smooth the lines of the opening. It got real messy. That stuff doesn't cut very well. Here's how my cutouts look. I probably put a good few hours over a few months total into it.


It's always good to get a bunch of opinions. What you said makes total sense, as far as stretching the bolts goes.

Your job looks way better than mine. I would only recommend finding some kind of grommet to put in there. I'm hoping to hit Home Depot today to see if I can find something there. Hey Matt, if you're reading this thread, please let me know where you got yours. :)

Yeah, that stuff doesn't cut well. I used a razor blade and it was a total PITA. It wasn't quite sharp enough, so in a bunch of places I ended up cracking the liner. I tried my Xacto blade, but it was only good for doing some fine trimming. I didn't have a lot of time to do this, so I just hacked it up in about 30 minutes. Oh well, I guess this is the one installation where I wasn't super duper anal. :)

SJCoruja
08-14-2006, 07:34 AM
Hey Matt, if you're reading this thread, please let me know where you got yours. :)


Ask and ye shall receive...


http://my.prostreetonline.com/album/SJCoruja/Reartop.JPG


Mine is actually vacuum tubing. You just slice open one side and then guide it on over the edges you have cut. :D

Matz
08-14-2006, 09:50 AM
Great idea, Matt! Thanks!

KareBearPowa
08-14-2006, 10:07 AM
What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

MitsuMan
08-14-2006, 10:39 AM
that is a godd idea matt and I;m going to steal it!!!!!ha ha h a

gOt BoOsT
08-14-2006, 12:01 PM
pretty clean install...i like the vaccum line for the cover-up

ace33joe
08-14-2006, 11:29 PM
Another use of vacuum line! Clever idea!

ace33joe
08-14-2006, 11:37 PM
Actually, I saw that "unladen condition" in the service manual. I don't know how professionals at local shops do, but I was trying to install my Cusco Lower arm bar v.1 and I had to remove one of those bolts that needs to be torqued at "unladen condition". Well, I couldn't install it because I couldn't loosen the bolt with my longest wrench while Evo is on ramps, but I guess if I can loosen them, putting Evo on ramps should be enough to meet "unladen condition"?

BTW, any idea how I can remove those lower arm bolts that have 138 ft.lbs torque spec myself?? :) It is really hard to apply full force when you have only ramps. :)

Matz
08-15-2006, 07:33 AM
Actually, I saw that "unladen condition" in the service manual. I don't know how professionals at local shops do, but I was trying to install my Cusco Lower arm bar v.1 and I had to remove one of those bolts that needs to be torqued at "unladen condition". Well, I couldn't install it because I couldn't loosen the bolt with my longest wrench while Evo is on ramps, but I guess if I can loosen them, putting Evo on ramps should be enough to meet "unladen condition"?

BTW, any idea how I can remove those lower arm bolts that have 138 ft.lbs torque spec myself?? :) It is really hard to apply full force when you have only ramps. :)



I'll let the guys that have installed coilovers chime in. They must have removed that lower bolt to get the suspension bits installed.

vtluu
08-15-2006, 07:39 AM
BTW, any idea how I can remove those lower arm bolts that have 138 ft.lbs torque spec myself?? :) It is really hard to apply full force when you have only ramps. :)

A good impact wrench will do the trick. However, I don't have a good impact wrench. :lol: I just use a couple breaker bars--one to hold the bolt in place on one side, the other to break the nut loose. It's a bit easier to turn the nut rather than the bolt. Spray a bit of WD40 or PB-Blaster on there to loosen things up a bit. It's all about leverage--work smarter, not harder. ;)

Matz
08-15-2006, 07:50 AM
BTW, any idea how I can remove those lower arm bolts that have 138 ft.lbs torque spec myself?? :) It is really hard to apply full force when you have only ramps. :)

A good impact wrench will do the trick. However, I don't have a good impact wrench. :lol: I just use a couple breaker bars--one to hold the bolt in place on one side, the other to break the nut loose. It's a bit easier to turn the nut rather than the bolt. Spray a bit of WD40 or PB-Blaster on there to loosen things up a bit. It's all about leverage--work smarter, not harder. ;)


Sounds good, but then my next question is -- how do you torque it down properly? I guess 138 ft-lbs == very very very very tight?

EDIT - my bad, I didn't look at the FSM to see what bolt ace33joe was talking about. I had assumed it was the coil spring bolt on the lower arm, but it was probably one of the other two bolts. The one for suspension installations only needs to be torqued to 65 ft-lbs.

MarkSAE
08-15-2006, 08:08 AM
Unladen condition means the condition of the vehicle as it sits on the ground. So when the FSM recommends a bolt to be torqued in unladen condition, they want you to torque the bolt w/ the vehicle on the ground. The idea behind it is for the bolts to be tightened after you "load" the bushings up. If you tighten the bolts w/ the vehicle up in the air, the bushing will be in tension once it sits on the ground and may prematurely wear out. Since tightening suspension bolts w/ the vehicle sitting on the ground is kinda hard, I just use a scissor jack and compress the suspension before torqing everything.

Matz
08-15-2006, 08:14 AM
Unladen condition means the condition of the vehicle as it sits on the ground. So when the FSM recommends a bolt to be torqued in unladen condition, they want you to torque the bolt w/ the vehicle on the ground. The idea behind it is for the bolts to be tightened after you "load" the bushings up. If you tighten the bolts w/ the vehicle up in the air, the bushing will be in tension once it sits on the ground and may prematurely wear out. Since tightening suspension bolts w/ the vehicle sitting on the ground is kinda hard, I just use a scissor jack and compress the suspension before torqing everything.


So if you're putting on the left coilover, you jack up the right side to get clearance and then torque the bolt down?

MarkSAE
08-15-2006, 08:18 AM
Let me clarify.. w/ the car up on jackstands, you can place a scissor jack under the lower arm and compress the suspension before torqing the bolts down.

Matz
08-15-2006, 08:52 AM
Let me clarify.. w/ the car up on jackstands, you can place a scissor jack under the lower arm and compress the suspension before torqing the bolts down.


Thanks, that makes more sense now. :) My coworker said he does that and uses a floor jack to compress the suspension.

ace33joe
08-15-2006, 12:06 PM
Thanks for your advice, Tam, Dave and MarkSAE. I will try once more soon. :)

Matz
08-15-2006, 05:58 PM
Just installed my rear strut brace. Thank god for an installation that only takes a few minutes... long overdue.